Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille Gallente Federation
169
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 06:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
But if the landlord is renting a space in his station, don't they also control and patrol their space? Aren't they, in effect playing Concord? Or are you totally on your own out there? Watch this space.-á New exciting signature in development. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4277
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 06:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:More ISK, more opportunity, and more freedom.
More... unchecked botting for the RMT farm? Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
128
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 06:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:if the renters could take their own space they would not have to be renters now would they?
The threshold for taking your own space would be a lot lower without the giant landlord alliances; just saying.
Personally, I think the system is reasonable and the rent is generally low. |
Zappity
Zappin' it
326
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 08:07:00 -
[34] - Quote
"Why waste your ISK so as to have fun."
Um, did I read that right in the OP? I thought having fun was the point. Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Renzler Industries Northern Associates.
191
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 08:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Donbe Scurred wrote:As a renter, would part of the agreement be protection from those scary AFK clockers I was reading about in that other thread? AFK cloaking where I am at.... what is that?
|
Enduros
Ostian Industries
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 08:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Biggest reason people rent is to not have to deal with alliance drama and other chores like CTAs and elite PvP where you sit on a titan for 2 hours with 100 of your closest lemmings before you bridge on top of an ihub. Also they want you to train into **** like the drake and then wake up at 4am to go fly that stupid ship 30 jumps away.
Ever been in a big alliance? The amount of red tape you need to get though just to be able to log in to a mumble server is mind-boggling. Then you have your 3 different jabbers, irc, 4 forums and something else, cause like you gotta have access to coalition channels am I right? Granted this is from 2-3 years ago but I doubt anything has really changed.
The you have your constant "they are **** but look at how awesome we are" at all levels across the whole coalition. Even though the metric by which you measure it is how many people showed up and how much KM whoring they accomplished. The last real real pvp I did in FA was when we were suppose to kill a hydra blops gang: everyone docked and I lost a vaga, gf!
Basically you pay to be left alone and do pretty much whatever you want. It's you, the lemmings, who are the real slaves. Granted some people really enjoy that sort of thing, but there are also those that do not. I'm sorry that you think we are playing the game wrong.
Oh and the extreme slavery you talk about is a few hours (1-3) of ratting income per month per active corp member to cover the rent. When you pull in 20mil/tick minimum up to like 45 in a carrier it's really a drop in the ocean. Count in escalations and faction loot and shipsBPCs your biggest concern becomes logistics, not the rent.
How terrible must you be at PvE (in this game lol) to see rent as some sort of slavery? The one evening you would spend in a fleet doing nothing but smack eachother will cover the rent. By the end of the month some people can afford to buy themselves a nyx or something if they are motivated to click enough red crosses. |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Renzler Industries Northern Associates.
191
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 08:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
More... unchecked botting for the RMT farm?
I don't bot... do a little PI, PvE, and PvP. That seems to bother you...why?
|
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Renzler Industries Northern Associates.
191
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 08:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Inokuma Yawara wrote:... Or are you totally on your own out there? The will take on the big guys... everything else is on the locals. Basically, small scale PvP. Lots of single 'bad guys'... some good fights.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
491
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 08:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
Skydell wrote:I'd rather Iteron mine in 1.0 sec myself.
Groveling at the feet of an Overlord for "fun"? No, don't see it happening. Renting is nothing like that. This clearly shows you don't have a clue what you are talking about. When you rent space, you pay your rent, which is essentially like tax but you pay in a single hit. After that, you do whatever you want. You don't have to go on ops, you don't have to defend your space. You simply rat or mine or roam or whatever you want. If anything, Renters have less of an "overlord" structure than a regular corp in an alliance. A regular corp pays tax, has to go on OPs and has too defend their space. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
491
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 08:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:Oh and ABC's, A and X type loots and pirate implants/ BPC's I think ABC is MHHAJCB at the moment. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
|
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
648
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 09:21:00 -
[41] - Quote
The alternative is to simply start taking SOV and realize you can't defend it with your small Alliance. While I don't like it I do understand why people would rent a part of nullsec. Personally I believe that when you are financially able to rent, you can also exploit a C2-3 wormhole and have a "full" sense of system ownership, despite lack of sov.
Renting isn't slavery though, it's beneficial to both sides, but I am in agreement with OP that you do sink ISK making someone else richer. If this is something you disagree with in principle, don't rent. Stay poor. The game is more interesting solving problems with limited resources anyway. |
Enduros
Ostian Industries
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 09:35:00 -
[42] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:The alternative is to simply start taking SOV and realize you can't defend it with your small Alliance. While I don't like it I do understand why people would rent a part of nullsec. Personally I believe that when you are financially able to rent, you can also exploit a C2-3 wormhole and have a "full" sense of system ownership, despite lack of sov.
Renting isn't slavery though, it's beneficial to both sides, but I am in agreement with OP that you do sink ISK making someone else richer. If this is something you disagree with in principle, don't rent. Stay poor. The game is more interesting solving problems with limited resources anyway.
WHs are much more work though. You can easily rent with a corp of 5 people+alts. In a WH it becomes difficult if you don't have people online reliably at the same time. In 0.0 you can not log in for a week an the world will not have ended usually.
As for holding sov as a small 5 man corp... good luck with that. You will need lots and lots of friends. Renting is basically paying to have lots and lots of friends |
S'Way
Bitter Vets
627
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 09:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
The only sensible way to rent is by setting up an alt corp and renting an upgraded system, fill it by recruiting about a dozen active players who want to rat / mine etc in 0.0. Set corp tax to 20 or 25% then only log in on that alt occasionally to do corp admin stuff (pay bills / fuel a tower that you're reacting at etc). The income from that easily pays the rental bill and gives you a couple of billion at least per month left over for doing almost nothing.
Invest that income into high-sec trading / research projects and you've got your very own ship replacement fund for any pvp / ganking you want to do (plus you're able to plex your accounts from that as well). Oh and much more freedom to still shoot at anyone you don't like (it's not like your corp admin alt will pvp) due to not having to comply with the renters blue list on your used pvp characters.
You can also do this in empire and recruit L4 mission runners, but with lower tax rates, the income isn't as good but it's still respectable if you can't afford the initial investment to rent in 0.0.
|
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
492
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 09:43:00 -
[44] - Quote
Best of luck finding people that won't go monkey **** at 25% tax and no active leadership. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
341
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 09:49:00 -
[45] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:*un dock set some relaxing music video on 2nd screen,lay down in a chair and reads a book.....
Damn sure is good being hi sec carebear cheap too.
Hi Sec makes people superior and slightly magical.
I, for example, can rat and mine at the same time without being at my PC or using a bot. And all that with just one account.
- High Sec, it's magic. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
S'Way
Bitter Vets
627
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 09:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Best of luck finding people that won't go monkey **** at 25% tax and no active leadership. You'd be surprised just how many are willing to join at 20% with no CTA's or any "must attend" corp ops. If you want to set it to 25% just be willing to carrier jump stuff they need once a week. There's a huge number of high-sec people who want to try 0.0 without any forced corp ops / cta's. The no active leadership isn't an issue as long as your recruitment policy catches potential awoxers (full api / proper checks etc needed). Most of them just want to rat or mine in peace.
|
Demica Diaz
The Scope Gallente Federation
52
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 10:08:00 -
[47] - Quote
Its all business. Do you think players rent 0.0 space for fun? No, they pay fee while knowing perfectly well that they will profit from that sector. I dont see any bad things about this because EVE is suppose to give players freedom to do stuff and renting is just one way. Just dont come cry on forums about cloaked ship in your rented space and all is fine. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
492
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 10:32:00 -
[48] - Quote
S'Way wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Best of luck finding people that won't go monkey **** at 25% tax and no active leadership. You'd be surprised just how many are willing to join at 20% with no CTA's or any "must attend" corp ops. If you want to set it to 25% just be willing to carrier jump stuff they need once a week. There's a huge number of high-sec people who want to try 0.0 without any forced corp ops / cta's. The no active leadership isn't an issue as long as your recruitment policy catches potential awoxers (full api / proper checks etc needed). Most of them just want to rat or mine in peace. Yeah, but most of them also want a tiny amount of structure. Not to mention that anyone mining doesn't pay tax so will be seen as non-contributing. If this was a readily doable plan, ther entire rental space would be filled with alt corps. But it's not. Having been in a corp that rented, it's just not as simple as "dump them in a corp, come back and harvest isk". They are players, not crops. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Prince Kobol
900
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 10:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Skydell wrote:I'd rather Iteron mine in 1.0 sec myself.
Groveling at the feet of an Overlord for "fun"? No, don't see it happening. Renting is nothing like that. This clearly shows you don't have a clue what you are talking about. When you rent space, you pay your rent, which is essentially like tax but you pay in a single hit. After that, you do whatever you want. You don't have to go on ops, you don't have to defend your space. You simply rat or mine or roam or whatever you want. If anything, Renters have less of an "overlord" structure than a regular corp in an alliance. A regular corp pays tax, has to go on OPs and has too defend their space.
If it only it was really like that.
I have had experience with Renters who were complete dicks, wouldn't lift a finger to help, had more rules then most countries have laws and were very restrictive on what you could and could not do.
Other Renters basically couldn't give a damn, its your space, you do what you want.
Each Renter Alliance is different.
I know the Goons have now become renters hence the charm offensive but jesus don't over do it :) |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
492
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Skydell wrote:I'd rather Iteron mine in 1.0 sec myself.
Groveling at the feet of an Overlord for "fun"? No, don't see it happening. Renting is nothing like that. This clearly shows you don't have a clue what you are talking about. When you rent space, you pay your rent, which is essentially like tax but you pay in a single hit. After that, you do whatever you want. You don't have to go on ops, you don't have to defend your space. You simply rat or mine or roam or whatever you want. If anything, Renters have less of an "overlord" structure than a regular corp in an alliance. A regular corp pays tax, has to go on OPs and has too defend their space. If it only it was really like that. I have had experience with Renters who were complete dicks, wouldn't lift a finger to help, had more rules then most countries have laws and were very restrictive on what you could and could not do. Other Renters basically couldn't give a damn, its your space, you do what you want. Each Renter Alliance is different. I know the Goons have now become renters hence the charm offensive but jesus don't over do it :) Well across my characters I've been in 3 renter alliances. All of them had the same core features: - No CTAs - Wartime defense of the space (roams are your own problem, not theirs) - Only low/no income moons available - Some JBs available - Limited Intel Channels
Anything beyond that is up to your corp to arrange. They don't provide logistics or roam defense, but at the same time they don't make demands of you. Sure the rules may differ from alliance to alliance, but an overlord structure would insinuate that the alliance will make you do their bidding, which just isn't the case in renting. I stick by my stance that a renting corp gets treated less like a peon than a member corp of most alliances. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
|
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
128
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:They took the space to begin with and they will most likely defend the space if it is being attacked, if the renters could take their own space they would not have to be renters now would they?
Enduros wrote:Biggest reason people rent is to not have to deal with alliance drama and other chores like CTAs and elite PvP where you sit on a titan for 2 hours with 100 of your closest lemmings before you bridge on top of an ihub. Also they want you to train into **** like the drake and then wake up at 4am to go fly that stupid ship 30 jumps away.
Ever been in a big alliance? The amount of red tape you need to get though just to be able to log in to a mumble server is mind-boggling. Then you have your 3 different jabbers, irc, 4 forums and something else, cause like you gotta have access to coalition channels am I right? Granted this is from 2-3 years ago but I doubt anything has really changed.
The you have your constant "they are **** but look at how awesome we are" at all levels across the whole coalition. Even though the metric by which you measure it is how many people showed up and how much KM whoring they accomplished. The last real real pvp I did in FA was when we were suppose to kill a hydra blops gang: everyone docked and I lost a vaga, gf!
Basically you pay to be left alone and do pretty much whatever you want. It's you, the lemmings, who are the real slaves. Granted some people really enjoy that sort of thing, but there are also those that do not. I'm sorry that you think we are playing the game wrong.
Oh and the extreme slavery you talk about is a few hours (1-3) of ratting income per month per active corp member to cover the rent. When you pull in 20mil/tick minimum up to like 45 in a carrier it's really a drop in the ocean. Count in escalations and faction loot and shipsBPCs your biggest concern becomes logistics, not the rent.
How terrible must you be at PvE (in this game lol) to see rent as some sort of slavery? The one evening you would spend in a fleet doing nothing but smack eachother will cover the rent. By the end of the month some people can afford to buy themselves a nyx or something if they are motivated to click enough red crosses.
Lucas Kell wrote:you do whatever you want. You don't have to go on ops, you don't have to defend your space. You simply rat or mine or roam or whatever you want. If anything, Renters have less of an "overlord" structure than a regular corp in an alliance. A regular corp pays tax, has to go on OPs and has too defend their space.
Enduros wrote:WHs are much more work though . . . In a WH it becomes difficult if you don't have people online reliably at the same time . . . As for holding sov as a small 5 man corp... good luck with that. You will need lots and lots of friends.
You are describing the hardship of operating in null without the backing of a large coalition. You are arguing that circumventing that hardship by paying someone else allows you to be "free" and to "play the game" the way you want. But, the hardship that you guys are describing IS "the game" of EVE Online . . . isn't it? And if it is, and if you are avoiding it, then what are you paying for? If it isn't, then what IS the game? |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
238
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
Get yourself a nullified T3 or learn to use a a scanning scout and wormholes to bypass camped systems. Leave the annoms to the scrubs and blitz null or low DEDS and get guaranteed faction. No rent needed for that. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
494
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:You are describing the hardship of operating in null without the backing of a large coalition. You are arguing that circumventing that hardship by paying someone else allows you to be "free" and to "play the game" the way you want. But, the hardship that you guys are describing IS "the game" of EVE Online . . . isn't it? And if it is, and if you are avoiding it, then what are you paying for? If it isn't, then what IS the game? Generally people that rent are looking to settle down into an area they can live in relative safety and do whatever it is they want to do. Some people play EVE for PVE. Some people play to go on small scale PvP. Some people want to build an industry venture. Those things are all made easier in null. PVE is on your doorstep, PvP can be done without risk of being concorded or giving away kill rights, and Industry is a lot easier due to the ease of chucking down a POS. Not everyone plays EVE to experience hardship, so no, that ISN'T "the game". The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Robbin Sund
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:40:00 -
[54] - Quote
Seems like people here would rent a house, move in and complain its moldy and the rent is higher then expected and cry when no-one come to get the trash.
Read the contract first, scout out the apartment, check out badspots, if you dont like it dont rent it, or talk down the price. If you dont want to defend it, ask for them to defend it for you, they dont agree? dont accept it! Jikes. One way trip! Why dont you drive? |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
1192
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Why pay rent to live in Null Sec... when you can simply join a nulls sec corp without much effort and dont pay some stupid rent |
S'Way
Bitter Vets
627
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: Yeah, but most of them also want a tiny amount of structure. Not to mention that anyone mining doesn't pay tax so will be seen as non-contributing. If this was a readily doable plan, ther entire rental space would be filled with alt corps. But it's not. Having been in a corp that rented, it's just not as simple as "dump them in a corp, come back and harvest isk". They are players, not crops.
For the majority just knowing the CEO logs on once a day to sort any issues out (even if only for 5-10 mins) is enough. While true miners don't pay tax, if you recruit them - recruit the ones that don't have the ability to compress / get what they've mined to a place to sell easily without help - that's when you can charge a small percentage for doing that (ok it takes a couple of decent skilled alts to do, but it's very viable). The other option is buy the ore from them at a discounted rate (most are happy to take a bit less than market value if they dont have to haul). But usually you only recruit ratters who also have alts that might mine a bit, not 100% miners, so that's not usually a concern.
It can be done (I've had such an alt corp running before for well over 6 months until I got bored), it's worth the investment and when you have a couple of decent skilled alts doing nothing you can use for the odd pos + corp admin / compress and hauling every few days then it works very well.
Lucas Kell wrote:They are players, not crops. Welcome to EvE a sandbox game of social engineering at it finest. Other players are just utilities to provide you with what you want. For some people that means having someone to fly with, for others someone to shoot at. Yet there are people in the game who get their fun by simply shooting at red X's all day - if you can provide them with a service that lets them do that and profit from it - why not.
|
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Renzler Industries Northern Associates.
191
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:50:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mayhaw Morgan wrote: You are describing the hardship of operating in null without the backing of a large coalition. You are arguing that circumventing that hardship by paying someone else allows you to be "free" and to "play the game" the way you want. But, the hardship that you guys are describing IS "the game" of EVE Online . . . isn't it? And if it is, and if you are avoiding it, then what are you paying for? If it isn't, then what IS the game?
There are many parts to EvE.
A small PvP Corp might not want the requirement that come with defending sovereignty, so instead they rent space and use it as a base of operation to support their PvP. Do you feel this is wrong?
Very few players do everything in EvE; and most pick those areas that they are interested in. Some players have never mined, traded, run industry, etc. It is a choice. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4278
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 11:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
More... unchecked botting for the RMT farm?
I don't bot... do a little PI, PvE, and PvP. That seems to bother you...why?
You pay rent to do what you could almost do in solo and for free? Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
Renzler Industries Northern Associates.
191
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 12:07:00 -
[59] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: You pay rent to do what you could almost do in solo and for free?
I don't pay rent... the Corp does.
I actually pay more in taxes (percentage wise) with my mission runner in a Highsec Corp than I do in my null renter Corp. Corp costs are higher in null, but my cost are lower while my profits are higher. Financially this is a good deal.
I am able to rat in a true -1.0 system which is something I can not do solo or free.
I can run anoms in very nice systems.
Solo... isn't what i am looking for.
|
Fanatic Row
DED Drug Enforcement Department
50
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 12:09:00 -
[60] - Quote
Because you don't have enough warm bodies and/or enough ISK to buy a capital fleet, jump fuel, sov structures and pay sov bills.
... especially considering the fact that the major players will just tear down your sandcastle if you're squatting in their neighborhood.
If you're not paying, you're the product
It might not conform to your vision of how 0.0 should work, but it's a lot better than those bloated "allies" of the big power blocs, that fall over when you just look at them, taking up large chunks of space.
It's also a low barrier of entry for people with the ambition of building an alliance capable of holding sov on "their own" some day.
With renting now being an "official" thing, hopefully we'll see less bots and more real players using the space as well. One can hope
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |