Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kyang Tia
Matari Exodus
26
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 14:11:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: I actually prefer to use damage drones over ECM drones almost always and I'm not even flying in bigger fleets where ECM drones get worse.
I agree with your conclusions, but this statement is at least not entirely correct. From my experience, ECM drones become more powerful in larger gangs, not less. That's really just a question of math.
Let's say you're fighting 5 vs. 10. Everyone has ECM drones, so that on average, 2 ships in your gang and one ship in their gang will be jammed. (Since they have 2x as many drones) Now you're fighting 3 versus 9. Their numerical advantage has increased from 2:1 to 3:1.
If both parties use damage drones instead, it looks different. Let's say 5 sets of drones so as much damage as one additional ship. (Which would be approximately correct e.g. on a Drake or a Brutix) Now your gang has 6 ships worth of damage, theirs has 12. Numerical advantage has stayed the same.
In such situations, it is almost always favorable for the larger gang to have ECM drones whereas the smaller gang profits from using damage drones more.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4265
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 02:38:00 -
[62] - Quote
How shameful, a game mechanic that helps skillless blobbers There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 07:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
Yes nerf them. When we go to gate camp people using a single tackle and the rest dps boats we absolutely hate having that guy ecm drone our only tackle and escape our clutches. Thanks for listening CCP.
While we're at it, its a pain to have our logistics ships interrupted. Do you realize how nice it would be to be able to fly just logistics ships and have absolutely nothing break our chain? We fly close formation and we're an unbreakable wall. Its about time CCP started catering to us.
And while we're at it, the ECM resistance skills you added, thanks. But we need more. Giving up slots for eccm or backup arrays hinders our plans for 1 tackle + as many glass glannons as we can, fleet doctrine. Any help you can throw our way would be awesome.
And one more thing. This is a separate issue but i'll throw it in. We need cloak probes. We can not create an impenetrable system when someone can hide within it. Cloakers can. Its imbalanced, big time. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 10:23:00 -
[64] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Yes nerf them. When we go to gate camp people using a single tackle and the rest dps boats we absolutely hate having that guy ecm drone our only tackle and escape our clutches. Thanks for listening CCP.
While we're at it, its a pain to have our logistics ships interrupted. Do you realize how nice it would be to be able to fly just logistics ships and have absolutely nothing break our chain? We fly close formation and we're an unbreakable wall. Its about time CCP started catering to us.
It takes a while to reach this level of stupidity, nice one.
So you're ok with the fact that ECM drones are the only EFFECTIVE kind of Ewar that doesn't need to use a single slot on your ship, while completely disabling another ship for 20 seconds ? Not only that, but you can do that in almost every ship in EVE ?
Please don't talk about game balance, you apparently know nothing about it. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 10:34:00 -
[65] - Quote
ECM drones have a jam strength of 1. A flight of drones is 5 separate ECM strength 1 craft on one target. If that target is so poorly outfitted as to make 5x 1 jam strength drones completely shut them down they deserve to die.
Combat drones do damage and explode ships, ecm drones do no damage and have a very small chance of jamming. I think you're the one with a hard time understanding balance.
How much damage can a flight of 5 combat drones put out in 20 seconds?
|
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 10:47:00 -
[66] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:ECM drones have a jam strength of 1. A flight of drones is 5 separate ECM strength 1 craft on one target. If that target is so poorly outfitted as to make 5x 1 jam strength drones completely shut them down they deserve to die.
Combat drones do damage and explode ships, ecm drones do no damage and have a very small chance of jamming. I think you're the one with a hard time understanding balance.
How much damage can a flight of 5 combat drones put out in 20 seconds?
ECM is only problematic to those who absolutely refuse to defend even slightly against it. But because 90% of the player of all MMOs have the inability to do anything other than whine we most definitely should dumb the game down to where only tank and dps matters. Im all for catering to the stupid.
And yes CCP dumb the game down to the masses. Im sure you'll gain MILLIONS of subscribers to replace your higher intellect playerbase that only bothers playing EVE because of its complexity.
ECM drones have a low jam strength, that is true.
However, ingame experience have shown me that no matter how low their jam strength is, at some point in a 1v1 fight, the ECM drones will jam the other guy and it becomes the easy way out.
That, or you'll get unlucky (Yeah, it appears everyone is super unlucky when it comes to EC300s anyway) and get jammed at the first second of the fight.
"Oh, I'm loosing a fight, nah no worries, I've got 5 cheap lightdrones that will disrupt the xxxM hostile ship for 20 full seconds + the time it will take him to relock, no problem".
This is the problem.
Also, what do you call "Poorly outfitted ?"
The issue is that ECM drones can be used on every ship. Do you fit ECCMs when you fight a Rupture ? A Thorax ? If you do, you're the one who poorly outfit your ships.
ECM drones use no slots, Defense versus ECM do.
ECM drones can be used in every situation, every ship versus every target. ECCM is only useful when someone tries to jam you.
Oh and, ECM drones do 0 damage, that is true aswell. How much damage is 20 seconds + lock-time of an Hyperion ? That's about 25k damage. For 5 light drones. So what's better ? Warrior IIs or ECM drones ? Yeah, ECM drones.
And if you really think that removing stupid game mechanics like ECM drones is dumbing down the game, well, I don't even konw what to answer to that. Should have stayed to the warp-to-15 era, the "dodge the DDs" era and so on. Because it was so much harder, so much better to get instagibbed along with 230 friends in a locked down system where you need 20 bookmarks just to navigate around the gates.
There is a difference between dumbing down the game and making it more playable.
|
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 10:50:00 -
[67] - Quote
ECM drones have a jam strength of 1. A flight of drones is 5 separate ECM strength 1 craft on one target. If that target is so poorly outfitted as to make 5x 1 jam strength drones completely shut them down they deserve to die.
Combat drones do damage and explode ships, ecm drones do no damage and have a very small chance of jamming.
How much damage can a flight of 5 T2 combat drones put out in 20 seconds? Let's use t2 since, you know, they exist.
ECM is only problematic to those who absolutely refuse to defend even slightly against it. But because 90% of the playerbase of all MMOs have the inability to do anything self empowering other than whine, we most definitely should dumb the game down to where only tank and dps matters. Im all for catering to the stupid.
For the love of Allah, CCP, dumb the game down to the masses. Im sure you'll gain MILLIONS of subscribers to replace your higher intellect playerbase that only bothers playing EVE because of its complexity. Because it should be obvious people would sit around camping hours on end for a kill as you require with a room temperature IQ and ADD.
You'd think DUST514 completely wiping the floor with Call of Duty would show you something.
Sorry I had some late edits. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 10:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
"ECM drones use no slots, Defense versus ECM do."
-Damage resistance uses slots, combat drones do not.
"Also, what do you call "Poorly outfitted ?"
-Any ship that has the potential to engage ECM ships and refuses even 1 mod to increase its defense versus ECM.
"The issue is that ECM drones can be used on every ship. Do you fit ECCMs when you fight a Rupture ? A Thorax ? If you do, you're the one who poorly outfit your ships."
The issue with Combat Drones is that they can be used by any ship. Do you fit shields when killing a freighter? I do. Because there is always the potential while i'm killing it I may need those shields. I guess its just one of those things you expect and have some preparation against or suffer the consequences when you don't have it. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 12:26:00 -
[69] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:"ECM drones use no slots, Defense versus ECM do."
-Damage resistance uses slots, combat drones do not.
"Also, what do you call "Poorly outfitted ?"
-Any ship that has the potential to engage ECM ships and refuses even 1 mod to increase its defense versus ECM.
ECM ships = Falcon/Rook/Scorpion/Blackbird/Griffin/Kitsune/Widow. Every other ship are non-ECM ships. And yet they can instajam you and get away with it, no problem.
Please show me one of your losses, or even a loss (doesn't matter if it's yours) where someone fitted an ECCM while not trying to counter a specific fleet/ship or trying to active-tank vs a gang.
No one ever fits ECCM when fighting non-ECM ships. It's THAT simple. You don't fit ECCM when fighting Thoraxes because Thoraxes don't fit ECM modules, because it's bad to fit ECM on a Thorax. You fit ECCM when fighting ACTUAL ECM SHIPS. Except that because of EC300s, every ship is an ECM ship. That's what's wrong.
And please don't try to come up with a "because of combat drones, every ship is a DPS ship". That's a stupid argument. They are totally BAD at it. Industrials can fit turrets. Are they DPS ships ? No. Simple. 20 seconds of not-locking works the same on every ship, the only thing that changes is the percentage of possible jams. An industrial with a single turret does like 20 DPS, which doesn't matter at all no matter what.
-The issue with Combat Drones is that they can be used by any ship. Do you fit shields when killing a freighter? I do. Because there is always the potential while i'm killing it I may need those shields. I guess its just one of those things you expect and have some preparation against or suffer the consequences when you don't have it.
Shields (or tank) are useful in almost every combat situation except maybe sniping and bombing. ECCMs are not.
Caliph Muhammed wrote:"Oh, I'm loosing a fight, nah no worries, I've got 5 cheap lightdrones that will disrupt the xxxM hostile ship for 20 full seconds + the time it will take him to relock, no problem".
- Yeah I too want my chance to survive a gank with 1 tackler to go from small to zero. And also i'd love zero chance in a 1v1 to disengage from a fight. My frigate is surprised by a destroyer? Yep, fighting the ship designed for raping my ship is surely wiser than disengaging and coming back in a cruiser. Because, damn it, retreat isn't a valid option. Speaking of which lets make interdictors invulnerable, do zero dps and expand the bubble to 1au. That way disengagement in fleet fights is a thing of the past.
Warp-out before he locks you ? Don't be there in the first place ? Use your Dscan to avoid it ? Be faster than him ? Is that "a small chance to get out" ? To me, it's "You were stupid staying there, not moving at all, waiting for your perfect counter to come in and then you used the OP drones which made your escape super easy".
Caliph Muhammed wrote:"Oh and, ECM drones do 0 damage, that is true aswell. How much damage is 20 seconds + lock-time of an Hyperion ? That's about 25k damage. For 5 light drones. So what's better ? Warrior IIs or ECM drones ? Yeah, ECM drones."
-Well whats the damage of a hyperion that equips anti ecm, never suffers a jam and gets their full damage plus 5 t2 combat drones for the full 20 seconds? A lot higher than the guy who had 5 ecm drones that failed I bet.
It's not a lot higher, it's slighly higher. And while you did fit ECCM (Or multiple ECCMs), the other ship fitted a web, or another capbooster. Webs are useful in a whole lot of combat situation. Capboosters are, on active tanked ships. ECCMs are only useful when fighting ships that actually use ECM. Be it regular ECM, or ECM drones.
Also, what do you call "fleet" ? If it's small gang from 5 to 10, then fitting ECCM on most of your ships heavely handicapes you. Yes, Vagabonds can't fit ECCMs without being shitfit. Cynabals can't. Taloses can't. Hell, most roaming ships can't and shouldn't anyway.
If it's a large fleet, ECM don't really matter as ECM ships are very, very weak and small drones don't matter much.
Caliph Muhammed wrote:http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11718051 Here's a kill where I engaged to kill a ship, fought and won, and with damage in the armor ECM drones enabled me to escape as the other guy who showed up started targeting me. I should not have been able to flee. I should've, after surviving the 1v1 and winning, been forced to stay and fight an undamaged new contact with no shields and armor half gone. It makes perfect sense. If only the added contact had equipped 1 anti ecm mod, he would have killed me. No, that was too much to bear. He was robbed!
You're fighting an hostile. A second hostile comes in and you're still tackled. Well, escape him. Web him so that he's slower than you. When out of scramble range, MWD to freedom. And that's if you're scrambled. If you're not, overload MWD and leave.
You're fighting an hostile. You win the fight. Second hostile comes in. Well, warp-out maybe ? Or you could be stupid, stay there, wait while he locks you, wait until he tackles you, then suddenly see that you're in armor and you should get out. Pop drones out, instajam and warp away.
Caliph Muhammed wrote:How dare ECM pilots that cross train into drones have any other options other than pure DPS. Matter of fact why not just remove every weapons system but guns and t2 drones. It'll help the new players.
Ahah, seriously dude. ECM pilots that cross-train into drones. That's funny. You don't cross-train into ECM drones. You train them because everyone uses them because they are either the annoying "I escape and you can't do **** about it" button, or the "Sit there for 20 seconds while I'm shooting you and there is nothing you can do about it".
Anyway, I'm bored of your trolling. Good day sir. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 12:29:00 -
[70] - Quote
You wrote all of that to concede defeat.
Nirvana Fallacy
(also known as: perfect solution fallacy, perfectionist fallacy)
Description: Comparing a realistic solution with an idealized one, and dismissing or even discounting the realistic solution as a result of comparing to a GÇ£perfect worldGÇ¥ or impossible standard. Ignoring the fact that improvements are often good enough reason.
Logical Form:
X is what we have.
Y is the perfect situation.
Therefore, X is not good enough.
Example #1:
WhatGÇÖs the point of making drinking illegal under the age of 21? Kids still manage to get alcohol.
Explanation: The goal in setting a minimum age for drinking is to deter under age drinking, not abolish it completely. Suggesting the law is fruitless based on its failure to completely abolish under age drinking, is fallacious.
Example #2:
WhatGÇÖs the point of living? WeGÇÖre all going to die anyway.
Explanation: There is an implication that the goal to life is not dying. While that is certainly a worthwhile goal, many would argue that it is a bit empty on its own, creating this fallacy where one does not really exist.
Exception: Striving for perfection is not the same as the nirvana fallacy. Having a goal of perfection or near perfection, and working towards that goal, is admirable. However, giving up on the goal because perfection is not attained, despite major improvements being attained, is fallacious.
Tip: Sometimes good enough is really good enough.
|
|
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 12:43:00 -
[71] - Quote
Strut around like you're victorious if you want to. ECM drones still are bad, are not a valid "cross-training option for ECM pilots". They are the quick "i don't care what you fly, I jam you with my non-jamming ship and get away no problem" solution.
It's not "good enough". It's not even close to good. Can't outrun them, can't outrange them, can't avoid ships using them, the only module counter is a module that is of no use when no one tries to jam you as opposed to every other Ewar types, they are multispectral so the guy using them doesn't even have to guess what racial ship you're going to fly, and the list goes on.
Your arguments revolve around combat drones being usable on every ship (notice how every ships but ECM ships and industrials are fighting ships or at least ships involved in combat ? And they can use combat drones, that's weird right ?). My arguments don't.
And your copy-pasta of a wikipedia page or something confirms what I thought. You're trolling. Either that or you really are beyond the no-return point.
Quick EDIT :
Some guy said something along the lines of "What if ECM drones disabled only highslots ?".
That's a solution I'd accept. Is it the perfect world/impossible standard that no one can ever hope to achieve ? No.
Is it better than the current situation ? Yes, very much. ECM drones aren't the easy escape solution anymore.
Are ECM drones still good ? Well, if you consider the fact that for 20 seconds, the hostile ship won't shoot/rep/neut, then yes. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 12:47:00 -
[72] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Strut around like you're victorious if you want to. ECM drones still are bad, are not a valid "cross-training option for ECM pilots". They are the quick "i don't care what you fly, I jam you with my non-jamming ship and get away no problem" solution.
It's not "good enough". It's not even close to good. Can't outrun them, can't outrange them, can't avoid ships using them, the only module counter is a module that is of no use when no one tries to jam you as opposed to every other Ewar types, they are multispectral so the guy using them doesn't even have to guess what racial ship you're going to fly, and the list goes on.
Your arguments revolve around combat drones being usable on every ship (notice how every ships but ECM ships and industrials are fighting ships or at least ships involved in combat ? And they can use combat drones, that's weird right ?). My arguments don't.
And your copy-pasta of a wikipedia page or something confirms what I thought. You're trolling. Either that or you really are beyond the no-return point.
Smartbombs. ECCM. Gravimetric backup sensors. Teammates with such. Can use them yourself.
The fact a fallacy which is posted in Wikipedia easily shows how weak and utterly horrible to read replies are torn asunder shows your inability to accept being told no. You have no argument to stand on but you do hate ECM drones. So no matter what arguments are presented your going to dull everyones senses with long drawn out posts that are so convoluted, biased, non factual and loaded with hyperbole as to be painful to sift through.
Protip-1: Sometimes modules aren't optimal in every situation. Target painters suck if you run into a titan. Protip-2: Attacking my character doesn't make you sound any more coherent or knowledgeable. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 12:56:00 -
[73] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Can't outrun them, can't outrange them, can't avoid ships using them, the only module counter is a module that is of no use when no one tries to jam you as opposed to every other Ewar types, they are multispectral so the guy using them doesn't even have to guess what racial ship you're going to fly, and the list goes on.
I am forced to quote myself then.
Capboosters counter neut but are still useful in other situations.
Tracking computers counter tracking disruptors but are still useful in other situations.
Sensor boosters counter sensor damps but are still useful in other situations.
ECCMs counters ECM and are useless in every other situation.
That's an argument. One of the multiple arguments that I've made against ECM drones. I even proposed a solution to the OPness of those drones. And what do you do ?
Reply with "Well you can use combat drones on every ship too !" and "Use ECCM" (already said why ECCM/ECMdrones are bad).
Smartbombs is about the only valid counter to ECM drones tbh. Too bad a lot of ships don't have utility highslot. But I can see it already : "Why not drop a heavely bonused gun to fit a smartbomb ? I mean, of course you're going to be at a disadvantage versus someone who fit 7 guns on his Megathron instead of 6 and a smartbomb. BUT YOU'LL COUNTER ECM DRONES, HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND".
So please, explain me how the "ECM drones now disable only highslot modules" solution is a bad solution. Please explain me how ECM drones being the quick exit they currently are is part of the oh-so-incredibly deep and complex parts of EVE. Please explain me how ECCM is useful in anything but counter ECM (which is only fitted on like 6 hulls in the game) and ECM drones (which can be fitted on everything that flies but some frigates).
|
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 12:57:00 -
[74] - Quote
How far are we gonna move this goal post? Should I answer every conceivable (yet easily counterable) and still horribly convoluted fallacy ridden request?
Protip: The few the words the stronger the point with respect to fully conveying your idea. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 13:07:00 -
[75] - Quote
So yeah, ECM drones really are an important part of EVE that devs shouldn't improve upon because improving upon the quick-easy escape solution that it currently is, is apparently an impossible standard or something that only belongs in a perfect world.
ECCM or backup arrays should be fitted on every ship, just incase you encounter one of the 100+ hulls that can (and will) use ECM drones. Even ships which really don't have enough room to fit ECCMs + a minimum tank/gank/tackle.
I just made it shorter so that readers can fully understand your opinion and compare it to their own experience.
And you apparently can't tell me why only disabling highslots for 20 seconds isn't a reasonable solution, as opposed to how it is now. It's harder than copypasting Wikipedia, I suppose. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 13:19:00 -
[76] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:So yeah, ECM drones really are an important part of EVE that devs shouldn't improve upon because improving upon the quick-easy escape solution that it currently is, is apparently an impossible standard or something that only belongs in a perfect world.
ECCM or backup arrays should be fitted on every ship, just incase you encounter one of the 100+ hulls that can (and will) use ECM drones. Even ships which really don't have enough room to fit ECCMs + a minimum tank/gank/tackle.
I just made it shorter so that readers can fully understand your opinion and compare it to their own experience.
And you apparently can't tell me why only disabling highslots for 20 seconds isn't a reasonable solution, as opposed to how it is now. It's harder than copypasting Wikipedia, I suppose.
Much better and that opinion is a mighty damn fine one.
Now to your question that i'll use as a statement. "Why only disabling highslots for 20 seconds isn't a reasonable solution."
Because warp disruptors/scramblers are mid slots. Because retreat is logical, tactical, plausible, and sane to have as an option. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 14:34:00 -
[77] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Much better and that opinion is a mighty damn fine one.
Now to your question that i'll use as a statement. "Why only disabling highslots for 20 seconds isn't a reasonable solution."
Because warp disruptors/scramblers are mid slots. Because retreat is logical, tactical, practical, plausible and sane to have as an option.
Wasn't my opinion. I just compiled yours in 2 sentences so it's easier to fully understand.
And yes, tackling gear are medslot modules. If you want retreat, you may use ECM as an exit solution, of course. With either an ECM module, that makes your ship worse than a ship with no ECM module. Or a mate in a Falcon/ECM ship. How about that ?
If you want proper ECM, use ECM ships. If you want ECM on a ship that isn't an ECM ship, you can use ECM drones which only shut down the hostile DPS (which is still pretty good, compare it to the other small EW drones. They are hilariously bad and no one uses them except in AT).
Ain't that great ? :) |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 14:47:00 -
[78] - Quote
Are combat drones only going to be allowed on drone ships in your proposal? And salvage drones on salvage ships, web drones on web ships, etc etc.
How about we just disallow use of any drones on any ship that isn't a drone boat, determined solely by what bonus it receives on its hull.
Isn't that even greater? |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 14:49:00 -
[79] - Quote
|
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 14:53:00 -
[80] - Quote
Yeah now it's getting kinda obvious that you're trolling. |
|
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 15:04:00 -
[81] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:Yeah now it's getting kinda obvious that you're trolling.
How about you detail precisely how instead of implying a generalization because you're getting your figurative ass handed to you.
It's kind of obvious you aren't qualified to be in this discussion and you're doing more to hurt your cause than you are helping. Because if you put up a weak argument i'm going to rip it apart. I'm not going to allow a thread full of fallacious propaganda to remove one of the best aspects of EVE's gameplay so the reductive of our playerbase are content, temporarily at best.
Protip: Being disagreed with isn't being trolled. |
Digits Kho
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Get Off My Lawn
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 15:14:00 -
[82] - Quote
Don Purple wrote:I have never seen ecm drones get off more than one or two good bursts before they are useless. Confirming I see them next to a lot of wrecks as well.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19177812
80 seconds of jam on 17 ladar sensor strength during the fight , first round roughly 10 seconds after lock the other 3 at enemys 75% armor for the remaining 60 seconds .
P.S Yes he would have been dead , Yes those drones are the only reason it didnt happen. No im not mad .Tell me something new, no nerd science pls |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 15:32:00 -
[83] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote: I'm not going to allow a thread full of fallacious propaganda to remove one of the best aspects of EVE's gameplay because the reductive of our playerbase can't see past their own noses.
Protip: Being disagreed with isn't being trolled.
Saying that ECM drones are one of the best aspects of EVE's gameplay is either being a troll or being stupid. Either way it's hilarious.
Seriously, I have NEVER ever heard anyone say "EVE would have never been the same with ECM drones !" or "Good thing they are not removing ECM drones !" or anything like that.
However, I've heard "f*ck ECM drones" a lot. Pretty much everywhere and in every language.
Being disagreed with isn't being trolled, that is true. But you say I use hyperboles while you do aswell. A single message with a bunch of smiley is also a sign of trolling.
Saying that I should detail precisely instead of implying a generalization while you keep generalizing with the ridiculous "But everyone can use combat drones :(" is what I would call trolling. Or being very stupid.
Digits Khos' exemple happens to me quite a lot. Same goes for a lot of my corpmates. Happens a lot on ratting ships too like carriers and stuff.
The "I deserve an escape possiblity" argument is also ridiculous. If you're too slow to warp-out while the ship designed to take you down lands close to you, well, you are bad and you'll die because of it as it should be.
Oh and please explain how ECCM is any useful when not fighting ECM ships or ECM drones (as opposed to capboosters vs neuts, trackingcomps vs disruptors and so on). I'd love to hear your generalization on that : "But you know, modules don't work in every situation !!"
So please keep going, it keeps me entertained while I wait for my Steam games to update. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:01:00 -
[84] - Quote
You're using a lot of words without saying much. Vindictive mocking and rhetoric mixed with laughably amateur attempts at alienation do not an argument make. And the majority being in agreement does not right make. You're slipping back into moving the goal posts. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:26:00 -
[85] - Quote
Why are you arguing if you can't present couter-arguments other than "you're being mean" and "even if everyone thinks its bad, I think that it is not, and my opinion is worth more" ?
Oh and I almost forgot the "Because if you put up a weak argument i'm going to rip it apart" thing. Which translates to "I could rip apart your weak arguments but I won't". Which doesn't really help, does it.
Argument :
Quote:The "I deserve an escape possiblity" argument is also ridiculous. If you're too slow to warp-out while the ship designed to take you down lands close to you, well, you are bad and you'll die because of it as it should be, and not escape because you have magic drones.
Your answer ?
Argument :
Quote:Oh and please explain how ECCM is any useful when not fighting ECM ships or ECM drones (as opposed to capboosters vs neuts, trackingcomps vs disruptors and so on).
Your answer ?
Proposal :
Quote: If you want retreat, you may use ECM as an exit solution, of course. With either an ECM module, that makes your ship worse than a ship with no ECM module. Or a mate in a Falcon/ECM ship. How about that ?
I'll add to that one that when you want proper sensor dampening, you use a sensor dampening ship. When you want proper target painting or tracking disruption, you use target painting or tracking disruption hulls in order to get that proper EW effect.
Why is it not the same ? Why are 5 light ECM drones able to jam a battleship for 20s (which is what I call "proper ECM", because it actually works) ?
That way, maybe I'll get a proper answer instead of "you're being mean with lots of words". But I doubt it.
|
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:27:00 -
[86] - Quote
Lol! Counter arguments. You lost the debate three pages ago. You've confused me being willing to engage in meaningful discussion to commiting to answer every inane question you care to pose.
Protip: Asking more questions, demanding more evidence for new situations to cover for your former absolutely weak reasoning doesn't make your case any stronger. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:32:00 -
[87] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Lol! Counter arguments. You lost the debate three pages ago.
"Lol, I don't need to answer because I r teh win and u lose lol u mad u mad"
Maybe it wasn't supposed to sound like that, but it sounds exactly like that.
Or mabye it's because you can't answer or justify things like, the fact that ECCM is only of use versus ECM modules/drones as opposed to everything else. This or many other arguments I've made tbh.
EDIT : Well, if only you could attempt to continue arguing for a little longer, I'm almost done downloading things and will go play some BF3 in a few minutes, that'd be geat. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:37:00 -
[88] - Quote
There isn't a question you have posed that is too complex for me to answer. But there is no value in convincing you. Someone of your intellect level would never have any serious weight in design discussions. There is a limit to how much energy i'm going to put into enlightening one who wishes to remain willfully ignorant.
As an example, this remedial question
"Or mabye it's because you can't answer or justify things like, the fact that ECCM is only of use versus ECM modules/drones as opposed to everything else. This or many other arguments I've made tbh."
Yes ECCM is only useful versus ECM. Like shields are only useful versus damage and not webifiers. That isn't an argument. Its a statement of fact. Your misunderstanding of the difference and assumption there is a problem with it demonstrates precisely my point about you being unqualified to be in this discussion. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
679
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:43:00 -
[89] - Quote
If englightening equals to convincing someone ECM drones are one of the best aspects of EVE's gameplay, then no wonder I wish to remain ignorant. And tbh, at this point, we're all willingfully ignorant.
Believe it or not, ECM drones is not one of the best aspects of EVE's gameplay.
Planning is. Theorycrafting is. Piloting is. FCing is.
Not "deploy magic drones, warp out". |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
425
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:46:00 -
[90] - Quote
Are you already starting the moving of the goalpost again? I'm growing bored.
Here's a question for you. Why do you feel entitled to reprieve from ECM and that you have a right to only use a mod when you absolutely know youll need it instead of planning for the unexpected? |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |