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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Gorn Arming
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
231
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:45:00 -
[901] - Quote
These changes make very little sense.
The inability to receive remote reps while sieged means that these ships will see no use in large fleets. That hardly seems necessary on a ship that's already bonused towards active tanking with only a moderate 30% resist bonus applying towards remote reps.
Further, because this module anchors the Marauder in place for its duration, it's going to be incredibly risky (meaning not cost-effective) to use one of these in nullsec or lowsec PvE.
These Marauders seem to provide yet another reason for everyone to move their money-making characters to highsec. Is that really what we want? |
Hikaru Kuroda
Shimai of New Eden
98
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:46:00 -
[902] - Quote
I don't really know what to think.
Seems a bit radical change for me... Let's see how they perform on test server. |
nahjustwarpin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:46:00 -
[903] - Quote
Please remember that instead of Siege module it has more to do with Triage module, Siege increases dps (drastically), It improves tank, but there isn't much problem in tanking with marauders anyway, and in pvp iyou'll be a sitting duck that needs to be alphaed with tornados. Bastion doesn't, it only slightly increases range. but with less drones you will do less dps than with old marauder, and you'll lose web bonus which reduces your dps at short range. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
46
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:47:00 -
[904] - Quote
Can you still jump a wormhole while in bastion mode? |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
81
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:52:00 -
[905] - Quote
Gorn Arming wrote:These changes make very little sense.
The inability to receive remote reps while sieged means that these ships will see no use in large fleets. That hardly seems necessary on a ship that's already bonused towards active tanking with only a moderate 30% resist bonus applying towards remote reps.
Further, because this module anchors the Marauder in place for its duration, it's going to be incredibly risky (meaning not cost-effective) to use one of these in nullsec or lowsec PvE.
These Marauders seem to provide yet another reason for everyone to move their money-making characters to highsec. Is that really what we want?
I dunno if your view isnt to fleet fight centered? The changes arent meant to be for big fleet fights its still a Highend PvE Ship and they clearly stated this in the OP.
Its a welcome change after 6 years of ignoring Marauders because Pirate Ships where simply better...
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
5922
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:54:00 -
[906] - Quote
Cant respond to this thread now...all blood rushing to pants area.... Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Auferre
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 19:57:00 -
[907] - Quote
Crazy idea. Completely nuts.
I'm going to need a macro that plays the Transformers theme song when I activate bastion mode. |
Gorn Arming
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
231
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:02:00 -
[908] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Gorn Arming wrote:These changes make very little sense.
The inability to receive remote reps while sieged means that these ships will see no use in large fleets. That hardly seems necessary on a ship that's already bonused towards active tanking with only a moderate 30% resist bonus applying towards remote reps.
Further, because this module anchors the Marauder in place for its duration, it's going to be incredibly risky (meaning not cost-effective) to use one of these in nullsec or lowsec PvE.
These Marauders seem to provide yet another reason for everyone to move their money-making characters to highsec. Is that really what we want? I dunno if your view isnt to fleet fight centered? The changes arent meant to be for big fleet fights its still a Highend PvE Ship and they clearly stated this in the OP. Its a welcome change after 6 years of ignoring Marauders because Pirate Ships where simply better... Fine--we'll rule them out of fleets entirely.
Why give a "high-end PvE ship" a module that will only be used in highsec PvE? Sieging your battleship in a nullsec anom will get you killed sooner or later (my bet's on sooner); doing it in highsec is nearly risk-free.
The addition of tackling rats to forsaken hubs in the last update was enough to make most Goons back off from Vindicators for nullsec PvE, and the amount of time you spend while tackled by rats in a Vindicator is far less than the amount you'll spend tackling yourself if you fire up one of these Marauder siege modules. |
nahjustwarpin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:05:00 -
[909] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:Gorn Arming wrote:These changes make very little sense.
The inability to receive remote reps while sieged means that these ships will see no use in large fleets. That hardly seems necessary on a ship that's already bonused towards active tanking with only a moderate 30% resist bonus applying towards remote reps.
Further, because this module anchors the Marauder in place for its duration, it's going to be incredibly risky (meaning not cost-effective) to use one of these in nullsec or lowsec PvE.
These Marauders seem to provide yet another reason for everyone to move their money-making characters to highsec. Is that really what we want? I dunno if your view isnt to fleet fight centered? The changes arent meant to be for big fleet fights its still a Highend PvE Ship and they clearly stated this in the OP. Its a welcome change after 6 years of ignoring Marauders because Pirate Ships where simply better...
with marauders speed and drone (slight dps) nerf and removal of web strength bonus pirate battleships will still be better |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
2
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Posted - 2013.08.30 20:06:00 -
[910] - Quote
Hmm, this is unique and fun CCP :),
For PvE those will a beast ships:
1) long range as needed. 2) 2 flights of small drones - sufficient for PvE (no idea why people ***** about that - I already use 2 flights of small drones and 1 flight of salvage drones in my Paladin). 3) I didn't like the web bonus - I could not hit frigs anyway , and everything else was shot down just fine. 4) insane omni tank - the resists are still low but with 135% rep bonus it does not matter. 5) ewar immunity will just make other ships obsolete in lvl 4 missions (hope it works on tracing disruption). 6) they could use small dps bonus (like 10% or 15 %) but will still be good without it.
However for PvP:
1) no buffer 2) no dps advantage 3) immobile 4) asking for tornado alpha strike 5) still can be caped out I imagine and killed by small gang 6) asking for dreadnoughts guns attention 7) can't be remotely repped (no one will fly such an expensive ship without remote reps) 8) no real advantage over anything currently in use 9) can dominate next Alliance Tournament but only in this form of PvP it has its uses.
So PvE you did a great job, PvP those ships are still useless. They are too expensive and too fragile to be used. They are still worse than Pirate BS and u know what? I donGÇÖt see Pirate BS used for PvP (ok was killed once by small gang with Mach, but those guys were running a sick combo :) ). Their main downside (both Pirate and Marauders) is that for their massive price tag they have lower survivability that Command Ships and T3, and often don't have much higher dps (paper dps while its application is much worse that on commands and T3). They can have much HP but they suck with resists. So:
1) redesign marauders (unlikely and I love your changes for PvE) 2) fix Pirate BS (more likely) 3) Introduce new type of BS with T2 resists, T2 damage so its massive price would be justified by its advantages over commands and t3.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4560
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:06:00 -
[911] - Quote
Gorn Arming wrote:These changes make very little sense.
The inability to receive remote reps while sieged means that these ships will see no use in large fleets. That hardly seems necessary on a ship that's already bonused towards active tanking with only a moderate 30% resist bonus applying towards remote reps.
Further, because this module anchors the Marauder in place for its duration, it's going to be incredibly risky (meaning not cost-effective) to use one of these in nullsec or lowsec PvE.
These Marauders seem to provide yet another reason for everyone to move their money-making characters to highsec. Is that really what we want? Well, they've already designed it to not be an optimal ship for large fleet actions, so that really isn't what they have in mind for it.
PVE activites and small/medium gang activities appear to be it's cup of tea. I think we'll see them used in Null sec for PVE purposes in well secured/scouted area's, but I doubt they will see much (long term) use in Low sec.
It wouldn't surprise me to see small groups of them on gate camp duty in Null, where you'll have a pretty accurate idea if those folks coming through the gate are strong enough to over run your bastion deployed ships, but low sec camps usually don't have that precise of intel at their disposal. Of course, it would have to be a force with a sizable advantage in numbers to make much headway against a group of properly deployed Marauders that can cover each other. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:06:00 -
[912] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Hmm, this is unique and fun CCP :),
For PvE those will a be great ships:
1) long range as needed. 2) 2 flights of small drones - sufficient for PvE (no idea why people ***** about that - I already use 2 flights of small drones and 1 flight of salvage drones in my Paladin). 3) I didn't like the web bonus - I could not hit frigs anyway , and everything else was shot down just fine. 4) insane omni tank - the resists are still low but with 135% rep bonus it does not matter. 5) ewar immunity will just make other ships obsolete in lvl 4 missions (hope it works on tracing disruption). 6) they could use small dps bonus (like 10% or 15 %) but will still be good without it.
However for PvP:
1) no buffer 2) no dps advantage 3) immobile 4) asking for tornado alpha strike 5) still can be caped out I imagine and killed by small gang 6) asking for dreadnoughts guns attention 7) can't be remotely repped (no one will fly such an expensive ship without remote reps) 8) no real advantage over anything currently in use 9) can dominate next Alliance Tournament but only in this form of PvP it has its uses.
So PvE you did a great job, PvP those ships are still useless. They are too expensive and too fragile to be used. They are still worse than Pirate BS and u know what? I donGÇÖt see Pirate BS used for PvP (ok was killed once by small gang with Mach, but those guys were running a sick combo :) ). Their main downside (both Pirate and Marauders) is that for their massive price tag they have lower survivability that Command Ships and T3, and often don't have much higher dps (paper dps while its application is much worse that on commands and T3). They can have much HP but they suck with resists. So:
1) redesign marauders (unlikely and I love your changes for PvE) 2) fix Pirate BS (more likely) 3) Introduce new type of BS with T2 resists, T2 damage so its massive price would be justified by its advantages over commands and t3.
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
2
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:07:00 -
[913] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Hmm, this is unique and fun CCP :),
For PvE those will a be great ships:
1) long range as needed. 2) 2 flights of small drones - sufficient for PvE (no idea why people ***** about that - I already use 2 flights of small drones and 1 flight of salvage drones in my Paladin). 3) I didn't like the web bonus - I could not hit frigs anyway , and everything else was shot down just fine. 4) insane omni tank - the resists are still low but with 135% rep bonus it does not matter. 5) ewar immunity will just make other ships obsolete in lvl 4 missions (hope it works on tracking disruption). 6) they could use small dps bonus (like 10% or 15 %) but will still be good without it.
However for PvP:
1) no buffer 2) no dps advantage 3) immobile 4) asking for tornado alpha strike 5) still can be caped out I imagine and killed by small gang 6) asking for dreadnoughts guns attention 7) can't be remotely repped (no one will fly such an expensive ship without remote reps) 8) no real advantage over anything currently in use 9) can dominate next Alliance Tournament but only in this form of PvP it has its uses.
So PvE you did a great job, PvP those ships are still useless. They are too expensive and too fragile to be used. They are still worse than Pirate BS and u know what? I donGÇÖt see Pirate BS used for PvP (ok was killed once by small gang with Mach, but those guys were running a sick combo :) ). Their main downside (both Pirate and Marauders) is that for their massive price tag they have lower survivability that Command Ships and T3, and often don't have much higher dps (paper dps while its application is much worse that on commands and T3). They can have much HP but they suck with resists. So:
1) redesign marauders (unlikely and I love your changes for PvE) 2) fix Pirate BS (more likely) 3) Introduce new type of BS with T2 resists, T2 damage so its massive price would be justified by its advantages over commands and t3.
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Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
82
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:07:00 -
[914] - Quote
Gorn Arming wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:Gorn Arming wrote:These changes make very little sense.
The inability to receive remote reps while sieged means that these ships will see no use in large fleets. That hardly seems necessary on a ship that's already bonused towards active tanking with only a moderate 30% resist bonus applying towards remote reps.
Further, because this module anchors the Marauder in place for its duration, it's going to be incredibly risky (meaning not cost-effective) to use one of these in nullsec or lowsec PvE.
These Marauders seem to provide yet another reason for everyone to move their money-making characters to highsec. Is that really what we want? I dunno if your view isnt to fleet fight centered? The changes arent meant to be for big fleet fights its still a Highend PvE Ship and they clearly stated this in the OP. Its a welcome change after 6 years of ignoring Marauders because Pirate Ships where simply better... Fine--we'll rule them out of fleets entirely. Why give a "high-end PvE ship" a module that will only be used in highsec PvE? Sieging your battleship in a nullsec anom will get you killed sooner or later (my bet's on sooner); doing it in highsec is nearly risk-free. The addition of tackling rats to forsaken hubs in the last update was enough to make most Goons back off from Vindicators for nullsec PvE, and the amount of time you spend while tackled by rats in a Vindicator is far less than the amount you'll spend tackling yourself if you fire up one of these Marauder siege modules.
Your right, but there are few people (like me) who dont fly solo lvl 5 or class 5/6 Wormholes or Incursions... maybe i am to spoiled from other MMOs but i am really interested to see our Corp flying some PvE Stuff together and have fun.
Sure, you Goons will still screw us, solo or not but i dont have problems with that.
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Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
178
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:10:00 -
[915] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:for PVP, do you really think your marauder will suddenly become a fortress able to tank 20000 dps alone? No, you won't even have enough buffer to survive 5 seconds of 50 sentry domis hitting you at once
Are you suggesting that a single bastioned Marauder is NOT an effective counter against 50 sentry Domis? Madness, I say!
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4560
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:13:00 -
[916] - Quote
Markku Laaksonen wrote:nahjustwarpin wrote:for PVP, do you really think your marauder will suddenly become a fortress able to tank 20000 dps alone? No, you won't even have enough buffer to survive 5 seconds of 50 sentry domis hitting you at once Are you suggesting that a single bastioned Marauder is NOT an effective counter against 50 sentry Domis? Madness, I say! Everyone knows that unless a ship can do that it's worthless, pffft. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
nahjustwarpin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:22:00 -
[917] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Markku Laaksonen wrote:nahjustwarpin wrote:for PVP, do you really think your marauder will suddenly become a fortress able to tank 20000 dps alone? No, you won't even have enough buffer to survive 5 seconds of 50 sentry domis hitting you at once Are you suggesting that a single bastioned Marauder is NOT an effective counter against 50 sentry Domis? Madness, I say! Everyone knows that unless a ship can do that it's worthless, pffft.
maybe read what it was response to someone? Yes it was, to your post suggesting that you'll be able to withstand alpha strike of domis https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3551763#post3551763 |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4560
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:25:00 -
[918] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Markku Laaksonen wrote:nahjustwarpin wrote:for PVP, do you really think your marauder will suddenly become a fortress able to tank 20000 dps alone? No, you won't even have enough buffer to survive 5 seconds of 50 sentry domis hitting you at once Are you suggesting that a single bastioned Marauder is NOT an effective counter against 50 sentry Domis? Madness, I say! Everyone knows that unless a ship can do that it's worthless, pffft. maybe read what it was response to someone? Yes it was, to your post suggesting that you'll be able to withstand alpha strike of domis https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3551763#post3551763 It's called sarcasm, which is admittedly sometimes difficult to recognize on the internet. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Tarn Kugisa
Infinite Covenant Tribal Band
439
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:36:00 -
[919] - Quote
please make the golem like the phoenix we need more space bunkers I Endorse this Product and/or Service EVE Online Battle Recorder When I press F1 I get ISK |
Ellendras Silver
Honestly We didnt know
92
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Posted - 2013.08.30 20:37:00 -
[920] - Quote
about bastion mode
Quote: When in bastion mode, Marauder speed is set to 0 m/s, mass is increased by a factor of 10, cannot warp. Also receives a weapons timer that prevents station docking or gate jumping. Weapon time should not require the user to drop weapon safeties in high-sec (being investigated)
can you still go through a WH if in bastion mode? because if you cant what use is the 10x mass ?
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Invisusira
The Rising Stars The Initiative.
210
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Posted - 2013.08.30 20:42:00 -
[921] - Quote
ps this is all cool but can we please get Odyssey 1.1 Core Skills | EVE Music | Internet Spaceship Killboard Link |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
299
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Posted - 2013.08.30 20:43:00 -
[922] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote: As already noted, these boys will do fine on their own in small to medium sized engagements, but have been purpose designed to not be the ship of choice for a large fleet battle.
They won't actually kill anything unless they can either alpha it or kill it before it pulls range and warps (even a non-prop mod BS can do this). Leaving the 90% web bonuses intact and adding them to the other 2 marauders might make this feasible however.
So then you have to include tackle which to be useful tackle against the kind of foes this marauder will be useful for will require some logistics to keep it (the tackle) alive. So you might as well just bring more logis and more mobile faction BS.
Or am I seeing this wrong?
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Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
179
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:45:00 -
[923] - Quote
Invisusira wrote:ps this is all cool but can we please get Odyssey 1.1
I'm already interested in more [Winter] stuff. I had been following all the command ship and marauder proposed changes and things, but I still assumed T2 re-balancing would start with frigs and work its way up. |
Jordanna Bauer
My Other Capital Ship is Your Mom
43
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Posted - 2013.08.30 20:48:00 -
[924] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:You just get a weapon timer (requires security to be turned off though). This is a really stupid idea. Why would using it in high sec trigger a weapons timer? Just make it so you can't dock while bastion is active. Turning safety off for PvE is extremely counterintuitive. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
84
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 20:52:00 -
[925] - Quote
Jordanna Bauer wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:You just get a weapon timer (requires security to be turned off though). This is a really stupid idea. Why would using it in high sec trigger a weapons timer? Just make it so you can't dock while bastion is active. Turning safety off for PvE is extremely counterintuitive.
They already revoke that. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5739
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 21:14:00 -
[926] - Quote
I know the stacking penalty doesn't apply to the resistance bonus on the bastion module, but what about the optimal/falloff bonuses, the repair amount bonus, and the missile velocity bonus? IMO it really should not be stacking penalized.
Also it would be amazing if there were a tracking bonus on the module as well. My Youtube Channel Latest video: August 25, 2013 |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
2208
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 21:27:00 -
[927] - Quote
Good question there from James Amril-Kesh.
I'd also like to know if bastion modules are the same category as damage controls and reactive armor hardeners (for those who don't know, they stacking penalize each other), so e.g. if I have a damage control, a reactive armor hardener (not that I ever would in their current form) and a bastion module fitted, will they be stacking penalized?
All in all I have to say - interesting - I'm too confused with the changes to decide if I like them or not, but anything is better than marauders in their current form.
The Bastion module needs to give a DPS boost though. You know... morons. |
Snopzet
Inglourious Squirrels SoulWing Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 21:29:00 -
[928] - Quote
What about....
add 100% reduction of weapon reload time while in bastion mode?
So you can instantly switch between long range and short range, or the damage type. Amarr would lose their advantage but well, the Paladin can pull out 1350+ dps, so why not buff the others a little bit. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4560
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 21:39:00 -
[929] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Good question there from James Amril-Kesh.
I'd also like to know if bastion modules are the same category as damage controls and reactive armor hardeners (for those who don't know, they stacking penalize each other), so e.g. if I have a damage control, a reactive armor hardener (not that I ever would in their current form) and a bastion module fitted, will they be stacking penalized?
All in all I have to say - interesting - I'm too confused with the changes to decide if I like them or not, but anything is better than marauders in their current form. Hey, thanks for that. I didn't realize damage controls and reactive armor hardeners stacked against each other.
You know... I don't really think they are supposed to. Bug perhaps?
Regardless, none of those modules "should" penalize each other... its rather the point of having them. If the do (by design) it then it needs a re-think.
I also support a tracking bonus, it would seem a natural thing for a ship that will be stationary a lot of the time.
If these ships are supposed to be viable for large fleet fights (and I know the current thinking is that they are not, but things can change) a bonus to Target Spectrum Breakers would seem to be a logical choice considering their isolated nature.
But those modules really need to be reworked. They should not break your own lock, ever, although I can see them being effective against friendly locks (logistics) because how the hell would they know right? But in the case of Marauders that wouldn't matter, as they can't make use of logistics anyway. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
nahjustwarpin
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
83
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 21:39:00 -
[930] - Quote
i think this mod should burn fuel (like nanite paste) and should have activation cycle (20-30 seconds) increasing it's dps, turrets/launchers attributes( optimals/falloff/velocity by say 25%), armor/shield repper power (again 25 or 50% or so) but also increasing ab/mwd speed increase by like 100-200%. This mod shouldn't make ship immobile |
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