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corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
118
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Posted - 2013.08.30 18:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
Keith Planck wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Setsune Rin wrote:Chitsa Jason wrote:I just want to barge in as CSM and mention that these things are gonna be awesome for pew. how? they will die in a fire Dreads will will bash straight through the tank as if it were a paper towel. they're enormous so you cant field big fleets of them outside home they're going to be amazing at shooting sleepers though i see some PVP niches in home defense situations where no opposing dreads are involved, deploy them at a long range and bring the pain but anything else they're just sitting ducks Ah the WH elite again. There are more WH's below C5. Many of which people have been saying for years are far to safe. Largely because of the annoyance of trying to siege a POS without dreads. Maybe this will bring more pew to the lower class WH's Also could be fun to see the effect on high sec POS operations. This is exactly what I'm thinking, mini-dreads as bad-ass siege ships to finally pop all those terri-bad poses :)
this is attually a pretty good point it will def help against dickstars in c2 to c4 (doesnt help c1 mind) but for bashing a pos you dont need tracking just damage. although could be quite fun to use a crap load of these to invade c2 c4 wh's still not sure how effect they will be and guessing you woudl need a fair few of them |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
215
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Posted - 2013.08.30 19:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
You'd only need to use them to incap the ECM mods, and could then swap them out for less expensive ships to do the bulk of the bashing. |
Eternal Corrosion
Milked eye - Jammed girl
20
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Posted - 2013.08.30 19:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
i dont like them for a serious low-class WH POS bashing.
Maybe if your group is really small, there is a chance of using them, but if you have more than 5-6 people i would use a normal 4 BS + 3 T1 logi. Obviously if they have tons and tons of ECM , bringing a 6b fleet to kill something static wouldnt be so stupid. I will always love LowSec |
Serendipity Lost
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
49
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Posted - 2013.08.30 19:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
Did you guys even notice the 10x mass multiplier when you hit the button? They will be the opposite of skinny HICs. Every wh you jump through will have me (or me and 2 of my buddies) cloaked and waiting. You jump through, I (we) uncloak and push out bastion buttons and jump though. WH pops and you're stuck (locked in or locked out - my choice). HIC bubbles make them look like shuttles and bastion activation turns my kronos into a thanny. (check my math... 100 mil BS times 10 = 1 bil thanny)
If this is how it works - you are all missing the point. |
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
57
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Posted - 2013.08.30 20:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Did you guys even notice the 10x mass multiplier when you hit the button? They will be the opposite of skinny HICs. Every wh you jump through will have me (or me and 2 of my buddies) cloaked and waiting. You jump through, I (we) uncloak and push out bastion buttons and jump though. WH pops and you're stuck (locked in or locked out - my choice). HIC bubbles make them look like shuttles and bastion activation turns my kronos into a thanny. (check my math... 100 mil BS times 10 = 1 bil thanny)
If this is how it works - you are all missing the point.
Again, this presupposes you can jump the ship through a wormhole after starting Bastion. Join End-of-Line, -EOL, today, and kill your CEO!(Terms and conditions apply.) |
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
57
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Posted - 2013.08.30 20:10:00 -
[36] - Quote
I am waiting for some tools to be available, but the 30% resist bonus on top of the resists gained from a DCU/other resist mods with *NO* stacking penalty will make these a tough nut to crack for smaller wormhole gangs of 4-5 people, and it will still take a while for larger groups to DPS their way through.
We've been discussing counters/tactics all morning in -EOL chat for dealing with a potential group of these, and while neuts are awesome, a cap boosting armor ship or a dual ASB golem/vargur may be problematic unless you have a medium sized gang with you. Since we hunt anywhere in packs of two up to 20 at peak, this may make our hunts interesting....
I mean, imagine decloaking your falcon at 80km? If they had one artillery fit vargur in a t3 fleet, your falcon is dead (you can't rep alpha). Its now Scorpion or Widow or go home if one of these things are around--not to mention, they can't be jammed when deployed. As I also mentioned, the shield fits don't have to worry about neuts as much if setup right. A small group of 4-5 of these would be nasty to run into/very hard to crack for a gang of the same size.
Of course, I don't claim to be the most pro theory crafter around. (Ask Ayeson at Hard Knocks Inc.--one of his first memories is of me microwarpdriving straight into my own bomb... that I just dropped on a Vagabond--it didn't end well, lets say, but I've learned a helluvalot in the years since). However, I can see some very... very interesting and frustrating uses of these things as brawlers.
However, as has been pointed out, due to their mass size, you won't see blobs of these beyond home hole--and I'll laugh if someone tries to use these with dreads around. Join End-of-Line, -EOL, today, and kill your CEO!(Terms and conditions apply.) |
Lydia vanPersie
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
6
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Posted - 2013.08.30 20:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Lydia vanPersie wrote:If nothing else, these will be impressive for crashing holes mid-fights. Who needs to shove orcas through when you can enter as an apoc, and leave as an archon? thats if it will allow you to jump with the bastion mode on , not managed to find anything about if that will be possible so far. as setsune rin said i just cant see them being used for pvp much. there extra tank will mean nothing at all to dreads. the mass of them will limit numbers. For home defence maybe but then if you wantto bring them in as ranged snipers tornados are much cheaper or just use a dread instead. There tracking and range is nice i guess but with no damage bonus i just cant see them being used at all for how much they cost and the mass they use
In the devpost, it was mentioned that entering bastion would give a weapons timer (Doesn't affect WH), and increases your mass by a factor of ten (None of them are heavy enough to exceed the 1,35 billion kg limit that prevents sieged/triaged caps landslides from jumping) Put two paladins on the K162 , bastion one before jumping, and one after jumping, and you've crashed the entrance in ~40 seconds. That's not even touching their potential as bumping ships (Bastion while your hot MWD is entering its third cycle, watch as their Mackinaw/orca/empty super gets rammed by you going 800 m/s with the mass of an Archon) |
SghnDubh
BattleClinic
10
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Posted - 2013.08.31 01:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote: look at some of the rebalanced ships and use your brain, instead of using years-old fittings you found on Battleclinic ^^
You're filter challenged.
BattleClinic - killboards, loadouts, ETC for EVE |
Winthorp
Disciples of BOB
199
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Posted - 2013.08.31 02:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
Was it mentioned in the devblog how long bastion mode will be? Will it even be as long as a siege timer?
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Kalel Nimrott
Sky Fighters
367
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Posted - 2013.08.31 02:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
No, the guy he mentioned is. He never said that he was the one who found them. He said that the other person should catch up. |
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Thor66777
Obstergo Bitten.
29
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Posted - 2013.08.31 03:42:00 -
[41] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:Was it mentioned in the devblog how long bastion mode will be? Will it even be as long as a siege timer?
60 secs |
Witchway
Hard Knocks Inc. Kill It With Fire
9
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Posted - 2013.08.31 06:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
I for one look forward to many more marauderlol ganks.
The fact there are people sitting in this thread thinking that fielding 2bil minimum mini dreads is a great idea for lower class wormholes is very enticing. I look forward to you being inside my burbles. |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2302
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Posted - 2013.08.31 07:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
I highly recommend every one use bastion mode marauders for wh PVE so that I can get free ganks. er, I mean for making lots of isk! |
Keith Planck
League of Extraordinary Equines Disciples of Vectron
530
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Posted - 2013.08.31 08:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:I highly recommend every one use bastion mode marauders for wh PVE so that I can get free ganks. er, I mean for making lots of isk!
what an original comment |
Random Woman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2013.08.31 08:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
But kinda true, you are the perfect warpin while in bastion mode, shortly after your the perfect loot. I dont think they are really mini dreads, because they miss the massive dmg bonus, so they are not really an alternative to tear down poses in lower end WHS, might aswell take a fleet of Domies or navy vexors, at least those can catch reps.
The only pve they might be interisting for are C4 sites, but then half the marauder will have problems hitting those far away spawn or will rely heavy on cap charges because of the neut, guess the good old 3 domies/tengu thing is easier to train/cheaper/faster more secure |
Setsune Rin
Bite Me inc Bitten.
55
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Posted - 2013.08.31 11:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Ah the WH elite again.
There are more WH's below C5. Many of which people have been saying for years are far to safe. Largely because of the annoyance of trying to siege a POS without dreads. Maybe this will bring more pew to the lower class WH's
Also could be fun to see the effect on high sec POS operations.
so you want to field a dozen or so billion isk battleships to destroy a POS while the bastion mod gives no damage bonus?
thats gonna take HOURS
please, please do this
i imagine we'll find a few of these every week to pad the killboard a bit |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
3306
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Posted - 2013.08.31 12:01:00 -
[47] - Quote
How many Proteuses do you need to kill one Kronos in a Bastion cycle?
Ten Thousand Years is recruiting pioneer spirits to Solitude. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Polarized.
962
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Posted - 2013.08.31 12:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
Without having an increase in dps, I really don't see a place for these ships in wormhole PVP.
They might be good for sniper fleets but with a close range setup, like a blaster kronos for example, a 25% increase to optimal isn't going to count for anything.
The bastion module should inlude a 25% bonus to weapon damage and scan resolution
Putting work in since 2010. |
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
91
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Posted - 2013.08.31 12:29:00 -
[49] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Did you guys even notice the 10x mass multiplier when you hit the button? They will be the opposite of skinny HICs. Every wh you jump through will have me (or me and 2 of my buddies) cloaked and waiting. You jump through, I (we) uncloak and push out bastion buttons and jump though. WH pops and you're stuck (locked in or locked out - my choice). HIC bubbles make them look like shuttles and bastion activation turns my kronos into a thanny. (check my math... 100 mil BS times 10 = 1 bil thanny)
If this is how it works - you are all missing the point.
It increases mass to make bumping harder, and to slow the ship down to 0 quicker, same as a dread. Since it has a max speed of 0 it cannot jump through a wormhole. Seeing as the point of the module is to be forced to be stationary for 60 seconds you won't be able to jump a WH, same as triage or siege.
I don't see this being teribly useful for WH space w/o a DPS bonus. They may be able to hold their own agaisnt a non-dread fleet, but theyre also paper thin w/o cap, which they still aren't immune to. 2 neut legions and theyre just a very expensive killmail. If were talking about sniping with them itll go same way as when the enemies land a fleet of t3 BCs. you just leave. if your not prepared to fight a sniping fleet, and if you are you just kill them.
If your having trouble killing dickstars just dont let the ecm batteries jam you. POSes with only ecm batteries are the easiest kind to kill.
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unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
46
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Posted - 2013.08.31 12:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
They still have their role bonus of 100% so they shoot shoot harder then a ormal bs though. So the mass/dps ratio is bether then normal battleships. |
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ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
91
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Posted - 2013.08.31 12:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
they dont though, they get 100% dmg bonus, with half of the turrets. that bonus only exists to give them utility highs. |
corbexx
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
118
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Posted - 2013.08.31 14:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
Roime wrote:How many Proteuses do you need to kill one Kronos in a Bastion cycle?
considering most wh fleets run with alot of nuets (and scrambers to keep them from running after bastion mode) not alot
still waiting to hear from chista and james on if they can jump while in bastion mode. although as thor6677 said woudl be same as a dread jumpingwhile seiged or a triage carrier jumpingwhile triaged so yeah cant see it happing but confimation would be nice |
ROSSLINDEN0
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
131
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Posted - 2013.08.31 14:29:00 -
[53] - Quote
should have called it Beast Mode didn't we teach them anything with ATX |
Lydia vanPersie
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
7
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:33:00 -
[54] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:Was it mentioned in the devblog how long bastion mode will be? Will it even be as long as a siege timer?
80 Seconds base, -5% duration p/l for 60 seconds with Bastion V. |
illirdor
Yamato Heavy Industries
54
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Posted - 2013.08.31 16:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
The Vargur with HG crystals and XLASB is gonna tank like a beast :) its not impossible to take down but still.
Soooo this is my sig....-á |
Random Woman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2013.08.31 18:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
Is it really the max speed 0 that fails the WH jump? Dreads and carriers in triage also get a mass bonus (x10 comes with siege and triage module), that bonus put em above the max jump mass for a wh, so they cant get through. A battleship hull wouldnt have that problem as long as it stays under 135,000,000 kg |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2302
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 22:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
Roime wrote:How many Proteuses do you need to kill one Kronos in a Bastion cycle? one. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
42
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Posted - 2013.08.31 22:52:00 -
[58] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Roime wrote:How many Proteuses do you need to kill one Kronos in a Bastion cycle? one.
While you could probably solo one of these Kronoses with a Proteus, you definitely can't do it in sixty seconds. |
Keith Planck
League of Extraordinary Equines Disciples of Vectron
531
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 03:04:00 -
[59] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Roime wrote:How many Proteuses do you need to kill one Kronos in a Bastion cycle? one. While you could probably solo one of these Kronoses with a Proteus, you definitely can't do it in sixty seconds.
1v1?
If it's a buffer proteus vs a PvE fit kornos with 4000 tank, webs target painter, ect...
Even if it wasn't a cloakie proteus...
Regardless all you need to do is hold him till your 30 man legion fleet shows up... |
Joan Greywind
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
107
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Posted - 2013.09.01 07:49:00 -
[60] - Quote
Finally a shiny farmer that can't warp instantly with a slow heavy ship. Carebear tears are the tastiest of them all. Oh **** I just realized I am also a kind of carebear, that is probably how I know how the tears taste like. |
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