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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2725
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:13:00 -
[1441] - Quote
So no joy on the subscription tracker?...
Also, is it me, or is CCP getting a lot colder with customer relations ever since that EA guy showed up. Someone used Raise Dead Minion on Greed is Good?
EDIT: Achievement unlocked: Page Sniper
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Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
168
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:16:00 -
[1442] - Quote
Ed Tekki wrote:Interesting legal fact:
Anyone with an account that pre-dates the ToS change is not yet bound by the new rules, as there has been no new ToS agreement requests when entering the game.
You're forgetting that the old rules are the same as the new rules and vice versa, and they always have been.
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captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:17:00 -
[1443] - Quote
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:You're forgetting that the old rules are the same as the new rules and vice versa, and they always have been.
....you say in the Terms of Service change thread. |
Laurianne Leone
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
24
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:19:00 -
[1444] - Quote
captain foivos wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:You're forgetting that the old rules are the same as the new rules and vice versa, and they always have been.
....you say in the Terms of Service change thread.
'Rewording' thread thank you very much. Don't be misrepresenting GMs intentions in this thread Money ain't got no owners, only spenders RIP Omar Little-á |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3781
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:21:00 -
[1445] - Quote
Refusing to answer the questions presented does not make community concern go away. I'm shocked that CCP still haven't managed to learn this. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Grimpak
Duty. The Cursed Few
1096
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:22:00 -
[1446] - Quote
arabella blood wrote:the clearer the law, the less problematic the interpretation is, the easier is to pass judgement.
Actually NO, beeing as i am IRL Lawyer, i promise to you - "the less problematic the interpetetion" does not result in "the easier is to pass judgment"...but that's IRL law stuff and a bit out of place here, despite the TOS beeing a legal thing.[/quote] point taken.
still think there's quite the amount of wording on the ToS that could use clarification and simplification, even if you needed to hire people from the legal field to do it. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3781
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:22:00 -
[1447] - Quote
I have 2 characters with similar names. Am I going to get banned for telling people that I'm Mallak Azaria on another character? The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2725
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:23:00 -
[1448] - Quote
It doesn't matter though. I don't think they're going to do anything at all now. They said the 'final word' and that was it. Cold shouldered. Very corporate lawyer style. Not like CCP at all.
Honestly I don't even see the point of talking about this. The company won't do anything until subs drop again. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but that seems to be the only thing that gets to them...unless they REALLY wanna make Eve more safe to work at the EA model of online gaming; high volume, high turnaround, and new gimmicks to keep the volume up.
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3781
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:26:00 -
[1449] - Quote
I setup 4 POS towers the other day for moon mining. One of the harvesters is stuck on 'Starting up'. This moon harvester is impersonating an active moon harvester, under the rules of the new TOS I demand you to permanently ban this moon harvester. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Soaran Sikadi
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
3
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:28:00 -
[1450] - Quote
So, now that we know what the GMs have decided policy is, perhaps they should consider changing it, seeing as how this is not what the playerbase wants, nor is it what the playerbase thought policy was.
From what I can tell, most people seem to be in agreement that: * Impersonating CCP/ISD = not cool * Impersonating via homograph attack = borderline * Everything else = OK
I can't really see any reason to not change the policy to this, as the current policy * Assumes that people never need to use alts as part of the same identity, whether in scam or non-scam work * Has vague descriptions of what is and isn't a "group" which will likely be arbitrarily decided (e.g. the question of whether someone lying about having paid a new order fee is impersonating a member of the new order, vs someone claiming to be a CFC rental authority) * Goes against the spirit of the game where anything anyone says could potentially be a lie. * Prevents a large class of scams the playerbase seems to want to exist.
It feels like CCP is not hearing the playerbase on this, and is letting some weird disconnected GM department ruin their game while they work on the next patch. |
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Miss Altiana
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:29:00 -
[1451] - Quote
The tears in this thread is off epic proportions |
Mr Pragmatic
641
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:32:00 -
[1452] - Quote
As a scam artist with multiple alts this makes me a sad panda. AM I allowed to pretend to be a panda? Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness. -á-Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2726
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:32:00 -
[1453] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Anslo wrote:It doesn't matter though. I don't think they're going to do anything at all now. They said the 'final word' and that was it. Because history has shown us that this works.
That's what I'm saying. They don't care about history. They're just doing it. They're taking a new direction and I think they don't give a damn about the long term players' opinions.
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Isis Dea
Combat Cruise Control
44
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:35:00 -
[1454] - Quote
Anslo wrote:So no joy on the subscription tracker?...
Also, is it me, or is CCP getting a lot colder with customer relations ever since that EA guy showed up. Someone used Raise Dead Minion on Greed is Good?
EDIT: Achievement unlocked: Page Sniper
It is starting to feel that way...
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Jngar
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:40:00 -
[1455] - Quote
ccp, what happend to htfu? |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2726
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:42:00 -
[1456] - Quote
Isis Dea wrote:Anslo wrote:So no joy on the subscription tracker?...
Also, is it me, or is CCP getting a lot colder with customer relations ever since that EA guy showed up. Someone used Raise Dead Minion on Greed is Good?
EDIT: Achievement unlocked: Page Sniper It is starting to feel that way...
Yeah, it's a recent thing. There's a LOT of stonewalling when back in say...2007 there was none? Wat.
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Laurianne Leone
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
24
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:45:00 -
[1457] - Quote
Mr Pragmatic wrote:As a scam artist with multiple alts this makes me a sad panda. AM I allowed to pretend to be a panda?
No, step away from the post button, we wouldn't want a ban now would we?
You'd better biomass those alts and close their accounts before even the implication you might have an alt related tangentially to a perceived scam results in your permabanning. Money ain't got no owners, only spenders RIP Omar Little-á |
Darthzeta
EVE Protection Agency Bloodline.
5
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:46:00 -
[1458] - Quote
Pfft if spying, Intelligence gathering, and Sabutage is bannable then its black marketed. More money maybe? I wont stop till ALL my chars get banned and then i will just stop playing eve and enjoy RL. But really this is ******* stupid. Corps do this stuff IRL like similar names and logos. But the part about claiming to be a representive of someone should be legit Because It makes sense. If they believe you that is their fault. Its not even impersonation. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
5767
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:46:00 -
[1459] - Quote
Madlof Chev wrote:also ali aras is possibly the most awful, selfserving, scumsucking brown-nose of a csm I've ever seen
gog damn i'd rather have darius iii on csm8 There's always at least one... My Youtube Channel Latest video: August 25, 2013 |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2728
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:46:00 -
[1460] - Quote
Banning to make way for the new influx of Madden 20xx (where x is any number). BRING ON THE HIGH TURN OVER!
Edit: Achievement Unlocked: L33t Spaece Page Sniper
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Murk Paradox
Duty. The Cursed Few
504
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:48:00 -
[1461] - Quote
Orakkus wrote:Djan Sarpati wrote: As for CSMs, pretty certain Mynna was dead against the changes and said so in a locked thread.
Well this makes me feel a little better then, that it just didn't get push through without thought from the CSM. So, from the list of CSMs, I thus get: Ali Aras - Did not think the changes were an issue Ripard Teg - Was concerned about the wording (as per his blog) Mynnna - Disagreed with the changes Malcanis - Not sure if they were an issue That being said, it still seems to me that the full weight of these changes were either overlooked, or how it was worded was something that CCP could easily fix later.
Funny thing is that if they post, they represent CSM as an entity, and cannot use an alt to post as that player.
It's almost like the TOS is worded so vaguely that not even the CSM can talk to their constituents. This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate. |
LTHenrich Lehmann
The Royal Engineers
5
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:49:00 -
[1462] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:LTHenrich Lehmann wrote:Eram Fidard wrote:Player: Can I be banned for telling the truth?
GM Karidor: Yes.
^^ And this here is exactly why GMs should not be allowed to dictate policy. This in isolation as you have it should be completly correct depending on what the 'truth' is that is being told as long as that truth incurrs something that is bannable from say e.g. the EULA take your pick of any that apply. This is why isolation, out of context posts prove nothing, they add no value and contribute nothing constructive to getting a resolution to (insert item under discussion) . sorry, but really, after so much, players "we need clarification blah blah posts", a GM bothers to try and help understanding of perceived issues etc, at least show some respect to that fact. I know feelings are running high but this won't help at all. I have yet to see a GM understand the issue. The post you quoted was the extreme shorthand if a couple of replies that GM Karidor made. It's short, to the point and correct. You need not do anything else than impersonate your other character to get penalised (Warned, banned, permabanned) if reported. You don't have to break the EULA, you already broke the TOS which can get you banned. The truth here refers to saying that he was one of his own alts. The GM did not understand, did not help, and need no respect. I'll respect CCP staff that actually shows they know what end of the digestive system they're speaking out of.
Based on your response here it seems you completely missunderstood my point.
My point is that, any post, in any thread, that does nothing to help arrive at a resolution to any problem not just this TOS, where that post takes a quotation from another person or information from another source out of context with the purpose of making an invalid point or in order to insult a person or group of people or to generally cause further bad feelings, etc, then that contributes nothing of value.
There is already a request to keep the dialog civil which as far as I am concerned is just plain good manners and should not need requesting, but hey that is just me I guess.
The rest of the post was simply to point out that the (in this case) GM that responded to multiple player requests for clarification, which the GM attempted to do, deserves the respect (one would hope) for doing so, knowing that in all likelyhood the reception from the players would be, shall we say potentially unfriendly and contentious. Therefore despite this fact the GM did their best to assist.
Whether or not, in your opinion, the GM did a sufficiently good job at understanding, explaining or any other preconceived idea which you may have, about what a GM should or should not do, is irrelavant. We are all here to enjoy the game and we are at the end of the day people with feelings, therefore to show a little common courtesy and respect whether or not we get what we want or expect is surely not a lot to ask.
I was in no way interested in debating the points of this thread further as I did that much earlier, therefore my points were only in connection with the civility factor.
I hope this clears up the point sufficiently.
I look forward to any continuing constructive civil debate and the eventual responses from CCP et al, hopefully at that time we will know better where things stand. |
LTHenrich Lehmann
The Royal Engineers
7
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Posted - 2013.09.13 17:56:00 -
[1463] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:LTHenrich Lehmann wrote:Eram Fidard wrote:Player: Can I be banned for telling the truth?
GM Karidor: Yes.
^^ And this here is exactly why GMs should not be allowed to dictate policy. This in isolation as you have it should be completly correct depending on what the 'truth' is that is being told as long as that truth incurrs something that is bannable from say e.g. the EULA take your pick of any that apply. This is why isolation, out of context posts prove nothing, they add no value and contribute nothing constructive to getting a resolution to (insert item under discussion) . sorry, but really, after so much, players "we need clarification blah blah posts", a GM bothers to try and help understanding of perceived issues etc, at least show some respect to that fact. I know feelings are running high but this won't help at all. You're right, it was a **** move. I was honestly surprised to see the 'final word' had been 're-re-clarified' by Karidor to even more disastrous interpretation. Still no dev response, though. I think you interpret my post too literally though. It was a dumbed-down simplification that illustrates the perils of speaking and/or interpreting in broad, vague ways. Not meant as gospel, though I admit it came across a little bitter.
Thanks for pointing this out I guess the written word does not always reflect the intention of the writer when read by someone else.
Therefore based on this I apologise for missinterpreting your intent. |
Desivo Delta Visseroff
Cedar Knolls Research STEEL BROTHERHOOD
10
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Posted - 2013.09.13 18:02:00 -
[1464] - Quote
Full disclosure: I'm still a "carebear" (that could care less..lol)
So, while I should do my usual thing like mission, salvage and maybe mine the next time I login, this TOS change makes me feel like buying a few megas & disco bomb ALL the noob stations over the weekend.
Let's see how friendly EVE feels after THAT!!! |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
299
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Posted - 2013.09.13 18:03:00 -
[1465] - Quote
LTHenrich Lehmann wrote:the written word does not always reflect the intention of the writer when read by someone else.
Now that is gospel.
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Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
433
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Posted - 2013.09.13 18:08:00 -
[1466] - Quote
LTHenrich Lehmann wrote:My point is that, any post, in any thread, that does nothing to help arrive at a resolution to any problem not just this TOS, where that post takes a quotation from another person or information from another source out of context with the purpose of making an invalid point or in order to insult a person or group of people or to generally cause further bad feelings, etc, then that contributes nothing of value. Who was misrepresented or what was taken out of context?
Quote:which the GM attempted to do, deserves the respect (one would hope) for doing so, knowing that in all likelyhood the reception from the players would be, shall we say potentially unfriendly and contentious. Therefore despite this fact the GM did their best to assist. Credit for owning up to leaving excrements all over the game concept?
Quote:I was in no way interested in debating the points of this thread further as I did that much earlier, therefore my points were only in connection with the civility factor.
I hope this clears up the point sufficiently.
I look forward to any continuing constructive civil debate and the eventual responses from CCP et al, hopefully at that time we will know better where things stand. It would be nice if they hadn't lied with the "no changes, only rewording" approach, I agree. However we do know where it stands. GM Karidor gave us a final word and clarified to say what you saw. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
2729
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Posted - 2013.09.13 18:12:00 -
[1467] - Quote
So I did a thing here.
If you agree with it, sound off.
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IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid
370
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Posted - 2013.09.13 18:15:00 -
[1468] - Quote
Could we make a new zone in the game where all scamming is banned? Also remove suicide ganking and wardecs. Maybe we could somehow incorporate this with Incarana? like going down on to planets. We could make new missions with level 4 quest givers.
The funny thing is, by posting this in the same thread as 'you can be banned for telling the truth' it isn't even the dumbest post. Capital Shop temporarily closed. |
Lionel Joeseph
MIS Auxiliaries Kadeshians
0
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Posted - 2013.09.13 18:16:00 -
[1469] - Quote
So let me get this straight. It is against the ToS to impersonate anyone including myself (which mind you is impossible by definition) So literally if I say that I'm my own alt this would be impersonation? That's completely impossible they know that right.
The dictionary defines impersonation as im-+per-+son-+ate transitive verb \im--êp+Ör-s+Ö--în-üt\ : to pretend to be (another person)
Do they not see the paradox? |
Isis Dea
Combat Cruise Control
46
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Posted - 2013.09.13 18:28:00 -
[1470] - Quote
Lionel Joeseph wrote:So let me get this straight. It is against the ToS to impersonate anyone including myself (which mind you is impossible by definition) So literally if I say that I'm my own alt this would be impersonation? That's completely impossible they know that right.
The dictionary defines impersonation as im-+per-+son-+ate transitive verb \im--êp+Ör-s+Ö--în-üt\ : to pretend to be (another person)
Do they not see the paradox?
If your alt is on the same account, possibly. If not, there are no means (perhaps unless you use something like a common email address, to which you'll have to point out during investigation) -to determine if you own that alt. |
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