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Egravant Alduin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2013.08.14 18:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since in EVE the weapon systems and fits that used for PVP are totally different than PVE and most PVE ships are useless against ships that come to kill them I suggest:
A button or something that lets you in some seconds according to ship and skills to replace your current weapon/fit setup with a different setup that it can actually fight and stand against a PVP ship.
I'm saying that cause in other MMOs if you have weapons you can fight if someone is trying to slaughter you .In this game simply you watch and even if you fight back with PVE setup the opponent will leave since no one in PVE setups has scramblers.
I suggest this so we can make this game better and even some people who enjoy PVE they can fight back a PVP ship that comes to destroy them.
PS I m not saying to use both just you could be able to swittch in space between setups. |
TehCloud
Carnivore Company 24eme Legion Etrangere
81
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Posted - 2013.08.14 18:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
No.
You choose to fly a PvE Ship, so you can be good at doing PvE Stuff. If you want to PvP with your ship, fit it accordingly. My Condor costs less than that module! |
Swiftstrike1
Interfector INC. Fade 2 Black
156
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Posted - 2013.08.14 18:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
TehCloud wrote:No.
You choose to fly a PvE Ship, so you can be good at doing PvE Stuff. If you want to PvP with your ship, fit it accordingly. ^This. Refitting in space is a game breaker. Fleet Bookmarks
Comets: the new Gravimetric scan sites |
Corun Deluse
Sky Fighters
5
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Posted - 2013.08.14 20:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Welcome to EVE, where every choice you make has consequences.
You CAN PvE with a combat-capable ship... we usually call this bait, works well. You're trading PvE ability for PvP ability.
If you failed to foresee PvP, learn from the experience so you can put up a better fight (or even win) next time or simply pay more attention to your surroundings. High security space isn't "Perfect" security space. The only place you're safe is docked. Once you undock, somebody can (and WILL if you give them a reason that offsets their costs) shoot you. |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3277
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Posted - 2013.08.14 20:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Egravant Alduin wrote:Since in EVE the weapon systems and fits that used for PVP are totally different than PVE and most PVE ships are useless against ships that come to kill them I suggest.
Citation needed
Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude. |
Egravant Alduin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2013.08.15 15:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm saying that if a ship has good weapon systems and fit why can't deal with a PVP ship?In other MMOs you can fight anywhere with your weapons.Also imagine that since EVE wants to be realistic this is not realistic at all.It's like saying we have a battleship in sea but when someones attacks it he won't be able to defend cause it's not ready for that.Doesn't make sense at all. |
Whitehound
1829
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Posted - 2013.08.15 15:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nothing stops you from fitting for PvP and using it for PvE. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
449
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Posted - 2013.08.15 16:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Egravant Alduin wrote:I'm saying that if a ship has good weapon systems and fit why can't deal with a PVP ship?In other MMOs you can fight anywhere with your weapons.Also imagine that since EVE wants to be realistic this is not realistic at all.It's like saying we have a battleship in sea but when someones attacks it he won't be able to defend cause it's not ready for that.Doesn't make sense at all. That actually makes loads of sense. If a ship was going out to sea to perform a land operation, it wouldn't necessarily be equipped to deal with aircraft. However, if they knew that aircraft might be a problem, they may ensure it is equipped to deal with them should the need arise, even though that may affect how much land operation stuff they can take. You can do the same. You can either equip some PvP stuff if you feel PvP is likely, or have an alt or friend nearby to jump in and give you a hand. Also, EVE doesn't want to be realistic, it wants to have real world meta gaming. there's a difference. If it was supposed to be realistic, then the spaceships wouldn't have the physics of submarines. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2541
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Posted - 2013.08.15 16:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Egravant Alduin wrote:I'm saying that if a ship has good weapon systems and fit why can't deal with a PVP ship?In other MMOs you can fight anywhere with your weapons.Also imagine that since EVE wants to be realistic this is not realistic at all.It's like saying we have a battleship in sea but when someones attacks it he won't be able to defend cause it's not ready for that.Doesn't make sense at all. That actually makes loads of sense. If a ship was going out to sea to perform a land operation, it wouldn't necessarily be equipped to deal with aircraft. However, if they knew that aircraft might be a problem, they may ensure it is equipped to deal with them should the need arise, even though that may affect how much land operation stuff they can take. You can do the same. You can either equip some PvP stuff if you feel PvP is likely, or have an alt or friend nearby to jump in and give you a hand. Also, EVE doesn't want to be realistic, it wants to have real world meta gaming. there's a difference. If it was supposed to be realistic, then the spaceships wouldn't have the physics of submarines.
The problem isn't you can't do PvE and PvP in a ship fit the same way, you can.
In places of high-activity, when I rat I do it in a PvP fit drake. In places of low-activity, I usually rat in a PvE fit Talos.
Fit for your neighborhood, rather than min-maxing your isk/hr. Alternatively, keep a POS in system and just swap ships as soon as a hostile enters system. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
340
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Posted - 2013.08.15 16:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alternative suggestion: massively overhaul PvE so that it 1) does not require absolutely useless otherwise fits to do 2) is much similar in terms of scale and difficulty to PvP (The actual fighting, not the gatecamps and metagaming, at least not until L5s or something) 3) cannot be formulaicly exploited- the fact that EVE Survival exists, and has carefully tabulated data on almost every mission and etc. is absolutely pathetic. It's fine for a site with hints and tricks to exist, but one that will detail in depth how literally every aspect of the mission can play out due to studying through near endless repetition... Problem detected.
If PvE becomes more like PvP, then you'll see more PvP fit ships doing them because that makes the most sense.
"PvE fit" is already pretty much a synonym for "failfit", once these changes are considered and implemented, that will be a fact, not an offhand joke. And it will not be a bad thing.
Other benefits: 1) People will stop saying "Well you have to take PvE into consideration too I mean we can't make this ship actually good because then it'd totally stomp everything else in PvE, so no it can't have PvP effectiveness too" (which is what I think is happening with the Nighthawk right now) 2) PvE will be FAR more interesting, because you are fighting intelligent AI that could actually give you a hard time depending on both how you fit your ship and the tactics you use. You don't just warp in, sit in an overtanked rattlesnake for two hours while your sentries slowly plink away at everything in a pocket and then move to the next one. 3) Mission botting ends. I don't know if it's a big deal now, but you will be entirely unable to bot against an intelligent group of opponents. |
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Egravant Alduin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2013.08.15 19:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
I agree with aglais i disagree with lucas.To lucas:Your example of air or land attack wasn't correct since in eve all ships are space ready for battle.So it supposed to fight the same good in any situation . Aglais has some really good points.The most I liked is PVE becoming more PVP. Would be so cool all ships were fitted for PVP and could do PVE since mybe a ship in PVE could leave the battlefield if you didn't had warp scrarmblers or something like that. |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2013.08.15 19:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
The request is identical to dual-spec for WoW. My vote is 'no' |
Egravant Alduin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2013.08.15 20:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
It has been asked again before.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=572307
I hope they listen to so many people that want this to be added |
hmskrecik
TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance
93
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Posted - 2013.08.15 20:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aglais wrote:Alternative suggestion: massively overhaul PvE It's very nice idea but I think it's not just massive task. It's impossible.
The issue is slightly off-topic in this thread so I'll be short. Take two things into consideration:
1. PVE content has to be alorithmically generated, scripted, etc. If it were totally random, it would be never balanced. If it were not quite random, it would have to be somehow predictable and repeatable, at least to some degree. And any such repeatability and predictability WILL be tabulated, min-maxed, exploited and so on. Please note that even Hulkageddon is a case of such exploitation since miners tend to repeat the same mistakes.
2. PVE fitting inadequacy, in my opinion, comes from countless game rebalancings which caused PVP doctrines shift. What you ask for is that CCP at the end of (re)balancing cycle, updated all PVE stuff to reflect new PVP tactics. And even assuming they can and want to do it, there's still a matter whether they do it right away, which basically means they have to be oracles and divine what are possible uses of new gear, or they wait to see what people actually do, which means the PVE lags behind like it does now. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
339
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Posted - 2013.08.15 20:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Roime wrote:Egravant Alduin wrote:Since in EVE the weapon systems and fits that used for PVP are totally different than PVE and most PVE ships are useless against ships that come to kill them I suggest. Citation needed
Hardly, unless you're playing reaaaaaaaaaally fast & loose with the term 'PvE ship'
The idea still sucks but this particular point is very true. |
Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
308
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Posted - 2013.08.15 20:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Roime wrote:Egravant Alduin wrote:Since in EVE the weapon systems and fits that used for PVP are totally different than PVE and most PVE ships are useless against ships that come to kill them I suggest. Citation needed
Ever fit a point to a PvE ship? Ever put a buffer tank on a PvE ship?
Before ASB's came along you would never fit a shield booster to a PvP ship.
The fitting methodology is completely different between PvP and PvE. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1525
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Posted - 2013.08.15 21:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Optimized PvE fits (in terms if isk/hour) suck for pvp, but many pvp fits can do pve (although they cannot maximize isk/hour like pve fits can). |
Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
135
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Posted - 2013.08.15 21:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
NO!
I was hoping for ship that will utilize missile & guns , and i see something like this :/ Phantasm - 150% speed bonus in cloak - 2LY jump range
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Zappity
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
278
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Posted - 2013.08.15 21:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
This is an MMO - people should be encouraged toward PvP. An optimal PvE fit should be good for PvP. Thus probably means changing the NPCs rather than ship modules. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
354
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Posted - 2013.08.15 21:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Care less about the ISK\Hour and more about the enjoyment. Choices = Consequences.
EVE is EVE it isn't like any other MMO, it's frigging tough, it requires intellect and research, knowledge transfer and PVE shouldn't be like PVP and never the twain shall meet.
If you want to PvP then fit for PvP and\or have some buddies on stand-by ready to pounce. If you want to PvE with maximum ISK\Hour but aren't willing to "be prepared" by fitting some Stabs\Whatever or having some buddies on standby then you risk your ship for that ISK\Hour ratio.
Again Risk = Reward. Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
217
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Posted - 2013.08.15 22:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:Roime wrote:Egravant Alduin wrote:Since in EVE the weapon systems and fits that used for PVP are totally different than PVE and most PVE ships are useless against ships that come to kill them I suggest. Citation needed Ever fit a point to a PvE ship? Ever put a buffer tank on a PvE ship? Before ASB's came along you would never fit a shield booster to a PvP ship. The fitting methodology is completely different between PvP and PvE.
bait domi says hi bait rattler and bait drake say hi too. hell, lots of bait ships around.
Also who says you need the point? Your enemy will have that. If he realizes the bear has some teeth and flies off, gratz, you ruined a gankers day. Call me an oddball but getting jumped, and living through it is still a good day. I have been jumped by tackle while out bearing, fought the tackle to the point they decided to gtfo over going boom and cleared out before his friends could jump into system and land in the area. Not a kill mail...but not a loss mail either. Ship + implants made it home, always a good thing in eve.
Also unless trying to solo hard pve content a large variety of pvp fits can work pve pretty decent. Will it be max isk per hour? Most likely no, may have to warp out once or twice if too hot rat wise. Is it isk still being made? Yes.
And part of pvp is learning when to not engage in it. I will tangle with another frigate if out in my wolf solo if I see him on d-scans and such. I see say a domi....well then its 2 ships passing in the night . Even if tthe domi truly solo the art and science of killing even drone cruisers like vexor I never fully grasped....and domi is jsut a bigger vexor. Now with tracking bonuses.
Bear can fit cloak, watch intel and safe u, etc. Same pvp tactics used by pvp ships. These aren't new concepts. In a rapier for example I'd keep cloak until I find a target not tard level of suicide to engage if bubble sitting showed up. trick taught by rapier pilots who tended to get more km's than lm's in rapiers.
And on fleet ops gone bad, it was bounce the safes until an attempt to gtfo could be made or by some miracle a counter hotdrop could be set up to reform on that to see if we could make the crap storm less crappy. Me going deer in the headlights to die like a muppet does me and my crew no good. |
Egravant Alduin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2013.08.16 08:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Most people like it and some don't like it which is accepted.A ship for battle is a ship for battle neither is PVP or PVE .A ready weapon ship should be able to fight at any circumstances .Not different fits for PVP different fits for PVE etc etc etc.Doesn't make sense at all. |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
173
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Posted - 2013.08.16 12:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Don't like this idea at all. It is incomplete.
I think the players should get a button that transforms the entire ship, fitting and all, to the most uberl33t PvE to the most uberl33t PvP and back again.
To balance it, this button would burn 1 strontium per switch. It would require a special transformation skill trained to 3 (about a day and a half. Finally, the module itself will be very expensive - about 1M ISK seems right.
/sarcasm Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues. |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
364
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Posted - 2013.08.16 13:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
Egravant Alduin wrote:Most people like it and some don't like it which is accepted.A ship for battle is a ship for battle neither is PVP or PVE .A ready weapon ship should be able to fight at any circumstances .Not different fits for PVP different fits for PVE etc etc etc.Doesn't make sense at all.
How do you even get to "most people like it"? You've had what, 8 people comment...most people who looked at it maybe but certainly not most of the EVE Online subscribers. Easy with the pat on the back there.
EDIT:
It does make sense:
Heres the EVE Equation:
Right tool for the right job -------------------------------------- = Decisions/Consequences. Risk = Reward Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Egravant Alduin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2013.08.16 13:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:Egravant Alduin wrote:Most people like it and some don't like it which is accepted.A ship for battle is a ship for battle neither is PVP or PVE .A ready weapon ship should be able to fight at any circumstances .Not different fits for PVP different fits for PVE etc etc etc.Doesn't make sense at all. How do you even get to "most people like it"? You've had what, 8 people comment...most people who looked at it maybe but certainly not most of the EVE Online subscribers. Easy with the pat on the back there. EDIT: It does make sense: Heres the EVE Equation: Right tool for the right job -------------------------------------- = Decisions/Consequences. Risk = Reward If they didn't like the idea then it wouldn't be in most common ideas. |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
9657
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Posted - 2013.08.16 14:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
SOMEONE KITING YOU? GOT AUTOCANNONS FITTED?
PRESS THE BUTTON! SWAP TO ARTILLERY! You may gain the knowledge, but you will lose your belief, with all its mystery and comfort. If there was proof, absolute and certain, there is an afterlife, why not quit this life, and be done with it? Ponder about these things all your life, and you're a philosopher. Compress these ponderings into a couple of pages, and you'll go mad. |
Acidictadpole
Reikoku The Retirement Club
21
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Posted - 2013.08.16 14:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sorry, no.
You fit out your ship according to a goal you're trying to accomplish. If you want it to do both PvE and PvP, you should fit it out like that from the beginning (and it'd likely be terrible). If someone catches you and forces you into a PvP encounter when you've fit for PvE, then he deserves to have the significant advantage. |
Blastil
The Reblier Alliance
97
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Posted - 2013.08.16 14:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Confirming that I PVE in a PVP fit ship... |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
3975
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Posted - 2013.08.16 14:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
I hope they don't. I would prefer to see PvE encouraging players to use "PvP fits". Note that regardless of fit, if you are jumped while engaged in PvE you are at a disadvantage because you already have NPCs shooting at you.
As an example of moving from "LOL PvE" to "PVP-ish PVE" have a look at the difference between missions and Incursions. Instead of a swarm of useless NPCs, have a smaller number of stronger NPCs.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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