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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Henry Cummings
Rapax.Legion
32
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Posted - 2014.03.16 22:50:00 -
[271] - Quote
Ab'del Abu wrote:I'd prefer something like this:
Ship velocity +10% +18% +22% +27% +34% +50% Inertia +10% +18% +22% +27% +34% +50% Repair amount +25% +44% +55% +68% +85% +100% Shield boost amount +25% +44% +55% +68% +85% +100% Shield transfer amount -10% -19% -27% -34% -41% -50% Remote repair amount -10% -19% -27% -34% -41% -50% Capacitor recharge +10% +18% +22% +27% +34% +50%
- I like the speed/inertia changes in black holes, as of right now they are simply too strong - there is no effect that promotes active boosting in pvp in particular - to counter local-rep-boost for pve-activities (cap escalations especially) capacitor needs to be nerfed
Edit: Yes, marauders would be even more overpowered in such a hole. But there is counters to everything, amirite ...
I'm liking this idea. CC's have no opposite hole. It would also make pve much easier for very small groups, and encourage daytripping. |
The Cue
Applied Agoraphobia
15
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Posted - 2014.03.16 23:34:00 -
[272] - Quote
Henry Cummings wrote:Ab'del Abu wrote:I'd prefer something like this:
Ship velocity +10% +18% +22% +27% +34% +50% Inertia +10% +18% +22% +27% +34% +50% Repair amount +25% +44% +55% +68% +85% +100% Shield boost amount +25% +44% +55% +68% +85% +100% Shield transfer amount -10% -19% -27% -34% -41% -50% Remote repair amount -10% -19% -27% -34% -41% -50% Capacitor recharge +10% +18% +22% +27% +34% +50%
- I like the speed/inertia changes in black holes, as of right now they are simply too strong - there is no effect that promotes active boosting in pvp in particular - to counter local-rep-boost for pve-activities (cap escalations especially) capacitor needs to be nerfed
Edit: Yes, marauders would be even more overpowered in such a hole. But there is counters to everything, amirite ... I'm liking this idea. CC's have no opposite hole. It would also make pve much easier for very small groups, and encourage daytripping. I don't know that they need the velocity inertial numbers, since Cataclysmics don't have anything else, but I agree, I'd love for this to be implemented. I know I've suggested that black holes become the opposite of a Cataclysmic, and I doubt I was the first either, so there's a lot of support behind this idea I suspect. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
238
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Posted - 2014.03.17 15:05:00 -
[273] - Quote
The Cue wrote: Ship velocity +10% +18% +22% +27% +34% +50% Inertia +10% +18% +22% +27% +34% +50% Repair amount +25% +44% +55% +68% +85% +100% Shield boost amount +25% +44% +55% +68% +85% +100% Shield transfer amount -10% -19% -27% -34% -41% -50% Remote repair amount -10% -19% -27% -34% -41% -50% Capacitor recharge +10% +18% +22% +27% +34% +50% .
So if you want to run cap escalations in these black holes your going to use mauraders? Local tanked T3s?
Current effects may limit people's willingness to live in these holes - but who's going to move into a hole where the bonuses actively discourage teamwork? |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
6
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Posted - 2014.03.17 17:27:00 -
[274] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:The Cue wrote: Ship velocity +10% +18% +22% +27% +34% +50% Inertia +10% +18% +22% +27% +34% +50% Repair amount +25% +44% +55% +68% +85% +100% Shield boost amount +25% +44% +55% +68% +85% +100% Shield transfer amount -10% -19% -27% -34% -41% -50% Remote repair amount -10% -19% -27% -34% -41% -50% Capacitor recharge +10% +18% +22% +27% +34% +50% .
So if you want to run cap escalations in these black holes your going to use mauraders? Local tanked T3s? Current effects may limit people's willingness to live in these holes - but who's going to move into a hole where the bonuses actively discourage teamwork?
You can still run capital escalations, but you'd need to adapt fittings and fleet setups indeed (e.g. less local reps, more cap ...). Remote reps are ~only~ halved in C6s, that is something that could be compensated ;) marauders would probably die though ...
I do see your point, but: as I see it, all effects promote certain flavors of gameplay while discouraging others. Above proposal is something that both current AND future black-hole-systen inhabitants could appreciate - at least, I believe so. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
238
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Posted - 2014.03.17 20:57:00 -
[275] - Quote
It promotes different playstyles.
I have to say: Living in W-space already means you are kinda a hermit. Having a C4 where you could easily solo (relatively) sites.. how's that promoting group play and pew (which are the main points we tend to make on the forum).
This effect would create the ultra hermit. The quintessential WH hermit crab. One guy, alts (for PI of course), and the ability to run sites solo with (more) ease.
Everything it does for daytrippers it doubles up on for the exact type of player the WH masses hate. The one guy that farms his hole all day long.
Of all the discussions (including those with black holes having an extra static) this is my least favorite suggestion. While it rewards day-trippers, it shines at making the best group content in eve drastically more difficult.
If ANY significant changes get made to black hole systems, corps that have invested heavily in those systems should get an option to have their junk pushed to a lowsec station. Some of these options will completely screw the playstyle of people already in blackholes. It would at least make that bitter pill a little easier to swallow. |
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
6
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Posted - 2014.03.18 10:19:00 -
[276] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:It promotes different playstyles.
I have to say: Living in W-space already means you are kinda a hermit. Having a C4 where you could easily solo (relatively) sites.. how's that promoting group play and pew (which are the main points we tend to make on the forum).
This effect would create the ultra hermit. The quintessential WH hermit crab. One guy, alts (for PI of course), and the ability to run sites solo with (more) ease.
Everything it does for daytrippers it doubles up on for the exact type of player the WH masses hate. The one guy that farms his hole all day long.
Of all the discussions (including those with black holes having an extra static) this is my least favorite suggestion. While it rewards day-trippers, it shines at making the best group content in eve drastically more difficult.
If ANY significant changes get made to black hole systems, corps that have invested heavily in those systems should get an option to have their junk pushed to a lowsec station. Some of these options will completely screw the playstyle of people already in blackholes. It would at least make that bitter pill a little easier to swallow.
The idea was that it would support solo pilots and micro-gangs that can't afford to bring extra logistics to pewpew, not running higher-class sites solo. My reasoning was further that the capacitor-nerf would limit pve-applicability... not sure how well that would work in light of cap boosters, I have to admit. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
598
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Posted - 2014.03.25 15:31:00 -
[277] - Quote
Moving Black Holes to a missile-based bonus set would allow CCP to test the viability of increased damage application on the Phoenix in a much more controlled setting. Free Ripley Weaver! |
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan The NME Alliance
48
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Posted - 2014.03.26 02:36:00 -
[278] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:The effects have to be easy to understand and not require much dev time. Removing moons or adding drag might be a bit complicated. For those not familiar with the movie The Final Countdown (1980), a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier enters a "storm-like vortex" that sends the carrier back in time to Dec 6, 1942 (1 day prior to Pearl Harbor).
A RNG-warp tunnel at the center of a Black Hole wormhole sends you on a 1-way trip to a distant location. Aside from allowing a capital-class ship to enter highsec, basically you warp to the sun. Once you land on grid with the black hole 'sun', randomly you may find a 1-way hole has spawned on grid with you. Enter and it spits you out the other side and closes behind you.
Black Hole Systems having different bonuses (missiles, ecm, etc) would also be good. Just like a bit of run-down real estate in your neighborhood, 'flip this house' by sending in some contractors with granite countertops, hardwood/stone flooring, you get the idea. Ice was shot down, but essentially black holes need something to attract residents. Otherwise, empty space just for moving through is what black holes will remain.
There are no mining barges/exhumers with armor bonuses, but if that is coming down the pike any time soon (TM), adding something for attracting armor-bonused mining ships would be a start.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
169
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Posted - 2014.03.26 15:51:00 -
[279] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Moving Black Holes to a missile-based bonus set would allow CCP to test the viability of increased damage application on the Phoenix in a much more controlled setting.
What?? So the only way they could test pheonix stuff is to change black holes on the live server?
You sir are either deviously brilliant... or whatever the opposite of that is. |
Tombomb13
PillowBrigade Inc Heiian Conglomerate
0
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Posted - 2014.03.27 12:48:00 -
[280] - Quote
TL/DR: I think the problem relates to the effects on velocity and inertia. Every other effect in wormhole space affects ship performance, but the affect both of these effects have in this wormhole, with the exception of affecting a ships tracking performance because the target is moving faster, are related to pilot skill.
Chitsa Jason wrote: The effects have to be easy to understand and not require much dev time. Removing moons or adding drag might be a bit complicated.
A blackhole is what? Since you want to mimic a blackhole you would probably want to do something with ship movement. The current effects see ships accelerate, which suggests they would be heading towards a black hole. Generally we don't want to get torn up by a black hole, so we would try to get away from it. You could reduce the velocity and inertia in the hole by the same amounts that you have increased it. Maybe you should be creating the entirely opposite effect.
What currently happens, correct me if I am wrong: Every fight occurs at a closer range but a faster pace. Damage is harder to apply to the faster moving targets regardless of tracking.
Here are some situations I could see occurring with the current effects, please correct me if they are wrong:
1- The dwellers of a black hole should have the opportunity to use the effects of the hole to their advantage. Let me give you an example of the problem I can see with the current set up. If I am in a sniping naga living in a C6 blackhole, my optimal range and fall off is bad so I need to be twice as close. I can move faster which you would think is an advantage. However, since everything else can move faster, I get chased by an interceptor, who catches me as fast as he would in known space since we both have the bonus to speed and velocity and inertia, everything evens out in the end so it technically makes no difference - apart from pilot skill utilising their manoeuvrability and mobility. However, effects are supposed to affect the ships performance and not the pilots, right?. Going back to the example, it also becomes twice as hard for me to hit the interceptor because he's moving twice as fast.
2- I'm living in a C6 in a superbly armour tanked legion with an AB and close range blasters. I can't catch anything and I am a brawler. My situation doesn't change outside of the wormhole because everyone gets the same velocity and inertia bonus. The exception once again is that I will find it harder to hit my target. It just all happens at a faster rate so it's again down to pilot skill. The effects should affect the ships performance, not the pilots skill, right? Someone can kite me in known space just as well as they can in the wormhole and it's harder for me to hit them.
Here are four considerations, maybe some of this would be useful to think about:
1 - Right now we can be really fast, but our range is shot. So this would be really slow with poor range. I don't know how complicated it would be to implement this idea: You can vary this by ship mass. Greater masses result in greater velocity penalties. Lighter ships have a reduced effect. It would at least promote the idea of having to fit a particular type of ship, in this case a nano fitted ship stands to gain more here. I think the idea is to give the dwellers the opportunity to create unique fits that work well in their home.
2- If this is too complicated and you want something simpler then why not leave the velocity as it is and reverse the inertia entirely? You could try the opposite, leaving the inertia untouched and reverse the velocity effects.
3 - Could you increase the current effects as you get closer to the black hole in the centre of the wormhole, and decrease them further away?
4 - Apply a mass effect, but only for one of inertia or velocity. You can't do it by ship class because it would somewhat nullify ship race differences which is against the general mechanics. As with known space, if a ship is heavier it is slower and takes longer to turn. Your heavier ship is going to find it harder to manoeuvre.
5- I think this was just mentioned above, you could make ships more self sufficient in the harsh environment of a blackhole by providing boosts to self repairing. I'm not sure if you'd increase it to 100% for a C6 but maybe?. Edit: Someone just mentioned it above, thanks!:
Repair amount +25% +44% +55% +68% +85% +100% Shield boost amount +25% +44% +55% +68% +85% +100% |
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
177
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Posted - 2014.03.27 13:03:00 -
[281] - Quote
Science is awesome. Black holes and the theories and all that stuff are also very interesting. For all you would be designers I'd just like to restate my high level objectives for any changes to black hole mechanics.
1) Most importantly that graphic has to be annimated and do something really special. quiver, pucker, contraction - it's got to have that 'must see' annimation.
2) It's a game and the whole crux of changing black hole systems is to make them more fun to play in. Keeping it toward the science of black holes is cool, but the fun to play in should be the over riding goal. I can't tell you what fun actually is, but I do know it when I see it.
My many thanks to you 'numbers guys' that are doing all this crunching - I'm just cautioning you to not be too geeky and forget the fun part while focusing on black hole theory and stuff.
For instance having an e-war randomizer effect would be fun, but have nothing to do with the science of black holes. Imagine activating your web and having it function like a radar ECM module or your tracking disruptor behaving like a sensor damp. Random e-war swappage would be great fun. A nightmare to deal with in real time, but hillarious in the post fight discussions.
Objective one must be accomplished for this to be a success and objective two needs the proper amount of consideration also. |
Tombomb13
PillowBrigade Inc Heiian Conglomerate
0
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Posted - 2014.03.27 13:09:00 -
[282] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote: For instance having an e-war randomizer effect would be fun
It could be fun to test on the test server, however Pilots want to be rewarded for fitting their ship correctly. If an EFT warrior spends an hour fitting a ship only for the key EWAR related module to turn into something entirely differently, rendering their entire fit useless, then they would never go into that wormhole. As you said it's about getting people to live there, this would probably discourage that. I like your idea about make the black hold at the centre of the wormhole look nice :)
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
177
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Posted - 2014.03.27 15:48:00 -
[283] - Quote
1 - Your condescension is laughable - you speak so freely of what others want, don't want, would like and wouldn't - get over yourself
2 - Your comprehension is laughable - I was kidding, putting something that was over the top to highlight that fun effects are the order of the day for black holes - you taking it literally as an idea for changing the game is kind of scary - you can't discern my meaning and intent yet are comfortable espousing what others would like and dislike. That's a dangerous combination.
3 - (Phil Collins flashback here) You never really knew me at all - I don't have EFT (Bane will verify) AND I don't come up with actual constructive ideas on the forums (ideals for sure, but ideas to change the game.... too much work).
4 - I don't like EFT warriors, so if this effect would ruin their sterile pristine world... well now I'm all for it. It's a game, so more playing and less theory crafting on a third party program is what I say. "Who's with me!?!" (that's Bill Murray in any number of motivational moments in any number of films he's done)
Lighten up Mr. Tombomb... lighten up |
Tombomb13
PillowBrigade Inc Heiian Conglomerate
0
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Posted - 2014.03.27 18:54:00 -
[284] - Quote
Woah, take it easy there Ms. Lost I must have hit a nerve, take a step back from the screen maybe? :-)
At what point was I supposed to know you were only kidding. I don't claim to know what everyone wants, I'm only going off of people that I know - if I really need to state that so people don't get offended as you appear to have been then so be it. On EFT, because you seem to dislike it, I don't think I know any pilot that's not used it at least once?. Maybe using the term "EFT warriors" goes too far. It's laughable that you feel I need to know you and that you expect me to know your post is a joke.
I'll know from now on that you make these jokes if I happen to come across another post. I don't know you of course but that's not the point of it really, am I expected to know you?. Maybe you are a nice person, but the fact that you make a bunch of assumptions about me immediately after you picked out what you have wrongly translated as my attempts to make peoples minds up for them, is kind of contradictory.
Now that all of that is out of the way, Phil Colins can be cool, especially combined with the Cadbury's monkey drummer TV advert , I don't know Bane. I saw Bill Murray once, he was wearing a bright orange outfit playing golf in the town I study in, did I cover everything? :-)
If you are going to reply to this comment then that's cool. If I've pissed you off some more then I can't help that, it's not what I'm trying to do. Can't we all just get along? We both like spaceships, right?
Back to black holes to make this post relevant to the thread, another thought - If the current POS mechanics and corporation/alliance GUI panels for roles/admin were revamped - as many people have been crying out for - then it wormhole life could suddenly become more tempting for a lot of pilots to live in. If the wormhole population increases then black holes could become more inhabited as they are, even with minor tweaks. If they are the most undesirable of all wormhole types at this point, then you'd be less likely to be evicted, so that would be one advantage. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
269
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:12:00 -
[285] - Quote
People get evicted more because of some stupid comment than they do because someone actually wants the hole. |
Tombomb13
PillowBrigade Inc Heiian Conglomerate
0
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:13:00 -
[286] - Quote
Noxisia Arkana wrote:People get evicted more because of some stupid comment than they do because someone actually wants the hole. I can't argue with that! |
Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
156
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Posted - 2014.03.27 22:46:00 -
[287] - Quote
Only ships of a certain size are allowed in the system.
FW favors small things, so have Black Hole systems favor big things.
Big enough black hole, only Battleships can enter. |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
270
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Posted - 2014.03.28 13:17:00 -
[288] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Only ships of a certain size are allowed in the system.
FW favors small things, so have Black Hole systems favor big things.
Big enough black hole, only Battleships can enter.
Interesting idea, but it'd be like a roadblock if you were trying to scan your way to HS in a covops. Scan down sig, attempt to jump through... get rejected. It'd also make those holes ludicrously safe as most roving PVP is done in cruiser (some BC) sized ships. Thus you could pretty much sit with your statics open and do whatever you wanted.
Not to mention, you could probably build cruisers/frigs in the wh, so you'd be the only one on the field with falcons, jamgus, guardians... etc. |
urfkd
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2
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Posted - 2014.03.29 05:37:00 -
[289] - Quote
Remove all the moons and increase the static count tenfold. Make them random.
Adjust the statics to a 6h/lifetime + variable mass allowance depending on the static's class.
Put one NPC station randomly with expensive services in it (Lore opportunities!) and allow markets to build up.
That would make them good PVP hubs, pave the way for more content, increase wormhole's popularity without killing k-space and increase the risk of living in w-space.
Now, when that stargate building thing comes along, why not allowing the player to build a stargate on top of a wormhole to perma-link his system with this hub? |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Illusion of Solitude
692
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Posted - 2014.03.31 11:59:00 -
[290] - Quote
Chitsa Jason wrote:Hello everyone,
I would like some feedback.
Do you think black holes need change of effect? If yes then what new effects would you propose?
Thank you for your answers!
Remove moons and otherwise Leave effects as they are but let them spawn 10 -15 additional wandering wormholes into other systems and also into k space that automatically activate/open without being warped to.
Turn them into wormhole superhubs
Good for travel, good for finding fights but very difficult to fight in leading to tracking and hunting mechanics taking priority, should liven things up nicely.
Edit I did not see ^^^ before posting, saying similar thing, seems more than a few thinking along the same lines. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
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Dieter Rams
The Nommo Insurance Fraud.
61
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Posted - 2014.04.10 21:34:00 -
[291] - Quote
Make all holes connecting to black holes spawn as EOL. |
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