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The Fukuzawa
New Eden Trade Group
5
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Posted - 2013.08.16 05:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
The title says it all, thanks for your opinions guys. |
Whitehound
1832
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Posted - 2013.08.16 06:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Wait for the rebalance. They are currently ok, but also too close to T1 battleships to be worth flying.
Until then it is like:
Amarr Paladin - good DPS within 40km (Scorch), with great omni tank, strong web bonus Caldari Golem - great damage projection over 200km with cruise missiles, good tank Gallente Kronos - great DPS at 5km (blasters) with good projection up to 100km (railguns), good tank, strong web bonus Minmatar Vargur - great DPS at 3km (ACs with changeable damage type), good speed, good tank
They all have the same drone abilities (75mbit), weakness in sensor strength and low eHP. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Telinturco
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.08.16 06:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pretty sure consensus opinion is the Golem, for everything except Sansha and Blood missions (The Paladin is best for those, hands down). |
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S The Predictables
98
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Posted - 2013.08.16 06:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Telinturco wrote:Pretty sure consensus opinion is the Golem, for everything except Sansha and Blood missions (The Paladin is best for those, hands down). Add the Drone missions that list too, most of the drones are weak against EM/Therm(and hence the lasers on the Paladin eat them alive)
Golem for everything else, personally I prefer the Torp Golem over the Cruise Golem, but that is more a personal preference thing. |
Whitehound
1832
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Posted - 2013.08.16 07:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Caldari 5 wrote:Telinturco wrote:Pretty sure consensus opinion is the Golem, for everything except Sansha and Blood missions (The Paladin is best for those, hands down). Add the Drone missions that list too, most of the drones are weak against EM/Therm(and hence the lasers on the Paladin eat them alive) Golem for everything else, personally I prefer the Torp Golem over the Cruise Golem, but that is more a personal preference thing. Actually, no. There is more than level 4 missions in EVE and even for those are faction and pirate ships better, because these have much higher eHP and therefore can fit more expensive modules, which you cannot do with marauders. Marauders get regularly ganked. All it needs is 10 players in cruisers and destroyers and a bit of help by NPCs, and they pop. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1361
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Posted - 2013.08.16 12:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Marauders are a really really stupid ship class
Were a horrible idea when they were released.
Paladin is sexy though, hope ccp can do something with it. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
hellcane
Never Back Down
83
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Posted - 2013.08.16 13:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Whitehound's first post sums up the marauders fairly well, except he doesn't understand huge falloff bonuses with the "great damage at 3km part" |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2013.08.16 13:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Golem #1 Vargur #2 Paladin #3 Kronos #4
IMHO. This opinion relies on the damage flexibility of Golem and Vargur plus their tank bonus. This allows them to single-handedly clear high end DED sites (10/10) with decent speed.
The Golem is also excellent at rolling sanctums flat, able to do it with a cheap microjump gank fit. The vargur is akin to mach but lacks severely in the speedy targeting and movement.
Kronos might have gotten an update in the form of drone damage mods, haven't checked. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5574
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Posted - 2013.08.16 14:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
hellcane wrote:Whitehound's first post sums up the marauders fairly well, except he doesn't understand huge falloff bonuses with the "great damage at 3km part" I assume he just means, that in actual engagement ranges that adaptable damage and high paper DPS quickly lose their theoretical edge over the competition. So to get the most out of this particular ship choice you need to be relatively close to the targets. Barrage can extend that to medium ranges, but it comes at the cost of damage and damage types. It's still not a bad choice, but when the ranges increase the great paper DPS quickly turns to nothing special when compared to the competition. |
Whitehound
1832
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Posted - 2013.08.16 14:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
hellcane wrote:Whitehound's first post sums up the marauders fairly well, except he doesn't understand huge falloff bonuses with the "great damage at 3km part" Do not worry, I know how falloff and alpha works. There are only better ships like the Paladin for stuff at 40km range. Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
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Steve Spooner
Mordu's Military Industrial Command Circle-Of-Two
112
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Posted - 2013.08.16 21:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Marauders are overshadowed by their superior pirate faction brethren because everyone gets a hard on for the vindi and machariel. |
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille Gallente Federation
115
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Posted - 2013.08.17 03:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Steve Spooner wrote:Marauders are overshadowed by their superior pirate faction brethren because everyone gets a hard on for the vindi and machariel.
QFT, relevant link included |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
327
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Posted - 2013.08.17 04:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Actually, no. There is more than level 4 missions in EVE and even for those are faction and pirate ships better, because these have much higher eHP and therefore can fit more expensive modules, which you cannot do with marauders. Marauders get regularly ganked. All it needs is 10 players in cruisers and destroyers and a bit of help by NPCs, and they pop.
if you are going to throw 10 people at it mid mission I'd guess most pirate ships would go down too. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
Orlacc
375
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Posted - 2013.08.17 05:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
They just feel..........unfinished. "Measure Twice, Cut Once." |
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
9
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Posted - 2013.08.17 08:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kronos is the best. They are all a waste of money but the Kronos at least requires Gallente BS 5. And if you ever want to 5 a BS skill, Gallente is the best bang for the buck. |
The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
144
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Posted - 2013.08.17 09:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
1. Paladin
It is fairly equal in power to it's faction counterpart(nightmare), does even a bit more dps(since fitting a T2 dps rig on the NM is a slot wast) got a very good omni resist profile, can fit tachs, got a far better cap than other amarr BS hulls and is the premier armor Incursion ship, by combining 90% webs, rr and cap transfers, lasers and a resist profile that allows you to fit 1-2 more damage mods.
2. Vargur
It is a fairly good ship on it's own, the main problem is just that the Machairal does everything the Vargur does a bit better outside of extreme heavy active tanking. If you fit it and use it like a mach(low tank, mwd) the lower speed and bigger sig often make the tank look worse instead of better. For Incursions it is crippled by not being able to fit 1400mm properly, the laughable lock speed compared to a mach(what is one of the most important things for a 1400mm ship in a contest, get the volley on the target before others do) and that shield RR modules take to much CPU.
3. Golem
The main problem is ECM, I would never use it against guristas, since the combination of ultra long lock time and often getting jammed is quite a pita. Outside of this, it lacks speed and another damage application bonus for torps, currently it is mostly a cruise missile platform. The painter bonus combined with the fact that you can fit 3-4 painters on it, on the other hand make it a fairly good one. It is crippled in Incursions because missiles will cost you contests and similar to the vargur it has big issues fitting shield transporters.
4. Kronos
It got only mediocre dps compared to other rail/sentry platforms(because it can only use 3 sentry drones instead of 5), however the 90% web is quite useful for a rail/sentry platform, especially if you mission in minmatar space, where you often have to deal with targets under 18km. For Incursions it is ok, most gangs use light or medium drones anyway and it can often fit a extra damage mod or T2 damage rig for armor gangs, so compared to the Vindicator the actually dps figures are not that much different(having a bit cargo to carry lots of spare fitting, ammo and stuff like ore and having 2 more RR and a spare cap transfer can be very handy, I actually like it more than the Vindi for that reasons). Most crippling thing is the lock speed compared to the vindicator for VGs at least, however it is ok as a rail sniper. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
81
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Posted - 2013.08.17 11:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Paladin is sexy though, hope ccp can do something with it.
It needs a new model. Model used is designed for Apoc's 8 guns. With only 4 guns it looks stupid.
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The Djego
Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
145
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Posted - 2013.08.17 12:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tobias Hareka wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Paladin is sexy though, hope ccp can do something with it. It needs a new model. Model used is designed for Apoc's 8 guns. With only 4 guns it looks stupid.
You can place all 4 guns on the turret rack in the middle, it looks very cool that way. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
327
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Posted - 2013.08.18 02:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
The Djego wrote:You can place all 4 guns on the turret rack in the middle, it looks very cool that way.
tractors in the first 2 slots, guns in the next 4, gets them nicely grouped up in the middle. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
2195
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Posted - 2013.08.18 22:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:The Djego wrote:You can place all 4 guns on the turret rack in the middle, it looks very cool that way. tractors in the first 2 slots, guns in the next 4, gets them nicely grouped up in the middle.
And is far from optimal for overheating purposes - not that you do it a lot on a pve ship, but I'd still prefer better heat distribution over aesthetics (as you might have guessed) - but to each his own.
As for the topic: I have all 4 of them for collecting purposes, but given the fact that the characters they're on have all BS V, I don't see much point in using them over their pirate faction cousins, especially as I don't salvage...
Might take another look after their long overdue rebalance, but considering what CCP did to HACs, I wont hold my breath hoping they become any more desirable than they're now. You know... morons. |
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velox
Darkside Gardens
19
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Posted - 2013.08.18 23:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
The Kronos is a perfect job for the purpose of missioning which was the idea behind Mauraders.
I have max skills for the ship and run with rails. I have a centus A large armor repair and everything else is a t2 fit + in the lows I have 4 fed mag stabs and then 2 hardners mission specific.
With t2 ammo and a sensor booster II I can hit at a range starting at 15km and running to 170km.
There are a few missions like 'mordus headhunters' where you enter the second room and you have spawns at 50km and some at 120km+
Damage is excellent frigates dissapear with single shots I end up with most engagements are between 30km to 55 km which falls within Antimatters hotspot in railguns.
07:48:17 Combat 6242 to Core Rear Admiral - 425mm Railgun II - Smashes
Rate of fire is 5.2 seconds I clear missions so quickly is crazy.
Until I had the Kronos I ran a Navy Megathron which is very close to the damage output but the nicest bonus is the ability to lock 10 targets. When you pop them as quickly as you do with the railguns its handy not to run out of free targeting slots.
Advantages over the golem is speed and range. If im salvaging I run a second screen with an alt in a noctis so I never need to collect anything with the maurader. Golem pilots still have to wait for missle flight time and then confirmation of the kill before switching target some golem loadouts rely on target painters to hit the small stuff.
I have seen fast mission runs on youtube with a golem and the kronos is no slower.
At the end of the day the biggest differences to these ships come from your skills selection and how well invested you are in them. Minimum skilled mauraders will never compete with well skilled faction bs's.
my 2 isk
V.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
327
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Posted - 2013.08.19 18:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
gaping explosive hole, with a billion+ in potential loot, no thanks, not the ship for me! and anyways in a golem with 2x speed rigs I can hit at 100km+ before the next volley launches. and with auto targeting missiles I don't even need to lock stuff.
as far as speed goes the nightmare is pretty much faster than the nightmare, I just like the paladin because with 3 cap mods/rigs it will effectively permarun (used to be 4, yay odyssey!), good for lazy face rolling of missions. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
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