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Cyrus Alabel
Penumbra Institute Catastrophic Uprising
32
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Posted - 2013.08.13 17:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Having been removed from the Gallente militia for a month now to pursue my own interests, I got to thinking...does there not seem something suspicious about our so-called "faction warfare"?
Really, think about it. Pilots who fight in the militias are presented with a startling amount of uniformity of everything from baseliner naval opponents to the very interfaces on their ships. Take, for example, the military complexes we find in the systems. They are uniformly found in deadspace, randomly placed about a fixed set of systems, and whose contents are almost identical. The plexes are the same sizes, with the same stipulated control conditions by each faction, and whose paltry naval guards are uniform as well. For example, a 'small' plex will always have one destroyer and its acceleration gate limited to frigates and destroyers. More worryingly, there was a time where the navies bothered to have more ships guarding these complexes, and all at once they decided to draw back and leave quite paltry guarding of the same. And the so-called "button", that small structure always within several KM of the warp-in, is even the same, no matter which militia is actually in control of the system.
Going back to the uniform set of systems thing for one moment: why does the fight for control never leave these systems? Sure, you can take a ship into enemy hisec, or even enemy losec that is not inside this seemingly designated warzone, and it won't matter one bit what you do to change the sov holder of that system.
Then there is the fact that every pilot's interface for these wars, regardless of who they fly for, is the same in appearance regardless of militia. While I have not flown for any of the others, I have seen imagery from pilots' drones with their interfaces overlaid atop the image, and they are all the same. Same "system control" bar, same "factional warfare" window that contains the relevant Navy's strategic maps.
There is also the matter of the loyalty stores operated for each faction. I cannot help but notice that they are extremely similar in costs to the pilots, from basic ammunition, to ships, implants, even the uniforms. There are variations for each faction, to be sure (ever heard of a Caldari Navy laser crystal?), but there is a noticeable pattern to it.
Lastly, why were the powers so ready to sign onto CEWPA? Yes, you can reasonably claim that Gallente-Caldari tension after the first invasion of Luminaire, coupled with the whole Nyx-crashing-into-a-peace-conference thing, would be enough cause for warfare. And the Minmatar's Elder Fleet invasion of Amarr space would provide enough justification for those powers to go to war. But these events were almost simultaneous.
Any one of these things could be written off as happenstance. But...doesn't it seem like there's just something fundamentally wrong with it all? |
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
322
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Posted - 2013.08.13 17:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
You forgot the fact that the wars have been been 'won' several times, with a faction entirely pushed out of its warzone, with absolutely zero result.
There's an extremely simple explanation. The Empyrean 'wars' are shiny baubles thrown to capsuleers to keep their destructive impulses focused and controlled, and occasionally political points to be waved to say to the common populace 'look, we're being mean to our hated enemy'!
Oh, and a source of income for the arms industry. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
1107
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Posted - 2013.08.13 18:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
The people to feel sorry for are the colonists who are stuck in the endless to and fro of what is little more than a political flex to the masses.
And the poor bastards who crew the ships, thinking this is the only way to provide for their families... y'know the ones who aren't immortal capsuleers. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Isis Dea
Combat Cruise Control
6
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Posted - 2013.08.13 18:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Indeed. Yet for all the safeguards, CONCORD possibly aims to break the system. They've stopped enforcing law between the war sides and nothing is keeping you, as a Gallente, from undocking on Jita IV - IV and lighting ablaze someone who's taking up a banner against the Federation.
I'm sure the higher powers do their best to lock down these actions but their navies are predictable. The Navy is armed purely with Kinetic/Thermal weaponry (on both sides) and our modular ships can very much be fitted to make a laughing stock of their arsenal.
If you don't like the uniformity and you truly are passionately involved in this war, take to behind the enemy's lines, hunt them down with support of peers where they believe they are safe. Give them truly the war they signed up for.
And if you're short on income, farm their uniform complexes until they hand you enough of their "loyalty" currency to sell your way back into the fray.
Let them fear their decisions and their uniformity, CONCORD surely warned them already... |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
856
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Posted - 2013.08.13 18:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
There's a reason a number of us (often loudly) hold the opinion that the proxy wars are a waste of time for all practical intents and purposes.
Systems 'flip' back and forth so often these days that any sort of lasting plan held by the governments rarely comes to any sort of fruition. Just look at the so-called auction of development rights for the State's megacorporations over Federation space in Placid and other regions. What hope have they of actually getting anything back of their investment if the systems keep flipping ownership so rapidly that by the time they move back in, it's already time to evac?
When I graduated from the Academy I had originally had my sights set on militia service. Looking back, changing my mind when I found steady contracting work directly through the Federation Navy was one of the better career decisions I've made over the years.
Sure, I could've gotten stupid rich (for a capsuleer) reasonably quickly. But on the other hand, scraping by at first, learning to pace myself and thinking carefully about large purchases and how I would afford replacements and the like, taught me a lot more than just stuffing my wallet full of ISK would have.
Instead of becoming someone who just threw ISK at a problem I learned how to look at the situation from different angles, then find and act on the best solution(s) available. Usually with my own hands, so to speak.
That's not to say that you can't learn anything from militia service, but in my case I think I was better served by changing my mind when I had the opportunity. Morwen Lagann Director, Tyrathlion Interstellar |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1417
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Posted - 2013.08.13 18:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Funny that, I've always said that choosing Militia service right out of the Academy made me the pilot I am today. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
4298
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Posted - 2013.08.13 18:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tuulinen-haan, honor the warrior, hate the war. It's an endless cycle of violence. Surely you'll agree with that, though we'd both agree that it's better to be on the winning side even if there is no end. |
Shintoko Akahoshi
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
363
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Posted - 2013.08.13 20:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
There's a truism that states you should choose containable violence when violence can't be avoided. I suspect that this was the original intent of CEMWPA.
What it's turned into, however, is fairly unending low-level warfare and a deterrent to diplomacy. While there's certainly something of a pressure relief function that it serves, I think it's primary virtue at the moment is to provide a training ground for new combat pilots. Bio and writing
(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated) |
Maris Verdure
Ataraxia Pharmacies
1
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Posted - 2013.08.13 20:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
There have been times I've wondered if all the resources expended in setting up and keeping the warzone going couldn't have been better spent on making and distributing a kickass holographic space combat simulator. |
Rodj Blake
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1421
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Posted - 2013.08.13 20:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Even wars must have rules.
For without rules there is anarchy.
And wars cannot continue in anarchy. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
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Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
326
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Posted - 2013.08.13 21:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Funny that, I've always said that choosing Militia service right out of the Academy made me the pilot I am today.
I will stress that although I have little time for the conflict itself, I don't consider that any reflection on those who fight in it. True, there are many who simply seek an easy source of constant violence, but there are also some (Pyre Falcon being a prime example, from what I've seen) that are fine bodies of men and women worthy of my respect. Just because the war itself is a joke of a cause does not mean that there aren't causes to fight for in it. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate Caldari State
516
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Posted - 2013.08.13 23:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
After it has started, I can kill gallentes once again. I don't care about similarities, buttons, systems. I feel alive. Once again. And for this, I am grateful with my life to Tibus Heth.
Glory to the State! |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1734
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Posted - 2013.08.14 04:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Why its almost as if the faction war is a manufactured stopgap measure designed to prevent full blown total war from breaking out. A safety valve.
A meat grinder designed to kill a few brave volunteers so that the hapless trillions do not need to suffer the horrors of war, and at the same time can cheer on their favorite teams from the safety of their homes ensconced safely in high sec.
Minus the few people who still bother (or have no choice but) to live their lives out in the warzone. Still, can't afford too much consideration for that, since there are games to consider! |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1434
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Posted - 2013.08.14 04:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
The systems out there are still real systems with real colonists. Having read the plans that some of the FDU have for their personal suzreignties 'when the war is won' has given me all the reason I need to be out there on that wall. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1593
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Posted - 2013.08.14 04:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
The proxy war is just the overworked bouncer telling four belligerent drunks to "take it outside." Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
1735
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Posted - 2013.08.14 11:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:The systems out there are still real systems with real colonists. Having read the plans that some of the FDU have for their personal suzreignties 'when the war is won' has given me all the reason I need to be out there on that wall.
Define that end point, though.
It's clearly not 'when one side controls the entire warzone', as both the Caldari and the Gallente have discovered. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1436
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Posted - 2013.08.14 15:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
There is no defined end point. Which is ridiculous, I know - believe me that whilst I see the need to be out there, I won't be at all upset when the proxy war is over. I do still have hopes that with the cooling of the war between the Federation and the State and with the matter of Home resolved for the moment, we might see an end to it sooner rather than later.
But that's WELL above my pay grade. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
3183
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Posted - 2013.08.14 16:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:But that's WELL above my pay grade. You're a capsuleer. You need to stop believing that "above my pay grade" exists for us. If the empires want us to fight their proxy wars for them, they should be a little more open with the intelligence. Mane 614
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1437
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Posted - 2013.08.14 17:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:But that's WELL above my pay grade. You're a capsuleer. You need to stop believing that "above my pay grade" exists for us. If the empires want us to fight their proxy wars for them, they should be a little more open with the intelligence.
Given the nebulous loyalties of most Capsuleers in the Militias that would be a VERY bad idea.
Can I say that all this wider 'geo-political' stuff is over my head then, if not my pay grade? I mean, I wasn't even a very good diplomat, so what makes you think I ought to be making decisions affecting the wider cluster?
I was never batched with that role in mind. |
Alex Etolle
Shadowfire Exploration and Security Rura-Penthe
9
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Posted - 2013.08.14 18:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:Pieter Tuulinen wrote:But that's WELL above my pay grade. You're a capsuleer. You need to stop believing that "above my pay grade" exists for us. If the empires want us to fight their proxy wars for them, they should be a little more open with the intelligence. Given the nebulous loyalties of most Capsuleers in the Militias that would be a VERY bad idea. Can I say that all this wider 'geo-political' stuff is over my head then, if not my pay grade? I mean, I wasn't even a very good diplomat, so what makes you think I ought to be making decisions affecting the wider cluster? I was never batched with that role in mind.
Pieter's right. I mean I've heard all about traitors and spies when it comes to us Capsuleers. The perfect example of this was one of the few Sansha supercarriers in Capsuleer hands getting blown to smithereens because of a spy in that corp's ranks. because of them, the ambush went off without a hitch, and it was bye-bye Sansha Supercarrier. Who's to say that there aren't spies in the Capsuleer militias right now? or turncoats for that matter? |
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Graelyn
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
474
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Posted - 2013.08.14 19:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:You forgot the fact that the wars have been been 'won' several times, with a faction entirely pushed out of its warzone, with absolutely zero result.
You are completely incorrect.
The Amarr/Matari warzone has never fallen to either side.
No side (Amarr/Caldari - Gallente/Matari) has held the field at once, you know, the actual objective.
Stop thinking that one front's collapse means the end of everything, or that it even should.
+ Cardinal Graelyn + Owner/Operator, "The Summit" Amarr Loyalist of the Year --áYC113 |
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
343
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Posted - 2013.08.14 20:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
Graelyn wrote:Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:You forgot the fact that the wars have been been 'won' several times, with a faction entirely pushed out of its warzone, with absolutely zero result. You are completely incorrect. The Amarr/Matari warzone has never fallen to either side. No side (Amarr/Caldari - Gallente/Matari) has held the field at once, you know, the actual objective. Stop thinking that one front's collapse means the end of everything, or that it even should.
...since when did the Empire give a damn about the Caldari warzone, so long as the State remained intact to balance the Federation? We're allies of convenience at best. Same applies on the opposite side. Recent events show quite how unstable relations are between the Federation and the Republic, and although the State and Empire have not been put to the test in the same fashion, we're not exactly the best of friends.
I'll choose to believe you until we get definite confirmation one way or the other, though. Since the alternative is for a man of your wisdom and experience to be world-shatteringly naive. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1440
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Posted - 2013.08.14 20:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
It's true. We see very few to no Empire pilots in the Caldari warzone. Meanwhile our own deployment to fulfil treaty obligations was so remarkable that it caused quite some uproar.
There never has been much of a spirit of cooperation. |
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