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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
91
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:00:00 -
[1141] - Quote
The Problem is without Logi the 50 Marauders would die faster then the 2-3 Supercaps you where aming, and please stop making the PvE King into a +£ber PvP Vessel. Its still a T2 Ship. |
Kikusama
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
24
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:01:00 -
[1142] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:The Problem is without Logi the 50 Marauders would die faster then the 2-3 Supercaps you where aming, and please stop making the PvE King into a +£ber PvP Vessel. Its still a T2 Ship.
Not to supercarriers or titans, remember the nerfs.
Guns make the news. Science doesn't. |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
91
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:06:00 -
[1143] - Quote
If you want your quadrillion dps Monster wait for Black Ops changes, leave my Paladin alone! ;-) |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
272
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:19:00 -
[1144] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Harvey James wrote:so when in bastion mode does it get bonuses from warfare links? Should, though most link bonuses are subject to normal stacking-penalty rules for their bonus type, so 2 Invuls and then a resist link doesn't get you much. well if you can't rep it why should it get to benefit from links?
Why not? Bastion mode is somehow interferes with incoming remote rep beams, but sensors and other electronic systems are fine. Links represent specialized superior management of ship systems, so work on communication channels. At least as far as fluff is concerned.
Mechanically links don't stack like remote reps do.
I'd personally love to see the bastion concept pushed further into it throwing a field that protected other ships the same way, so that the Marauder anchored a small fleet with superior defense. Base the projected bastion bonus off leadership skills.
I'd also love to see the opposite, where it had a series of offensive ae modules that threw web bubbles, neut bubbles, etc... Making it the center of an offensive front, and a bit more appropriate to the class name of marauder.
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
962
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:52:00 -
[1145] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Harvey James wrote:so when in bastion mode does it get bonuses from warfare links? Should, though most link bonuses are subject to normal stacking-penalty rules for their bonus type, so 2 Invuls and then a resist link doesn't get you much. well if you can't rep it why should it get to benefit from links?
Why don't apples taste like oranges?
Putting work in since 2010. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1400
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:08:00 -
[1146] - Quote
Adwokat Diabla wrote:These will be:
-broken for pve, especially plexing, and probably whing -impossible for any small gang to break -medium/large fleets will just scram and probably alpha through any self-given reps
These just don't seem like a good addition to the game.
after sleeping on it, i tend to agree with this one. the bonuses to resists and repairs are so over the top that marauders become the ultimate solo pve pimpmobile bar none, obsoleting all other hulls. in incursions they lose their role as web providers to the vindicator and are thus if not useless, then at least strongly disadvantaged. in pvp, their designed play style may or may not shake up the meta game but my guess is that players who can afford to pvp with a 1bil hull will not give up their mobility advantage for some range and active reps.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Elisheva Cohane
Les Ricochets
6
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:14:00 -
[1147] - Quote
Will you still need the racial BS skill to 5 for all Marauders, or will there be a reduction similar to Carriers?
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Kaeden Dourhand
T.O.R.
5
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:19:00 -
[1148] - Quote
Interesting radio silence from the dev side.
Are you disregarding the noise from the community CCP, or are you simply debating things internally atm? |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
962
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:23:00 -
[1149] - Quote
Kikusama wrote:Kikusama wrote:Looks good in general with 2 addendums: - 400-500% increase in DPS whilst in bastion mode will put these right between normal battleships and dreadnoughts; - they all need 90% webs.
Basically with a fleet of these you'd get what you'd get with tracking dreads and vindis, only a lot more mobile.
PvE wise this would make these preferable to pirate battleships, without really trampling all over their territory (if you want to blitz stuff you can still use the Mach for example, if you want to obliterate everything bastion up a Vargur). Quoting myself and adding in stuff. If you're worried about the huge DPS increase, give the bastion module a tracking penalty, so it can hit caps/supercaps and miss on smaller stuff. Also, this might be a cool counter to supercaps, instead of dropping 50 dreads, drop 100 marauders, yes/no? With these things taking minimal damage from fighters/fighter-bombers, should be p. interesting LE: Better yet, drop the bastion module, make the siege module a non-capital module and make it fittable to Marauders with a decreased damage bonus (1/2 of what the damage bonus is on Dreads). Make it consume less stront as well when fitted to Marauders. No need for an additional skill. Cheaper counter to caps/supercaps than dreads, limited by the limited insurance payout.
I think the idea is to make them more appealing to the pvp masses, not more niche.
A 25% damage increase would truly make them a mini dread and it's not like they would be stepping on the toes of pirate faction battleships, because they can only do that damage in bastion (stupid name btw).
The real shame is that the increased mass makes then unviable for wormhole pvp :(
Putting work in since 2010. |
Zaxix
Long Jump.
227
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:27:00 -
[1150] - Quote
Kaeden Dourhand wrote:Interesting radio silence from the dev side.
Are you disregarding the noise from the community CCP, or are you simply debating things internally atm? If you're going to criticize their response time, perhaps you should go back through the thread. Go to the OP and click the blue dev tag. It will take you to the next dev tag and so on. They've already done quite a few things. Bokononist
-á |
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Zaxix
Long Jump.
227
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:31:00 -
[1151] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:I am a sadpuppy that 80% of this Thread is just ignorant or "to-stupid-to-read", please no changes CCP we dont want something New we just want just better and more expensive **** like in WoW, bigger is better, T3>T1 at any means give us MOAR!!!!!
Complaining about complaining. How meta Bokononist
-á |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
171
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:34:00 -
[1152] - Quote
Kaeden Dourhand wrote:Interesting radio silence from the dev side.
Are you disregarding the noise from the community CCP, or are you simply debating things internally atm?
Now I am not a big fan of the proposal but it is Saturday. I certainly don't expect any posts till Monday. |
EXIA MIKOSZ
Strike Birds Zero
15
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:36:00 -
[1153] - Quote
Zaxix wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Just another quick update.
- We are removing the BASTION TRANSFORMERTHINGIEGäó SKILL, as the name was just too awesome to be released to the public (ok ok, more seriously we got the point: having to train a new rank 8 skill just for this module wasn't appealing). Instead, the bastion mode will use high energy physics 4 and energy grid upgrades 5. The former is rank 5, the later you already need to fly the class. The bastion mode cycle time will be reduced to 60s by default to compensate.
- We hear you regarding having to drop the safeties to use the bastion mode in high-sec - we're going to fix it so you don't have to drop them to use the module. However you'll still receive a weapon timer when activating it.
Adjusting OP to reflect this. EDIT: remember all of this is subject to change - training high energy physics is at your own risk if the bastion mode skill requirements change. I like this quick feedback thing. More please! swap tractor for something awesome
If you don't Use Tractor on Marauders doesn't mean they are useless for other Players Why many of you Crying about this Tractor Bonus?Its Small thing but very usefull for many of us As you Can See CCP like to keep this so Please..............
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2650
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:52:00 -
[1154] - Quote
Yo ccp, i know you sometimes feel the need to listen to player feedback. That's great and all, and though I too have felt the sting of feeling like I'm not bieng listened to (Blood Raider Naval Ship yard damn it! :) ) but this one time I'll say this: STAY THE COURSE.
You're trying to bring something new and interesting to a class of sub-capital ships that never been seen in this game before. Like you did with the loot spew/exploration mini-game and other things, you guys really need to stick to your guns. people tend to be very "reactionary" when you change something they think is mostly fine or that they benefit from, and you are seeing that reaction right here right now.
Keep up the good work. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
299
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:56:00 -
[1155] - Quote
The more I look at the idea the more it seems to me its a great idea hamstrung by being applied to the wrong ships and the wrong platform (marauders).
Its a perfect fit for the hyperion, rokh, maelstrom, etc. hulls - hyperion hull especially would finally get the kind of ability the hull looks like it was designed for, the golem for instance has so many issues with this kind of use.
Can be designed to better fit in with the skill train towards dreads than marauder skills are - which would be a good niche for these type of ships.
Can be priced at a level that would see them used more in PVP - typical marauder prices don't really lend themselves well to this style.
Can be given bonuses and abilities that better enhance the bastion mode to make them useful in both PVE and PVP without the effectiveness being reduced by working around the legacy implementation of the current marauder styles.
All in all seems like the idea would live upto its full potential better by being a new T2 line of battleships than as an evolution of the marauder.
IMO for marauders to live upto what they are supposed to be they need to be made to some extent modular - possibly that means Tech3 but I don't think they need to go to the extent of strategic cruisers i.e. only 2-3 sub-systems per type - the ability to have some granularity between PVP and PVE use in their bonuses is needed as well as the ability to compromise between sensor strength and ewar strength bonuses - along with some kind of overheating bonus/feature which gives them that hard hitting ability but without the capability to sustain it as per the description. |
Abdullah Bahdoon
Somali Initiative for Dialogue and Posting
0
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Posted - 2013.08.31 17:05:00 -
[1156] - Quote
Great job regarding the TPs . As for the bastion module , I think it's ok as it is for now (no cap or fuel usage). Concerning the skill needed to operate it, 5x or 6x time multiplier should do just fine for a subcapital hull . |
Leskit
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
47
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Posted - 2013.08.31 17:11:00 -
[1157] - Quote
Kaeden Dourhand wrote:Interesting radio silence from the dev side.
Are you disregarding the noise from the community CCP, or are you simply debating things internally atm? the csm summer summit is just wrapped up, and probably the latter. I'd expect at best casual posts this weekend, or at worst, monday. |
Flyinghotpocket
Nasranite Watch OLD MAN GANG
170
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 17:13:00 -
[1158] - Quote
for 1billion isk and will not be getting remote reps. i want t2 resistances. DAMMIT |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
91
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 17:21:00 -
[1159] - Quote
Zaxix wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:I am a sadpuppy that 80% of this Thread is just ignorant or "to-stupid-to-read", please no changes CCP we dont want something New we just want just better and more expensive **** like in WoW, bigger is better, T3>T1 at any means give us MOAR!!!!!
Complaining about complaining. How meta
Look, if someone lacks any self-reflection you have to point that loud out. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4565
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 17:24:00 -
[1160] - Quote
Danica Fox wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:hmskrecik wrote:"What I could do with this ship" but "What if 1000 Goons fielded that ships against me" question. This question boils to, do you still want them to be as kickass as you say? Atm: *Phew, could've been actual battleships* this makes me loaugh hard! and its the truth too ^^ Did you two actually read what he wrote?
If most of the changes people have vomited up as alternatives came to be you'd be dead in the above situation in anything less than another Marauder fleet. His point is that the "better idea's" being thrown around would make Marauders the defacto fleet doctrine of any large alliance.
And he'd be correct in that. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
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Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
100
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 17:28:00 -
[1161] - Quote
In general I like the changes, though I'm not sure such a drastic speed reduction was necessary.
I do have one suggestion (which may have already been mentioned; thread is too long for me to read it all right now): change the Paladin optimal bonus to a tracking bonus. The reason being is that these ships are likely to be used in small gang actions more than massive fleets, and the optimal range bonus' utility isn't very useful when the targets are up close (as they are likely to be if your marauder has to go in and tackle because your gang isn't sufficiently large to have a group of dedicated tacklers). Moreover, pulse lasers already have excellent range. While this would be increased by the bonus, please keep in mind that these are battleship-class weapons and have a lot of trouble hitting smaller, faster targets. In small gang combat, the ability to track becomes much more important than a range bonus that has no utility against targets up close. Sure, you could MJD out to range, but then you can't provide tackling or energy neutralization assistance to the rest of your gang.
As a final note regarding that, all of the other marauders get a bonus to tracking or its equivalent, so the Paladin would seem to be the odd man out in that regard. While diversity is good, when it conflicts with the intended role of the ship (as I understand it), then it may need to be passed up for a more conventional bonus. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
23
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Posted - 2013.08.31 17:35:00 -
[1162] - Quote
Kaeden Dourhand wrote:Interesting radio silence from the dev side.
Are you disregarding the noise from the community CCP, or are you simply debating things internally atm?
Could be the weekend... and they're probably mostly at home. Life and stuff.
Add fuel. Every other module in the game similar to the bastion module requires fuel. Add fuel. Make it whatever you want, but add it and a fuel bay.
Also, don't decrease a skill time because it's inconvenient. Seige, triage, Logistics, Battleship, Marauders, Fleet boosting skills are all long. For a reason. Cause they're worth it. Add T2 Bastion when you get T1 bastion balanced, and leave it a long skill. Why? Cause it'll be worth it.
A slight damage increase while bastioned would be awesome too, but can't have everything, and as I understand it these ships are about projection more than raw DPS, though a DPS increase in the form of RoF does, to me, make more sense than an optimal or flight speed bonus.
All other changes on the marauders are very exciting. Keep up the Good work!
P.S. I want an Autobot symbol on my Kronos please :D The Law is a point of View |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
335
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 17:41:00 -
[1163] - Quote
Kaeden Dourhand wrote:Interesting radio silence from the dev side.
Are you disregarding the noise from the community CCP, or are you simply debating things internally atm?
eh, its the weekend You can trust me, I have a monocole |
Wrayeth
Inexorable Retribution
101
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Posted - 2013.08.31 17:43:00 -
[1164] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Hey Wrayeth, as a side note, can you imagine the havok Burn Eden would have inflicted on Null Sec entry systems with this proposal? A couple of bubbles and tackler/webbers at the gate, a couple of Marauders at 100km... the tears would be hilarious.
LOL, yeah. Pookie and Co. would've loved it! (And those of us who weren't part of Burn Eden would've hated it. )
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Kaeden Dourhand
T.O.R.
5
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Posted - 2013.08.31 17:47:00 -
[1165] - Quote
Leskit wrote:Kaeden Dourhand wrote:Interesting radio silence from the dev side.
Are you disregarding the noise from the community CCP, or are you simply debating things internally atm? the csm summer summit is just wrapped up, and probably the latter. I'd expect at best casual posts this weekend, or at worst, monday.
Fair enough, cheers. |
Azriel X
Fyght Club SpaceMonkey's Alliance
26
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Posted - 2013.08.31 17:52:00 -
[1166] - Quote
Xqpvqsvs Qr'atyuqink wrote:ur math is somewhat wrong and u are failing to realize that missiles are not turrets and they need time to hit the target. Not even talking about situation where your targets is warping away before your missiles hit him. Moreover at longer range most of players are shooting more missiles than its needed, eg when u are firing another volley of missiles when previous is still in space flying to target. If that first volley finishes target, the second volley is not going to another target but just flying into space doing nothing. If your missiles got 100km range with 10km/s and 10secs flight time, increasing speed by 25% will result in 12,5km/s speed * 10secs = 125km range If your turrets got for example 100km optimal and 100km falloff, increasing both for 25% will make your optimal 100km + 25% = 125km and your fallof 100km + 25% = 125km, so u will be able to deal full damage at 125km and half damage at 250km. Missiles cant do half damage at twice of their optimal since they dont have fallof. Your target can have 1 hp sitting at 1 meter above your missiles optimal and u wont kill him. And dont say word about tracking since turrets got tracking issues only if target is close enought while missiles got their issues no matter if target is close or far away (explosion velocity thing). U can counter tracking on turreted ship by moving at proper direction (for example away from target), but u cant counter low explosion velocity of your missiles.
This is why missles are dead... V_V
Although apparently rumors are going around about new missile weapon upgrades soon to come. |
Crysantos Callahan
EntroPrelatial Industria Here Be Dragons
5
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Posted - 2013.08.31 17:54:00 -
[1167] - Quote
I think it's good first step in rebalancing those ships, I'd suggest to give missile boats an explosion velocity bonus.
But the really reall really important thing is to make the bastion mode only work in low/null sec, don't make highsec carebearing even more attractive than it already is. This could be a good thing to lure people in lower sec |
Jasmine Assasin
State War Academy Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.08.31 17:56:00 -
[1168] - Quote
Some things I'd like to see looked at are;
A) An extra slot, a low for the Golem (at least) and maybe a mid for the others. My reasoning is that the Golem has the same maximum DPS as all the other Caldari missile Battleships and sacrificing a low for a DCII means I lose out on that damage and I would be better off sticking to a Navy Scorpion...It has a better slot layout, tank for days, and does the same DPS. Oh and it's faster so I can fit a prop mod and move around the field much more conveniently w/o a bunch of on the fly math. Yes I could fit a 4th BCU on the Golem but then the tank isn't as good as what I have now (unless I'm in transformer mode of course but why bother when base tank is enough the DPS doesn't improve at all or gets worse because of it?)...and I don't need to do tricks to keep doing the same job (or train Marauders V either...). For PvE the Golem tank is well more than enough now..
Just think you guys need to look into this a bit more.
B) Mass reduction, etc. I think all penalties need tied to the Bastion module and not to the ship hulls themselves. This means that players that use the hulls now can continue to do so without changing much but players that want to use the bastion module will gain the disadvantages and advantages of doing so as appropriate. This seems a lot more fair to the people that have trained these ships (and Marauders V) and use them on a regular bases and I doubt it would break anything for anybody else. |
Samas Sarum
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
52
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Posted - 2013.08.31 17:57:00 -
[1169] - Quote
My immediate thoughts
(1) Why doesn't the Golem have a damage bonus like all others? If cruise missiles do too much damage, than fix cruise missiles as this always creates unneeded arguing in feedback threads. Can we please just give all ships a damage bonus if for no toher reason than so we don't derail feedback threads so easily?
(2) Why does the Paladin have a capacity bonus? The other ships have a damage application bonus, see #1 as to why this is a bad idea. If the Paladin needs a bonus to capacitor due to large energy weapons, then just bake it into the hull numbers.
(3) I agree with the previous posters, why do these ships still have a bonus to tractor beams? This was an archaic bonus from before Noctis days and is no longer needed or wanted. |
Jasmine Assasin
State War Academy Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 17:58:00 -
[1170] - Quote
Crysantos Callahan wrote:I think it's good first step in rebalancing those ships, I'd suggest to give missile boats an explosion velocity bonus.
But the really reall really important thing is to make the bastion mode only work in low/null sec, don't make highsec carebearing even more attractive than it already is. This could be a good thing to lure people in lower sec
Role Bonus: 100% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo damage, 100% bonus to range and velocity of tractor beams, 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo velocity 5% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo explosion velocity per level
Marauders Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to shield boost amount 10% bonus to effectiveness of target painters per level
Emphasis mine. |
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