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Tetsuo Tsukaya
Pixel Navigators
96
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Posted - 2013.08.12 00:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Callduron wrote:Leonidas Webb wrote:TIn the corporate world, leadership/ management are not there to be the average member/employees friend,
Gosh that sounds horrible. Thank goodness I'm not playing this game in a metrics-driven organisation run by lawyers and accountants.
How is that working out for you guys by the way? |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 13:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:Andski wrote:Remember when Booda leaked some advice Mittens gave him? Yeah, he should have probably followed that advice instead of simultaneously disregarding it, mocking it and burning the last diplomatic bridge to an alliance with a "best possible friends, worst possible enemies" policy. You cannot seriously mean that you want to blue up another huge alliance again?
Andski is from Goons. Who blue anything with a pulse. (I mean Fweddit for instance, lol).
Test has made its bed by rejecting its blues. We could have been friends with Goons, we could have put up with Sort Dragon. We're driven by a desire for conflict and "narrative", I don't think any TEST leader to date would ever have wanted to put us in a position where we have a year of peace.
There are many many people in Eve who don't have sov because they choose not to blue everyone or because they're incompetent at bluing everyone. It's been a bit of both in our history.
Remember CFC is half the galaxy, Goons = Deklein, one small region. And even within Goons alliance there's a ton of impore pubbies - they're actually closer in culture to Wildly Inappropriate Reloaded than the pubbie-hating nihilists from the Something Awful forums. They put up with a ton of pubbie pets for political power and that's a house of cards that could quite easily change (if Mittani burned out and DJ took over for instance).
Sovlessness should give TEST the opportunity to jockey for new diplomatic advantage in the Game of Thrones that will one day emerge between the blue team that owns the left half of the sov map and the red team that owns the right side of the sov map. I'd love to see us play both sides off against the middle the way BL did in the Fountain war although that's just my opinion and currently we're blue to N3 and rather unrepentently Grr Goons. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 13:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:Callduron wrote:Leonidas Webb wrote:TIn the corporate world, leadership/ management are not there to be the average member/employees friend,
Gosh that sounds horrible. Thank goodness I'm not playing this game in a metrics-driven organisation run by lawyers and accountants. How is that working out for you guys by the way?
I had one of the most fun days I ever had in Eve yesterday. First my carrier alt got tackled and the thing pointing it let me go after his dread friends sieged so I got to warp safe giving them the finger. I ran 3 fleets to help people get stuff out. The first one I got to dumpster my hero Kurator's gatecamp, killing his two tech 2 large bubbles and an eris, trading for a condor and an ibis while juggling billions of isk worth of evac fit refugees in safes. Next fleet I got to field test a doctrine idea which is always a great moment for a FC and out-manoeuvred a RIOT skirmish naga gang then bulled a gate camp killing T2 large bubbles while under Tornado fire, repping everyone like a mad thing and jumping my scythe out in structure seconds after the non-combat ships got through. The doctrine showed to advantage. And the last fleet, perhaps fortunately for my nerves, I got to fly everyone all the way to safety without losing anyone bar a blackbird who sat outside the forcefield for odell to bomb after I told him to come in.
Also spent 2 hours in a bomber gang hunting talwars and got blown up by odell in my vexor.
Some of you may have seen the EN24 piece or Gevlon's blog article comparing my take on the PR- fight ("woo hoo, I hero tackled Elo") with Baki Yuku's ("kill yourself if you think that was good"). TEST's situation is extremely frustrating for some of us, the power players, the progression-oriented people and so on but it's awesome for those of us who think jumping into a brawl with a badly fit Crucifier is a great thing to do and who can find the fun in fleeting up with friends and doing stuff. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
worldlimits
The Brotherhood of Chaos Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
7
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Posted - 2013.08.12 14:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
The health of any alliance is always subjective. The definition of a 'healthy' alliance is so varied. Most pre cfc li3 fed dudes would argue li3 is dead. People say irrelevant npc null is the graveyard of alliances yet people keep measuring an alliance based on their pvp fleet size. Yes a bigger fleet results in greater power but it does not define an alliance. An alliance is a bunch of people who want to have fun together. You see test shouting at people doing the background stuff. I have been the receiving end of jadecougar's shouting in li3. When you start start shouting people who are facilitating fun, theres going to be problems. Its extremely important to appreciate and acknowledge the background dudes. Just saying thanks for existing is all thats needed. Stop being so self centred and think of other people's hard work which allowed you to have fun.
TLDR; people will still play eve together in an alliance if its FUN. MAKE YOUR ALLIANCE FUN. If its fun, it will automatically attract people. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 14:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Quite so, Worlds
(And in case I didn't say it before, thanks for the work you did in Li3). CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
424
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 14:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Callduron wrote:KuroVolt wrote:Andski wrote:Remember when Booda leaked some advice Mittens gave him? Yeah, he should have probably followed that advice instead of simultaneously disregarding it, mocking it and burning the last diplomatic bridge to an alliance with a "best possible friends, worst possible enemies" policy. You cannot seriously mean that you want to blue up another huge alliance again? Andski is from Goons. Who blue anything with a pulse. (I mean Fweddit for instance, lol). ]
FWEDDIT guys were beating TEST on the killboards....hell they maintaned a possitive ratio.
But if you want to talk about blueing anything with a pulse. TRIBE,WHYSO,INK,J4GP(or whoever the other end of fweddit was) along with NC. Nulli. PL
.......how'd that work out for you? |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 15:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
Callduron wrote: Andski is from Goons. Who blue anything with a pulse. (I mean Fweddit for instance, lol).
Test has made its bed by rejecting its blues. We could have been friends with Goons, we could have put up with Sort Dragon. We're driven by a desire for conflict and "narrative", I don't think any TEST leader to date would ever have wanted to put us in a position where we have a year of peace.
There are many many people in Eve who don't have sov because they choose not to blue everyone or because they're incompetent at bluing everyone. It's been a bit of both in our history.
Remember CFC is half the galaxy, Goons = Deklein, one small region. And even within Goons alliance there's a ton of impure pubbies - they're actually closer in culture to Wildly Inappropriate Reloaded than the pubbie-hating nihilists from the Something Awful forums. They put up with a ton of pubbie pets for political power and that's a house of cards that could quite easily change (if Mittani burned out and DJ took over for instance).
Based on the current turn of events i feel i cannot show my face around these parts anymore. I have turned into what i despise. i don't think i can be smug posting around here pretending to be better than the rest of the CFC when pubbie filth is paying for my BLOPS losses. In fact soon i wont event be able to lose BLOPS because anyone half competent with working F keys will be blue to us and paying rent...
Callduron would you consider me joining your "all 4 da fun guild"? This is a serious question, i dont think you know how upset i am right now. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 16:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Charles buddy you haven't turned into anything if memory serves me correctly. (I've forgotten your SA name and a quick google is not turning it up).
Isn't your history something like: Played Eve for a year Registered on SA 3 months later joined SA's Eve guild?
Long time ago, admittedly. But you've always been a pubbie who joined SA to play in their Eve guild.
And no, you can't join us, try Fweddit or Brave Newbies. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 17:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Callduron wrote:Charles buddy you haven't turned into anything if memory serves me correctly. (I've forgotten your SA name and a quick google is not turning it up).
Isn't your history something like: Played Eve for a year Registered on SA 3 months later joined SA's Eve guild?
Long time ago, admittedly. But you've always been a pubbie who joined SA to play in their Eve guild.
And no, you can't join us, try Fweddit or Brave Newbies.
That is pretty close actually. Only thing not accurate is i joined SA's EVE guild like a month or 2 into EVE (i stayed in DPG but as mentioned things back then were different than today). You have to remember alliances didn't even exist in-game as an organization option and corporations had a much much lower member cap so things were a mess back then as far as "guild" organization.
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Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
498
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 19:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
My point was as a J4G you don't get to take the moral high ground about pubbies. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
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Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 19:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
Oh i know what your point was. I disagree.
Im still pretty upset Maybe i can join Snot Shot and be part of PIZZA |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8575
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 19:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
it's pretty hilarious when J4Gs are complaining about J4Gs Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 19:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
What? No.
If anything it would be a J4G complaining about blue pubbies. Unless the plan is to get all the renters into GoonWaffe which i mean is definitely not beyond the realm of possibility at the rate things are going.
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Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
499
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 20:44:00 -
[44] - Quote
Andski wrote:it's pretty hilarious when J4Gs are complaining about J4Gs
Pretty sure SEDNA has no one in it who did not join for the community's stated purpose. It's people who join for the wrong reason that the Goon pejorative applies to.
I'm surprised you're so confused, I guess if you compromise your culture so frequently it gets hard to remember what it originally was. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8578
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 23:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Callduron wrote:Andski wrote:it's pretty hilarious when J4Gs are complaining about J4Gs Pretty sure SEDNA has no one in it who did not join for the community's stated purpose. It's people who join for the wrong reason that the Goon pejorative applies to. I'm surprised you're so confused, I guess if you compromise your culture so frequently it gets hard to remember what it originally was.
GoonWaffe's purpose is for goons to have fun playing this game with other goons. That's it. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1998
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 01:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Leonidas Webb wrote:Here are a few tips for TEST to aid in thier recovery.
1). Most importantly you must have goals. Not the "we shall rule the universe and get revenge on those that did this to us" sort, but honest, realistic, achievable goals for short, intermediate, and long term.
2). You need trustworthy, accountable leadership willing to do what is necessary to achieve those goals.
3). "Trim the fat" - in essence, first boot anyone that is severely inactive, then boot anyone whose agenda is not in line with the completion of your goals.
4). Learn who your friends are and treat them with gratitude and respect.
5). Learn and grow from every encounter as both victory and defeat are useful and informative and an excellent resource for strengthening your alliance if viewed objectively.
I could keep going but that should be more than enough to point you in the right direction.
These are some good points:
1) Defining an alliance objective by who you hate really doesn't work. Especially not when the group you dislike is the size of say... the CFC. In order to fight something that large you have to draw together all the people that hate us, and frankly most of them don't much like eachother either.
2) This is a major problem in TEST right now. TEST is leadership by the masses, which means rather than having a unifying organization and direction, instead you are firing off in all different directions.
3) This will be an issue for TEST as they have attempted to build upon the Goonwaffe "I do whatever I want whenever I want" mentality but they never much bothered to do the necessary things that would enable that to happen and still succeed. Look we don't have SMA blue because we love them. We have them blue because they will fight while I rat in my Ishtar, or focus on small gang ****.
4) This has been a major stumbling block for TEST. You can try to spin the narrative of the evil CFC wickedly handing you two regions on a silver platter while keeping you under their jackbooted heels however you want, but it's simply not true. If you do try to spin that narrative you'll be forced to answer questions like: Why was TEST allowed to keep Tech moons in CFC space despite not being members of that entity anymore? TEST absolutely must learn to not **** on their allies, they must learn diplomacy. And most importantly they must start actually living up to the promises they make.
5) Is really just a clever way of restating points 1-4. |
Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
295
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 04:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:Leonidas Webb wrote:Here are a few tips for TEST to aid in thier recovery.
1). Most importantly you must have goals. Not the "we shall rule the universe and get revenge on those that did this to us" sort, but honest, realistic, achievable goals for short, intermediate, and long term.
2). You need trustworthy, accountable leadership willing to do what is necessary to achieve those goals.
3). "Trim the fat" - in essence, first boot anyone that is severely inactive, then boot anyone whose agenda is not in line with the completion of your goals.
4). Learn who your friends are and treat them with gratitude and respect.
5). Learn and grow from every encounter as both victory and defeat are useful and informative and an excellent resource for strengthening your alliance if viewed objectively.
I could keep going but that should be more than enough to point you in the right direction. These are some good points: 1) Defining an alliance objective by who you hate really doesn't work. Especially not when the group you dislike is the size of say... the CFC. In order to fight something that large you have to draw together all the people that hate us, and frankly most of them don't much like eachother either. 2) This is a major problem in TEST right now. TEST is leadership by the masses, which means rather than having a unifying organization and direction, instead you are firing off in all different directions. 3) This will be an issue for TEST as they have attempted to build upon the Goonwaffe "I do whatever I want whenever I want" mentality but they never much bothered to do the necessary things that would enable that to happen and still succeed. Look we don't have SMA blue because we love them. We have them blue because they will fight while I rat in my Ishtar, or focus on small gang ****. 4) This has been a major stumbling block for TEST. You can try to spin the narrative of the evil CFC wickedly handing you two regions on a silver platter while keeping you under their jackbooted heels however you want, but it's simply not true. If you do try to spin that narrative you'll be forced to answer questions like: Why was TEST allowed to keep Tech moons in CFC space despite not being members of that entity anymore? TEST absolutely must learn to not **** on their allies, they must learn diplomacy. And most importantly they must start actually living up to the promises they make. 5) Is really just a clever way of restating points 1-4.
<3
He noticed us. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
500
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 05:03:00 -
[48] - Quote
Andski wrote:Callduron wrote:Andski wrote:it's pretty hilarious when J4Gs are complaining about J4Gs Pretty sure SEDNA has no one in it who did not join for the community's stated purpose. It's people who join for the wrong reason that the Goon pejorative applies to. I'm surprised you're so confused, I guess if you compromise your culture so frequently it gets hard to remember what it originally was. GoonWaffe's purpose is for goons to have fun playing this game with other goons. That's it.
You're being disingenuous. "J4G" is a term that relates to the Something Awful forums, to people who joined those forums to unlock access to a game guild with no intention of becoming a member of the SA forum posting community. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Charles Case
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 05:32:00 -
[49] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote: These are some good points:
1) Defining an alliance objective by who you hate really doesn't work. Especially not when the group you dislike is the size of say... the CFC. In order to fight something that large you have to draw together all the people that hate us, and frankly most of them don't much like eachother either.
2) This is a major problem in TEST right now. TEST is leadership by the masses, which means rather than having a unifying organization and direction, instead you are firing off in all different directions.
3) This will be an issue for TEST as they have attempted to build upon the Goonwaffe "I do whatever I want whenever I want" mentality but they never much bothered to do the necessary things that would enable that to happen and still succeed. Look we don't have SMA blue because we love them. We have them blue because they will fight while I rat in my Ishtar, or focus on small gang ****.
4) This has been a major stumbling block for TEST. You can try to spin the narrative of the evil CFC wickedly handing you two regions on a silver platter while keeping you under their jackbooted heels however you want, but it's simply not true. If you do try to spin that narrative you'll be forced to answer questions like: Why was TEST allowed to keep Tech moons in CFC space despite not being members of that entity anymore? TEST absolutely must learn to not **** on their allies, they must learn diplomacy. And most importantly they must start actually living up to the promises they make.
5) Is really just a clever way of restating points 1-4.
Hey SmilingVagrant i think i was your 2000th like, just saying.
And that was a good post imho. Maybe that's why you're a leader of TopGoon and im another goon grunt howling my objections and frustrations into the dark cave that is CAOD. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
501
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 05:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
Yup some good points, SmilingVagrant.
We do indeed need to get better at managing our blues. Diplomatic favour is a currency and we need to learn not to keep pouring it down the drain.
That said there were good reasons why TEST took the steps it did - we needed to grow and develop and become independent rather than, say, be the game's largest alliance still crashing in the Testagram and messing up goon comms.
It's been genuinely sad for TEST members how low we've fallen this time though, seeing friends seek new alignments that mean we won't really play Eve with them again.
For me TEST's number one priority, wherever we live and whoever we fight, has to be to become an alliance people really want to stay in - part of that being a necessary improvement in how we manage diplomacy. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
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Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations Self Sabatoge
1162
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 07:42:00 -
[51] - Quote
Callduron, you've been getting a bit worked up lately in this thread. My offer still stands- leave test and have some fun again, in my corp. I'll even give you a medal like I did for Iamien. See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
501
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 07:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
No, I'm fine thanks. I got a medal. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations Self Sabatoge
1164
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 08:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
Callduron wrote:No, I'm fine thanks. I got a medal.
Yeah but you could start having fun again instead of being mad all the time. Plus, not just anyone gets a medal from me. See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8585
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 08:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
on the bright side test can actually demonize us for kicking them out of their home unlike that dumpster tier latin named alliance we kicked out of delve alongside TEST and PL that then decided that PL and TEST were their best friends Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8585
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 08:19:00 -
[55] - Quote
not that test will be of any consequence in a month's time now that the core of their membership is either inactive or in other alliances, heh Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Tara Read
The Bastards Shadow Cartel
546
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 10:55:00 -
[56] - Quote
metalravenous wrote:I have been part of a number of alliances in my Eve lifetime. In all cases when things went into the failscade nose dive there was no recovery and the alliance died. I am wondering for anyone who has experienced the opposite. How did your alliance pull out of its tailspin? What were the signs of recovery? How long did the rebuilding period take? Etc etc...pls post relevant stories hete
I find friendships that extend beyond a certain name ie "TEST" or "GOONS" to be the strongest form of survival. The question is really how are the bonds and relationships of TEST members with each other? What about leadership? From the hectic inner firings to people jumping ship only to be another PL "elite" I'd have to say not so good.
My advice? Forget SOV. Its done. For whatever reasons I truly feel if TEST try's to remain a force in null they will fall and fall hard. It's already happening. People are blaming each other, line members are becoming disenfranchised, and you have the likes of Gelvon Goblin infecting your ranks with promises of fortune and glory while forsaking all common sense for an Excel spreadsheet.
The best thing for TEST to do is go to Low Sec. No I mean it. Develop pilots with intimate combat, let FC's learn slowly. Each member becomes more valued in small gang pvp. Each pilot has a more sense of self worth, and lvl 5's are plenty for line members to jew away.
People speak about Low Sec like it's banishment when rather it's probably the best thing that could ever happen to TEST. It would force people to engage with one another and god forbid I say it develop friendships. It's why I am enamored with Shadow Cartel.
It's why I love Low Sec. You aren't someones *****, a pawn, just another F1'ing loser thinking because you have a certain Alliances tag next to your name you are hot ****. Also TEST needs to grow up. This **** spamming mindset and aspie induced ragefest spewed by your line members over these forums, Reddit, and other public spaces is utterly embarassing and pathetic.
Whether TEST can take wisdom in their defeat and transform into something worthwhile is yet to be seen. Just like the return of Jesus Christ. Who knows? All I know is I for one am not holding my breath. Visit my blog for all the latest in jeers and tears as well as news at hoistthecolors.org |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
384
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 19:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
Andski wrote:on the bright side test can actually demonize us for kicking them out of their home unlike that dumpster tier latin named alliance we kicked out of delve alongside TEST and PL that then decided that PL and TEST were their best friends I knew we were gone when Mynnna didn't even know it was S2N citizens that got disbanded. Oh well, been quite a run all in all. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Test Alliance Please Ignore
502
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 21:12:00 -
[58] - Quote
Andski wrote:on the bright side test can actually demonize us for kicking them out of their home unlike that dumpster tier latin named alliance we kicked out of delve alongside TEST and PL that then decided that PL and TEST were their best friends
I actually hope not.
I think TEST's best hope is in being diplomatically agile. Of course we still have a ton of people who want to hurt goons but pursuing a forever war reminds me of Monty Python's Black Knight, shouting come on then at King Arthur with his arms and legs cut off.
Maybe at some point we'll get to dump on a common target, the fount of all friendship in Eve. CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
511
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 21:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
Callduron wrote:Andski wrote:on the bright side test can actually demonize us for kicking them out of their home unlike that dumpster tier latin named alliance we kicked out of delve alongside TEST and PL that then decided that PL and TEST were their best friends I actually hope not. I think TEST's best hope is in being diplomatically agile.
Its never too late to embrace NRDS! |
Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
298
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 21:21:00 -
[60] - Quote
Callduron wrote:I think TEST's best hope is in being diplomatically agile.
I haven't seen any indication that test has anyone in a leadership role that can be diplomatically agile. Even if they did, I'm not sure who is left to open communications with. |
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