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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
RomeStar
Dust Runners
260
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Posted - 2013.09.11 15:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
Its sad what EVE is slowly becoming. By codling these new players we are actually hurting them in the long run. What will happen eventually is that one day a new player older than 30 days is going to be ganked or scammed in a nice expensive ship which will result in rage/quit. By losing cheap ships and being scammed with a small wallet it atleast prepares them for the future and possibly educates them on how to avoid such treachery. Signatured removed, CCP Phantom |
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
758
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Posted - 2013.09.11 15:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
Grinder2210 wrote:You Decide CCP Has made some changes to the Rookie Systems Rule https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_SystemsIm all for helping and teaching new players the game, but the wording clearly sets ground work makeing shooting any new player in any system a offance Old Wording : Warning: Attempting to trick new players in to situations where you can fire on them freely, such as can flipping them, in these systems is prohibited. New Wording : Warning: Attempting to abuse a new playerGÇÖs lack of knowledge of the game and its mechanic for your personal gain or simply for their harm is prohibited in these solar systems. This includes, but is not limited to; tricking new players into situations where you or others may open fire on them freely or scamming ISK or assets from them. Disregarding warnings to cease such behavior from authorized CCP personnel is considered to be in violation of section 6 of the EVE Online Terms of Service. Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areas may be subject to further restrictions as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team.
:D hey grinder! :'D seems your party camping epic arc mission objectives is over ... |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4610
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Posted - 2013.09.11 15:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Grinder2210 wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:
It does not say "Starter system restrictions will now be strictly enforced throughout EVE" as you are trying to infer.
That pritty much exactly what it says Warning: Attempting to abuse a new playerGÇÖs lack of knowledge of the game and its mechanic for your personal gain or simply for their harm is prohibited in these solar systems. This includes, but is not limited to; tricking new players into situations where you or others may open fire on them freely or scamming ISK or assets from them. Disregarding warnings to cease such behavior from authorized CCP personnel is considered to be in violation of section 6 of the EVE Online Terms of Service. Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areas may be subject to further restrictions as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team. Your own quote (and mine) clearly shows otherwise. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4611
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Posted - 2013.09.11 15:49:00 -
[34] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:Its sad what EVE is slowly becoming. By codling these new players we are actually hurting them in the long run. What will happen eventually is that one day a new player older than 30 days is going to be ganked or scammed in a nice expensive ship which will result in rage/quit. By losing cheap ships and being scammed with a small wallet it atleast prepares them for the future and possibly educates them on how to avoid such treachery. I know what you are saying, and might agree completely if there was a mode players could easily enter where they could experiment with game mechanics on their own for a while... but there isn't. In EVE they are thrown in the shark tank from day one. Even in a simpler game it can take a while to figure out the basics if they are something other than a run of the mill FPS or flight sim.
There is absolutely no harm in allowing them time to get their bearings for a month. Once they figure out what is going on they are much more likely to stay, and then they are fair game and have at least some sort of chance to make half way intelligent decisions under duress.
Frankly, the pro's of having better player retention far out weigh the giggles one gets from nailing someone less than a month in who barely understands how to get from one celestial object to another. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4487
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Posted - 2013.09.11 15:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:Vobard wrote:Tikitina wrote:Vobard wrote:Well let's be serious for a moment and take a look at all those high isk suicide ganks done to players 30 days old or less. If a rookie can lead you to warnings and or bans anywhere in space then those lol kills around Jita could technically get you guys in trouble should CCP decide to take action. Since when is Jita a Rookie System? Grinder2210 wrote: CCP Has made some changes to the Rookie Systems Rule...
You probably missed the part in the change where this is not confined to rookie systems anymore. No, it specifically says in the rookie systems still. It's insane that the factory lines in them are constantly filled just so people can try to sell rookies the civilian afterburners. That surely can't be allowed. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Grinder2210
Corporation 310526
22
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Posted - 2013.09.11 16:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote::D hey grinder! :'D seems your party camping epic arc mission objectives is over
No worrys on that Harry my long Combat History will show that i am more than able to get kills elsewere
That Said I just like Arnon the most |
Spurty
962
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Posted - 2013.09.11 16:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
Yah just gtfo of there --- GòöGòùGòöGòÉGòªGòù GòæGòÜGòúGòæGòæGòÜGòù GòÜGòÉGò¬GòÉGò¬GòÉGò¥
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Grinder2210
Corporation 310526
22
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Posted - 2013.09.11 18:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Grinder2210 wrote:You Decide CCP Has made some changes to the Rookie Systems Rule https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_SystemsIm all for helping and teaching new players the game, but the wording clearly sets ground work makeing shooting any new player in any system a offance Old Wording : Warning: Attempting to trick new players in to situations where you can fire on them freely, such as can flipping them, in these systems is prohibited. New Wording : Warning: Attempting to abuse a new playerGÇÖs lack of knowledge of the game and its mechanic for your personal gain or simply for their harm is prohibited in these solar systems. This includes, but is not limited to; tricking new players into situations where you or others may open fire on them freely or scamming ISK or assets from them. Disregarding warnings to cease such behavior from authorized CCP personnel is considered to be in violation of section 6 of the EVE Online Terms of Service. Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areas may be subject to further restrictions as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team.
ReStart
This post isnt about rookie systems this post is about everysystem
Whan you read this dont think about the systems listed as rookie system think about eveonline as a hole becasue That what the GM posting this is saying
"Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areas may be subject to further restrictions[/u] as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team"
This rule Can be applyed anywere the GM sees fit From Jita to the deepst cornor of Null Sec
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Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
409
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Posted - 2013.09.11 19:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Grinder2210 wrote:
in these solar systems.
One system out is still ok...
The rookie systems are just like the gated and caged cattle chutes in prison. You can't mess with them there but once inside? Buttsex for everyone!
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Khen'do Khen
10
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Posted - 2013.09.11 19:28:00 -
[40] - Quote
embrel wrote:how long is a player considered a rookie?
And what's the difference between a rookie and week-old alt?
Quote:Pilots found to pursue activities against new players in other areas may be subject to further restrictions as deemed necessary by CCP Games Customer Support Team.
If my enemy trains a new hauler alt and I find it and gank it, does it fall under this umbrella? When my enemy is using this rookie hauler alt to transport items to use against me, does this fall under "pursue activities against new players in other areas"? New account, not affiliated with the vet's account. Wouldn't that look like a "rookie"?
Too vague. Too weak. It was fine having it in the few rookie systems, but suddenly it can expand to other areas. So basically, if a rookie goes looking for a fight 2 weeks in, gets whipped, and decides to cry about it... |
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Romeo Deluxe
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2013.09.11 20:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
eh? this is their game, we might be paying customers but they will control it however they feel they need to, including kicking out said paying customers
enjoy |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
825
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Posted - 2013.09.11 20:02:00 -
[42] - Quote
New meta: Use of "newb" alts to get someone perma banned.
Yeah, I can see this working out great...
Whomever is writing these new rules must not be all that familiar with EVE players. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Vrenth
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
41
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Posted - 2013.09.11 20:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
Why pick on new players when you can recruit them to do your bidding? |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
760
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Posted - 2013.09.11 21:06:00 -
[44] - Quote
You can learn a bunch about what some players consider fun by reading the forums. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Amarant'h
Fistful of Finns Game Over.
9
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Posted - 2013.09.11 21:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lets see when "rookie" blobs start roam around killing people.. |
Zylithi
Systematic Corporate Disassembly.
9
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Posted - 2013.09.11 21:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
Despite the naysayers I'm all in support of this. EVE already has issues retaining new players.
And besides, Noob pew isn't fun pew. Get a real challenge! |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
91
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Posted - 2013.09.11 21:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
For all the whiners crapping about this, take a look at the dialog CCP asks you if you quit the game. They want to know why? Why are you quitting after 1 week, 2 weeks. "Because I heard this was a great communitly but all I meet are assholes shooting me in my one crummy ship I'm grinding for days on end. This isn't fun, I'll play something else". Then all the fu*ktards say "Go back to WOW, bla bla bla". Fewls... Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo... |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
826
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Posted - 2013.09.11 23:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Zylithi wrote:Despite the naysayers I'm all in support of this. EVE already has issues retaining new players.
And besides, Noob pew isn't fun pew. Get a real challenge!
There are a number of reasons why EVE has a high turnaround rate for newbies. Interestingly, a case could be made that none of it is related to "picking on" them.
Because all MMOs pick on newbies. Even in WoW, they have to post max level guards in the newbie areas to keep people from harvesting them. WHO (for as long as it lasted anyway), would turn you into a small helpless animal (I think it was a rabbit, idk it's been years) for ganking a lowbie.
The difference is that EVE has other factors as well. The economy, the skill system (which they are taking steps to fix), the ship/module system, all of it is markedly different from anything they would have been exposed to. Combine that with an unforgiving universe and actual loss, and you have a game that by it's very nature is harsh.
It takes a determined(or just plain stubborn) type of person to get past all that.
And the fact of the matter is that most people aren't cut out for it. EVE is not for everyone.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Baggo Hammers
95
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Posted - 2013.09.11 23:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
It is unfortunate that CCP has to force people not behave like slow-witted asshats. If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. |
Baggo Hammers
95
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Posted - 2013.09.11 23:51:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:New meta: Use of "newb" alts to get someone perma banned. Yeah, I can see this working out great... Whomever is writing these new rules must not be all that familiar with EVE players.
I don't know about you, but I have been playing for years without stalking new players. So speak for yourself. If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. |
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
826
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Posted - 2013.09.12 00:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
Baggo Hammers wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:New meta: Use of "newb" alts to get someone perma banned. Yeah, I can see this working out great... Whomever is writing these new rules must not be all that familiar with EVE players. I don't know about you, but I have been playing for years without stalking new players. So speak for yourself.
You miss the point entirely.
I meant that people will abuse this to get others banned. So, someone like me could get some plex, whip up a few newbie accounts, and ram them into someone in low/null etc, and whoosh, banned for picking on newbs.
When I say "not familiar with EVE players" what I meant was that people are going to abuse this, and use it like a weapon.
Like when CCP started cracking down on links to "erotic materials" in fleets during the Fountain War. The various spies were selectively using it to get important fleet members banned, to beat them without fighting them.
So, basically, adding more rules just gives people more things to cheat with. So quit adding more rules. It doesn't help newbies, it won't make improve their turnaround numbers, all it will do is create more things for people to grief with.
You want to know how to help newbies? Education. The feeling of not knowing what you're doing is the real thing holding newbies back. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
165
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Posted - 2013.09.12 00:32:00 -
[52] - Quote
The day you can't shoot a rookie in lowsec is when Eve's HIV blossoms into full-blown AIDS. |
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
988
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Posted - 2013.09.12 01:28:00 -
[53] - Quote
If im understanding the changes correctly its actually a good change in my opinion.
I know it seems a bit..odd that people can get punished for abusing/scamming new players outside of rookie systems, but (and this is my guess) i think they are trying to get to people who abuse the rules that a new player is a valid target outside of the rookie system.
As an example. Most rookie systems will be mined out or dont have any factory slots. Both of these means the new player will have difficulty finishing certain missions while working for the career agents. I could abuse this and place my self on the gate going into said rookie system, make my self flagged, scam them, gank them or whatever i wanted too and no one could say a thing. And i could do this every single day if i wanted to.
Having spent a lot of time in rookie systems lately i have heard about one that caught my attention. The player would do as listed above, sit in the next door system flagged right on the gate, but he would also have alts that would constantly fire at him. Low damage, so the alts couldent actually hurt him, but new players would jump in, see this person sitting flagged with others fighting him and try to shoot him as well and next thing they knew they got blown up.
Of course there was nothing that could be done about this, beyond older players sending regular warnings in local to not agess the person in question if they jumped trough the gate.
With the new rules a person that is sitting right outside the rookie system could actually be punished, or at least get a warning so they would back off, which is why i think its a good change.
However, the change should only affect people who purposely hang out to go after the new players. Someone who just happens to be flagged passing by the rookie systems and get agressed by a new player and blows them up should not be punished of course. Its the people who will purposely do it day after day that should be counted as "breaking the rules", not the ones that really just happened to be agressed by a new player without aiming for that to happen once in a while.
PS. Thank you for the clarification on what is and is not allowed in rookie systems. Still leaves some questions but its still much clearer then it was before Phoibe Enterprises official recruitment thread The Eve Reader - -áAudio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
826
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Posted - 2013.09.12 01:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
Quote:Someone who just happens to be flagged passing by the rookie systems and get agressed by a new player and blows them up should not be punished of course. Its the people who will purposely do it day after day that should be counted as "breaking the rules", not the ones that really just happened to be agressed by a new player without aiming for that to happen once in a while.
Maybe so.
But unfortunately, that is not what it says. Nor is that what will really happen.
You know, after the whole "no impersonations" nonsense, I have gotten no less than 4 people (in that short a time, no kidding) trying to conjure an excuse to petition my trading alt using that bullshit new rule?
God, I don't even want to think about what is in my ninja salvager's email box right now. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
988
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Posted - 2013.09.12 01:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:Someone who just happens to be flagged passing by the rookie systems and get agressed by a new player and blows them up should not be punished of course. Its the people who will purposely do it day after day that should be counted as "breaking the rules", not the ones that really just happened to be agressed by a new player without aiming for that to happen once in a while. Maybe so. But unfortunately, that is not what it says. Nor is that what will really happen. You know, after the whole "no impersonations" nonsense, I have gotten no less than 4 people (in that short a time, no kidding) trying to conjure an excuse to petition my trading alt using that bullshit new rule? God, I don't even want to think about what is in my ninja salvager's email box right now.
Its very vague i will admit, but im guessing that is on purpose so that it can be changed when/if needed and with things like this its... hard to consider all options and ways people can find to try and get around it. Again i can just guess here. Thats why im hoping that they will not punish people who dont purposely go after new players, but instead will check into people who get reported for griefing outside of rookie systems and see if its a recurring thing (like they will go to different rookie areas a few times a week and stay there for a few hours flagging them self).
If they will hit down on say...the person who blew up a 10 day old player in Jita as an example, or the scammers who spammed Amarr local with the ISK doubling scam and just happened to scam a young player..That would be going to far since EVE is supposed to be harsh, and even if i agree that new players should be protected to some extent, they should not be hand held and protected from anything that could harm them, just from those trying to abuse their lack of knowledge.
For the people trying to find some way of getting you in trouble using the "new" rules around impersonation. Well honestly its quite silly and hopefully its something that will pass when people get "bored" of it and forget that they are "supposed" to be angry about it Phoibe Enterprises official recruitment thread The Eve Reader - -áAudio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
826
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Posted - 2013.09.12 02:05:00 -
[56] - Quote
Quote:If they will hit down on say...the person who blew up a 10 day old player in Jita as an example, or the scammers who spammed Amarr local with the ISK doubling scam and just happened to scam a young player..That would be going to far since EVE is supposed to be harsh, and even if i agree that new players should be protected to some extent, they should not be hand held and protected from anything that could harm them, just from those trying to abuse their lack of knowledge.
Here's the thing most people fail to take into account.
To all of the Isk doublers, scammers, gankers, etc, what is the difference between a new character and an alt? How are they supposed to tell the difference?
This new rule is de facto immunity for characters less than 30 days old, because you can't tell who is behind the screen.
And they shouldn't have to.
Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
988
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Posted - 2013.09.12 02:11:00 -
[57] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:If they will hit down on say...the person who blew up a 10 day old player in Jita as an example, or the scammers who spammed Amarr local with the ISK doubling scam and just happened to scam a young player..That would be going to far since EVE is supposed to be harsh, and even if i agree that new players should be protected to some extent, they should not be hand held and protected from anything that could harm them, just from those trying to abuse their lack of knowledge.
Here's the thing most people fail to take into account. To all of the Isk doublers, scammers, gankers, etc, what is the difference between a new character and an alt? How are they supposed to tell the difference? This new rule is de facto immunity for characters less than 30 days old, because you can't tell who is behind the screen. And they shouldn't have to.
And thats something only CCP will know. But if your sitting in a rookie system, or next door to a rookie system, chances are high that it is actually a new player, and i would imagine that a person who purposely go to these less crowded systems instead of somewhere like Jita are fully aware of this. While if they are doing it in Jita, and direct the scam towards everyone instead of something like... "Special offer for characters under 30 days only! Send me 10 mill and you will get X amount in return!" there is nothing that indicates that they are looking to grief new players.
Phoibe Enterprises official recruitment thread The Eve Reader - -áAudio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
826
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Posted - 2013.09.12 02:24:00 -
[58] - Quote
Quote:But if your sitting in a rookie system, or next door to a rookie system, chances are high that it is actually a new player, and i would imagine that a person who purposely go to these less crowded systems instead of somewhere like Jita are fully aware of this.
Funny thing is, that's already actionable. That's what I'm talking about, this new rule doesn't add any protection to new players, all it does is create a lot of confusion for activities that have long since been given the thumbs up.
Suppose I gank haulers near the Dodixie entrance gates, ok? Well, one day I accidentally gank a newbro, and the inveterate jackasses (space lawyers one and all) in the newbie corps tell him to petition it, and he does.
So I get a warning. No harm done, right?
Wrong.
Because after that point, I am already on notice about being a newb griefer. So unless I want to risk a less temporary punishment, I can never attack someone less than a month old, ever again, for fear of getting one on accident and getting banned. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Shederov Blood
Wrecketeers
464
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Posted - 2013.09.12 02:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
It's about time they updated the wording of that rule. It used to apply specifically to can-baiting which is no longer a thing since the safety button was added. Now they sit there in a far superior ship with a suspect timer targeting the new players as they undock, or spam them with duel requests. |
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
988
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Posted - 2013.09.12 02:42:00 -
[60] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:But if your sitting in a rookie system, or next door to a rookie system, chances are high that it is actually a new player, and i would imagine that a person who purposely go to these less crowded systems instead of somewhere like Jita are fully aware of this. Funny thing is, that's already actionable. That's what I'm talking about, this new rule doesn't add any protection to new players, all it does is create a lot of confusion for activities that have long since been given the thumbs up. Suppose I gank haulers near the Dodixie entrance gates, ok? Well, one day I accidentally gank a newbro, and the inveterate jackasses (space lawyers one and all) in the newbie corps tell him to petition it, and he does. So I get a warning. No harm done, right? Wrong. Because after that point, I am already on notice about being a newb griefer. So unless I want to risk a less temporary punishment, I can never attack someone less than a month old, ever again, for fear of getting one on accident and getting banned.
Hmm ok i do see your point here and i will admit i can see how this (if they really look at it that black and white, you shoot at someone, thats its your done, dosent matter if nothing indicates that you were going there to purposely hunt new players) can severely damage older players and make certain activities a lot more difficult as well as being abused by people creating alts (as you mentioned earlier, no way for you to know if someone is an alt, but if you have already been warned you wont risk shooting at that 2 day old player sitting at the gate in low sec even if you think its a scout).
But, and i might be to optimistic here, i dont think CCP is looking to make new players "off limits" for griefing and similar. If that was the case..Well people who started to play EVE because they had read up on it and they enjoyed the idea of everyone being allowed to go after you, the level of paranoia and the fact that they take a risk every time they undock would quit because the first 30 days would not accurately show them what EVE is like and they would (most likely) leave (or complain about false advertisement on the forums, then leave because people tell them they are wrong ). While does who do not read up on the game will spend those 30 days buying PLEx's, get fancy ships they cant really afford and should not even think about undocking and then find them self getting blown up or scammed on day 31 and be pissed because the loss is simply to big for them to recover from, and nothing had prepared them for the fact that it could happen.
Its a..difficult situation and i dont envy those who have to try and find a balance between the two that can work as intended without ruining the core idea of EVE (dark, hash, violent, your best friend is going to stab you in the back).
Will be very interesting to see how this turns out, but im staying hopeful that they have some way to make it work
Phoibe Enterprises official recruitment thread The Eve Reader - -áAudio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
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