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Vrenth
Pathfinders. The Marmite Collective
27
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Posted - 2013.08.08 20:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Am I the only one who thinks that the volume and content of the changes being made in 1.1 are more impacting to the game than the initial expansion was?
Compared to the awesome changes coming up soon, those exploration and graphical changes were moot. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
849
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Posted - 2013.08.08 20:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Good point.
CCP, I demand you delay Odyssey 1.1 until December and give it a proper expansion name |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
1746
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Posted - 2013.08.08 20:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Agreed, but don't tell CCP. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
259
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Posted - 2013.08.08 20:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Eh.
Doesn't much matter to me, so long as they don't bungle the realease or content contained therein. I suppose, so long as it's along the same 'theme' as Odyssey, they ought keep the same general label. |
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1127
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Posted - 2013.08.08 21:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Looking forward to it - do we have a specific date yet, apart from 'August'? |
Alex Etolle
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.08.08 23:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
whats included in this update? i don't know where to find the notes. |
45thtiger 0109
SYNDROME OF A DOWN The Mockers AO
10
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Posted - 2013.08.09 00:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Solhild wrote:Looking forward to it - do we have a specific date yet, apart from 'August'?
When in August ?
Could be early September no one knows when except CCP
The are GOD when it comes to EvE I am not a CCP employee-ájust having a say in the world of EvE Online
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Baikur
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.08.09 00:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alex Etolle wrote:whats included in this update? i don't know where to find the notes.
Check the features and ideas forum |
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Republic University Minmatar Republic
427
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Posted - 2013.08.09 00:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Odyssey 1.1 will never be deployed.
It would buff the Cerb and Eagle, and we all know that only expansions that nerf caldari ships are released. |
Invisusira
The Rising Stars The Initiative.
186
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Posted - 2013.08.09 00:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
"why are clouds still in the game" Core Skills | EVE Music | Internet Spaceship Killboard Link |
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Hiyora Akachi
UNITAS. Silent Infinity
195
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Posted - 2013.08.09 04:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Solhild wrote:Looking forward to it - do we have a specific date yet, apart from 'August'?
Wait, we got August as a release date? When the hell did that happen? |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3252
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Posted - 2013.08.09 08:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
One thing that sticks out that absolutely no development besides ship balancing seems to take place.
CCP is Fozzie and Rise these days.
Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude. |
Chamile Eonic
The Church of MDAMC
34
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Posted - 2013.08.09 09:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Roime wrote:One thing that sticks out that absolutely no development besides ship balancing seems to take place.
CCP is Fozzie and Rise these days.
I've noticed this. When you look at the number of people working at CCP (at least those meant to be working on eve) it seems like 90% of the changes are coming from about 5 people. I know others are involved in changing the value of XXX in the database but even so.
Some ship balancing and a few reskins seem to be a good chunk of every expansion and patch. Imagine if CCP Rise and Fozzie decided to get drunk and lazy for awhile. Eve development would stop to a tiny trickle.
Hilmar must be thanking God for those two. Without them his company would have ground to a halt aaaaaaaggggesss ago |
Aeana K
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
83
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Posted - 2013.08.09 10:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Roime wrote:One thing that sticks out that absolutely no development besides ship balancing seems to take place.
CCP is Fozzie and Rise these days.
I do not think that CCP Fozzie and Rise are the only ones that work hard there. They just have a job which needs immediate interaction with the players.
I am sure that other CCP members work on other projects, like strategic decisions and programming for the next expansion, that are kept secret at the moment. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5556
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Posted - 2013.08.09 10:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Roime wrote:One thing that sticks out that absolutely no development besides ship balancing seems to take place.
CCP is Fozzie and Rise these days.
I think it is likely mainly a perception thing. They are pretty much the only devs actually talking to us and making threads about their plans and ideas in advance, so we can discuss and improve on them. From everyone else it's usually total silence until it gets to the test server. Then they might make a feedback thread, but it's too late to change direction based on feedback and in some cases the feedback can even be largely ignored. This makes the balancing team dominate the CCP forum presence and give the impression of always working hard. The other might be working just as much, but we have no way of knowing. All we have from them is their silence and lack of interaction with the community about their plans. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3254
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Posted - 2013.08.09 10:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Well they used to write dev blogs about upcoming changes.
Maybe it's just summer holidays, tho.
Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
740
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Posted - 2013.08.09 10:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Roime wrote:One thing that sticks out that absolutely no development besides ship balancing seems to take place.
Not true, I heard there are like 120 developers in Dust team - there are whole 2375 players online in that game at the moment (exactly 10 times less than in subscription-based EVE). |
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
212
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Posted - 2013.08.09 11:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
I share Roime's sentiment. I have no insight at CCP but from my outside perspective, being in game dev myself, it appears that very little content is created by art and design teams. Half year between Retribution and Odyssey and all that has been done was a new jump effect, a new shader on the jump gates, some reworked ship hulls and two new props for data and relic sites. Then i see these presentations at Fanfest the art team celebrating itself showing that destroyed ship prop for the relic sites and shake my head. Realisticaly that's one or max two weeks work for a single artist. So extrapolate the amount of content from this that one could expect after half a year from even a small art team of a handful of people. Not saying the art/design team is lazy or incompetent but it's clear CCP's focus isn't Eve and they are grabbing at straws to show something and give Eve players at least the illusion that people work on that game. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2544
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Posted - 2013.08.09 11:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Johan Toralen wrote:I share Roime's sentiment. I have no insight at CCP but from my outside perspective, being in game dev myself, it appears that very little content is created by art and design teams
Interesting observation.
From my perspective, I haven't seen a shred of work out of you. Obviously you're not working hard enough.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
212
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Posted - 2013.08.09 14:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Johan Toralen wrote:I share Roime's sentiment. I have no insight at CCP but from my outside perspective, being in game dev myself, it appears that very little content is created by art and design teams Interesting observation. From my perspective, I haven't seen a shred of work out of you. Obviously you're not working hard enough.
Not sure why you feel the need to get defensive on CCP's behalf. Tell me about all the art that you see created between the expansions. I don't see it. Have you seen the X trailer? How long has Egosoft worked on that, 2-3 years? Eve is ten years old. It's not rocket sience that the game could look a lot more vibrant, alive and immersive if a dedicated art/design team would work on it all year. Again i don't see it. Making a new skin for a Navy faction ship is a days work for an artist. But CCP sells it like a whole team had to work on it for months and people like you buy it. I don't blame you. Perhaps you've never opened Maya or Photoshop.
And i don't say that they don't work hard enough. Only that it's obvious to anyone who knows a thing or two about game art that CCP's artists and designers must work on something else then Eve. There is no other explanation. Just check the F&I section of the forums. All stickies for Odyssey 1.1 involve things that are merely tweaking some values in script files. No sticky about new content being created.
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
282
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Posted - 2013.08.09 15:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Johan Toralen wrote:War Kitten wrote:Johan Toralen wrote:I share Roime's sentiment. I have no insight at CCP but from my outside perspective, being in game dev myself, it appears that very little content is created by art and design teams Interesting observation. From my perspective, I haven't seen a shred of work out of you. Obviously you're not working hard enough. Not sure why you feel the need to get defensive on CCP's behalf. Tell me about all the art that you see created between the expansions. I don't see it. Have you seen the X trailer? How long has Egosoft worked on that, 2-3 years? Eve is ten years old. It's not rocket sience that the game could look a lot more vibrant, alive and immersive if a dedicated art/design team would work on it all year. Again i don't see it. Making a new skin for a Navy faction ship is a days work for an artist. But CCP sells it like a whole team had to work on it for months and people like you buy it. I don't blame you. Perhaps you've never opened Maya or Photoshop. And i don't say that they don't work hard enough. Only that it's obvious to anyone who knows a thing or two about game art that CCP's artists and designers must work on something else then Eve. There is no other explanation. Just check the F&I section of the forums. All stickies for Odyssey 1.1 involve things that are merely tweaking some values in script files. No sticky about new content being created. Everyone's outsourcing these days, the arts probably done by Rashniki and Pushba Singh out of a dingy one bedroom hovel in New Delhi. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2547
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Posted - 2013.08.09 18:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Johan Toralen wrote:War Kitten wrote:Johan Toralen wrote:I share Roime's sentiment. I have no insight at CCP but from my outside perspective, being in game dev myself, it appears that very little content is created by art and design teams Interesting observation. From my perspective, I haven't seen a shred of work out of you. Obviously you're not working hard enough. Not sure why you feel the need to get defensive on CCP's behalf. Tell me about all the art that you see created between the expansions. I don't see it. Have you seen the X trailer? How long has Egosoft worked on that, 2-3 years? Eve is ten years old. It's not rocket sience that the game could look a lot more vibrant, alive and immersive if a dedicated art/design team would work on it all year. Again i don't see it. Making a new skin for a Navy faction ship is a days work for an artist. But CCP sells it like a whole team had to work on it for months and people like you buy it. I don't blame you. Perhaps you've never opened Maya or Photoshop. And i don't say that they don't work hard enough. Only that it's obvious to anyone who knows a thing or two about game art that CCP's artists and designers must work on something else then Eve. There is no other explanation. Just check the F&I section of the forums. All stickies for Odyssey 1.1 involve things that are merely tweaking some values in script files. No sticky about new content being created.
You keep tripping over my point without seeing it.
You're not a project manager at CCP. You're not a stakeholder. You're not a team member. Of course *you* haven't seen anything.
What you're seeing is what is ready to release, not what has been worked on.
For all we know the art team is busting chops working on POS revamp artwork that might not release for 1-2 more expansions, or new ship hulls, or customizable ship skins, or who knows what else, and some yutz comes along in the forums trashing their work because he hasn't seen anything new lately that he couldn't have whipped out in a day's work because he's so pro.
Being all game developery like you claim, one would think you'd be familiar with the concept of "It's not done yet, don't show it to anyone."
Additionaly, fwiw, Eve isn't supposed to look alive and vibrant like a Japanese mech game, it's a cold, dark and harsh universe. It's also an existing body of work, not a game for a handheld platform that needs to drum up all the flashy artwork it can to impress people into buying it.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Chamile Eonic
The Church of MDAMC
36
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Posted - 2013.08.11 20:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:
You're not a project manager at CCP. You're not a stakeholder. You're not a team member. Of course *you* haven't seen anything.
What you're seeing is what is ready to release, not what has been worked on.
I don't think is is talking about just the art produced for odyssey. If you look over the last few years its been pretty much the same. unless they have been saving stuff up for the last few years to release in one Mega expansion, I doubt they have been producing stuff thats needed.
The most likely think is poor project management. They spend a huge amount of time working on stuff thats not getting released to the public. This would lead our impression of little being done. But from their side of things a huge number of items have been created.
if this is the case, its not the artists who have failed but the management who should be utilizing this resource better. If you get them to produce **** loads of character clothes and then don't release them its not the artists fault.
But the truth is if you take out database changes (like ship balancing, loot drops) there is very little content produced by CCP that gets released to the public.
This is why Dust will fail. CCP can't produce stuff fast enough to keep up with battlefield etc. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2564
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Posted - 2013.08.12 11:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
Chamile Eonic wrote: I don't think is is talking about just the art produced for odyssey. If you look over the last few years its been pretty much the same. unless they have been saving stuff up for the last few years to release in one Mega expansion, I doubt they have been producing stuff thats needed.
The last few years?
Ok, how about a revamp to nearly every ship in the game (The V3 initiative) New animated turrets for every turret in the game. Animated launchers and missiles. New jumpgate models and art. New stealth bomber models. I think even the planets and nebulas got updated within the last couple years.
What else were you wanting them to work on besides ships in this spaceship game?
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
881
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yeah, because you are constantly looking at awesome turret and launchers animations... They are needed for making vids or when you showing game to somebody and that's all.
Eve is in full rebalance/tiercide mode right now, anything new is in pushed down the todo list. Ask about POS plans and you will hear "we talk about it, nothing is done". I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Anea Ruminare
20
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Chamile Eonic wrote: I don't think is is talking about just the art produced for odyssey. If you look over the last few years its been pretty much the same. unless they have been saving stuff up for the last few years to release in one Mega expansion, I doubt they have been producing stuff thats needed.
The last few years? Stuff... What else were you wanting them to work on besides ships in this spaceship game?
Just to be fair, CCP should release a statement with the % of money from subs spent on eve development per semester, starting 2012.
Ofc, if those money would have been spent on a project that plays on PC, that the eve community can directly benefit from, then it would have been ok. But they aren`t.
And if I hear the "but it is their money and you are not a shareholder" argument, I will go nuts. It is such a shallow thing to say.
It is simple, if they refuse to reinvest the money I pay them towards my enjoyment, I will click the cancel subscription. And even if you will understand the real motive for player base decline in the future or not, this will be the reality for the next years.
And this is the real concern Chamile Eonic wrote about, not development time etc. The development power left EVE about 1-2 years ago.
Just think about it, you pay for a full game every 3 months.
I am just concerned about EVE, because it is such a beautiful and intelligent game. Would hate to see it going free to play and become mediocre.
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Jack Morrison
Sinister Spinster Triple Penetration Empire
14
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Not sure why war kitten took the role of a CCP lawyer here. I think one can pretty much sum it up by asking ' When did you last get really new features like wormholes / incursions ?'. Not hard to answer that. Remodelled ships and new visual effects have a cool factor of a few seconds. |
Prince Kobol
869
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Roime wrote:One thing that sticks out that absolutely no development besides ship balancing seems to take place. Not true, I heard there are like 120 developers in Dust team - there are whole 2375 players online in that game at the moment (exactly 10 times less than in subscription-based EVE).
120 Devs working on Dust lol, please tell me what you are smoking as I want some :) |
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
21
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
Zomg by the time i get back full time on eve, i need to relearn my 7yrs of ship-expereance again.... CCP PLEASE STOP DOING SUCH A GOOD JOB!!! |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
2570
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Posted - 2013.08.12 12:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jack Morrison wrote: Remodelled ships and new visual effects have a cool factor of a few seconds.
Yeah, you look at new artwork for a bit, say your "oohs" and "ahhs" and get back to playing the game.
But the thread was about artwork development, so I filled them in on all the things I could think of that they were missing about artwork.
I pilot zoomed out pretty far all the time and turn down the graphics for maximum performance, yet I notice and appreciate the changes that are made.
I guess some people just can't be pleased and need to complain about things. My need is to argue with them. :)
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
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