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Psychoactive Stimulant
TinklePee
29
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Posted - 2013.09.14 12:54:00 -
[61] - Quote
Who would want all the whiners?
Eve aims at the elite. Screw the middle and the peasants. Don't set your sights so low as to be bigger than WoW.
How's about instead of brainstorming how to be bigger than, we can brainstorm how to gank them? |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
376
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Posted - 2013.09.14 13:15:00 -
[62] - Quote
I would also add that it seems to me that CCP don't want eve to be bigger than anything out there whether that's WOW or LOL etc. If they did you might see one of their excellent promo trailers turned into a TV advert. They've got the budget, they've got the artwork and the fancy graphics etc, but they don't do this.
I think CCP are happy with eve as is, and are looking at other streams of income hence the development of other games, there's nothing wrong with this and I support it as long as the core game (i.e the one that's paying all of the bills) isn't short changed in the meantime. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
49
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Posted - 2013.09.14 18:07:00 -
[63] - Quote
1. This game is horribly managed and unless every last Dev and Manager gets the boot even dreaming of WOW like numbers is out of the question.
2. The CSM is a mistake that would have to be trashed to reduce the impact huge alliances have on CCP decision making.
3. Removal of SOV mechanics so that it would become much harder for alliances to hold space.
4. High sec would have to be changed to the point that anyone remotely interested in pvp would have to go to null.
5. High sec space would have to be expanded by a huge amount.
6. depth of pve game play would have to be expanded by a factor so huge that CCP couldnt afford on their current income stream even if EVE existed for another 100 years.
7. I calculated that at EVEs current rate of growth to reach WOWs numbers it would take 300 or so years. I'm no seer but im pretty sure that EVE will be long forgotten by then, as will it's entire player base.
8. the PC model of online game is coming to an end the numbers are shifting to smart devices and consoles.
9. the pay-to-play model of gaming may itself be coming to an end and this would all but kill CCPs already critically low income stream.
SUMMARY: it's not going to happen. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
376
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Posted - 2013.09.14 22:06:00 -
[64] - Quote
Pay to play has proven itself to be more sustainable than free play games which come and go, failure is usually due to lack of systainable income. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Altered Ego
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2013.09.17 01:06:00 -
[65] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
9. the pay-to-play model of gaming may itself be coming to an end and this would all but kill CCPs already critically low income stream.
I think pay to pay is certainly a better model. However, what do you think the feasibility of a 'Free-to-play/pay-to-fly' idea .. where the free players are stuck in their boots, while someone who shells out for a plex gets a pod.
Wow is free to play for the first few .... 20 levels (?) .... right, can someone verify that? |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
648
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Posted - 2013.09.17 06:05:00 -
[66] - Quote
I porpoise a genetic engineering project to ensure that-- within a generation-- spreadsheet-loving sociopaths, egomaniacs, and bitter IT workers outnumber normal people by a significant margin. Mission accomplished. |
Janna Windforce
EVE University Ivy League
18
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Posted - 2013.09.17 06:53:00 -
[67] - Quote
Just wait? WoW is bleeding subscribers rapidly (54% profit loss compared to last year) and Blizz thinks about pay2win ("not only cosmetic microtransactions"). |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
52
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Posted - 2013.09.18 03:19:00 -
[68] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
9. the pay-to-play model of gaming may itself be coming to an end and this would all but kill CCPs already critically low income stream.
Altered Ego wrote:
I think pay to pay is certainly a better model. However, what do you think the feasibility of a 'Free-to-play/pay-to-fly' idea .. where the free players are stuck in their boots, while someone who shells out for a plex gets a pod.
Read this a couple times and i cannot understand what you are trying to say, sorry.
Altered Ego wrote:
Wow is free to play for the first few .... 20 levels (?) .... right, can someone verify that?
Yes. |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
52
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Posted - 2013.09.18 03:30:00 -
[69] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:I porpoise a genetic engineering project to ensure that-- within a generation-- spreadsheet-loving sociopaths, egomaniacs, and bitter IT workers outnumber normal people by a significant margin. Mission accomplished.
I truly did laugh at this!!
+1 |
Choc talar
Aerodyne Collective. Aerodyne Collective
15
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Posted - 2013.09.18 04:32:00 -
[70] - Quote
Like many have already stated, Eve does not strive or desire to be as big or bigger than WOW. Its a niche game and niche games cater to a crowd looking for something different. Take FPS games for instance. Call of Duty and Battlefield constantly duke it out attempting to be the bigger better FPS. They are both different games in many ways, and both similar in many ways, and both have loyal followers. Than you have ARMA 2, and now ARMA 3. ARMA does not have nearly the player base that either COD of BF have, but for those of us who love the game it is a far better military game than either of the other 2 are. 64 player battles on maps that are in all actuality just as much a theme park as WOW is versus a military simulation style game that acts more like a sandbox. A military game where the playable map covers 250 square km of completely playable terrain and then some. I have been in some custom ARMA servers for player vs player operations with as many as 300 people. While not as significant as a large scale Eve fleet battle, it is quite significant for a FPS when you add in infantry, airborne drops, attack choppers, transport choppers, tanks, bradley's, A10's, actual artillery (called in and fired by players giving actual grid coordinates) etc.
I don't want Eve to be anything like WOW, and I actually still play WOW occasionally with my kids because they enjoy it and like to play it with dad. WOW is WOW and Eve is Eve, and as an adult gamer I much prefer the unforgiving nature of Eve. On a side note, my oldest is now 17 and started an Eve online account 3 months ago and "LOVES" Eve. He has watched me play Eve over the years and decided he wanted in on it, and there is absolutely no looking back. Like me he still plays WOW with his brothers, but I routinely find him on his lap top on a school night at like 2 in the morning playing Eve instead of sleeping. He has caught the Eve bug, has joined my corp etc, and has even made a couple of kills in low sec PvP all on his own with no back up.
If a modern era gamer like my 17 year old can find his way to a real game like Eve, adapt to it, learn to love it, and thrive in it, than why should we as a community or CCP as a company strive to reach WOW like proportions. There will always be those who want a WOW like theme-park ride and they can have it, but there will always be those of us looking for something different; even in our younger generation. |
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Choc talar
Aerodyne Collective. Aerodyne Collective
15
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Posted - 2013.09.18 04:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
Psychoactive Stimulant wrote:Who would want all the whiners?
How's about instead of brainstorming how to be bigger than, we can brainstorm how to gank them?
+1 |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
142
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Posted - 2013.09.18 07:36:00 -
[72] - Quote
Next question is would we need several Eve Servers if we would reach WoW Numbers? |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
158
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Posted - 2013.09.18 07:55:00 -
[73] - Quote
supernova ranger wrote:Including the player base from dust + Eve + possible Valkyrie
Assume that it is possible when answering.
How does one do this? What would eve need? What should eve not do to achieve this?
I have thoughts but ill leave then till later if this thread gets any traction... For the moment I'm just curious as to what people think about it atm.
Unfortunately how the game is played and how hard the game actualy is, it is never possible for CCP to become bigger than WoW unless they change the game dramaticly. This game so much different than other MMOS that it strugles to get more players into it. After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
105
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Posted - 2013.09.18 08:01:00 -
[74] - Quote
The brutality and complexity of EVE seems to attract a certain breed of gamers - one quite different from your usual WoWer. You don't stay here and log in because if you do, the game will give you candy for just doing that.
(Also certain breed of human, you have about 80% chance to encounter someone in the following field: ex/current army /IT/science)
You log in because someone else has said candy and you want to take it from him.
The fact that it's not like WoW, or, perhaps, any other game, makes it so special. So many games nowadays reward you for simply playing them and integrate a "carrot on a stick" mechanic into a game just to keep people playing. In the case of EVE you aren't entitled to success for just pushing the "log in" button.
In a sandbox you find your own carrot, nested a top of a mountain and guarded by terrifying challenges. You will be given tools to claim said carrot, but no strict 'questline' for it - how you accomplish your task is completely up to you.
Now, in a multiplayer sandbox like EVE this comes with a twist: you can find someone gullible enough to toss him into a trap while you walk by and about halfway through you'll find out that there's a group of other players that call themselves the Killer Rabbits and will guard the carrot with their lives. Oh, and there's just one carrot for twenty people like you.
(Of course, that just means that a lot of dead rabbits and nineteen knives in the backs later this carrot will taste ******* delicious) Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet? |
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
142
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 08:20:00 -
[75] - Quote
Vexed Nova wrote:Lephia DeGrande wrote:BTW. Does any other MMO exist with time based Skill System? I don't know if it still exists, but there was one called Perpetuum. I think it used a similar engine to EVE
Thank you for sharing. Its still running and i have to say its pretty damn good. |
Horus V
The Destined Drunken Hyena Association
46
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Posted - 2013.09.18 12:23:00 -
[76] - Quote
1. Walking in stations 2. Walking inside ships 3. Walking on planet's surface 4. Walking on moon's surface 5. Walking on asteroids surface 6. Spacewalk 7. PI with ability to build own cities and holding actual districts on the map. 8. Ships crew 9. No more side projects just focus on eve online pc game. 10. Ability to build own private pos anywhere you like in space as long as its not in LS/HS 11. Profit.... V |
Daichi Yamato
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
778
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Posted - 2013.09.18 14:22:00 -
[77] - Quote
internet space bullying is better, but not for everyone. And ppl dnt know what they really want because they are stupid.
sorry CCP, i'd rather u be mean and poor than benevolent and rich There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Hopelesshobo
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
102
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Posted - 2013.09.18 15:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
This game will never be as big as WOW was because when Vanilla WOW came out, there was nothing else like it on the market, so they were a monopoly. The only reason why people would always go around claiming that WOW is dying, is because now they actually have some decent competition, so of course some people will be drawn to other games when faced with another choice of games to play. Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012. |
bloodknight2
Talledega Knights PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
271
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Posted - 2013.09.18 15:08:00 -
[79] - Quote
More players = larger fight = more lag = more threads about lag = more players whining
No please. |
supernova ranger
The End of Eternity Ad-Astra
67
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Posted - 2013.09.18 15:30:00 -
[80] - Quote
If ccp doesn't want more players, why was dust created? I can only see it as an assault on call of duty's market and other games of that genre.
Hmm... getting more players in the game is a bad thing cause we may pick up more whinners and experience more lag? Worst excuses ever, so what if those come? Blow em up and perform some "cognitive re-calibration"
I could never see more players in game as a bad thing... Sure they may change the game being that they are new players with new ideas but we have no more reason to deny their attempts then what we attempt to do ourselves.
This almost seems like xenophobism but instead of a country it's other gaming cultures. |
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Quintessen
Messengers of Judah Socius Inter Nos
183
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Posted - 2013.09.18 18:13:00 -
[81] - Quote
EVE has several problems with scaling. One is their PvE content will almost always be lackluster because they simply don't have the staff to produce new environments. That's why the majority of EVE starts out as procedurally generated content. Blizzard has a huge staff many times that of CCP and they can use that to produce huge areas of new content.
EVE's second major problem with scaling is the fact that while they've sharded us into constellations and regions people would still flock to places like Jita and the lag produced would force people to move to new trade hubs, but it's unlikely they would be particularly happy about it.
EVE's third major problem: EVE's existing players often feel they are superior to "casuals" and therefore abuse people in order to "harden" them. This one isn't really overcome-able since those are the players you have. It would take a major anti-harassment policy change and a lot of core players would leave. Just look at the ruckus caused by the change/clarification of the EULA that prevents people from impersonating others.
EVE's fourth major problem is that it's horribly mismanaged. They do certain things very well, but they've shown consistently that they don't know what about their game is actually successful and they don't know when they are overreaching. They've gotten better recently, but they still have a lot of stuff to figure out.
EVE's last major problem with achieving large numbers of players and the one that is most easily overcome is that their UI stinks. EVE's UI was bad back when it started and while it's improved lately, it's still been really bad for years. It's not even that it's hard... it's just bad. I know people who can't even figure out how to properly configure access to POSes and stations. If you know what you want to do and UI prevents you from doing it because it's bizarrely constructed, then that's a problem -- not gameplay.
EVE will grow and can certainly grow faster. I think I've been more impressed by what I've seen in the last year than the several years before that. I have hope that the game will continue to improve. Certainly I spend more effort on it than any other game and I love it's depth.
p.s. For what it's worth there are many people talking about WoW here who are talking out their asses. WoW has a lot of casual stuff and some serious hardcore content that only a very few number of players are ever able to finish. WoW has managed to create content for all of them and while they have many, many problems that I don't wish to see inflicted on EVE the idea that every WoW player is a whiny casual is just flat out wrong.
As for "casuals" in EVE I would point out the numerous ship replacement programs out there. If people really wanted EVE to be the harsh cruel game world they keep saying it is, then those programs should go as they represent the exact same thing -- zero effective loses except instead of Blizzard providing that benefit it's an entity like GOONS. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
451
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 18:39:00 -
[82] - Quote
There are a few simple solutions that would make Eve as, if not more, popular that WoW.
1) Consensual PvP everywhere but null - This won't happen
2) Grinding allows you to train skills faster - This won't happen
3) Ability to change you specializations at anytime for a small cost of in-game currency - This won't happen
4) Dieing in a ship doesn't destroy your ship or pod - Instead you respawn where your clone is, with your ship, implants, and skills - This won't happen
5) Introduce pets that players will eventually be able to battle against each other while WiS - This might happen.
Basically, Eve will never be as big as WoW, unless WoW dies. In which case, Eve will eventually be bigger than WoW, but will never be as big as WoW was. |
Kesthely
Fleet of the Damned Ace of Spades.
54
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Posted - 2013.09.18 21:03:00 -
[83] - Quote
How to make Eve bigger then WoW:
I haven't read all comments so its probably been said already, but just wait a year or 2, eve numbers are steady or Climbing, wow numbers have been dropping the last few years, eventually the'll drop below us...
Eve is build to last, wow is just a resiliant one day fly |
Fia Magrath
The Clown Inquisition
6
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 00:07:00 -
[84] - Quote
Add more quests. Add SP cap attainable in 2 weeks. Add elves and orcs. Remove space ships.. and space in general. Replace with cartoony fantasy world. Add magic and axes. Rename eve to something like "WHUPEE"
Profit. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
451
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Posted - 2013.09.19 00:10:00 -
[85] - Quote
Allow men playing female characters to grid male characters played by other men. |
Altered Ego
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
18
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Posted - 2013.09.19 02:02:00 -
[86] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Altered Ego wrote:I think pay to pay is certainly a better model. However, what do you think the feasibility of a 'Free-to-play/pay-to-fly' idea .. where the free players are stuck in their boots, while someone who shells out for a plex gets a pod. Read this a couple times and i cannot understand what you are trying to say, sorry.
No worries ... I was wondering out loud what eve would be like if it was free to play, but only people who by a plex would be able to fly a space ship/use their pod skills.
There would have to be a huge amount of non-space content created;
Horus V wrote:1. Walking in stations 2. Walking inside ships 3. Walking on planet's surface 4. Walking on moon's surface 5. Walking on asteroids surface 6. Spacewalk 7. PI with ability to build own cities and holding actual districts on the map. 8. Ships crew 9. No more side projects just focus on eve online pc game. 10. Ability to build own private pos anywhere you like in space as long as its not in LS/HS 11. Profit.... A free player should NOT have access to the market, because it's too easy to make a ton of money just making trades. Maybe they could have access to a local Noble exchange (so we can get some payback from that under used code).
PLUS ... us pod pilots would have a whole new pool of players to grief and exploit!
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
382
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Posted - 2013.09.21 08:36:00 -
[87] - Quote
Free to play would work if you had permanent and persistent death for non subscribers or those without a plex. You could deny them access to the market, but a better solution would be in drastically increase market charges and taxes for non immortal pod pilots and encourage them to become immortal by buying a plex or subscribing. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
ctx2007
Wychwood and Wells Beer needs you
305
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Posted - 2013.09.21 09:58:00 -
[88] - Quote
EVE is bigger than WOW.
We have the Eve Galaxy not some silly fooking realm You only-árealise you life has been a waste of time, when you wake up dead. |
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