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HiddenPorpoise
BG-1 The Craniac
53
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Posted - 2013.08.19 12:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
I think citing The Mitten is the local Godwin's Law. |
TheBlueMonkey
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
490
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Posted - 2013.08.19 12:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
I've got a different idea.
Make FW sites have a warp inhibitor effect meaning that once you're in there, you can't warp out (in a ship)until the site is completed.
That's how I'd solve the problem, make it so it's a commitment like a cyno. There's no "oh I didn't mean to, can I get a do over" with cynos short of shooting the ship that created it.
It'd make it more thunderdomey too :)
I'd also change the way that LP is given out\how long they take when multiple people are in there.
1 person in a site they get 100% of the LP and it takes 100% of the time. 2 people in there it takes x% of the LP and it takes x% of the time.
More people in there, less time it takes but overall they get less LP. Geer that towards an optimal LPph being something like 3/4 people on the small ones and you're encouraging flying together too. |
HiddenPorpoise
BG-1 The Craniac
53
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Posted - 2013.08.19 12:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
TheBlueMonkey wrote:I've got a different idea. No.
On top of making attacking your enemy while they do sites futile it's an inelegant and annoying thing to deal with. |
Grunnax Aurelius
The Horny Heron's
168
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Posted - 2013.08.19 12:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
TheBlueMonkey wrote:I've got a different idea.
Make FW sites have a warp inhibitor effect meaning that once you're in there, you can't warp out (in a ship)until the site is completed.
That's how I'd solve the problem, make it so it's a commitment like a cyno. There's no "oh I didn't mean to, can I get a do over" with cynos short of shooting the ship that created it.
It'd make it more thunderdomey too :)
I'd also change the way that LP is given out\how long they take when multiple people are in there.
1 person in a site they get 100% of the LP and it takes 100% of the time. 2 people in there it takes x% of the LP and it takes x% of the time.
More people in there, less time it takes but overall they get less LP. Geer that towards an optimal LPph being something like 3/4 people on the small ones and you're encouraging flying together too.
Love the idea, but make the warp inhibitant only reach 100km of the node, so that those who are not FW are not trapped forever, so anyone who is there that wants to warp out has to burn 100km away from the node, it will encourage people to fit combat ships and fight for their LP, and not be lazy fuks who just farm it by sitting around on their ass. I believe you have to work to earn, regardless of what the work is, you should not be able to sit around and farm high amounts of isk by doing next to nothing. Two Teir Carriers-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=207604&find=unread |
Grunnax Aurelius
The Horny Heron's
168
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Posted - 2013.08.19 12:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:TheBlueMonkey wrote:I've got a different idea. No. On top of making attacking your enemy while they do sites futile it's an inelegant and annoying thing to deal with.
Says the high sec carebear Two Teir Carriers-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=207604&find=unread |
TheBlueMonkey
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
491
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Posted - 2013.08.19 13:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Grunnax Aurelius wrote: Love the idea, but make the warp inhibitant only reach 100km of the node, so that those who are not FW are not trapped forever, so anyone who is there that wants to warp out has to burn 100km away from the node, it will encourage people to fit combat ships and fight for their LP, and not be lazy fuks who just farm it by sitting around on their ass. I believe you have to work to earn, regardless of what the work is, you should not be able to sit around and farm high amounts of isk by doing next to nothing.
Good point, although rather than 100km it should be worked based on targeting distances. Rather than leaving it open for people to sit just out side the warp inhibitor and snipe people as they came in.
HiddenPorpoise wrote: No.
On top of making attacking your enemy while they do sites futile it's an inelegant and annoying thing to deal with.
How does it make attacking your enemy futile?
1) warp to gate 2) directional scan gate 3) see 4 frigates in the site but no logi frigs 4) get 2 logi frigs and a few friends 5) jump into site, kill other fleet, finish site, make LP
Alternate 5) die gloriously and enjoy the good fights. |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Stay Frosty.
85
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Posted - 2013.08.19 18:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
While I do think some change for this issue is better than no change, here is a small proposal to help fix the fairly big FW farmer problem, but one that does not involve an artificial change to FW plexes to not allow ships with warp core stabs into them (a change that I would be in favor of as opposed to no change at all, though).
The proposal is simple: an overheated scram/disruptor triples its warp scramble strength. This is more "organic" in that it adds to the game's meta without simply banning certain mods in certain places etc. Yet it also gives people a way to temporarily fight ships with warp core stabs. (This also makes smarting-bombing BS camps more vulnerable.)
If that is too meta-shifting, there are other more organic solutions CCP could implement (there are a lot of proposals on FW floating around that would lessen the farming problem). |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
10
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Posted - 2013.08.19 19:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
1. Timer Rollback 2. Number of Rats in each plex based on Tier level of system (+1 rat per level or something) 3. Rats in sites attack everyone that isn't in their faction navy (including "neutrals") 4. Get rid of "allied" militia (bye bye cross plexing & using overview to mess with newbros) |
Onomerous
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
281
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Posted - 2013.08.19 19:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
WCS suck but deal with it. The snowflakes in FW need to learn to deal with it the way the rest of have learned. At least you didn't suggest 'pirates can't enter plexes' for an idea... |
Grunnax Aurelius
The Horny Heron's
168
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Posted - 2013.08.19 20:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
Onomerous wrote:WCS suck but deal with it. The snowflakes in FW need to learn to deal with it the way the rest of have learned. At least you didn't suggest 'pirates can't enter plexes' for an idea...
Because im a pirate maybe? Two Teir Carriers-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=207604&find=unread |
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1534
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Posted - 2013.08.19 20:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:Onomerous wrote:WCS suck but deal with it. The snowflakes in FW need to learn to deal with it the way the rest of have learned. At least you didn't suggest 'pirates can't enter plexes' for an idea... Because im a pirate maybe? Put an extra scram in your cargohold and refit as needed. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1598
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
The problem with this thread is that it assumed that the majority of FW people are more interesting in fighting than making cheap, easy ISK.
Did you forget which game you're playing? Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1534
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Posted - 2013.08.19 22:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:The problem with this thread is that it assumed that the majority of FW people are more interesting in fighting than making cheap, easy ISK. Did you forget which game you're playing? Go to populated systems and you'll get plenty of fights. |
Grunnax Aurelius
The Horny Heron's
169
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Posted - 2013.08.20 01:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:The problem with this thread is that it assumed that the majority of FW people are more interesting in fighting than making cheap, easy ISK. Did you forget which game you're playing?
Last time I checked EvE is not supposed to be easy when it comes to isk, hence forth ships with WCS should not be able to enter FW sites, and same for ships with a passive WC strength. Two Teir Carriers-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=207604&find=unread |
Azn Assassin
Dissidence Dawn C.L.O.N.E.
0
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Posted - 2013.08.20 22:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
I'd agree completely that cloaking and both warp core stabs shouldn't be allowed or severely diminished in faction warfare.. You can literally started a toon and in one day make over a billion isk just by fitting stabs and running plexes and all you need to do is orbit buttons an get out when people come in. This needs to be fixed, faction warfare is just that, warfare it isn't meant for care bears it is meant for player vs player combat.
My solution would either be make it so everything but covert ops cloaks don't work in sites. (Would eliminate a lot of the cloaky hiders). The second part of that would be making equipping stabs not allow you into sites.
A second solution would be changing warp core stabs making it so they increase the time it takes for your ship to warp. For example each stab increases the time it takes you to go into warp by 2 seconds. That way if you have a ship equipped with 4 stabs it means they will have to wait 8 seconds to go into warp which with a lot of those ships would give plenty of time to kill them since many of them do not fit tanks. |
Bakuhz
The Horny Heron's
111
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Posted - 2013.08.20 23:13:00 -
[46] - Quote
Azn Assassin wrote:I'd agree completely that cloaking and both warp core stabs shouldn't be allowed or severely diminished in faction warfare.. You can literally started a toon and in one day make over a billion isk just by fitting stabs and running plexes and all you need to do is orbit buttons an get out when people come in. This needs to be fixed, faction warfare is just that, warfare it isn't meant for care bears it is meant for player vs player combat.
My solution would either be make it so everything but covert ops cloaks don't work in sites. (Would eliminate a lot of the cloaky hiders). The second part of that would be making equipping stabs not allow you into sites.
A second solution would be changing warp core stabs making it so they increase the time it takes for your ship to warp. For example each stab increases the time it takes you to go into warp by 2 seconds. That way if you have a ship equipped with 4 stabs it means they will have to wait 8 seconds to go into warp which with a lot of those ships would give plenty of time to kill them since many of them do not fit tanks.
i support this idea http://tnoh.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=576554
We are stil looking for Manticore Pilot's can you fly one and are interested to do more with covert operations Contact me for more info |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
582
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 23:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
Grunnax Aurelius wrote: Last time I checked EvE is not supposed to be easy when it comes to isk, hence forth ships with WCS should not be able to enter FW sites, and same for ships with a passive WC strength.
Problem of WCS is not inside plexes.
In FW plexes you always see who is coming simply d-scan the gate. And can always decide to run away or to stay and fight. This is a fine feauture, promote solo/smal gang fight and prompt people to be reasonable and not to blob: if I'm plexing in a T1 frigate and you really want a fight then you know if you come with a gang of 5 destroyers you are not going to have any fight.
This is a direct consequence of gated plexes, and is a good one.
WCS unbalancement is not inside the plexes (if one want to run will runn anyway when see you coming) that they allow to operate in FW regions to move from plex to plex, system to system with no risk.
Beside WCS should be nerfed in general, should be a viable option only for traveling fits, just making them offlining any offensive module if you fit a WCS or something so.
Mostly now, since we got a new T! frigate with a base +2 sensor strenght
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Caleb Seremshur
Angel of War
57
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Posted - 2013.08.21 04:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Onslaughtor wrote:As a pirate I went through facwar today looking for some small ship action. Every site I came to either the person ran or had stabs. I approve this message.
Guys like you don't really "get it" do you.
Complexes aren't exactly about doing pvp. They're about low-risk LP generation.
I would argue there are too many systems to plex and that promotes farmers as they can each have their own little hideyhole in the middle of nowhere. If we cut the number of plex systems to say... 80 per zone instead of 100 you would see an increase in fighting by necessity as farmers now actually find a reason to start competing. Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013 |
Yakima DWB
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.08.21 04:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
Instead of not being able to enter with stabs, why not just render them useless while in the site? That way you aren't keeping anyone out except the ship restrictions, and can still catch people that use them once inside. Seems like it would be easier to put it into code. That, and it will be funny as hell for a couple weeks while people who don't watch forums or read patch notes figure it out the hard way.... |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1085
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 05:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote: Guys like you don't really "get it" do you.
Complexes aren't exactly about doing pvp.
Funny, since that's exactly what CCP purports that they are for. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
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Caleb Seremshur
Angel of War
57
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Posted - 2013.08.21 06:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Yeah well 'emergent gameplay' and all that crap. Turns out they aren't working as intended. Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013 |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
348
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Posted - 2013.08.21 06:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
Complaining you need a niche fit (or two people) to counter a niche fit that, at worst annoys you seems like a pointless complaint. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
289
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 07:08:00 -
[53] - Quote
Grunnax Aurelius wrote: Ty for pointing it out, post edited.
Yeah cause im totally going to fit a 3 point scram worth like 180+ mil on a 10mil or so frigate
Fit 2 T2 scrams?
Less range, but You're flying something fast and tackly anyways, no? There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1537
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 13:02:00 -
[54] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Caleb Seremshur wrote: Guys like you don't really "get it" do you. Complexes aren't exactly about doing pvp.
Funny, since that's exactly what CCP purports that they are for. Yeah I was gonna say that my 500 kills last month (almost all in plexes) beg to differ with Caleb. |
Solutio Letum
Terpene Conglomerate
170
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 18:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Did you guys ever heard of Dual Scrams? |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1088
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 18:09:00 -
[56] - Quote
Solutio Letum wrote:Did you guys ever heard of Dual Scrams?
Sure have. I fit them all the time along with my ship scanner, so that I can find just the right stabbed up farmers. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
298
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Posted - 2013.08.21 18:47:00 -
[57] - Quote
Just make it so having a WCS is like being cloaked for the purpose of running the timer down, i.e. you can't. If you still want to sit in a plex in a stabbed frigate, that's your prerogative, but you're not going to get paid for it.
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Complaining you need a niche fit (or two people) to counter a niche fit that, at worst annoys you seems like a pointless complaint.
Plex farmers have significant knock-on effects that pretty solidly justified people wanting them gone. Stabbed frigate are just a particularly annoying symptom. |
loading file
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.09.25 22:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
i approve this message ! |
Jovran
HARD KNOCKS CORP LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
15
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:25:00 -
[59] - Quote
WCS whining threads are the faction warfare equivalent of crying about AFK cloaking... |
Caleb Seremshur
Angel of War Game 0f Tears
94
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:First of all i believe FW is supposed to be what it is, a way to make ISK / LP though PvP, but a fair majority of FW pilots don't PvP in the sites they wish to capture they fit Warp Core Stabilizers and warp out as soon as someone is on grid or they get tackled. This is counter productive to what FW is supposed to be. I had a small chat with a random in local, who had a very good idea to prevent the use of Warp Core Stabilizers in FW, here is the following convo:
[06:14:47] Grunnax Aurelius > WTB FW Pilots with t e s t i c l e s [06:15:05] Yash Anub > they should just make it that you can't enter a site with stabs on your ship [06:15:13] Grunnax Aurelius > ^^^^ [06:15:47] Yash Anub > it'll make them want to fight for their LP...:P [06:17:02] Grunnax Aurelius > yep [06:17:25] Yash Anub > or at least make them pay attetion to their D-scan more lol
Basically the proposal is, ships may not enter FW sites with Warp Core Stabilizers equipped, and as for Large sites, prevent warp to location when Warp Core Stabilizers are fit.
EDIT: Also prevent ships that have passive warp core strength.
Just one problem: CCP are using FW as an isk sink.
And they have no intention of changing that. 2 years of this and they haven't done anything? Don't you get the hint (working as intended)?
This is the result of a totally ****** economic model. The game's income generation is so irredeemably broken that **** like this is an acceptable way of bandaiding the problem. Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013 |
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