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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
724
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Posted - 2013.08.08 10:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello everyone,
I would like some feedback.
Do you think black holes need change of effect? If yes then what new effects would you propose?
Thank you for your answers!
CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
7319
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adding a blue tag to this thread.
Help the CSM help CCP help you. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
955
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
I would tone down both the positive and negative effects and maybe add some sort of damage application bonus. E.g. increased optimal range and tracking for turrets and missiles.
More drastically, i would add an extra static to all black hole systems. Putting work in since 2010. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Suddenly Spaceships.
818
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
make it have 2x time dilation
IE everything happens at twice the speed |
Freddie Merrcury
Axiom Inc.
7
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
They absolutely need a change.
Reducing the inertia change to make navigation a bit less awkward would be nice.
As they are now, Black holes are the worst effect for both PvE and PvP.
PvE wise, they do nothing to make the PvE easier or faster.
From the PvP standpoint, the effect doesn't really allow any sort of special method of flying or fitting to take greater advantage of the effect. I been kicked out of better homes than this. |
Glasgow Dunlop
Gigaverse Strictly Unprofessional
82
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:make it have 2x time dilation
IE everything happens at twice the speed
seriously that would be a cool wormhole to live in...
that and make black hole effects random for dt to dt twitter: @glasgowdunlop-á GLASGOW MEET No.3 OCT 5th http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=229549&find=unread
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Godfrey Silvarna
Frozen Dawn Inc Arctic Light
84
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
How about a slight bonus to warp disruptor and scrambler strength and the efficiency of stasis webifiers but a penalty to ship velocity and weapon range? This would use the theme of the vicinity of black holes being hard to get out of. Though now that I think of it, any and all bonuses to webifiers are more than slightly risky so the downside to weapon systems would have tp be pretty dramatic to avoid obvious consequences with dreads.
This might make black holes a bit too good though. It is not a bad thing that there is a difference between the desirability of wormhole effects. Problem with black holes is not that they are bad, but that they are bad in a very uninteresting way. |
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
724
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:How about a slight bonus to warp disruptor and scrambler strength and the efficiency of stasis webifiers but a penalty to ship velocity and weapon range? This would use the theme of the vicinity of black holes being hard to get out of. Though now that I think of it, any and all bonuses to webifiers are more than slightly risky so the downside to weapon systems would have tp be pretty dramatic to avoid obvious consequences with dreads.
This might make black holes a bit too good though. It is not a bad thing that there is a difference between the desirability of wormhole effects. Problem with black holes is not that they are bad, but that they are bad in a very uninteresting way.
Anything to do with webs would help farming and dread blaping. I think we don't want dread blaping to be more effective than it is right now. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
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Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1426
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Why should blackholes be changed?
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormhole_environment_effects
The only people complaining about blackholes live in C5/6 because those penalties are rather harsh. The effects in lower classes are tenable. Any change to blackholes is a buff to income. Since higher classes tend to be extremely profitable, already, can I get a buff in C4 space income too? HTFU!...for the children! |
Bloemkoolsaus
Viperfleet Inc. Transmission Lost
83
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Glasgow Dunlop wrote:that and make black hole effects random for dt to dt
That would make things interesting. |
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SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
656
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Not a single WH effect offers a bonus to missiles.
So I would say, for a C6 BlackHole :
+100% Missile Explosion Velocity +100% Target Painter Efficiency (So that it's 2 times better, that's what I mean) +50% Missile Velocity
If it was just me, I would make it a place for Armor-Missile ships. Ie Sacrilege, HAM Legions, Torp-Typhoons and the like.
There are not many places where those are favored over Blaster-Prots.
Also, I'd like to attract your attention on an important fact (for me, at least) :
There are almost no battleships in wormholes.
What I mean is that yes, T3 > Battleship. That's ok, that's how it is, I'm not arguing about that. I'm arguing about the fact that Battleships really can't be used in wormholes except for a couple Bhaalgorns, Vindics and Armageddons.
The Mass Issue really is a massive issue when it comes to battleship usage. A single capital ship makes a massive change. The Battleship equivalent is just about 10 pointlessesly massive ships that will get blasted off the battlefield by dreads.
Please, seriously consider a special thing that would allow Battleship doctrines to have some breathing room. I mean, that would allow them to be flyable. Sure they'll still get stomped on by Dreads but at least you can use them if you want to.
Considering the fact that T1 battleships have been heavely rebalanced, it would be a shame if we couldn't use them :( |
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
724
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Why should blackholes be changed? http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormhole_environment_effects The only people complaining about blackholes live in C5/6 because those penalties are rather harsh. The effects in lower classes are tenable. Any change to blackholes is a buff to income. Since higher classes tend to be extremely profitable, already, can I get a buff in C4 space income too?
/me Not sure if troll or not CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
955
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
It's a troll chitsa... he answered his own question in the same sentence. Putting work in since 2010. |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise No Holes Barred
227
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
How bout making black holes _the_ place for small ships to fight.
That is give bonuses and penalties compared to size of ship. Hence huge tracking penalties to caps, less to bs etc., but almost none to frigs (maybe even bonus?)
This would make c5/6 systems where _not_ cap pilots could live and fights with out fearing the blob-blap-dreads.
Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me - |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1427
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:Why should blackholes be changed? http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormhole_environment_effectsThe only people complaining about blackholes live in C5/6 because those penalties are rather harsh. The effects in lower classes are tenable. Any change to blackholes is a buff to income. Since higher classes tend to be extremely profitable, already, can I get a buff in C4 space income too? /me Not sure if troll or not
Not trolling. The question was clear....why change blackhole effects? They're perfectly acceptable in lower class w-space. Everyone I've seen complain about them lives in higher class wh's. I think I know why. I just want others to state why. Shouldn't they state their case other than what I hear on comms time and time again..."OMG blackholes, I hate blackholes, can't align for sht, too much travel time, wah".
And the only reason to change them is to buff income afaik. So yeah, I think lower classes should get a buff as well since we don't get lucrative cap escalations from the same sites for 3 days. HTFU!...for the children! |
Sith1s Spectre
Sky Fighters Mass Overload
151
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Posted - 2013.08.08 11:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
People may troll me for it, but you could always keep the current status of them and the trade off is they spawn ice anoms (and will be the only to do so). Least the barges will be easy to gank in them and will give the Indy people something to be happy about CCP please consider hats as a clothing option for our spaceship barbies.-á
Artist impression of what this could potentially be http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t66/ROBC5Z06/sithsig_zps86971c83.jpg |
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
724
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sith1s Spectre wrote:People may troll me for it, but you could always keep the current status of them and the trade off is they spawn ice anoms (and will be the only to do so). Least the barges will be easy to gank in them and will give the Indy people something to be happy about
We are speaking about change of system effects not additional content. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Suddenly Spaceships.
819
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:People may troll me for it, but you could always keep the current status of them and the trade off is they spawn ice anoms (and will be the only to do so). Least the barges will be easy to gank in them and will give the Indy people something to be happy about We are speaking about change of system effects not additional content.
2x time dilation, you did it with alliance tourney you can do it with this :) |
corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
114
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
would there be anyway to give black holes more statics |
Sushi Nardieu
Bite Me inc Bitten.
149
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
I believe the criteria should be neutral effects. Neutral effects are systems like red giants. Another system effect like a wolf rayet or pulsar will just amplify some of the issues CCP are having difficulty dealing with. Those issues are things like links to capitals.
Some effects that I'd like to see in W-space with no particular emphasis on it being in one effect:
Speed Bonus: but not at an expense of anything else.
Local Rep Bonus: Without giving additional buffs like capacitor or resists.
Interdiction bubble size: Make bubbles huge in this system. HICs and DICs included. A downside might be increased cycle time or something like that. This should not affect anchored bubbles because it could get abused.
Battleship gun bonus: Wolf Rayets give bonus to small guns, why not encourage battleships again. They are cool The Guns of Knowledge-á |
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Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
8
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Quote:A sufficiently compact mass will deform spacetime to form a black hole, a region of spacetime from which nothing, not even light, can escape. Around a black hole there is a surface called an event horizon that marks the point of no return. Black Hole Class 1 Class 2 Class 3 Class 4 Class 5 Class 6 Inertia Multiplier 1.25 1.44 1.55 1.68 1.85 2.00 Max Range Multiplier 0.90 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.59 0.50 Falloff Modifier 0.90 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.59 0.50 Missile Velocity Multiplier 0.90 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.59 0.50 Maximum velocity multiplier 1.25 1.44 1.55 1.68 1.85 2.00 Control range multiplier 0.90 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.59 0.50
So, from the look of things the original intent was to support MWD/AB PvP at basically knife range, except that's not exactly uncommon anyway and the speed change actually throws a lot of things out of whack as far as speed tanking goes. It's fun to like, zoom around in a cov-ops your first trip into one but I can't imagine living in one.
I do like the theme though but the other sites have much more direct buffs to certain styles of play. Some more than others, certainly, but the black hole is more of a fun toy than somewhere you would want to live because of how it functions.
How about the following:
I'm going for a theme around missile based bonuses. They tend to not get a lot of love in PvP or elsewhere and I think it would be cool to have a wormhole where the Phoenix really shines as a dread of choice.
Missile velocity increase: Not too much, say 5% or even 2.5% per class level but enough to make the Tengu and other missile boats have some really scary damage projection. Right now I don't feel the current decrease adds much beyond a "no HAM Legion fleets here" sign and some annoyance. Besides it conflicts rather annoyingly with the velocity bonus to everything else.
Explosion Radius: Decreased by up to 50%. Potential problems with dread-blap but possibly mitigated by the missile travel time, giving enemies in PvP the chance to react to the incoming missiles and overheat hardeners and mitigate damage.
Tracking: Minus 5% per level. This basically says if you're bringing gun-boats into this hole you'd better not rely on tracking or bring tons of webs. Moros, go home you're drunk.
Falloff: I'm somewhat partial to the falloff penalty but that might be too much of a hit to Arties which would, at this point, be the least affected turret system. The idea here is that space is a little distorted so your guns are pretty hit or miss.
Warp Velocity: This is more of a "just for fun" thing that may end up having interesting consequences. Lets let warp zip you around up to 50% faster. Maybe this will let your bomber beat that Noctis back to the exit hole, maybe not.
Velocity Bonus: After some mulling I think I'd leave this but at max 50% effectiveness. Yes, it hurts missile damage but in PvE you can web everything down anyway and the explosion radius boost helps mitigate it, especially with larger missiles. It supports a kiting setup which range boosted missiles would be absolutely scary in or short range brawls with heavy use of Webs.
Overall I think this would help give Black Holes a unique play style, similar to the other wormholes and allow owners of a Black Hole to make use of some less utilized ships in defense of their home (and for making tons of ISK). |
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
724
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Quote:A sufficiently compact mass will deform spacetime to form a black hole, a region of spacetime from which nothing, not even light, can escape. Around a black hole there is a surface called an event horizon that marks the point of no return. Black Hole Class 1 Class 2 Class 3 Class 4 Class 5 Class 6 Inertia Multiplier 1.25 1.44 1.55 1.68 1.85 2.00 Max Range Multiplier 0.90 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.59 0.50 Falloff Modifier 0.90 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.59 0.50 Missile Velocity Multiplier 0.90 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.59 0.50 Maximum velocity multiplier 1.25 1.44 1.55 1.68 1.85 2.00 Control range multiplier 0.90 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.59 0.50 So, from the look of things the original intent was to support MWD/AB PvP at basically knife range, except that's not exactly uncommon anyway and the speed change actually throws a lot of things out of whack as far as speed tanking goes. It's fun to like, zoom around in a cov-ops your first trip into one but I can't imagine living in one. I do like the theme though but the other sites have much more direct buffs to certain styles of play. Some more than others, certainly, but the black hole is more of a fun toy than somewhere you would want to live because of how it functions.
How about the following: I'm going for a theme around missile based bonuses. They tend to not get a lot of love in PvP or elsewhere and I think it would be cool to have a wormhole where the Phoenix really shines as a dread of choice. Missile velocity increase: Not too much, say 5% or even 2.5% per class level but enough to make the Tengu and other missile boats have some really scary damage projection. Right now I don't feel the current decrease adds much beyond a "no HAM Legion fleets here" sign and some annoyance. Besides it conflicts rather annoyingly with the velocity bonus to everything else. Explosion Radius: Decreased by up to 50%. Potential problems with dread-blap but possibly mitigated by the missile travel time, giving enemies in PvP the chance to react to the incoming missiles and overheat hardeners and mitigate damage. Tracking: Minus 5% per level. This basically says if you're bringing gun-boats into this hole you'd better not rely on tracking or bring tons of webs. Moros, go home you're drunk. Falloff: I'm somewhat partial to the falloff penalty but that might be too much of a hit to Arties which would, at this point, be the least affected turret system. The idea here is that space is a little distorted so your guns are pretty hit or miss. Warp Velocity: This is more of a "just for fun" thing that may end up having interesting consequences. Lets let warp zip you around up to 50% faster. Maybe this will let your bomber beat that Noctis back to the exit hole, maybe not. Velocity Bonus: After some mulling I think I'd leave this but at max 50% effectiveness. Yes, it hurts missile damage but in PvE you can web everything down anyway and the explosion radius boost helps mitigate it, especially with larger missiles. It supports a kiting setup which range boosted missiles would be absolutely scary in or short range brawls with heavy use of Webs.
Overall I think this would help give Black Holes a unique play style, similar to the other wormholes and allow owners of a Black Hole to make use of some less utilized ships in defense of their home (and for making tons of ISK).
I need more posts like this one :)
CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
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Dgram Loop
Probe Patrol Polarized.
15
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Armor Resist: -100% Shield Resist: -100% Hull Resist: +100% Hull HP + 50% (And possibly) X-Large Weapon Damage: -100% or -500% even This example is for a C6, percentages should be lowered for lower classes of course.
Then all we need are t1/t2 cruisers and a carrier with remote hull repairer bonuses ;) |
Bern Rath
Sanctum Void
0
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
These may make for interesting conditions. The aim being to support ranged/kiting encounters and less in your face close range brawling.
Ship velocity +25%, +44%, +55%, +68%, +85%, +100%
Bomb velocity +25%, +44%, +55%, +68%, +85%, +100%
Missile velocity +5%, +10%, +15%, +20%, +25%
Energy Destabilization/Leech Effects -10%, -19%, -27%, -41%, -50%
Capacitor recharge -10%, -19%, -27%, -41%, -50%
ECM Strength -10%, -19%, -27%, -41%, -50%
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Axloth Okiah
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
147
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Keep the current negative effects but make all Black Holes spawn additional static (either of the same type as the system already has, random class, same class as is the system or whatever). Benefits would be: a) more connections in wspace, higher chance to run into someone b) ppl could make a choice between living under beneficial system effect (pulsar, WR, etc.) or live with **** effect but having the benefit and opportunity of having access to more systems and more content (pvp, pve or logistics).
And after all, it might even make some kind of scifi logic that black hole will attract more wormholes. W-Space Realtor |
Cipreh
Anomalous Existence
484
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Drop the bonuses/penalties, and make them more unique.
I feel that black holes should be made to reflect CCP's original goals for w-space, uninhabitable wild space, with increased risk, and increased rewards.
No moons. Uninhabitable for any extended length of time. More or better sites. (Someone mentioned ice in w-space?) Multiple (2+) Statics or increased chance of K162. (Maybe shorter timers on the statics?) =================================================
I have a much longer post about this, but I am at work at the moment and will finish it when I get home. Consider this space reserved.
Blog: http://lostwithoutlocal.blogspot.com Twitter: @Cipreh I am also available on Skype, details available upon request. Feel free to contact me via any of the above methods,or in-game. |
stup idity
43
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
I like the dual static idea from above very much.
Regarding effects:
proposal 1 - use what's already there and turn it around: - more lock range - faster missiles - more drone range - more fall-off - less speed
proposal 2 - move bonuses out of combat focus: - bonus to gas harvesting - bonus to mining - bonus to ore compression - more/other industry bonuses
proposal 3 - more war, less e-war: - bonus to sensor strength - bonus to scan resolution - bonus to warp bubbles - reduce efficieny of various e-war effects (painter, web, dampener, ecm)
How about messing with: - cloaking - scanning/d-scan - ship mass - spawn rate of sites ?
edit:
one more: - bonus to scanning - increase number of w-space connections - increase number of connections to other w-space systems that already have a connection to a black hole system significantly I am the Herald of all beings that are me. |
Elfred Gam'Havoc
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
While I haven't spent much time in W-space other than exploring my way through it to other parts of K-space...
Making Black Holes unique and more in line with the unknown could be really interesting.
I think mass penalties are obvious - what about drag towards the BH? Velocity bonus towards the center of the system, penalty heading out? Missiles getting bonuses vs non-self propelled weapons is also a good idea. Tracking with gravity bending trajectories should be incredibly bad! Light & medium drones get bonused for same reason, heavies and sentries penalized for their mass and inability to move quickly.
No planets, no moons, as they've already been dragged into oblivion. Maybe extra mining opportunities, belts & ice, as they've been pulled in system. Comet mining? Cracked/pulverized planetoids?
Extra connections makes sense, after all the immense gravity should have something to do with the time/space function of Wormholes.
I also like the idea of some sort of time dilation! |
Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
724
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Elfred Gam'Havoc wrote:While I haven't spent much time in W-space other than exploring my way through it to other parts of K-space...
Making Black Holes unique and more in line with the unknown could be really interesting.
I think mass penalties are obvious - what about drag towards the BH? Velocity bonus towards the center of the system, penalty heading out? Missiles getting bonuses vs non-self propelled weapons is also a good idea. Tracking with gravity bending trajectories should be incredibly bad! Light & medium drones get bonused for same reason, heavies and sentries penalized for their mass and inability to move quickly.
No planets, no moons, as they've already been dragged into oblivion. Maybe extra mining opportunities, belts & ice, as they've been pulled in system. Comet mining? Cracked/pulverized planetoids?
Extra connections makes sense, after all the immense gravity should have something to do with the time/space function of Wormholes.
I also like the idea of some sort of time dilation!
The effects have to be easy to understand and not require much dev time. Removing moons or adding drag might be a bit complicated. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
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Chitsa Jason
Infinity Explorers Exhale.
725
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Quote:proposal 2 - move bonuses out of combat focus: - bonus to gas harvesting - bonus to mining - bonus to ore compression - more/other industry bonuses
I do like this one as it would boost miner corps a bit considering grav site -> anomaly nerf.
Keep those suggestions coming though. The more the better. CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
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