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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1141
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 03:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
And no, I NOT am talking about upcoming nerf on the boosters in the command ship and command links.
I am talking about when OBG's are wiped out.
I was going to walk through the mechanics of incursion payouts, but you guys already know them, and why OGB's are so critical for optimal efficiency.
Well, I have been on Sisi trying to fit an EOS and a Claymore, with more than 3 links. It is impossible. Both lack the CPU to do it by a wide margin, and at the same time fit a tank that will hold up, plus some DPS modules.
So that means 2 Command ships on grid, since the best fleets need minimum of 4 links, more likely 5, to operate. You all know what that means to income/ site, as you either sacrifice DPS or add pilots.
Oh, and just imagine the fun and games when you try the Assault site that splits the squads down separate paths.
Now, all the moo goo backed players are laughing and saying adapt or die, snicker. And the guys that are designing these ships likely never flew an incursion in their lives, and don't care one whit about PvE, since in their eyes, the game is pvp only, and income to do anything magically appears from moon goo.
For everyone else who uses incursions as a source to do anything else in this game, get onto Sisi, try to fit a 4 or 5 link CS, with a tank. And think carefully about the repercussions of when OGB's go bye bye.
In a PvP environment, there is no cap on efficiency quantity of ships on grid. For incursions, that is totally not the case.
Best guess, when combining the nerf to command links and the future destruction of OGB's, I am estimating a 30% drop in earning power. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille Gallente Federation
109
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 04:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Can I offer you some cheese with all of that whine? |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
228
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 04:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Now, all the moo goo backed players are laughing and saying adapt or die, snicker. And the guys that are designing these ships likely never flew an incursion in their lives, and don't care one whit about PvE, since in their eyes, the game is pvp only, and income to do anything magically appears from moon goo.
The same people you are complaining about nerfing OGBs, also significantly buffed alchemy to limit goo pricing, and redistributed goo usage so that no longer is there the abilty to run a 400mil/mo tower to run a whole medium sized corps SRP. You have to own 5 towers, and pay the 2 bil in fuel, and service 5 towers now to see the income that 1 tech tower used to produce, and then you'd need to own a 6th to pay for all the extra fuel to get the same net.
That income is diminished so much that even goons are preparing to host pets renters. ---
Ongrid boosting only will be a significant improvement to the game, and far more important than whether incursion income goes up or goes down. CCP already has levers they can adjust incursion income with anyway. |
ashley Eoner
178
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 05:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:And no, I NOT am talking about upcoming nerf on the boosters in the command ship and command links.
I am talking about when OBG's are wiped out.
I was going to walk through the mechanics of incursion payouts, but you guys already know them, and why OGB's are so critical for optimal efficiency.
Well, I have been on Sisi trying to fit an EOS and a Claymore, with more than 3 links. It is impossible. Both lack the CPU to do it by a wide margin, and at the same time fit a tank that will hold up, plus some DPS modules.
So that means 2 Command ships on grid, since the best fleets need minimum of 4 links, more likely 5, to operate. You all know what that means to income/ site, as you either sacrifice DPS or add pilots.
Oh, and just imagine the fun and games when you try the Assault site that splits the squads down separate paths.
Now, all the moo goo backed players are laughing and saying adapt or die, snicker. And the guys that are designing these ships likely never flew an incursion in their lives, and don't care one whit about PvE, since in their eyes, the game is pvp only, and income to do anything magically appears from moon goo.
For everyone else who uses incursions as a source to do anything else in this game, get onto Sisi, try to fit a 4 or 5 link CS, with a tank. And think carefully about the repercussions of when OGB's go bye bye.
In a PvP environment, there is no cap on efficiency quantity of ships on grid. For incursions, that is totally not the case.
Best guess, when combining the nerf to command links and the future destruction of OGB's, I am estimating a 30% drop in earning power. Well before on grid boosting becomes a reality CCP is going to have to fix a lot of things. Everything from the code to the fact that the Roqual is a terrible on grid ship. Hell any booster ship probably wouldn't survive long on grid in a pvp fight.
Aside from that I have seen a vulture with 5 links (3x siege with rapid and interdiction skirmish) that has a 145k ehp omni tank with a resist profile of 81/94/91/84 (from it's own buffs not including another booster or mindlink). It has already sat on grid in incursions before and it takes less damage then most battleships (while having more ehp).
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1437
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 05:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Now, all the moo goo backed players are laughing and saying adapt or die, snicker. And the guys that are designing these ships likely never flew an incursion in their lives, and don't care one whit about PvE, since in their eyes, the game is pvp only, and income to do anything magically appears from moon goo.
The same people you are complaining about nerfing OGBs, also significantly buffed alchemy to limit goo pricing, and redistributed goo usage so that no longer is there the abilty to run a 400mil/mo tower to run a whole medium sized corps SRP. You have to own 5 towers, and pay the 2 bil in fuel, and service 5 towers now to see the income that 1 tech tower used to produce, and then you'd need to own a 6th to pay for all the extra fuel to get the same net. That income is diminished so much that even goons are preparing to host pets renters. --- Ongrid boosting only will be a significant improvement to the game, and far more important than whether incursion income goes up or goes down. CCP already has levers they can adjust incursion income with anyway.
Oh, Dinsdale. The sky is falling again.
This time, I've been beaten to the punch. I have nothing substantive to add to the quoted bit. |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
396
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 06:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
3 links are fine more are added luxury .
I am more saddened by local tank CS limited(given on purpose) to certain races only..but that's me. http://i.imgur.com/1N37t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KTjFEt6.jpg I dont always fly stabber but when i do...
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Nadia Gallen
Advanced Engineering and Research Division
12
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 08:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
I was kinda of expecting a topic with some more tear filled content.
"Incursion runners, you will have no safe harbor, we will hunt you down, wherever you hide, stations, planets, astroids, wormholes. Nowhere is safe from the raging inferno that is me and my many alts. Who have all infiltrated your channels and listening to your delicious tears."
Something like that.
You are just going on about the OGB, that is rather dissappointing |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
919
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 09:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Your tears are delicious! |
March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
735
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 09:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: Now, all the moo goo backed players are laughing and saying adapt or die, snicker. And the guys that are designing these ships likely never flew an incursion in their lives, and don't care one whit about PvE, since in their eyes, the game is pvp only, and income to do anything magically appears from moon goo.
usually people say about "100+ millions/hour" when doing Incursion. I REALLY would love to see purposes that NEED you to have such income...
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Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
495
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 10:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
March rabbit wrote: usually people say about "100+ millions/hour" when doing Incursion. I REALLY would love to see purposes that NEED you to have such income...
LOL, an eve Socialist.
You didn't know? He that un-subs with the most ISK wins.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
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Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
78
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 10:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Unfortunately this change does nothing to fix main problem: risk free isk grinding. |
Nadia Gallen
Advanced Engineering and Research Division
12
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 11:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tobias Hareka wrote:Unfortunately this change does nothing to fix main problem: risk free isk grinding.
It isn't exactly risk free..
We have to be the target of so many jokes, while we make so much isk per hour, it is hard to endure the onslaughter, it is really making our time spent in eve a living hell... it's true.. the psychological pressure is immense, what if we cannot live up to the expectations, then we can no longer take the pride in being the target of such jokes.. Then we would just be... wasting our time..
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Nadia Gallen
Advanced Engineering and Research Division
12
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 11:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
March rabbit wrote: usually people say about "100+ millions/hour" when doing Incursion. I REALLY would love to see purposes that NEED you to have such income...
I can tell you a small secret in this department.
Alot of the pilots there does incursion, is flying alts. And using the isk they make doing incursions, to finance their main's pvp ships be those in null/low or high sec.
Doing pvp or being the secret moneybacker for a pvp corp isnt exactly cheap. |
Seraph Castillon
Justified Chaos
85
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 12:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but "on grid" != "in range of npcs and taking fire" |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1141
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 12:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nadia Gallen wrote:March rabbit wrote: usually people say about "100+ millions/hour" when doing Incursion. I REALLY would love to see purposes that NEED you to have such income...
I can tell you a small secret in this department. Alot of the pilots there does incursion, is flying alts. And using the isk they make doing incursions, to finance their main's pvp ships be those in null/low or high sec. Doing pvp or being the secret moneybacker for a pvp corp isnt exactly cheap.
Don't tell people that. Don't you know that all of test's 10,000 chars are going to make their money in 7 systems in Aridia, and not a single one will do Incursions to finance their PvP activities? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
158
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 13:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Seraph Castillon wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but "on grid" != "in range of npcs and taking fire" No, but if the CS does get aggro while at a distance, he'll be drawing the NPCs away from the fleet's DPS range. Plus, at that sort of distance he'll be otherwise useless.
Fozzie has stated that he doesn't like the way the Command Processor modules disproportionately affect shield and armor. I think it's a fair bet that that will be addressed before boosts come on grid. Thus, predictions based on current fits are kind of moot.
Sky is not falling. People will adapt. |
Doddy
Dark-Rising
869
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 14:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
If everyone is effected it wont effect the lp sid eof earnings at all, you will earn lp slower but it will be worth more. Isk sure, a small decrease is probable if you were exploiting the OGB to begin with, but then you have benefited form it for years so i wont shed many tears. |
XXSketchxx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
347
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 15:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
ITT a jew complains about pvp balance changes. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2583
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 15:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Now, all the moo goo backed players are laughing and saying adapt or die, snicker. And the guys that are designing these ships likely never flew an incursion in their lives, and don't care one whit about PvE, since in their eyes, the game is pvp only, and income to do anything magically appears from moon goo.
The same people you are complaining about nerfing OGBs, also significantly buffed alchemy to limit goo pricing, and redistributed goo usage so that no longer is there the abilty to run a 400mil/mo tower to run a whole medium sized corps SRP. You have to own 5 towers, and pay the 2 bil in fuel, and service 5 towers now to see the income that 1 tech tower used to produce, and then you'd need to own a 6th to pay for all the extra fuel to get the same net. That income is diminished so much that even goons are preparing to host pets renters. --- Ongrid boosting only will be a significant improvement to the game, and far more important than whether incursion income goes up or goes down. CCP already has levers they can adjust incursion income with anyway.
You just pointed out reality to the sorts of folks who like to live in their own imaginary "place". I don't see this ending well :) . |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
187
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 16:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
oh noes! the massive isk per hour completely safe isk grinding might be in danger. incursions are still out of whack with the rest of pve, way to much isk for no danger. if you are in a group that know what they are doing no one should lose a ship.. ever. I flown enough incursions and most of the time i fell asleep in my scimi as there was so little to do. |
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Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
465
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 16:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
ETA for OGBs being taken off-grid..... ??? AKA probably not anytime soon. That subject has been done to death in other threads, so why would anyone trying to figure out a solution to a problem that could be well over a year away? By the time it's done, who knows what the landscape will look like?
We might as well be having a fret-fest about the hardware requirements for WIS. http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/ |
ashley Eoner
178
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:oh noes! the massive isk per hour completely safe isk grinding might be in danger. incursions are still out of whack with the rest of pve, way to much isk for no danger. if you are in a group that know what they are doing no one should lose a ship.. ever. I flown enough incursions and most of the time i fell asleep in my scimi as there was so little to do. HA HA!!!
Complaining about "completely safe" isk grinding in a game where I can get over 1 billion isk in less then an hours worth of work and there's absolutely nothing you can do to cause any sort of risk. At least with incursion runners you can declare war on them gank them or just harass them. There's not a damned thing you can do to stop me from buying a couple plex with some of the money I make in an hours worth of work. Not to mention the billions of risk free isk made daily on easy trading or moon humping..
QQ some more cause it amuses me. |
James Baboli
Warner Bros.
13
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 20:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:Lady Naween wrote:oh noes! the massive isk per hour completely safe isk grinding might be in danger. incursions are still out of whack with the rest of pve, way to much isk for no danger. if you are in a group that know what they are doing no one should lose a ship.. ever. I flown enough incursions and most of the time i fell asleep in my scimi as there was so little to do. HA HA!!! Complaining about "completely safe" isk grinding in a game where I can get over 1 billion isk in less then an hours worth of work and there's absolutely nothing you can do to cause any sort of risk. At least with incursion runners you can declare war on them gank them or just harass them. There's not a damned thing you can do to stop me from buying a couple plex with some of the money I make in an hours worth of work. Not to mention the billions of risk free isk made daily on easy trading or moon humping.. QQ some more cause it amuses me. Ah, but the raw isk pumped into the furnace of the eve economy by incursions makes all your plex lower in value if you sold them already and are holding onto it as isk. ISK is a known inflationary currency, with an upwards trend, so all of the people who have isk on hand QQ about incursion runners pouring ISK into the bath tub that is the market, thus making their jugs seem smaller by comparison. |
Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
495
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 21:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Wrote a really long detailed explanation of how ISK from Moon Goo Players is so much less important than ISK from PVE (Particularly Incursion runner) Players and how that should have a direct effect on ON-Grid vs. Off-grid booster.... then the forums ate it.
Suffice it to say the laughable Blob PVP'ers that are screaming for On-Grid boosters suffer from a near-sighted disorder that continues to feed the tear harvesters, perhaps that is what EVE is, it's not a spaceship game, not a Micro/Macro economic simulator, not even a Nerd cool version of Facebook it's just one giant self replicating tear harvester.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Bozl1n
ISN Hit Wing
34
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 23:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nadia Gallen wrote:I was kinda of expecting a topic with some more tear filled content.
"Incursion runners, you will have no safe harbor, we will hunt you down, wherever you hide, stations, planets, astroids, wormholes. Nowhere is safe from the raging inferno that is me and my many alts. Who have all infiltrated your channels and listening to your delicious tears."
Something like that.
You are just going on about the OGB, that is rather dissappointing
Lol |
Swidgen
Republic University Minmatar Republic
101
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 00:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:Nobody wants useless 500dps dragging with fleet waiting to get rat aggro once in a blue moon. There are plenty of armor fleets perfectly happy to have low SP chars flying sub-500 dps battleships. The only difference is they get rat aggro more than once in a blue moon. Come to think of it, a 500 dps CS on grid will be an improvement for those fleets. |
Traedar
InterStellar Trading Syndicate
16
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 01:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
ISK Per hour? You can't be serious.
With Mindlinks purchased from Concord LP, Incursion ISK per hour will go through the roof.
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Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
495
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Posted - 2013.08.15 01:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
Traedar wrote:ISK Per hour? You can't be serious.
With Mindlinks purchased from Concord LP, Incursion ISK per hour will go through the roof.
Well compared to the Two Bonus mindlinks that will be available through the Faction LP store they will be no more profitable than the Slot 6 non warp speed implant available currently.... or worthless to be more precise.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Traedar
InterStellar Trading Syndicate
16
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 02:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:Traedar wrote:ISK Per hour? You can't be serious.
With Mindlinks purchased from Concord LP, Incursion ISK per hour will go through the roof.
Well compared to the Two Bonus mindlinks that will be available through the Faction LP store they will be no more profitable than the Slot 6 non warp speed implant available currently.... or worthless to be more precise.
Yeah people will want them. Mining Foreman Mindlinks alone
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Goldiiee
Tax and War Haven
495
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 02:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Traedar wrote:Goldiiee wrote:Traedar wrote:ISK Per hour? You can't be serious.
With Mindlinks purchased from Concord LP, Incursion ISK per hour will go through the roof.
Well compared to the Two Bonus mindlinks that will be available through the Faction LP store they will be no more profitable than the Slot 6 non warp speed implant available currently.... or worthless to be more precise. Yeah people will want them. Mining Foreman Mindlinks alone Copied from Fozzie's F&I thread on Mindlinks,
Fozzie wrote: Adding normal T2 mindlinks (including mining mindlinks) to the Concord LP store for 20,000 Concord LP and 20m isk (~60-80m final product sale price).
Pretty sure my Toon is not going to retire to a comfy sunny beach planet selling Mindlinks at that price.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
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