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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
491
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Posted - 2013.09.05 05:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
So now we have T2 resists instead of bastion bonus, but I feel that VGs are still tankable. That said, I can't see this sensible outside of all-marauder fleets anyways.
Maybe nice for a change of pace, but I cannot comment on competitiveness of such fleets. And of course I'm not talking about assaults and HQs here. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Against ALL Authorities
135
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Posted - 2013.09.05 05:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
im curious if trading 3 logi for 3 more dps ships will balance that out? |
Keith Planck
League of Extraordinary Equines Disciples of Vectron
545
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Posted - 2013.09.05 06:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Rowells wrote:im curious if trading 3 logi for 3 more dps ships will balance that out?
3 logi? O.O |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Against ALL Authorities
135
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Posted - 2013.09.05 06:36:00 -
[34] - Quote
Keith Planck wrote:Rowells wrote:im curious if trading 3 logi for 3 more dps ships will balance that out? 3 logi? O.O havent been in one in a while, but thats the number i remember |
Andrew Indy
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
19
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Posted - 2013.09.05 06:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Keith Planck wrote:Rowells wrote:im curious if trading 3 logi for 3 more dps ships will balance that out? 3 logi? O.O havent been in one in a while, but thats the number i remember
depends on the fleet
Hobo fleet - 3 logi Good fleet - 2 logi Brave fleet 0-1 logi (remote reps in high on nightmares and marauders ect. (logi drones) |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Against ALL Authorities
135
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Posted - 2013.09.05 19:59:00 -
[36] - Quote
Andrew Indy wrote:Rowells wrote:Keith Planck wrote:Rowells wrote:im curious if trading 3 logi for 3 more dps ships will balance that out? 3 logi? O.O havent been in one in a while, but thats the number i remember depends on the fleet Hobo fleet - 3 logi Good fleet - 2 logi Brave fleet 0-1 logi (remote reps in high on nightmares and marauders ect. (logi drones) still curious if its possible to remove logi and switch for a dps ship. would that be a worthwhile sacrifice? |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1559
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Posted - 2013.09.05 21:44:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jill Antaris wrote:Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: There's also the issue of getting enough people who can fly marauders.
A lot of armor pilots can fly them(I got multiple marauder 5 pilots and fly my Paladin nearly every day), because Kronos and Paladin actually are pretty good ships for Incs atm. The changes make all of them more or less useless for Incs(to slow for HQ in contests, can't be RRed while in bastion mode, no web bonuses for VGs any more). I don't think throwing away 4-5 slots on every hull for active tanking will improve site times, compared to using them for painters, sensor boosters and webs and use 1-2 logis that can add another 5-10 tracking links to the gang.
Really? Without bastion mode, they should be able to fit a better buffer/resist tank (since they will get T2 resists) which should allow for more damage mods. Won't help the slower speed however. |
Andrew Indy
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
20
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Posted - 2013.09.06 01:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Andrew Indy wrote:Rowells wrote:Keith Planck wrote:Rowells wrote:im curious if trading 3 logi for 3 more dps ships will balance that out? 3 logi? O.O havent been in one in a while, but thats the number i remember depends on the fleet Hobo fleet - 3 logi Good fleet - 2 logi Brave fleet 0-1 logi (remote reps in high on nightmares and marauders ect. (logi drones) still curious if its possible to remove logi and switch for a dps ship. would that be a worthwhile sacrifice?
The problem is not the reps or the ships, its the pilots.
With 11 Marauders on the field you you could have at least 10 reps (and 2 cap transfers for stability) or 20 Reps (less stable) which is a lot more than you get with 2 Logi. However trying to manage shooting and being a logi is not that easy not to mention the 10 target lock max (you could split into groups of 5 leaving 6 targets to lock and shoot).
Back just after all of the incursion nerfs the FC I was flying with tried a remote repping legion fleet, and while technically you had enough reps on field it did not end well as everyone got confused and reps took much longer to switch ect.
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Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
97
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Posted - 2013.09.06 15:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Goldiiee wrote:Still trying to figure out if a Mini Dread can stay alive with only local reps for 80 seconds, under a full room of aggro.
They can in VGs, I ran the numbers in EFT.
Currently they will be given T2 resists, so when you place Deadspace Invuln and a DC2 on a sleipner (only for resist profile). I then threw on an X-Large deadspace shield booster, with 0 skill (So the shield boost amp skill bonus doesn't get applied). From what I remember it can burst 1700 omni DPS. Since Bastion mode doubles this, that puts it up to a 3400 DPS tank.
From there if you throw the booster onto a Marauder hull, the cap on a Vargur will last about 1:30, with a deadspace invuln and the booster running.
Considering that a standard tanked pirate battleship with 8 boosted logi reps has a tank of about 2400. Then you consider that most of the time logis will use no more then 5 reps on someone, their cap should last even longer.
For logis you could run Guardians/Basilisks with a 3-3 setup so as soon as they come out of Bastion mode they can service cap to everyone quickly.
This can be managed with everyone broadcasting in position when they enter Bastion mode, and when they exit they can broadcast for cap, if they need to be serviced, and broadcast for shield if they will be relying on the logis to tank for them (For example at the end of a site so they are not waiting for Bastion to end after the site is cleared). Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Aplier Shivra
32
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Posted - 2013.09.06 17:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
Hopelesshobo wrote:Goldiiee wrote:Still trying to figure out if a Mini Dread can stay alive with only local reps for 80 seconds, under a full room of aggro. They can in VGs, I ran the numbers in EFT. Currently they will be given T2 resists, so when you place Deadspace Invuln and a DC2 on a sleipner (only for resist profile). I then threw on an X-Large deadspace shield booster, with 0 skill (So the shield boost amp skill bonus doesn't get applied). From what I remember it can burst 1700 omni DPS. Since Bastion mode doubles this, that puts it up to a 3400 DPS tank. From there if you throw the booster onto a Marauder hull, the cap on a Vargur will last about 1:30, with a deadspace invuln and the booster running. Considering that a standard tanked pirate battleship with 8 boosted logi reps has a tank of about 2400. Then you consider that most of the time logis will use no more then 5 reps on someone, their cap should last even longer. For logis you could run Guardians/Basilisks with a 3-3 setup so as soon as they come out of Bastion mode they can service cap to everyone quickly. This can be managed with everyone broadcasting in position when they enter Bastion mode, and when they exit they can broadcast for cap, if they need to be serviced, and broadcast for shield if they will be relying on the logis to tank for them (For example at the end of a site so they are not waiting for Bastion to end after the site is cleared).
With room for 3 nosferatus in utility highs, they should be able to be cap stable long enough to run their reps for a whole VG site, especially when there are 11 marauders on field taking out the highest dps targets first, so that reps wont have to be run full-time. |
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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
194
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Posted - 2013.09.06 17:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
I think the big thing is going to be birth of the Rattlesnake anchor/tank as a staple in VG's instead of just a some times thing.
You will need that one good tank pulling as much aggro as you can with ecm/nos if you want those siege mode range monsters not to just be over whelmed in the 1 min they can't be repaired.
You'll also see more completion fleets v.s. competition fleets. So expect to see more webs and target painters from the ships that do stay up on the NPC's.
I think you might see up to 3 marauder's per VG and up to 5 in assaults. HQ's will be interesting though. |
Aplier Shivra
32
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Posted - 2013.09.06 18:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:I think the big thing is going to be birth of the Rattlesnake anchor/tank as a staple in VG's instead of just a some times thing.
You will need that one good tank pulling as much aggro as you can with ecm/nos if you want those siege mode range monsters not to just be over whelmed in the 1 min they can't be repaired.
You'll also see more completion fleets v.s. competition fleets. So expect to see more webs and target painters from the ships that do stay up on the NPC's.
I think you might see up to 3 marauder's per VG and up to 5 in assaults. HQ's will be interesting though.
The point of bastion fleets will be that each ship will local tank, with no logistics, so there will be VG fleets of 11-12 marauders all sitting in bastion. In normal fleets, I doubt the marauders will use bastion at all. |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
99
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 14:57:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aplier Shivra wrote:Hopelesshobo wrote:Goldiiee wrote:Still trying to figure out if a Mini Dread can stay alive with only local reps for 80 seconds, under a full room of aggro. They can in VGs, I ran the numbers in EFT. Currently they will be given T2 resists, so when you place Deadspace Invuln and a DC2 on a sleipner (only for resist profile). I then threw on an X-Large deadspace shield booster, with 0 skill (So the shield boost amp skill bonus doesn't get applied). From what I remember it can burst 1700 omni DPS. Since Bastion mode doubles this, that puts it up to a 3400 DPS tank. From there if you throw the booster onto a Marauder hull, the cap on a Vargur will last about 1:30, with a deadspace invuln and the booster running. Considering that a standard tanked pirate battleship with 8 boosted logi reps has a tank of about 2400. Then you consider that most of the time logis will use no more then 5 reps on someone, their cap should last even longer. For logis you could run Guardians/Basilisks with a 3-3 setup so as soon as they come out of Bastion mode they can service cap to everyone quickly. This can be managed with everyone broadcasting in position when they enter Bastion mode, and when they exit they can broadcast for cap, if they need to be serviced, and broadcast for shield if they will be relying on the logis to tank for them (For example at the end of a site so they are not waiting for Bastion to end after the site is cleared). With room for 3 nosferatus in utility highs, they should be able to be cap stable long enough to run their reps for a whole VG site, especially when there are 11 marauders on field taking out the highest dps targets first, so that reps wont have to be run full-time.
Chances are you will still want the Logis on grid because if you are 30 seconds from finishing a site, you will not want to go into another Bastion cycle, and with only a roughly 1700 burst tank at that point, it could cut it tight unless you set up your fleet to spider tank/cap transfer in such a situation.
Plus if someone gets primaried for all 3-4 waves of the site (which happens), unless they get cap serviced, unless they are rocking alot of cap mods, their tank won't hold without outside help. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
Keith Planck
Sky Fighters
547
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Oh yes, and forgot to mention with a proper deadspace X-L shield booster and a good tank, a single Vargur or Golem can tank the first wave of a Vanguard Incursion by itself. Sure, damage isn't that good when you do (you can't use cap booster, go through charges too fast, thus have to go for cap stable ), but the fact remains it's still possible. Even discussing that very fact with other designers as it most likely is far too OP for PvE.
If they can tank the first waves by themselves, they can certainly finish a site with 9-11 more DPS ships on grid, the 1st wave is usually the highest damage wave and incursion neuts don't do ****. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
59
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Posted - 2013.09.10 19:22:00 -
[45] - Quote
*cough* https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3571728#post3571728 *cough* If in doubt...do...excessively. |
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