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Neo Hal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2013.09.02 18:32:00 -
[181] - Quote
Fia Magrath wrote:It's a simple exchange really - you get blown up, concord blows me up. If its worth it then its just business, maybe you should mine in a rokh?
I actually agree with this a lot.
I don't think the mechanics regarding ganking really need to be changed. Newbies should stay in hi-sec where they're relatively safe. If anyone who is unprepared or unable to defend themselves goes to low-sec or 0.0 then the risk is on them and if they lose their ship then so be it.
I don't really ever go to low/null because I don't feel like I can defend myself...yet.
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Danbar Roth
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
67
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Posted - 2013.09.02 18:39:00 -
[182] - Quote
Make it so you cannot bio-mass a character with a negative sec status. to avoid the throw away chars! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16295
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Posted - 2013.09.02 18:47:00 -
[183] - Quote
Danbar Roth wrote:Make it so you cannot bio-mass a character with a negative sec status. to avoid the throw away chars! The use of throw-away characters is most likely an incredibly overblown occurrence anyway. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1310
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Posted - 2013.09.02 19:06:00 -
[184] - Quote
Danbar Roth wrote:Make it so you cannot bio-mass a character with a negative sec status. to avoid the throw away chars!
That'd be cool.
Then people can just throw away the entire account when all three are negative. And you've solved nothing.
Ignoring the fact that Tippia is likely correct, and throw-away alts aren't as big an occurence as some people like to make out. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13090
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Posted - 2013.09.02 19:16:00 -
[185] - Quote
I was under the impression that biomassing a negative sec status alt was already frowned upon by CCP.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
737
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Posted - 2013.09.02 19:39:00 -
[186] - Quote
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:Renault T'Bonin wrote:Elizabeth Aideron wrote:So what you're saying is that you can't think of a response against me. Nope... I'm saying it's the appropriate response. Harry Forever is a player so bad that he puts WCS on bombers. And yet, he has killed many of our untanked industrials, including multiple DSTs. I'm sure you're capable of at least that.
you are too stupid to understand the WCS ... |
baltec1
Bat Country
7776
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Posted - 2013.09.02 20:01:00 -
[187] - Quote
Danbar Roth wrote:Make it so you cannot bio-mass a character with a negative sec status. to avoid the throw away chars!
Its a bannable offence and we do not do this or have ever done this. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7776
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Posted - 2013.09.02 20:04:00 -
[188] - Quote
Fia Magrath wrote:It's a simple exchange really - you get blown up, concord blows me up. If its worth it then its just business, maybe you should mine in a rokh?
Nope, even that goes wrong for them |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
13090
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Posted - 2013.09.02 20:10:00 -
[189] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Fia Magrath wrote:It's a simple exchange really - you get blown up, concord blows me up. If its worth it then its just business, maybe you should mine in a rokh? Nope, even that goes wrong for them Navy Domi's fare no better
edit oh ROFL @ the Rokh dieing to an Itty 5
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4268
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Posted - 2013.09.02 20:19:00 -
[190] - Quote
Nothing like expensive losses There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
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Cismet
Icon Inc.
1
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Posted - 2013.09.02 23:03:00 -
[191] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[quote=Forum Damsel]You seem to be missing the point the OP was making. You mean the point that old players (who should know better) feel like they can't retaliate against people attacking them? No, I got that point just fine. I know he stuck a GÇ£think of the newbiesGÇ¥ on at the end, but that wasn't actually what he was complaining about GÇö it was just a very silly attempt to make his own decisions look like a systematic problem.
Either you're psychic and can read his mind, or you're simply projecting what you want to "hear" into your interpretation of the original post. The simplest solution is that he meant exactly what he wrote when he posted it. If I wanted to say I thought something was unfair, I'd just say that. Given that he admitted he was posting on an Alt why would he not just post exactly what he was trying to say in the first place?
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Till Riedell
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
1
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Posted - 2013.09.03 02:45:00 -
[192] - Quote
I don't suppose you could be more specific about what kind of consequences you are proposing? I have ganked regularly and intend to do so in the future. I do not normaly gank above a 0.7 system and anything other than macks and hulks, as it becomes we need to many people in a higher sec status system to kill a ship with a proper tank. We also generally do not target t1 ships as it is not profitable. Some people do for lols ofc.
In regards to fighting, when ever someone comes to fight shadow cartel over just about anything we will fight, gank or not. that is our favorite thing to do. We gank for fun on the side of our normal pvp activities. frankly i can not remember the last time someone has actualy come to fight us after we were ganked. I would love to fight you guys, you just have to realize we are not going to undock into a fleet that will 100% blob the hell out of us (not that i have ever seen a non pvp entity do this to us) |
Nalestom Zypher
Jester's Hole
1
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Posted - 2013.09.03 03:08:00 -
[193] - Quote
The OP's dilemma assumes that he is successfully suicide-ganked in the first place. I think that's where the main problem lies in this whole matter.
If your mining barge doesn't have any tank whatsoever, then you're an extremely juicy target for suicide gankers. If your mining barge is tanked out, you'll still be a juicy target, but you'll most likely survive the attempt on your life unless they use quite a large force to attack you. If you prevent yourself from dying to suicide gankers in the first place, you don't even have to worry about this whole retaliation/retribution business.
The reason why people abuse the ganking-alt mechanics is because they know for a fact that they'll be able to get quite a few kills and get away with it, because 75% of all highsec miners think that they're immortal and fit their mining barges for optimal yield, not optimal tank. If mining barges had tankier fits more often, then suicide ganking would not be nearly as much of a profitable venture as it is today.
High security space != Completely secure space |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4278
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Posted - 2013.09.03 03:47:00 -
[194] - Quote
Nalestom Zypher wrote: If your mining barge doesn't have any tank whatsoever, then you're an extremely juicy target for suicide gankers.
75% of all highsec miners think that they're immortal and fit their mining barges for optimal yield, not optimal tank
A wonderful interaction between player choices. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
249
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Posted - 2013.09.03 04:06:00 -
[195] - Quote
Till Riedell wrote:frankly i can not remember the last time someone has actualy come to fight us after we were ganked. I would love to fight you guys, you just have to realize we are not going to undock into a fleet that will 100% blob the hell out of us (not that i have ever seen a non pvp entity do this to us) Well in their defense it's not really possible to fight after ganks. Gankers pick up a criminal flag, so they can't undock in a ship without it getting Concorded. So there is no way for the miner and his corp to immediately respond. Once the timer ends, they could conceivably trigger the kill right and attack. But in my experience, I haven't seen many gankers stick around in system after a gank. Gankers hit, the scout loots, gankers vanish, and all that is left is the sobbing tears of the miner (once they get back to keyboard). Seriously, what are the victims gonna do to fight? Wardec the gankers? Realistically that's not gonna happen.
Even the kill rights thing later on isn't really gonna work. It's not like the gankers are gonna be cruising around in hi-sec in freighters or faction BSs. In hi-sec they are gonna be in Catalysts and Thrashers (and who cares if one of those die). Outside of hi-sec the kill rights don't matter and it's just a normal brawl. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4278
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Posted - 2013.09.03 04:11:00 -
[196] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:It's not like the gankers are gonna be cruising around in hi-sec in freighters or faction BSs. In hi-sec they are gonna be in Catalysts and Thrashers (and who cares if one of those die). Clearly they need to be tricked into flying something they can't afford to lose.
Like blinged-out-on-yield, no-tank-at-all mining ships. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2098
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Posted - 2013.09.03 09:07:00 -
[197] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Well in their defense it's not really possible to fight after ganks. Gankers pick up a criminal flag, so they can't undock in a ship without it getting Concorded. So there is no way for the miner and his corp to immediately respond. Once the timer ends, they could conceivably trigger the kill right and attack. But in my experience, I haven't seen many gankers stick around in system after a gank. Gankers hit, the scout loots, gankers vanish, and all that is left is the sobbing tears of the miner (once they get back to keyboard). Seriously, what are the victims gonna do to fight? Wardec the gankers? Realistically that's not gonna happen Most organised ganking outfits live in lowsec (Fweddit, shadow cartel who you are quoting) or nullsec (CFC's Miniluv, Brick Squad, others) so you don't even need the magic of wardecs to go exact penance. There are buttmad people in Deklein literally every day doing just that, for their own reasons. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
9852
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Posted - 2013.09.03 10:03:00 -
[198] - Quote
This thread delivers. You may gain the knowledge, but you will lose your belief, with all its mystery and comfort. If there was proof, absolute and certain, there is an afterlife, why not quit this life, and be done with it? Ponder about these things all your life, and you're a philosopher. Compress these ponderings into a couple of pages, and you'll go mad. |
Forum Damsel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.09.04 01:54:00 -
[199] - Quote
I am new to the game and I hate PvP... especially ganking.
how about this for a system of discouraging noob ganking in High sec?
One (1) person has kill rights against you... Any character in your account is removed from the biomass process. You may NOT terminate a character in this account. This character is ALSO maked as a criminal until the kill rights expire
Two (2) people have kill rights against you... this character may NOT use any stargate which goes to a high sec system (even if you're already in a high sec system, which would mean you're stuck where you are)
Three (3) people have kill rights against you... this character may NOT dock at any NPC owned station in a high sec system. Concord will fire on you immediately if you approach a stargate or station it protects in High sec
Four (4) people have kill rights against you... This character may NOT use a stargate which goes to a high sec or a low sec system
Five (5) people have kill rights against you... This character may NOT dock at a NPC owned station in a High Sec or a Low Sec system.
With such a system in place, I figure the PvP action will gravitate to where it belongs... away from new players in High Sec.
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Shander Maxum
L'Avant Garde
3
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Posted - 2013.09.04 02:21:00 -
[200] - Quote
Just look at the disposable player characters as NPCs with good AI and a penchant for terrorist attacks.
Go kill some other little red box rats to feel like you got even.
...
Really, people don' t need to feel differernt just because there is another player behind the danger introduced to the universe in randomly somewhat less predictable ways (but still there are patterns to know if you're taking a 1 in 100 russian roulette odd of dieing in 1 hour or if you'd only be unlucky 1 time in 500 hours of play doing the activity in a slightly different place with extra preparati |
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Jonathan Peak
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.09.04 02:22:00 -
[201] - Quote
Forum Damsel wrote:I am new to the game and I hate PvP... especially ganking.
[Stuff]
With such a system in place, I figure the PvP action will gravitate to where it belongs... away from new players in High Sec.
I'd only support that sort of system if there were ways to get around it. Namely, if CONCORD weren't invincible and impossible to escape (which I wish were the case anyway), and if NPC stations could be bribed into allowing docking, and if stargates could be hacked or something, then a penalty of CONCORD always shooting and NPC stations and gates being "off limits" might work.
That is to say, make the penalties a pain but not absolutely game-breaking. Gankers deserve to have their fun too.
As for the throwaway alt bit, I'm really not sure there is a good way to combat that unless in-game penalties are applied account-wide, but with the importance of spying in EVE, that doesn't seem like an acceptable solution either, ease of maintaining several accounts notwithstanding. |
Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
192
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Posted - 2013.09.04 02:27:00 -
[202] - Quote
Biomassing to avoid sec status penalties is bannable. |
Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
192
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Posted - 2013.09.04 02:31:00 -
[203] - Quote
Forum Damsel wrote:I am new to the game and I hate PvP... especially ganking.
how about this for a system of discouraging noob ganking in High sec?
One (1) person has kill rights against you... Any character in your account is removed from the biomass process. You may NOT terminate a character in this account. This character is ALSO maked as a criminal until the kill rights expire
Two (2) people have kill rights against you... this character may NOT use any stargate which goes to a high sec system (even if you're already in a high sec system, which would mean you're stuck where you are)
Three (3) people have kill rights against you... this character may NOT dock at any NPC owned station in a high sec system. Concord will fire on you immediately if you approach a stargate or station it protects in High sec
Four (4) people have kill rights against you... This character may NOT use a stargate which goes to a high sec or a low sec system
Five (5) people have kill rights against you... This character may NOT dock at a NPC owned station in a High Sec or a Low Sec system.
With such a system in place, I figure the PvP action will gravitate to where it belongs... away from new players in High Sec.
This would only encourage alts. Why would anyone gank on their main if it got locked in a ****** highsec system for 30 days? Station lockouts are trivial to get around using a POS (powered by another alt, of course!) |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
416
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Posted - 2013.09.04 02:47:00 -
[204] - Quote
Forum Damsel wrote:I am new to the game and I hate PvP... especially ganking.
how about this for a system of discouraging noob ganking in High sec?
One (1) person has kill rights against you... Any character in your account is removed from the biomass process. You may NOT terminate a character in this account. This character is ALSO maked as a criminal until the kill rights expire
Two (2) people have kill rights against you... this character may NOT use any stargate which goes to a high sec system (even if you're already in a high sec system, which would mean you're stuck where you are)
Three (3) people have kill rights against you... this character may NOT dock at any NPC owned station in a high sec system. Concord will fire on you immediately if you approach a stargate or station it protects in High sec
Four (4) people have kill rights against you... This character may NOT use a stargate which goes to a high sec or a low sec system
Five (5) people have kill rights against you... This character may NOT dock at a NPC owned station in a High Sec or a Low Sec system.
With such a system in place, I figure the PvP action will gravitate to where it belongs... away from new players in High Sec.
You're assuming CCP doesn't want folks ganking. Your assumption is wrong.
Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
147
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Posted - 2013.09.04 03:05:00 -
[205] - Quote
Confirming that there are no characters like ABrakadabra21 or Insta Podkiller or qqq111 or durka Gaterau or trololo Arji
Honestly, recycling characters is kind of wasteful though. I mean, look at Insta Podkiller - he was graduated from a lowly rookie suicider to a full blown catalyst suicider. |
Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
192
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Posted - 2013.09.04 03:14:00 -
[206] - Quote
None of those characters are biomassed. I saw Insta Podkiller just last week. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7817
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Posted - 2013.09.04 03:16:00 -
[207] - Quote
If you have evidence of people recycling alts then report them and get them banned. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
147
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Posted - 2013.09.04 03:18:00 -
[208] - Quote
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:None of those characters are biomassed. I saw Insta Podkiller just last week.
Pretty sure everyone but Insta Podkiller is, and he was obviously included for the second sentence.
baltec1 wrote:If you have evidence of people recycling alts then report them and get them banned.
Looking to edge out the competition by playing it lawful I see. You have to admit that Hijacker guy is pretty damn efficient. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
250
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Posted - 2013.09.04 04:55:00 -
[209] - Quote
ummm... Why would anybody recycle a ganking alt now days? You just use your lowsec main to do it when bored. Tags to fix sec status if necessary. And then spend the remainder of your time in lowsec shooting idiots with your space bros, and hope some poor moron comes to try and cash in the Kill Rights. "Onoez! Please don't bring the PvP to me on a silver platter. Whatever shall I do?!" |
Shander Maxum
L'Avant Garde
3
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Posted - 2013.09.04 05:03:00 -
[210] - Quote
To keep everyone from getting all hurt about it .. they should let players sit in and control rats on belts and take some of the rats out of mission sites and have them fly out to gates in high sec and try to gank people .
At least people would be able to shoot at them as soon as they appear (I agree with that point...its more that you can't pre-emtively kill them.. not that you can't get revenge. Revenge is a petty human emotion.) |
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