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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
148
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:45:00 -
[481] - Quote
Roime wrote:This is a very nice idea and I love that you came up with new stuff! The only threat to the blink -> bastion idea is on-grid probing. Without that, you could hope deal with approaching tackle with your amazing dps projection, but when it warps at 0 on you, you are hosed. However, the tank in bastion means the opposing gang needs really serious numbers to break you. Of course, a small gang of marauders will tear tackle off each others, as they are completely free from formation, being independent operators. Picture held by a slaved, dual plate Proteus which is surrounded by 6 Kronoses, 50km apart, and each one has you in Null optimal. With Talos tracking. Moridin Mandarb wrote:Alticus C Bear wrote: To be fair it does state it makes them immune to e-war. But that's only while in Bastion mode. When not, it suffers the same problem it always has. In a PvP scenario, no one will want to use the Bastion module, due to the fact that even with the awesome resistances, they cannot hold up against 30 to 40 BSes shooting them at once, and not being able to receive remote reps. 40 battleships is not PVP, it's blobbing, and only very few players in this game cares what happens in those- it's not interesting no matter which ship you are sitting in.
"Blobbing" is pvp. |
Aus Unit727
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:46:00 -
[482] - Quote
Battle Cube wrote:Ravasta Helugo wrote:Battle Cube wrote:... its not good in L4s... Wat its not higher damage, so it doesnt do L4s faster then current ships, so it has higher tank....which is unnecessary, so yeah, its not any better than current ships for L4s
Higher tank equal's more damage mods and damage applaction mods high run time please unstuipd yourself. |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:53:00 -
[483] - Quote
Battle Cube wrote: And speaking of rare missions - any missions with GATES will make the new marauders just unusable. Anything with gates, really.
On this point we are in perfect agreement. The MJD needs to be altered in a way that allows some selection of jump distance, or else a gate 50km away is going to take over 8 minutes to get to. |
Sturmwolke
436
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:55:00 -
[484] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote: PALADIN
Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to Large Energy Turret optimal range (instead of 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level)
KRONOS (Gallente Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to large Hybrid Turret Falloff per level (instead of 10% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level)
You know that this will massively boost the desirability for the Vindicator (a pirate BS) yes? The only remaining battleship with a 90% web.
You don't see anything wrong with that? |
Old Man Sam
Fishy Old Men in Space
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 04:56:00 -
[485] - Quote
I dont really like the new changes, I feel its to close to what already exists. Why not try something new?
Why not have 2 modes for the ship: Speed mode(normal mode), and attack mode(bastion mod active). In speed mode, the ship is like the interceptor of battle ships, capable of hitting cruser speeds using a microwarp drive. In speed mode, it also enjoys reduced cap usage on MWD, and faster usage of MJD mods. It also has laughable resists, and no bonuses to weapons, nor repair. For laughs, they could all have a 200m3 (or so) drone bay, and 25mb drone control (50 for gallenti?)
Then, the bread and butter: attack mode. Costing the ability to activate MWD's, (and possibly MJD, else long cool down time) most of its speed (we talking half the speed of a normal battle ship, or even a quarter) for the resists of a tech 2 ship (possibly slightly less, due to its lack of specialization?) and a bonus to armor/shield repair/regen amount. Missile ships would see better missile damage, and speed. Gun ships would see better tracking, fall off and optimal, and a bit of damage. Drone control would also go up in this mode, possibly much more for gallenti, possibly not. And since we want local tank so badly, no RR fo you!
The bastion module its self would be almost required on the vessel, as it would be very fragile without the module active. Giving the ship the ability to warp in attack mode, and switch between the 2 modes on the fly (like a covert ops cloak, giving it a five second activation time, and 5 second cool down) would make the vessel very swift on its feet. weapons timer would not be needed, given the changes to the whole design.
Im really just throwing ideas to the wind here, but I really dont like the ideas of the ship currently on the table. being fully unable to move for 75 seconds? (one does not simply train to V) sacrificing your ability to tank in order to move in jilted jumps? It feels like an awkward ship to fly.
(if this is for some reason a double post, forgive me.) |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
55
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:01:00 -
[486] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:teehee, getting people to turn their safeties off! that should be fun.
and that certainly seems like a lot of blaster range, does the stacking penalty apply to the optimal/falloff bonus? or was that falloff within 55-60km, as in ~20km and then 35-40km or so of falloff? oh right falloff bonus (useless imo, as you probably want rails)
I think the kronos could probably use a bit more damage, the ability to use 3x sentry drones with its rails brought it up in dps to be nearly competitive with other marauders. although I will probably be able to throw a t2 damage rig on the paladin too. and with the range bonus on the paladin wow! A 3 damage mod, t2 rof rig, and 3 sentry drone kronos does about the same damage as a 3 damage mod with 2 sentry drone paladin. with the changes I'll probably have both with 4 damage mods and t2 rof rigs. oh yes and that was in EFT without reload time.... with reload time the kronos just looks sad.
so with reload time, 4 faction damage mods, t2 rof rigs, 5% damage implants, no drones, and close range faction ammo, I present tachys vs 425mm railguns! kronos: 982 dps (without reload time 1007 dps), aw shucks, lets try null 1166 dps/1185 dps reload time isn't so bad with blasters, and for epeen numbers void! 1633/1658 paladin: 1146 dps (1354 with conflag and 967 with scorch) varg: 1165 with its close range ammo and 800s
425s and tachys have fairly similar stats (well except for damage) on a mission boat. I don't know if the ability to switch to blasters makes up for it. Null just slightly out damages a tach paladin, and well has nowhere near the range. especially vs a what 60-70km optimal tach paladin with the change? and if we are admitting the web bonus is useless for most missions well that just takes any other advantage blasters could possibly have (outside of a very small number of missions)
as a railboat the kronos just comes up short. and well as an immobile blaster boat... well "immobile blaster boat"
I'm really failing to see the problem here. The Kronos is going to have some of the best damage projection to 100 meters out of all of these ships. The Vargur is going to have to suffer through low Arty DPS and fire-rate, the Paladin is probably its best competition with Beam Lasers and that optimal bonus but the Kronos should still do pretty well. No clue how the Golem is going to do but probably not bad if it can chuck Torps out to 100, it won't be able to alpha frigates though which will cut down on completion times.
Second with the exception of lasers Hybrids have the fastest reload times so they should be taking less of a DPS hit than any other weapon.
I'd prefer to see the Kronos get a range bonus for Hybrids but that's also sort of a Caldari thing so... meh? I for one am fine with jumping into the enemy Battleships in a mission rather than away and then anchoring for hilarious tracking and tank. Add on the increased tracking and there shouldn't be much of a problem. |
Ariak Rykard
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:02:00 -
[487] - Quote
Old Man Sam wrote:I dont really like the new changes, I feel its to close to what already exists. Why not try something new?
Why not have 2 modes for the ship: Speed mode(normal mode), and attack mode(bastion mod active). In speed mode, the ship is like the interceptor of battle ships, capable of hitting cruser speeds using a microwarp drive. In speed mode, it also enjoys reduced cap usage on MWD, and faster usage of MJD mods. It also has laughable resists, and no bonuses to weapons, nor repair. For laughs, they could all have a 200m3 (or so) drone bay, and 25mb drone control (50 for gallenti?)
Then, the bread and butter: attack mode. Costing the ability to activate MWD's, (and possibly MJD, else long cool down time) most of its speed (we talking half the speed of a normal battle ship, or even a quarter) for the resists of a tech 2 ship (possibly slightly less, due to its lack of specialization?) and a bonus to armor/shield repair/regen amount. Missile ships would see better missile damage, and speed. Gun ships would see better tracking, fall off and optimal, and a bit of damage. Drone control would also go up in this mode, possibly much more for gallenti, possibly not. And since we want local tank so badly, no RR fo you!
The bastion module its self would be almost required on the vessel, as it would be very fragile without the module active. Giving the ship the ability to warp in attack mode, and switch between the 2 modes on the fly (like a covert ops cloak, giving it a five second activation time, and 5 second cool down) would make the vessel very swift on its feet. weapons timer would not be needed, given the changes to the whole design.
Im really just throwing ideas to the wind here, but I really dont like the ideas of the ship currently on the table. being fully unable to move for 75 seconds? (one does not simply train to V) sacrificing your ability to tank in order to move in jilted jumps? It feels like an awkward ship to fly.
(if this is for some reason a double post, forgive me.)
WAY better proposal. While you're at it, throw in Battloid mode. Transformers in space, Robotech-style mechamorphosis. FULL OF WIN -á-á-á ¦+ ¦+¦+¦+¦+'¦+'\¦+¦+¦¦-ç\==((GÇó¦¬GùÅ))==/¦+¦+¦¦-ç/'¦+¦+ ¦+ ¦+ b(",b) ob(-.0)do (d.")d |
Ersahi Kir
The Eminence Front SpaceMonkey's Alliance
335
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:07:00 -
[488] - Quote
Aus Unit727 wrote:Battle Cube wrote:Ravasta Helugo wrote:Battle Cube wrote:... its not good in L4s... Wat its not higher damage, so it doesnt do L4s faster then current ships, so it has higher tank....which is unnecessary, so yeah, its not any better than current ships for L4s Higher tank equal's more damage mods and damage applaction mods high run time please unstuipd yourself.
How many more damage mods can you fit on a mission ship?
Most level 4 mission runner ships I've seen have 4 damage mods and 2 or 3 range/application mods. With stacking penalties you're not going to get much more out of a focused level 4 runner even if you had another slot. |
zbaaca
POD Based Lifeforms DarkSide.
33
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:10:00 -
[489] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote: 1. more room for webs on the minny recons, +60% painters are nice
2. I think missile velocity is a pretty interesting bonus. plus faster missiles -> a smaller delay on getting damage on target.
1 on small ganks 1-2 recons are fine 2 it's interesting bonus only for torps for cruise with skills at 4 shortest one are precision at 94km with lock range at 93. with bastion module i'd fit SensBooster for max range instead of TP Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4037
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:16:00 -
[490] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:How many more damage mods can you fit on a mission ship?
Most level 4 mission runner ships I've seen have 4 damage mods and 2 or 3 range/application mods. With stacking penalties you're not going to get much more out of a focused level 4 runner even if you had another slot.
Swap Tracking Computer for Tracking Enhancer, fit TP to the now empty midslot.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
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nahjustwarpin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
74
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:28:00 -
[491] - Quote
alot of people will still do missions in their domis or nightmares, why?
because bastion mode doesn't make running missions faster. It allows to tank more, but missions already can be tanked in mjd domis, machs and nightmares.
It's a gimmick idea without any direction. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4037
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:31:00 -
[492] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:How many more damage mods can you fit on a mission ship?
Most level 4 mission runner ships I've seen have 4 damage mods and 2 or 3 range/application mods. With stacking penalties you're not going to get much more out of a focused level 4 runner even if you had another slot.
Swap Tracking Computer for Tracking Enhancer, fit TP to the now empty midslot (remembering TP have their cycle time reduced! Yay!). Now you have more DPS against small targets. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Jade Knight07
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:35:00 -
[493] - Quote
I don't post much but this time I feel I must.
The Kronos is a good ship. It does exactly what its meant to filling its unique roll well. The only problem with it currently (on TQ now) is the very low sensor strength. For an 800 million isk ship which is supposed to be advanced. It should have a strong sensor strength like most other, if not all, T2 ships.
The 10% bonus to webifiers is one of the most appealing special bonuses on this ship. It actually allows it to fend off smaller faster ships that get too close. With out the webifier bonus the Kronos will be less effective.
Gallente ships are drone ships by nature even if this one isn't specialized in drone usage. Having the extra drone space and bandwidth seems logical and is very useful.
I cannot for the life of me figure out why you want to reduce armor hit points by 100. It isn't a big deal reallyGǪ just mind boggling. Increasing the hull hit points is pretty much pointless there is no hull tanking in EVE. At most with a damage control fitted you are basically allowing the ship to survive 1 or 2 more volleys something like 5-10 seconds . If you want to "balance" the Gallente ships give them more armor hit points and less hull hit points.
In regards to velocity, I don't understand why in new Eden you'd want to make the ship slower. Gallente ships are drone/blaster type ships which require mobility. A ~25% reduction in speed is painful.
As for some of the other changes I've never had any issues fitting the Kronos and with good skills it has a strong cap. The micro jump drive seems interesting though I don't have a strong reason to use it. But, lets not kid, the ship as it is does what its supposed to and really isn't in need of these sizeable changes(nerf).
CCP might as well make a whole new battleship for the Bastion mechanism. It would be preferable to me. The Bastion mode is a niche ability based heavily on tanking. If it was a massive damage boost it would make more sense to me. Giving its extra optimal + falloff just makes it a sniper type shipGǪ I guess.
In conclusion I strongly disagree with the changes to webifiers, drone bay/bandwidth, hit points, and velocity. I am begging you(CCP). Please leave these things alone. If other marauders need some help then by all means.
|
Oberus MacKenzie
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
15
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:46:00 -
[494] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:You know that this will massively boost the desirability for the Vindicator (a pirate BS) yes? The only remaining battleship with a 90% web.
You don't see anything wrong with that?
This ^
Also, please fix the sensor strength. It is the most stupid and contrived weakness ever and doesn't make sense in relation to the ship's stated purpose. What self respecting starship company would design a battleship with advanced weapons, propulsion systems and damage defenses, but fill the electronics suite with a bunch of f***ing tater tots? Answer: NONE Fix it. |
Shiganaru
Ignis Aeternus Imperium
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:47:00 -
[495] - Quote
Robert Harrison wrote: No... Just no...
Tara Read wrote: Please just stop... You obviously do not know how to fit a Dread or use one so don't even hint at another skill to be training on Dreads...
Yes. . Yes I do, and have used one for years. It would need to balanced of course, but it was an alternative thought to the skill issue and a way to tie it into existing skills. (One post in years, and I get that reaction psh.)
|
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
55
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:52:00 -
[496] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:You know that this will massively boost the desirability for the Vindicator (a pirate BS) yes? The only remaining battleship with a 90% web.
You don't see anything wrong with that?
This probably means that the Vindicator is going to lose its web bonus when they rebalance pirate battleships. |
Zheketri
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:53:00 -
[497] - Quote
When I had discontinued doing missions I had just unlocked the marauders skill. Now I have a reason to buy it and start training.
Thank you. I look forward to seeing what the final iteration looks like. "Once you have taken his place, have you then defeated your enemy?" |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon Suddenly Spaceships.
881
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:54:00 -
[498] - Quote
I wouldnt remove the web bonuses from paladin and kronos. They are too iconic and useful. Also, vindis cost enough as it is.
Also can we get a scan res bonus for bastion mods? |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
765
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:56:00 -
[499] - Quote
Hmm 1 question... Or a few, for the pve side of things... Could this 25% bonus with bastion in optimal and falloff be without stacking penalties? So it is a greater boost with range mods, rigs and scripts? Also perhaps a boost to scan res when deployed in bastion mode so its easier to snipe frigs in missions since your removing web bonus? Also, would be cool if mjd could be used in bastion mode lol :) Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Akturous
Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition.
226
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 05:57:00 -
[500] - Quote
OMMMMMMMMMFFFFFFFFFGGGGGGGGGGGGGYEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
Ps, I just finished HAC V, then I was working on cmd ships V, now I need Marauders V as well.
My only criticism after a quick glance is the removal of the web bonus from the Kronos and Paladin. When you're in siege mode you can't mitigate any transversal at all and as a damage application bonus, a web velocity bonus is far more useful than a fall-off or optimal one. Perhaps optimal could be useful in Paladin fleets, but at least keep the bonus on the Kronos. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
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Akturous
Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition.
226
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:02:00 -
[501] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:Hmm 1 question... Or a few, for the pve side of things... Could this 25% bonus with bastion in optimal and falloff be without stacking penalties? So it is a greater boost with range mods, rigs and scripts? Also perhaps a boost to scan res when deployed in bastion mode so its easier to snipe frigs in missions since your removing web bonus? Also, would be cool if mjd could be used in bastion mode lol :)
They are no longer ratting ships, remove that idea from your mind forever. There's a miriad of ships that are great for ratting, carriers frankly and balancing around shooting red crosses is silly. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
Asaryuu
Liquid Words
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:10:00 -
[502] - Quote
What? Really? Bastion mode? It must be me because i just don't understand. My Vargur has no issues tanking any lvl 4 and with a little patience i can even mop up the room and be on my way.
I don't see the need for some super tanky mode it must be a pvp thing.
And then to not even add any damage bonuses, what the hell is going on with this dev team.
Oh well maybe in practice it'll play better then sounds. |
Skullian
Celestial Armag3ddon
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:15:00 -
[503] - Quote
I think they need better resistances if they are going to have a + 400 sig radius.
I like the mini dread idea though. |
Alex Tutuola
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
9
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:21:00 -
[504] - Quote
So if bastion mode sets off a weapon timer, requiring you to turn off safety in high sec....
Who wants to bet the first day of this patch, CONCORD will respond to "sieged" marauders? |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
55
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:21:00 -
[505] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:Battle Cube wrote: And speaking of rare missions - any missions with GATES will make the new marauders just unusable. Anything with gates, really.
On this point we are in perfect agreement. The MJD needs to be altered in a way that allows some selection of jump distance, or else a gate 50km away is going to take over 8 minutes to get to.
Or you could just fit a MWD or AB and burn to the next gate? Not seeing the issue here, all of these ships are going to have plenty of spare slots.
nahjustwarpin wrote:alot of people will still do missions in their domis or nightmares, why?
because bastion mode doesn't make running missions faster. It allows to tank more, but missions already can be tanked in mjd domis, machs and nightmares.
It's a gimmick idea without any direction.
Except that it allows you to fit less tank and more damage application and damage modules. Plus there's the immunity to E-War, which often slows down mission completion. Also strong damage application bonuses meaning fewer soft hits and faster kill times.
Skullian wrote:I think they need better resistances if they are going to have a + 400 sig radius.
I like the mini dread idea though.
You mean like the partial T2 resist (which they already have) or the 30% non-penalized resist bonus they get from Bastion?
Beyond that T2 resist on these ships would cause all sorts of balance problems with Dreadnaught HP battleships and all sorts of other sillyness. For solo and small gang without Logi the Bastion is better for tanking anyway and doesn't give these same issues. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
55
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:31:00 -
[506] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Yes, this can be used in high-sec of course. You just get a weapon timer (requires security to be turned off though). Do not underestimate the use of the bastion module, even for missions. The innate tank allows removal of tanking modules on fittings and the projection bonus helps a lot as well. I remember reaching 55-60km falloff on a Null Neutron Blaster Kronos on our internal test server Only one bastion module may be fitted, but the resistance given don't stack, just like Damage Control. You can still fit one -with- a damage control though.
Question, why does this require your safety to be turned off? It can't be for forced mechanics reasons because you can do things that get you a timer without the safety off like engage war-targets and shoot mission rats. Just because it prevents you from jumping isn't a very good reason to force people to turn off a feature CCP put in specifically to avoid "oops" incidents and newbie mistakes. |
JetCord
People of Random Nature
11
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:35:00 -
[507] - Quote
Dredastttarm wrote:I say keep the web bonus on the Kronos and the Paladin, small stuff is hard to hit as it is. And webs are invaluble in incursions, which is where the Paladin is performing the most atm.
i do agree with this - keep the web bonus or give it back the drones
im still not happy that we need another new skill to learn |
Vayn Baxtor
Ultra High Ping Crew
74
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:36:00 -
[508] - Quote
Can't do this, can't do that - but a transformer-Marauder? :D Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
350
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:36:00 -
[509] - Quote
I remember that someone in F&I proposed a similar idea a few days ago. I think I made quite the bad jokes about that (or at least I wanted to)... I can't remember who initially posted that, but i still wanted to apologize... profoundly.
Seeing these stats makes me feel al warm and fuzzy.
I love you CCP Ytterbium. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 06:37:00 -
[510] - Quote
Rainhailer wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote: Also receives a weapons timer that prevents station docking or gate jumping
What about wormhole activations? A tenfold increase is mass will make them as massive as an Archon. Can a dreadnought jump through a WH when in seige mode? I'd expect these to behave in the same way. If they can jump, well that makes them a handy WH closing tool (for high-mass WHs), doesn't it? |
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