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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4241
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Posted - 2013.08.29 13:30:00 -
[271] - Quote
That guy who shoots cyno ships is defeating us, EVE working as intended. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Renzler Industries Northern Associates.
191
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Posted - 2013.08.29 13:34:00 -
[272] - Quote
embrel wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:...Raiding is finding where your enemy is not deployed, or weakest and destroying all their shite making them weaker...
See my point?
I understand what you are saying, it is the implementation that I believe is flawed. A small groups of ships should not be able to disrupt an entire 15,000 payer empire... that just isn't practical game play. why not? Such things have worked in the real world in the past. (yeah I did notice it's a game) Real world... 6th Fleet is always active... no down time. The game isn't like that.
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Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
728
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Posted - 2013.08.29 13:39:00 -
[273] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Harry Forever wrote:I searched the whole map, for sure hundreds of jumps in the last week, if not thousands, if there is a spot where a fight is on the map, you might go there but its over before you arrive... this **** happens day by day, so you endup camping a gate like all the other players out there, you wait for 1-2 hours, I did wait even longer, thats the only way to get a kill... you might join a corp and beg to god they start a war once a year, however as there is a maximum of 1 fight per day in nullsec, it would be like a loto jackpot to choose the right corp to assure you get into that fight
you also missunderstand that those fights are not spread over the whole day, you would need to hit the right time when those fights are happening, they take place in 1-2 hours each day, you never find one, its impossible because the map shows the fights delayed, its **** ok, you don't seem to be getting it, so I'll say it as clearly as possible. GO TO 1DH-SX. Here, I'll even give you breakdown of kill by hour so you can see the hot spots: 10:005 09:002 08:002 07:000 06:000 05:007 04:007 03:0018 02:0012 01:007 00:006 23:009 22:0015 21:004 20:004 19:0057 18:0022 17:006 16:008 15:005 14:004 If you are too ******** to find kills in a warzone, then quitting EVE might not be enough.
oh boy, I have to set the alarm clock to see those 5 kills... this is epic ... |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11433
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Posted - 2013.08.29 13:45:00 -
[274] - Quote
embrel wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:...Raiding is finding where your enemy is not deployed, or weakest and destroying all their shite making them weaker...
See my point?
I understand what you are saying, it is the implementation that I believe is flawed. A small groups of ships should not be able to disrupt an entire 15,000 payer empire... that just isn't practical game play. why not? Such things have worked in the real world in the past. (yeah I did notice it's a game)
No they haven't
1 Kings 12:11
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4243
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Posted - 2013.08.29 13:46:00 -
[275] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:embrel wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:...Raiding is finding where your enemy is not deployed, or weakest and destroying all their shite making them weaker...
See my point?
I understand what you are saying, it is the implementation that I believe is flawed. A small groups of ships should not be able to disrupt an entire 15,000 payer empire... that just isn't practical game play. why not? Such things have worked in the real world in the past. (yeah I did notice it's a game) Real world... 6th Fleet is always active... no down time. The game isn't like that. AFk cloakers can play eve unless the world is down. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
496
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Posted - 2013.08.29 13:46:00 -
[276] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:oh boy, I have to set the alarm clock to see those 5 kills... this is epic So you're not awake during any of the 22 hours that have kills?
This is too stupid even for you Harry. 0/10 The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Renzler Industries Northern Associates.
191
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Posted - 2013.08.29 13:47:00 -
[277] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: AFk cloakers can play eve unless the world is down.
AFK Coalkers make very poor defenders.
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
496
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Posted - 2013.08.29 13:48:00 -
[278] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Firstly the Fountain thing was a result of another flawed mechanic - being able to solo steal and disband an alliance. Are you talking about the recent fountain war? That had nothing to do with stealing and disbanding an alliance. TEST held fountain, CFC attacked fountain, CFC won. The only alliance disband that happened during that happened to N3, miles away from fountain and wasn't a CFC thing.
Infinity Ziona wrote:As for the POCO, no one is suggesting it has the HP of a battleship, but they should not be functionally immune to small gang med gang raiding which they currently are, as are other assets in empty systems all over nullsec.
As for stationing people in systems, not necessarily required, but having a defense force nearby that can mobilize to kill raiders should be possible for a large alliance. If you can't manage that with a 10000 man alliance then you should lose those assets. And at the end of the day, its only a 100 million isk module. What Yeep is pointing out, is that keeping a fleet nearby is not a cheap thing to do. If that were to be required for every POCO, then null sec PI would need to be worth a LOT more to be worth it. If any idiot could destroy it with a spare 10 minutes, we'd just not bother with PI. It's really not that big for income.
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:Oh, I see. Lucas Kell, advocate for and defender of "the little guy". Is that why you've been running around on your alt(s) ganking noob mining barges? Are they somehow hurting "the little guy"? Are their Retreivers and Mackinaws a threat to "the little guy"? GTFOOH
Tell me what "little guy" has a POS up in the heart of sovereign null sec. Tell me what "little guy" built Mittaningrad. Tell me why this "little guy" needs to be able to repel all of the firepower in the entire galaxy for almost TWO DAYS, and tell me what he's going to do against that firepower once the reinforcement timer is up on his small tower.
Some stuff you can't do alone. Some stuff you SHOULDN'T BE ABLE to do alone, like hold multiple systems hostage for days without any effort or input on your part when there is a determined force working against you. I never said that I'm for the little guy. But this guy is trying to claim that POCOs are too hard to take down, and they should be made weaker so the little guy can have his chance to shine. But really this is a load of bull. He doesn't want to place a POCO, he just wants to be able to randomly destroy them. And making them easier to kill would affect small groups in wormholes a LOT more than it would affect a null alliance. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
728
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Posted - 2013.08.29 13:53:00 -
[279] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:embrel wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:...Raiding is finding where your enemy is not deployed, or weakest and destroying all their shite making them weaker...
See my point?
I understand what you are saying, it is the implementation that I believe is flawed. A small groups of ships should not be able to disrupt an entire 15,000 payer empire... that just isn't practical game play. why not? Such things have worked in the real world in the past. (yeah I did notice it's a game) No they haven't
yes they have ... |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Renzler Industries Northern Associates.
191
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:00:00 -
[280] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:...yes they have... Cool... history.
I can think of a couple that might apply, but would you mind listing which ones you are referencing?
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
496
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:01:00 -
[281] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Harry Forever wrote:...yes they have... Cool... history. I can think of a couple that might apply, but would you mind listing which ones you are referencing? Don't challenge Harry on history! He's still in school so he'll just ask his teacher. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4243
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:04:00 -
[282] - Quote
EVE Online history. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
fattymic fatfat
Blackened Skies
1
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:05:00 -
[283] - Quote
for the ammount of people who play eve these days compared to the old days. eve isn't big enough. it doesn't feel vast and endless to me anymore. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1167
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 14:15:00 -
[284] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:embrel wrote:Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:...Raiding is finding where your enemy is not deployed, or weakest and destroying all their shite making them weaker...
See my point?
I understand what you are saying, it is the implementation that I believe is flawed. A small groups of ships should not be able to disrupt an entire 15,000 payer empire... that just isn't practical game play. why not? Such things have worked in the real world in the past. (yeah I did notice it's a game) No they haven't
Tell that to anyone older than 80 in your country.
If Turing had not cracked the Enigma code, the German U-Boats would have caused far more damage to the Allied war effort than they did. (which was still enormous) Canada at the end of the war had the third largest navy in the world. The vast bulk of that was corvettes and convoy escort ships, designed to keep the wolf-packs at bay, and by the end, hunt them down, in the North Atlantic.
Prior to the Enigma being cracked (after one was captured), the wolf-packs were starving the U.K.
Or perhaps we could look into the absolute panic the Royal Navy got into over the thought of the Bismarck and the Prinz Eugen raiding the sea lanes. Sinking the Hood was not the impetus to find and kill the Bismarck. It was the thought of how much damage those ships would do in cutting off supplies to Great Britain. (BTW, if anyone is interested, read up how the original plan the German naval leaders wanted was for the 2 Bismarck class BS's and the 2 Scharnhorst class battlecruisers to sortie out together and rain down hell on the shipping lanes.)
So yeah, in real life, a small group of ships, has, and will again, disrupt much much larger groups of ships and people.
The same thing happens every day in Eve. Ask freighter pilots who use the Uedama or Niarja lanes, or who knows how many capital pilots after they have felt the joy of a PL or BL supercap hotdrop. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
405
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:20:00 -
[285] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:Through what evidence or reasoning did you arrive at that conclusion? Would it be possible for any counterevidence or counterargument to sway you? Show me a customs office that doesn't have 10 million shield, 500,000 armor and I might be swayed. So, you do not have any evidence or reasoning to present (Or fail to present it, same thing in essence). And what you want from a counterargument is not just unreasonable but impossible.
I'd have no problem discussing these issues and enlightening you to some of the common mistakes you're making, but with this information it's safe to say that you are not going to learn because you will not learn. Like Harry Forever, the OP, and some of the "people" in here, you don't want to know what you're talking about.
Have you heard about the metaphor of playing chess with a pigeon? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4243
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 14:22:00 -
[286] - Quote
Yummy poco ehp There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
JinSanJong
Brethren Holdings Brethren.
25
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:23:00 -
[287] - Quote
for god sake to comparing real life to a fantasy space game. its just not the same, really, it isnt. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4243
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:24:00 -
[288] - Quote
JinSanJong wrote:for god sake to comparing real life to a fantasy space game. its just not the same, really, it isnt. Shut up, EVE is real. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
JinSanJong
Brethren Holdings Brethren.
25
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:28:00 -
[289] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:JinSanJong wrote:for god sake to comparing real life to a fantasy space game. its just not the same, really, it isnt. Shut up, EVE is real.
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Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
462
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:29:00 -
[290] - Quote
JinSanJong wrote:for god sake to comparing real life to a fantasy space game. its just not the same, really, it isnt.
If a game doesn't have a coerlation to real life in some way, it is probaly too abstract or its probaly boring.
I mean if you can't relate to it with your understanding of real life, then how are you going to understand it.
I mean the EVE market kind of works like the real world stock market in some respects. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
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SmokinDank
Horizon Research Group
65
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:31:00 -
[291] - Quote
I dunno about the rest of you but I totally relate to spaceships that can move faster than light ... |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
332
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:44:00 -
[292] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:Through what evidence or reasoning did you arrive at that conclusion? Would it be possible for any counterevidence or counterargument to sway you? Show me a customs office that doesn't have 10 million shield, 500,000 armor and I might be swayed. So, you do not have any evidence or reasoning to present (Or fail to present it, same thing in essence). And what you want from a counterargument is not just unreasonable but impossible. I'd have no problem discussing these issues and enlightening you to some of the common mistakes you're making, but with this information it's safe to say that you are not going to learn because you will not learn. Like Harry Forever, the OP, and some of the "people" in here, you don't want to know what you're talking about. Have you heard about the metaphor of playing chess with a pigeon? I have provided plenty of reasoning. I don't need to provide evidence that a POCO costs 100 million isk and has 10 million HP. It does. If you don't know that then nothing I can do about it.
My argument is that alliance infrastructure should be defended by the alliance, not by massive amounts of HP. Its unreasonable to want to have all your infrastructure functionally indestructible to small and medium gangs.
Plenty of meat there for you to make a counter argument, do you have one that is reasonable and not "we fail at recruiting people from different time zones so we should have 48 hours of notice" or "why should we defend our space, it costs too much".
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4244
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:47:00 -
[293] - Quote
SmokinDank wrote:I dunno about the rest of you but I totally relate to spaceships that can move faster than light Warp drive active ! There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
325
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Posted - 2013.08.29 15:02:00 -
[294] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: I have provided plenty of reasoning. I don't need to provide evidence that a POCO costs 100 million isk and has 10 million HP. It does. If you don't know that then nothing I can do about it.
To put a POCO into reinforced means doing 7.5 million damage. If you bring a small gang of 10 people in 800 dps ships (not unreasonable if you know you're shooting POCOs) you can do that damage in 15 minutes. Thats 2.5 hours of total effort and in return nobody can do PI on that planet for 24 hours. That sounds to me like the effort ratio is skewed massively in favour of the attackers right now. Why should it get easier?
Infinity Ziona wrote: Plenty of meat there for you to make a counter argument, do you have one that is reasonable and not "we fail at recruiting people from different time zones so we should have 48 hours of notice" or "why should we defend our space, it costs too much".
The issue is not absolute cost, the issue is cost relative to just doing all your business in highsec where you actually are protected by game mechanics. If a 10 man gang can destroy a POCO in 5-10 minutes you're going to need a standing fleet of ~15 people per constellation you want to do PI in. If those 15 people could be making 50m ISK/hr elsewhere then PI in 0.0 constellations needs to be worth at least 18 billion more isk per day than PI in highsec otherwise people just won't bother. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4244
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Posted - 2013.08.29 15:05:00 -
[295] - Quote
Sounds like we should be shooting more pocos. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
496
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Posted - 2013.08.29 15:23:00 -
[296] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: So yeah, in real life, a small group of ships, has, and will again, disrupt much much larger groups of ships and people.
The same thing happens every day in Eve. Ask freighter pilots who use the Uedama or Niarja lanes, or who knows how many capital pilots after they have felt the joy of a PL or BL supercap hotdrop.
So if small groups already can affect the large groups, nothing needs to be changed to allow these small groups to have that effect. Thanks for the clarity. /thread. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
406
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Posted - 2013.08.29 15:25:00 -
[297] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Sounds like we should be shooting more pocos. Let's shoot all POCO's in lowsec. And NPC Sov.
And then invade highsec to shoot ALL the POS'es. |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
728
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Posted - 2013.08.29 15:28:00 -
[298] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Harry Forever wrote:...yes they have... Cool... history. I can think of a couple that might apply, but would you mind listing which ones you are referencing?
I think some people just like beeing deaf and blind, thats the reason why its happening ... |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
496
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Posted - 2013.08.29 15:30:00 -
[299] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I have provided plenty of reasoning. I don't need to provide evidence that a POCO costs 100 million isk and has 10 million HP. It does. If you don't know that then nothing I can do about it.
My argument is that alliance infrastructure should be defended by the alliance, not by massive amounts of HP. Its unreasonable to want to have all your infrastructure functionally indestructible to small and medium gangs.
Plenty of meat there for you to make a counter argument, do you have one that is reasonable and not "we fail at recruiting people from different time zones so we should have 48 hours of notice" or "why should we defend our space, it costs too much". it IS defended by the alliance members. It doesn't shoot down invaders on its own. The EHP and timers simply stop it being blapped in 5 minutes by a couple of randoms. All groups of players take time to form up, and you must know that even if you attack in a staging system, it wouldn't be quick enough to stop even a moderate sized force smashing through 15m HP. But from what you are saying, you clearly don't want the alliance to have to defend. You want to be able to cause damage and run away before the alliance gets there.
Oh, and 15m HP is in NO WAY indestructible. Set up a small tower and see how long it takes a small group to come and blap it to pieces. POCOs only have about the same HP. Sure they only cost 100m, but they shell out on a fraction of the profit of a tower. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4245
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Posted - 2013.08.29 15:34:00 -
[300] - Quote
Who wants to actually fight when you can shoot structures and run away
:smugdog: paging Lyris Nairn There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
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