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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
562
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:35:00 -
[271] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:I had a long think about how I might use this ship. I cannot think of a scenario in which it would be useful.
Not a Single? Where is your imagination?
Example to kill a gatecamp. Or DED plexing in 0.0. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Silver Getsuga
Real Enemy Academy SOLAR WING
2
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:38:00 -
[272] - Quote
I wonder if these changes will kill autocannons Vargur.... not so good projection even multiplied by 25% and mjd focus looks weak compared to other weapon systems. Autocannons can't project to 100km even with these changes. Oh and 4 huge alpha arty cannons will probably suck for pve. (too much overshoot with low RoF). One can ignore mjd thingy though and pray tracking will be enough to kill orbiting stuff. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
55
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:38:00 -
[273] - Quote
Mainiac IV wrote:Honestly I think this whole idea is bad
Then explain why or don't post. This is not useful feedback.
Silver Getsuga wrote:I wonder if these changes will kill autocannons Vargur.... not so good projection even multiplied by 25% and mjd focus looks weak compared to other weapon systems. Autocannons can't project to 100km even with these changes. Oh and 4 huge alpha arty cannons will probably suck for pve. (too much overshoot with low RoF).
Then jump into the middle of the enemy ships rather than jumping away. No more having to fit Arty for Mordu's Headhunters! :D
Mournful Conciousness wrote:I had a long think about how I might use this ship. I cannot think of a scenario in which it would be useful.
Neither can I construct a rational narrative to support bastion mode, so there's a problem there for me.
I think if you wanted to see these ships in PVP all you had to do was increase the sensor strength and make no other changes whatsoever. They were fine.
I am deeply disappointed by this proposal and cannot in good conscience support it.
My apologies.
So, one for PvE I can think of several potential uses. The MJD was already starting to see some mission use, this just further cements that. I'm not sure how these are going to fit into incursions but I think it's worth looking into at least before we condemn them there, and extra high slots are always helpful there anyway even without siege or MJDs.
I sort of think that the point of the sideways buff is that the don't want to see them too much in PvP, at least they don't want to see entire fleets of them smacking into each other.
The original worry for these ships was that they were going to become kings of the BS gang by being able to fit absurd amounts of remote rep chaining and I guess CCP feels this is still very much a valid concern, hence the low sensor strength. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1248
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:44:00 -
[274] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:MeBiatch wrote:GÇóExtends all large turret falloff and tracking by 25%
why just falloff and not optimal range? does this not give a big boost to arty/blaster setups and not much for rails and lazors? Nice quote, except the OP mentions turret falloff and optimal Edit: just realized I actually typed falloff and tracking, and that CCP Logibro fixed it. Logibro best bro, thanks bro. Sorry about that.
oh cool you updated the op
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Stay Frosty.
86
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:44:00 -
[275] - Quote
I'd really love to see some numbers of what the local rep / EHP of Marauders in Bastion mode might look like, and compared with relevant alternatives (e.g., how many logistics it would take to make it more attractive to stay out of Bastion mode). Anyone? Numbers? Anyone? |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
828
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:47:00 -
[276] - Quote
Mournful, you are being a huge whiner. And you have no imagination. I can think of all kinds of uses for these ships.
Take a break, man. Lobbying for your right to delete your signature |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
139
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:47:00 -
[277] - Quote
Silver Getsuga wrote:Oh and 4 huge alpha arty cannons will probably suck for pve. (too much overshoot with low RoF). It only it was possible to ungroup your guns for volley damage that wasn't massively overkill for small ships...
*wants an eft build to include these changes* Going to be insane alongside the changes to local rep! |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1764
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:49:00 -
[278] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:The new skill is needed because the Tactical Reconfiguration one gives a fuel reduction to Strontium Clathrates. I'm pretty sure you guys don't want to overflow your cargo with those Also, remember the bastion cycle time is only 60 seconds when maxed. For Incursions, you can always pulse it on / off depending on circumstances. Tell me, how does one use the Bastion module in Incursions, when remote repping no longer works when in Bastion mode?
How do you not get that these things will have a MASSIVE tank that allows them to easily tank a ton of damage until they drop out of siege.
These changes are fairly amazing, I actually really like this
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Ripply Kat
Temporal Paradox
2
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:49:00 -
[279] - Quote
The one thing I don't like about this regardless of balance is the 0ms penalty of going in bastion. I think a mod were you get a speed reduction similar to the cloak with a warp penalty would be much better. Even with all the resists I just imagine these will get blapped if used in low, null, and even WH by real dreads. I like the bastions possible application in pve, but going 0ms in pvp with a subcap seems bad. |
Azriel X
Fyght Club SpaceMonkey's Alliance
23
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:49:00 -
[280] - Quote
I don't see why the bastion should eliminate remote reps to it. Obviously it would be far too overpowered with them... but also I can see why many people say it will be a total flop without them...And because the bastion module is intended as a micro version of the siege mode dreads use... why not allow the remote reps to still be applied to it, however adding a reduction to the repping amount of said bastioned battleship. Would this not be the best way to hit the sweet spot for this issue? |
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
262
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:51:00 -
[281] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:So, one for PvE I can think of several potential uses. The MJD was already starting to see some mission use, this just further cements that. I'm not sure how these are going to fit into incursions but I think it's worth looking into at least before we condemn them there, and extra high slots are always helpful there anyway even without siege or MJDs.
I sort of think that the point of the sideways buff is that the don't want to see them too much in PvP, at least they don't want to see entire fleets of them smacking into each other.
The original worry for these ships was that they were going to become kings of the BS gang by being able to fit absurd amounts of remote rep chaining and I guess CCP feels this is still very much a valid concern, hence the low sensor strength.
Well, it would be wrong to say that marauders weren't already good at pve - particularly because they can salvage as they go (or could until this proposal).
The biggest problem for me is the bastion mode. Not because it's a highly niche ability, but because if I saw it in a science fiction film or book I would stop reading or watching right there and then and condemn the author as an idiot.
It's not even defensible with psuedo-science, let alone physics.
I am certain there has to be a better way to make marauders better at pvp than this mumbo jumbo.
As for these ships appearing in fleets, the determining factor will be payoff vs cost. You pay for (some) pirate ships because they are worth it (bhaalgorn and vindicator and nothing else). This ship still dies to a logi-supported vindi or bhaalgorn, so why would you bring it?
Please stop this madness and go back to the drawing board. A Capacitor Transporter is a device for transporting capacitors. An Energy Transfer Array is a device for transferring energy from one spaceship to another. Please learn the difference. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
780
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:52:00 -
[282] - Quote
Errrm, what's the point?
Sure you spun a good yarn with the MJD an all that but if you are planning on engaging 100km away you already have Beams, Cruise, Artillery or Rails fitted and all of those will do 100km easy so the optimal/fall-off is redundant (doubly so when you replace web bonus with range!) .. apart from the tank (which will always be better when outsourced) you lose nothing by choosing to stay mobile = won't be used for PvP in any significantly higher numbers as cheaper and just as effective alternatives exist.
Now if you instead of the range bonuses were to give them tracking/missile equivalents instead you'd have ships that not only benefited when at 100km+ but could just as easily do SR weapons and hunker down in the middle of a furball and tear some arms off. Double whammy in PvE as tracking is infinitely better after MJD introduction covered any and all repositioning woes.
And you could script it to allow damage bonus (RoF for artillery) to force a choice twixt dps and applied-dps.
Still probably wouldn't be enough to convince people to blow 1B a pop when they can get away with one fifth of that but would be better than range in any case.
Tanking bonus needs to be significantly higher as +100% is nowhere near enough in todays excessive dps environment (read: Fleets larger than the entire server population of 8-9 years ago) .. give it the full siege module bonus by including a 50% cycle reduction on top of the +100%.
PS: Bastion? Really? That the best you could come up with? PPS: Better to equate it to Triage modules as the biggie with regards to siege is the damage bump, whereas Triage is all tank (local + projected). |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
190
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:53:00 -
[283] - Quote
Just noticed that these Marauders are THE way to rush c4 anoms solo. Tanks it solo, has three large smartbombs and a hold to run multiple anoms before refilling. Works very well with the MJD and stuff. "When we're done with links you won't recognize them" - CCP Fozzie |
Astaron Ahashion
BraveVesperia
0
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:53:00 -
[284] - Quote
Some ultra quick napkin math that i'm sure people will jump on me for if it's a little wrong but with the Paladin in bastion mode with 2 faction TC with optimal ranged you're getting 32+19km conflag, 96+19km Scorch, 36+47km gleam and more than 250km optimal with aurora. That's a pretty significant increase in projection range. I like it. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1248
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:54:00 -
[285] - Quote
So any chance we will see a tech ii mjd with longer jump range? Maybe 150 km? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Retmas
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
18
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:54:00 -
[286] - Quote
in response to the remote rep complaints : why not reduce incoming repairs and such by 50%? would decrease a bastion's spider ability whilst still allowing for that option. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1215
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:54:00 -
[287] - Quote
Mr Floydy wrote: It only it was possible to ungroup your guns for volley damage that wasn't massively overkill for small ships...
What a horrible concept. I can't believe that CCP would ever allow anyone to fire their guns individually or in smaller groups. Overkill FTW! Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Tzel Mayon
Wind And Flame Stellar Eclipse
1
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:55:00 -
[288] - Quote
CCP:
I am not sure if this is intended our not:
But with these Bastion buffs, I think I would use this /a lot/ in epic arcs.
What would happen is:
1. Dual tank the Maurader, with Shield and Armor tanks. (with the massive bonuses to each, this is incredible). 2. Warp in, micro jump drive away from the warp in spot, launch drones, go into bastion modes, eat frigates. 3. Get Aggro. 4. Signal my fleet to warp in.
I think this will make dual tanking viable.
And I like it. :)
I /really/ like the idea of a non-DPS Bastion option.
THIS WOULD BE AWESOME if Mauraders had a bonus to fleet boosting!!! By sacrificing the DPS Mods, they could instead equip fleet assistance modules.
Basically, this would be kind of like bringing an Orca in for command and tank, but not with the Orca. :)
Please consider! |
Kristoffon vonDrake
Forceful Resource Acquisition Inc
72
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:55:00 -
[289] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote: Don't forget that they can't point you while you're in bastion
Why the hell not?
Immunity to ewar doesn't mean you can't activate ewar mods on them. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1765
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 22:55:00 -
[290] - Quote
Azriel X wrote:I don't see why the bastion should eliminate remote reps to it. Obviously it would be far too overpowered with them... but also I can see why many people say it will be a total flop without them...And because the bastion module is intended as a micro version of the siege mode dreads use... why not allow the remote reps to still be applied to it, however adding a reduction to the repping amount of said bastioned battleship. Would this not be the best way to hit the sweet spot for this issue?
No, you can easily get some really seriously silly tanks on these things as listed now, allowing RR will make them virtually unkillable unless you alpha them, and the game has enough crap in it now that promotes alpha
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
2424
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:57:00 -
[291] - Quote
YaSiS wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:CCP Rise wrote:I'll make sure we talk tomorrow about the tracking bonus for turret ships (I had understood that neither turrets or missiles were getting an application bonus). I believe its meant to say 25% optimal and 25% falloff.
Either way it won't be unequal as it is currently listed. Who cares about this? You are wrecking both the Kronos and Paladin by removing a key element: the web bonuses, plus gimping all of them in DPS by nerfing the drone bays. Yah, you have made this into a PvP ship, but once again wrecked another PvE ship. All part of the plan, I assume. +1
I'm not sure I follow this - if you're talking about missions, a web bonus is not needed - with turrets, you snipe the frigates first before they come in close. Even when they do come close, a 90% web usually isn't enough to keep transversal down to hit them with large guns.
When they're close, use drones - and Marauders still have enough dronebay to use lights and take care of that. With missiles, bit pointless to shoot frigates first. In all cases the web strength is highly situational in missions. Maybe using 2 webs? But that's a bit overkill when they can just be dealt faster with drones while you focus on larger ships with guns.
However, the extra resists, damage projection, EW immunity is going to be of tremendous help in missions like "The Blockade" where there are 1346454 NPCs using E-war while in Bastion mode. Even without it, Kronos and Paladin new falloff and optimal range bonuses are going to be useful 100% of the time, instead of extreme close range like a web bonus. |
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1215
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:57:00 -
[292] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: How do you not get that these things will have a MASSIVE tank that allows them to easily tank a ton of damage until they drop out of siege.
These changes are fairly amazing, I actually really like this
Because they utterly fail to understand what the unpenalized resists of a DCII paired with the unpenalized resists of this thing's siege mode will mean, couple with opening up low and mid slots for more damage/tracking/etc. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Caleb Seremshur
Angel of War
58
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Posted - 2013.08.29 22:59:00 -
[293] - Quote
Can I make the crazy stupid suggestion here that marauders get 8 slots in their primary tank allocation instead of an 8th high? Also why still tractor/salvage bonuses?
Wouldn't a golem be better with role bonus: 25% reduced explosion radius, paladin: 25% faster cap recharge (ergo total cap can be dropped again to increase vulnerability to neuts), kronos: 25% web bonus (only half as strong now, doesn't compete with pirate ships), vargur: 25% bonus velocity to AB/MWD modules & 25% increased mass penalty for those same modules
Seriously please please please get rid of the stupid tractor beam bonus. Read my thread here for my thoughts on eve economy https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=263968&find=unread --- Mining in game, from the perspective of an IRL miner. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3503687&#post3503687 ----á for FW rebalance in 2013 |
Demotress
Segmentum Solar Nulli Secunda
9
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Posted - 2013.08.29 23:00:00 -
[294] - Quote
why not call the skill Tactical Bastion Reconfiguration to reflect the skill you use to siege in a dread? |
Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
334
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Posted - 2013.08.29 23:02:00 -
[295] - Quote
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:I'd really love to see some numbers of what the local rep / EHP of Marauders in Bastion mode might look like, and compared with relevant alternatives (e.g., how many logistics it would take to make it more attractive to stay out of Bastion mode). Anyone? Numbers? Anyone?
I would guesstimate: 2 logi for single XL-shield booster 3 logi for single XLASB 5.5-6 logi for double XLASB setups |
Retmas
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
18
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Posted - 2013.08.29 23:02:00 -
[296] - Quote
also, a quick question about that 30% hull resist bonus - i understand there is no stacking penalty, however - i'm assuming it will still stack normally (mulplicitive)? if i understand the theory correctly) if you have 60% resists from a DCII, and you activate this module, will it be mulplicative (you have 72% resists (.4*.3=.12, convert to a %, add to the existing 60%)) or will it be additive (60% + 30% = hulltank forever trolo)? |
Silver Getsuga
Real Enemy Academy SOLAR WING
2
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Posted - 2013.08.29 23:04:00 -
[297] - Quote
Mr Floydy wrote:Silver Getsuga wrote:Oh and 4 huge alpha arty cannons will probably suck for pve. (too much overshoot with low RoF). It only it was possible to ungroup your guns for volley damage that wasn't massively overkill for small ships... *wants an eft build to include these changes* Going to be insane alongside the changes to local rep! 4 ungrouped autocannons overshoot less than 4 ungrouped arty cannons. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1215
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Posted - 2013.08.29 23:04:00 -
[298] - Quote
Retmas wrote:also, a quick question about that 30% hull resist bonus - i understand there is no stacking penalty, however - i'm assuming it will still stack normally (mulplicitive)? if i understand the theory correctly) if you have 60% resists from a DCII, and you activate this module, will it be mulplicative (you have 72% resists (.4*.3=.12, convert to a %, add to the existing 60%)) or will it be additive (60% + 30% = hulltank forever trolo)?
Curious as well. It probably is multiplicative. Even so, it's silly amounts of omni hull resist in that mode. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
334
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Posted - 2013.08.29 23:06:00 -
[299] - Quote
I'm just going to get this out of the way, because I know it's going to be asked sometime in the future.
Paladin cap bonus gets rolled into the hull, add tracking bonus. Because just about every other cap bonus has been rolled into the hull for a "real" bonus. |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
139
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Posted - 2013.08.29 23:06:00 -
[300] - Quote
Azriel X wrote:I don't see why the bastion should eliminate remote reps to it. Obviously it would be far too overpowered with them... but also I can see why many people say it will be a total flop without them...And because the bastion module is intended as a micro version of the siege mode dreads use... why not allow the remote reps to still be applied to it, however adding a reduction to the repping amount of said bastioned battleship. Would this not be the best way to hit the sweet spot for this issue? Have you seen the resist bonus? They'd have to nerf the RR into oblivion to get an ounce of balance. Can't see it ever really being worth it. |
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