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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
98
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 22:55:00 -
[1861] - Quote
Altrue wrote:I still think that : 1- Speed shouldn't be nerfed. Loosing time this way is paradoxical for the ultime PvE ship. :/
2- Tractor beam range should match the weapon's range. How good is it to kill a BS at 95km with a golem if I can't loot it ? Do I need to MJD just to reach it ?
3- Last but not least, there has to be a variation of the bastion module that drastically cuts tracking and sig resolution but increases damages, for structure shooting.
Point 2 and 3, come on, for a 1b hull, that's the minimum we could get !
1. It's a tiny speed nerf, especially if you use the MJD/triangles or use a MWD.
2. Sure, why not? Though honestly increasing their tractor range isn't really going to break anything.
3. No, we do not need "Dread-blap Junior". For reference a Moros only does about 1500 DPS without Siege. Dreads were removed from high-sec for a reason. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
57
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 23:04:00 -
[1862] - Quote
Zeus Maximo wrote:[quote=Onictus][quote=Zeus Maximo]
What is easier to hit? A moving target or a stationary one?
.
It depends if you are moving or not as what matters is transversal and that number is the same for you and the stationary target. Assuming someone orbiting then it is likely that they maintain a higher transversal on a stationary target than a moving one and thus the stationary target is harder to hit. Also i read quite a lot of your posts and they are pretty much wrong in every way possible. |
Vayn Baxtor
Ultra High Ping Crew
76
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 23:04:00 -
[1863] - Quote
Quote: A Marauder is a T2 specialized ship. Specialized in doing PVE, in PVE should it be "King of the hill" not more, not less. Not every ship must be balanced or raped to be in a PVP role, which never was planed for (sensor strenght). Most users of these ship, use them as a PVE platform. Only a few used them at PVP in a niche PVP (WH Kronos).
So balance them as a PVE monster, but not with a bastion mode. A ship hull with these pricetag, should stay for what the name Marauder say. I must not the fastet one, not the one with the most ehp or the best tank. It should be the best in the niche it's designed for. The Marauder stays for: PVE.
Every ship class has it's role, i would enjoy to fly my Marauders with my friends and i don't like the idea, to use an other ship for a PVE incursion with my friends. I don't want to hear: bring a Pirate BS to the incursion, we can't remote rep you anymore.
If you want to PVP use an other ship class, there are enough out there. Pirate ships i have heard, should be good at it or designed for? Or are the Pirate BS better for PVE than a dedicated ship?
Another thing to add: Thing is that PVE ships always bleed into PVP. I am just saying it might be advisable to keep them niche or else we will have more PVE kings bringing imbalance to PVP - To a point how T3 can dominate the field once somebody loads a fleet full of them. T3 should be balanced some time around so there is no reason to sidetrack on that subject.
But things really need to be thought through. Aside to the literal meaning of Tiericide, I was under the impression Tiericide should not only make unpopular ships more popular but also balance it in a way that we don't just people grabbing the same ships just because they facemelt stuff with ease. Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all. |
TZeer
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
18
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Posted - 2013.09.03 23:06:00 -
[1864] - Quote
- A battleship - Costs $$$$$ - Market it as a tool for smaller fights and gangs - Give it a module that locks it into place for 60 sec - Scan time of <5 sec with probes.... - Single frig can easily move 100km in 20 sec
Yepp, yeah, I can really see this ship work great....
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Baggo Hammers
61
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Posted - 2013.09.03 23:07:00 -
[1865] - Quote
I look forward to these changes. Almost a "Transformers" quality. Now drones that can be transformed! If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
189
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 23:25:00 -
[1866] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote: Oh yes, and forgot to mention with a proper deadspace X-L shield booster and a good tank, a single Vargur or Golem can tank the first wave of a Vanguard Incursion by itself. Sure, damage isn't that good when you do (you can't use cap booster, go through charges too fast, thus have to go for cap stable ), but the fact remains it's still possible. Even discussing that very fact with other designers as it most likely is far too OP for PvE. Can you do the same with a deadspace or officer LAR fit Kronos or Paladin?
Otherwise, just more evidence of shield dominance What else is new? |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
98
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 23:25:00 -
[1867] - Quote
TZeer wrote:- A battleship - Costs $$$$$ - Market it as a tool for smaller fights and gangs - Give it a module that locks it into place for 60 sec - Scan time of <5 sec with probes.... - Single frig can easily move 100km in 20 sec Yepp, yeah, I can really see this ship work great....
PvE focused. Niche PvP use. Not a zomg-god ship.
Working as intended.
Vayn Baxtor wrote:Another thing to add: Thing is that PVE ships always bleed into PVP. I am just saying it might be advisable to keep them niche or else we will have more PVE kings bringing imbalance to PVP - To a point how T3 can dominate the field once somebody loads a fleet full of them. T3 should be balanced some time around so there is no reason to sidetrack on that subject.
But things really need to be thought through. Aside to the literal meaning of Tiericide, I was under the impression Tiericide should not only make unpopular ships more popular but also balance it in a way that we don't just people grabbing the same ships just because they facemelt stuff with ease.
Couple of points:
T3s were never intended to be PvE ships, the player base looked at them initially and said "SP loss!?!?! No way anyone would PvP in that!!!". Then they realized that they didn't die very often or easily and that you could mitigate the SP loss by only training the skills to 4 along with a few other things and T3 fleets happened.
You are indeed correct about what the tiericide is supposed to accomplish and is indeed accomplishing. However, some people in this thread still want every ship to have the best DPS/tank/ect
Baggo Hammers wrote:I look forward to these changes. Almost a "Transformers" quality. Now drones that can be transformed!
What, the little X's turn into +'s or something? |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
597
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 23:38:00 -
[1868] - Quote
It totally breaks PvE, and I wonder what happens if you use this in the next AT....
It's neither balanced, nor useful in PvP - which is what all ships in this PVP FOCUSED game should be based around. Not working as intended.
Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
99
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 23:46:00 -
[1869] - Quote
Pattern Clarc wrote:It totally breaks PvE, and I wonder what happens if you use this in the next AT....
It's neither balanced, nor useful in PvP - which is what all ships in this PVP FOCUSED game should be based around. Not working as intended.
Did you even read the OP? The entire point of these is a PvE focus with niche PvP application |
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
428
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 23:54:00 -
[1870] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:Zeus Maximo wrote:[quote=Onictus][quote=Zeus Maximo]
What is easier to hit? A moving target or a stationary one?
. It depends if you are moving or not as what matters is transversal and that number is the same for you and the stationary target. Assuming someone orbiting then it is likely that they maintain a higher transversal on a stationary target than a moving one and thus the stationary target is harder to hit. Also i read quite a lot of your posts and they are pretty much wrong in every way possible.
Obviously transversal matters.... I stated that because a marauder will be a sitting duck at 0 speed meaning it will be easier to hit. Doesn't that make perfect sense in pvp? Are you that guy that sits at zero speed during a fight? Hell, you should do that with an actual dread on field.
Am I wrong here too? Sorry I see the bigger picture and don't get personal :) I want these things fixed in the right manner! |
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stoicfaux
3079
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 00:01:00 -
[1871] - Quote
marVLs wrote:But why just why those tank bonuses in bastion? For what they are?
- LVL4? they don't need more tank
CCP Ytterbium You forget that doing over 9000! missions over and over again is boring, so players want to do them with minimal effort, why should i jump in pockets, get reduction in damage because of falloff etc. when i can go with RNI that will aplly more damage and better and in more relaxing way that Marauders. Because you can fit a cheap Pithum C medium shield booster on a Vargur or Golem and basically perma-boost your way through missions? Less micromanagement, greatly reduced fitting, etc.
As for the RNI, with the Golem, you can fit two hydraulic bay thrusters and never have to volley count again. Plus ~15km/s missiles really screws up NPC defenders. You're immune to defenders at 70+km (maybe closer) and within about two seconds of flight time, their effective hit rate drops roughly in half or less. That extra 25% missile (18km/s missiles) could result in even screwier NPC defender behavior.
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Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 00:05:00 -
[1872] - Quote
I love the changes, with the exception of maybe adding a few points of CPU to the Paladin.
But I'm still going to dig in my heels and request an application buff to pair with the projection buff. I want to effectively engage close targets as well. The prospect, as was earlier described, of jumping into an NPC Swarm is pretty cool... but for a Tach Pali requires a bit more tracking. |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
97
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 00:08:00 -
[1873] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote: Maybe it's the lack of versatility? A tengu is good at more stuff, so why not just invest once? Perhaps it's just a mindset thing. People just don't think to do it. Speak to most people and they'll say, "battleships don't work in wormholes". But I use them. The fact is that they do work.
They certainly work in fleets for C5 anom running (non-escalation). We find them a really good option for pilots without the skills for T3s or command ships, once they've grown out of battlecruisers.
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Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
45
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 00:13:00 -
[1874] - Quote
Deacon Abox wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote: Oh yes, and forgot to mention with a proper deadspace X-L shield booster and a good tank, a single Vargur or Golem can tank the first wave of a Vanguard Incursion by itself. Sure, damage isn't that good when you do (you can't use cap booster, go through charges too fast, thus have to go for cap stable ), but the fact remains it's still possible. Even discussing that very fact with other designers as it most likely is far too OP for PvE. Can you do the same with a deadspace or officer LAR fit Kronos or Paladin? Otherwise, just more evidence of shield dominance What else is new?
You can rep a similar amount of DPS, the only problem is armor reppers are backloaded so you might explode before you actually rep any damage at all. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
597
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 00:13:00 -
[1875] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Pattern Clarc wrote:It totally breaks PvE, and I wonder what happens if you use this in the next AT....
It's neither balanced, nor useful in PvP - which is what all ships in this PVP FOCUSED game should be based around. Not working as intended.
Did you even read the OP? The entire point of these is a PvE focus with niche PvP application I read the OP, I disagree with the entire premise of prescribing tools and items for PvE and PvP, 1) PvE shouldn't be so far removed from PvP to be necessary to have different modules and tools, 2) A sandbox shouldn't be prescriptive in the devision between one or the other.
That's why maurders kind of sucked, PvE focused ships no one gave any ***** about. What they've gone and done is neither balanced sensibly for PvE or otherwise, it's just dumb. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
97
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 00:22:00 -
[1876] - Quote
Akvi Raiku wrote:I think it is not good to leave only 5 lightdrones at the same time as ship totally immobilized. 75m3 is better, but b\w still can be 25Mb\s. Other way.. Ok, maybe it's a variant to use a large neutralizers against fast targets, but.. CCP should research the idea to replace bonus for tractor beams with the bonus for range of energy neutralizers (only in bastion mode, only on paladin for ex) and with bonus for stasis webs' factor (only in bastion mode, only on kronos for ex). It will be very nice bonus change since bastion don't raise dps. So we'll get 2 marodeurs with more-pvp-specialization. Golem and Vargur still may have the bonus for tractors (pve orientation). Thus further reinforcing the 'armour is for PvP, shields are for PvE' effect that the low-mid slot distribution and fitting encourages. I do not think that this is a good idea. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
287
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 00:27:00 -
[1877] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Javius Rong wrote:The more I have thought about this the more I think CCP needs to do an HAC and come up with a version 2 proposal as this one still doesn't make sense.
So I want to sit still for 60 seconds in a 2billion+ ship??? Maybe the hi-sec carebears but I see no real use for 0.0 PvE or PvP.
Now a T2 resist BS with high close range damage (not projection) and some maneuverability. That might actually be useful. Maybe these should be turned into Dread killers and given a Nuet and sig radius bonus with some other draw back. You just made more pirate battleships with more tank.
As well as ECM immunity, a jump drive bonus (which I agree doesn't quite fit, unless you MJD away from the gang and let the enemy stream toward you one at a time) and a range bonus. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
100
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 00:32:00 -
[1878] - Quote
Pattern Clarc wrote:I read the OP, I disagree with the entire premise of prescribing tools and items for PvE and PvP, 1) PvE shouldn't be so far removed from PvP to be necessary to have different modules and tools, 2) A sandbox shouldn't be prescriptive in the devision between one or the other.
That's why maurders kind of sucked, PvE focused ships no one gave any ***** about. What they've gone and done is neither balanced sensibly for PvE or otherwise, it's just dumb.
That is your opinion, you are entitled to it. Personally I'm rather intrigued and kind of looking forward to Bastion mode and not having to worry much about tank in Level 4s.
Marauders, on the other hand, sucked because their disadvantages out-weighed their advantages for PvE or PvP and because the Pirate Battleships ended up stepping all over them in too many ways to count.
I am personally of the opinion that anything that's viable for either PvE or PvP will find uses in the other, more or less without exception now that we have everything from solo missions to 60 man fleet incursions.
I would, however, be a little disturbed if CCP either gave these full T2 resists as some have been suggesting, or made them out-DPS Pirate Battleships under any circumstances. The first leads to half-million+ EHP Battleship hulls that won't die and the second leads to power-creep. (really they're both power-creep, the first is just concerning in a specific way).
Finally, mission running is one of the most common activities in Eve. Pretty much everyone does it at some point or another and many make a career of it. What they do with the ISK they make from it is another thing entirely but they still make their isk doing missions. Supporting this with a ship that is exceptionally good at missions is not a bad thing, despite your misgivings toward a "PvE focused ship in a PvP focused game". |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
287
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 00:33:00 -
[1879] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:my challenge to all the forum warriors now is to provide me an example of why I would fly a new marauder over a t1 or pirate ship.
Please consider: solo vs fleet comp cost tank and dps utility
for advanced posters: reasons to fly this in a nullsec/wormhole actual willingness to engage a target
Challengeaccepted.jpg
[ Vargur, Because F*** the system! ]
800mm Repeating Autocannon II 800mm Repeating Autocannon II 800mm Repeating Autocannon II 800mm Repeating Autocannon II Bastion Module [Utility Slot] [Utility Slot] [Utility Slot]
Micro Jump Drive Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster Shield Boost Amp Shield Boost Amp
Damage Control II Gyrostab II Gyrostab II Gyrostab II Co-Processor
About 1000 DPS, about 4500 DPS tank with LG crystals and standard blue pill with one ASB, EWar proof, essentially neut proof, can only be killed by dreadnoughts or time (run out of cap boosters)
I believe I've made a point? If you're going to use a T1 its because of cost, and if you're going to use a Pirate VS its either a Mach for bumping, a Vindy for the web, or something absurd that tanks like a boss. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
97
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 00:37:00 -
[1880] - Quote
Aeril Malkyre wrote: As it stands, this is an awesome ideagasm in need of a home. Nothing about the Marauder hulls (attack BS's), their abilities, or their description screams 'immobile brick'. This shows up in the fact that they all had to be HP, speed, drone and mass altered to offset this new module. That's indicative of cramming in functionality they're not built for, crowding out what they were trying to be good at.
The Marauders are not especially fast ships. The Golem and Paladin are slower than the base battleship hull, the Kronos is faster than the Mega but slower than the Navy Mega. Even the Vargur is only the same speed as the Tempest FI (and very slightly faster than a basic Tempest), and thus slower than a Typhoon FI (and the same speed as the base Typhoon). Marauders are not good at being fast, it's not their niche, and there's no reason to push them that way, given that the faction attack BSes are already filling that role. Making the Marauders all about applied damage and giving them a super-tank option makes them comfortably different from the navy/fleet faction battleships, especially as they have the bonus to MJD use to give them a special sort of mobility.
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Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
172
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Posted - 2013.09.04 00:39:00 -
[1881] - Quote
They will be good at PVE, great in fact every mission runners dream.
They are however bad for PVE as content, here is a ship that breaks all game design possibilities.
Immune to E-war, no range problems can hit NPCs anywhere.
Can travel great distances quickly.
Massive tank makes omni tank easy, no need to even think about NPC damage profiles or tailoring ship fittings.
NPC ships don't scram so you can't even be pointed.
How do you make PVE that is challenging and interesting for these ships? How do you encourage diverse ship use when one ship is so strong?
This is not what PVE needs, it needs balanced communal content. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
623
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 00:45:00 -
[1882] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: That is your opinion, you are entitled to it. Personally I'm rather intrigued and kind of looking forward to Bastion mode and not having to worry much about tank in Level 4s.
...
I would, however, be a little disturbed if CCP either gave these full T2 resists as some have been suggesting, or made them out-DPS Pirate Battleships under any circumstances. The first leads to half-million+ EHP Battleship hulls that won't die and the second leads to power-creep. (really they're both power-creep, the first is just concerning in a specific way).
Finally, mission running is one of the most common activities in Eve. Pretty much everyone does it at some point or another and many make a career of it. What they do with the ISK they make from it is another thing entirely but they still make their isk doing missions. Supporting this with a ship that is exceptionally good at missions is not a bad thing, despite your misgivings toward a "PvE focused ship in a PvP focused game".
Wait, so when it concerns buffing a "PvP ship," power creep is a problem, but when it comes to making an idiot-proof battleship for PvE that, "saves you having to worry much about tank in Level 4s," that is not power creep? |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
101
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 00:54:00 -
[1883] - Quote
Alticus C Bear wrote:They will be good at PVE, great in fact every mission runners dream.
They are however bad for PVE as content, here is a ship that breaks all game design possibilities.
Immune to E-war, no range problems can hit NPCs anywhere.
Can travel great distances quickly.
Massive tank makes omni tank easy, no need to even think about NPC damage profiles or tailoring ship fittings.
NPC ships don't scram so you can't even be pointed.
How do you make PVE that is challenging and interesting for these ships? How do you encourage diverse ship use when one ship is so strong?
This is not what PVE needs, it needs balanced communal content.
Level 4 missions have never been "challenging" and only moderately interesting.
These aren't going to be the end-all be-all of Incursions by a long shot, and they seem unlikely to be better at most Null-sec PvE than a carrier or T1 fleet setup.
Ganthrithor wrote:Wait, so when it concerns buffing a "PvP ship," power creep is a problem, but when it comes to making an idiot-proof battleship for PvE that, "saves you having to worry much about tank in Level 4s," that is not power creep?
Power-creep in level 4 missions specifically or PvE in general is completion time. If these things don't significantly alter completion time from current Pirate Battleship or Marauder setups then they're fine.
I'd be a little concerned if I thought they were going to be better than current incursion setups but I don't think that's currently the case and the devs don't seem inclined to let them keep that level of tanking power.
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:The Marauders are not especially fast ships. The Golem and Paladin are slower than the base battleship hull, the Kronos is faster than the Mega but slower than the Navy Mega. Even the Vargur is only the same speed as the Tempest FI (and very slightly faster than a basic Tempest), and thus slower than a Typhoon FI (and the same speed as the base Typhoon). Marauders are not good at being fast, it's not their niche, and there's no reason to push them that way, given that the faction attack BSes are already filling that role. Making the Marauders all about applied damage and giving them a super-tank option makes them comfortably different from the navy/fleet faction battleships, especially as they have the bonus to MJD use to give them a special sort of mobility.
This guy gets it.
As much as I like the name "Marauders" I would be happy to see it changed if it would silence all of the completely missing the point "but it doesn't match the definition of it's name!!!" arguments. They never did that, someone at CCP thought Marauders was a cool name six years ago and so we got Marauders. |
Battle Cube
Cubes' Freakout Room.
29
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Posted - 2013.09.04 00:57:00 -
[1884] - Quote
imo.... give us t2 version of maelstrom, abaddon, etc. Do what you will with marauders, but give us something.... |
Cade Windstalker
Donohue Enterprises Ad-Astra
101
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 01:03:00 -
[1885] - Quote
Battle Cube wrote:imo.... give us t2 version of maelstrom, abaddon, etc. Do what you will with marauders, but give us something....
Black-Ops are due to be split and there have been more requests than I can count for a KK paint-job Rokh. I would bet you'll get your wish, just not from Marauders =P |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
341
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Posted - 2013.09.04 01:18:00 -
[1886] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Daishan Auergni wrote:I've seen a bunch of ppl complain that the MJD isn't suited for lvl4 gates because the gates aren't exactly 100KM off...
May I introduce the concept of the TRIANGLE? 3-sided shape. Should be familiar. Pick an acute angle such that jumping BACK will make the 3rd leg of the triangle whatever distance you need? I know. Takes some reckoning skill but surely it's better than doing 6KM/minute (~100m/s). With some practice jumping twice will land you on a gate or wreck or whatever in 2 minutes.
if I jump 100km from the warp in then I'm probably doing less dps to the npcs, it is probably better to warp in and use an AB or MWD to approach the gate while shooting the npcs. the triangle is useful when afking with a domi or rattler, but a marauder not so much. Hence the range bonus. Also nothing forces you to jump so you're 100km away from the rats, you can always jump so you're actually closer to them or more able to apply better damage, hence the damage projection bonus on the Bastion module.
most of my marauder fits the bastion mod is stacking penalized to who cares much with respect to the range bonus.
I'll stick with my thoughts that in most missions the MJD is not a bonus. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
DSpite Culhach
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
164
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 01:39:00 -
[1887] - Quote
TL;DR
As far as PvE usage, I just wanted the Marauder changes to make missioning more interesting :( I'm not sure whats on the table will do that. I Already sit still in one spot with an "unkillable" Rattlesnake, then have to fly off and get a Noctis to clean up. Bastion mode seems to be even more boring then a Sentry Rattler. Just saying.
---
I've been reading this thread as it updates. Not really grasping the mechanics regarding what will happen when players get their hands on these things on the real server, so I'm not sure I can offer hard numbers on what I'd like to see.
On that note, when I found out about Bastion mode, before reading anything on it, my brain tried to guess what It "should" behave like, and this was basically it:
* Bastion off, you fly it like a normal (as in what we have now) Marauder. I would only have expected some tweaks to happen, maybe making tractor beams reach MUCH further out, that sorta thing, and a more flexible MJD system would have been awesome, on a ship designed to pop around the battlefield via mini-jumps, ie, click MJD, and it charges up, and if re-clicked, it makes a "partial" jump, with a faster cooldown.
* Bastion mode for the "oh crap" moments in order to help the tank and * Bastion mode for "deathblossom" mode like in the Last Starfighter, as in:
- Bastion shifting grid or computer power from normal systems like propulsion, warp drive etc, and pumping it to either weapon system, or shield/armor repair system.
So like a script in targeting systems, you could up your tank to try and wait out the extra DPS, possibly draining extra cap in the process, so timing is still of the essence, or cutting weapon range, upping weapon power drain - or for missiles just upping fuel burn for extra flight speed at cost of range - to gain a DPS spike to remove DPS from the field.
Anyway, what I'm getting at, Bastion should be a PvE mode where you have to make a tactical decision to use, at the correct time, to get something done, not simply "turn on, activate FOF's, hit F1, go for lunch" (maybe possible on a Golem?), not because "it's too easy" but mainly cause it would be boring. I suddenly woke up thinking I had a nightmare, then remembered I can't even fly Amarr Battleships. I add bits to this when I'm bored https://www.dropbox.com/s/foijsawsqolarom/EVE_Online.html |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
98
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 01:46:00 -
[1888] - Quote
Arya Greywolf wrote: This is the primary reason why the Talos has a 25 drone bay and the other ABCs do not: it has the shortest range - by far - of all the ABCs and thus the full flight of ECM drones or Warrior IIs give it the extra protection it needs. With the Paladin and Vargur, this range disparity is dissimilar and nearly non-existent. Whilst the Paladin has an optimal bonus, the Vargur has a falloff bonus (and we all know how much falloff Barrage has). Further, with the Bastion module, both boats receive a substantial bonus to optimal and falloff.
With scorch Mega Beam's optimal is greater than the optimal+falloff of 800mm ACs with Barrage. The Vargur's DPS won't exceed the Paladin's until about 75km out. Against a battleship target, the Paladin is simply superior. The availability of mids for Tracking Computers, as opposed to Tracking Enhancers in the Vargur largely negates the superior tracking the Vargur againt frigates with high transversal. The Vargur's advantages revolve around the X-ASB, not around better damage application.
Quote: And so, my point still stands that the Paladin is more susceptible to smaller targets and therefore should have a larger (or at least equal) drone bay as compared to the Vargur.
They are both about equally susceptible to frigates that get within ~15km. This does argue that they deserve a similar size in drones.
Note that 'racial traits' argues about equally for both Amarr and Minmatar - the Minmatar battleships have bays about the same size as those carried by Amarr battleships.
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
300
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Posted - 2013.09.04 01:49:00 -
[1889] - Quote
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:[The Vargur's advantages revolve around the X-ASB....
understatement of the century...
Winter marauders - Mutant Ninja Space Turtles
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Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2013.09.04 01:55:00 -
[1890] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Battle Cube wrote:imo.... give us t2 version of maelstrom, abaddon, etc. Do what you will with marauders, but give us something.... Black-Ops are due to be split and there have been more requests than I can count for a KK paint-job Rokh. I would bet you'll get your wish, just not from Marauders =P Finally a Khanid Abbadon... |
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