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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
913
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
SilentSkills wrote:I thought CCP has been actively seeking a viable ISK sink.
I don't see how rising PLEX prices are a bad solution to their problem.
The number of people who completely fail to understand how PLEX work never fails to surprise and appall me. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
247
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:34:00 -
[62] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:SilentSkills wrote:I thought CCP has been actively seeking a viable ISK sink.
I don't see how rising PLEX prices are a bad solution to their problem. The number of people who completely fail to understand how PLEX work never fails to surprise and appall me.
Iam waiting for someone to say that CCP are seeding plexs on the market in order to generate a isk sink, as well as manipulate the market to raise prices.
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
804
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:44:00 -
[63] - Quote
Amro One wrote:I am sure RMTer are smiling now. Why would an RMT'er be smiling?
Buying PLEX and selling for ISK is now MORE attractive. Not less. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo!
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Demon View
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:44:00 -
[64] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Iam waiting for someone to say that CCP are seeding plexs on the market in order to generate a isk sink, as well as manipulate the market to raise prices.
To be a sink, and to raise prices, they'd have to be seeding buy orders for PLEX, not sell orders as you seem to mean.
... and yeah, that'd work. No real downside for CCP, apart from the fury that would be directed their way if this were exposed.
That said, it'd be weird for them to act to reduce supply (by seeding buy orders) while at the same time acting to increase supply (by offering bulk deals for PLEX through their website.) EDIT: that is, it'd be weird if price manipulation were the goal. |
pmchem
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
Amro One wrote:I am sure RMTer are smiling now.
High PLEX prices hurt RMT. Isk sellers have to provide more Isk for the (unit of currency) in order to be competitive with the option of legitimately buying Isk via no-risk GTC/PLEX. |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
247
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:46:00 -
[66] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Amro One wrote:I am sure RMTer are smiling now. Why would an RMT'er be smiling? Buying PLEX and selling for ISK is now MORE attractive. Not less.
Thats what RMTing is.
People who do Illegal RMTing are the ones who aren't smiling. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
212
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
It's going to end up like the US housing market, the bubble is going to keep inflating, once all the people who played eve online by buying plexes can no longer afford to buy them. They are just going to simply quit. Just based on people i know, in game, that could roughly be 3% of the eve population that will disappear to high plex prices.
Once this happens and plexes stop being sold the prices will probably crash down to an all time low of back at 300 mill per plex.
Its that whole supply and demand thing, drive up the plex price far enough people will just quit, demand goes to 0. and all of these people who bought up plex thinking they are going to make billion lose all their money.
If you are going the whole invest in plex, i woudl suggest you start selling now. |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
249
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:54:00 -
[68] - Quote
Demon View wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:Iam waiting for someone to say that CCP are seeding plexs on the market in order to generate a isk sink, as well as manipulate the market to raise prices.
To be a sink, and to raise prices, they'd have to be seeding buy orders for PLEX, not sell orders as you seem to mean. ... and yeah, that'd work. No real downside for CCP, apart from the fury that would be directed their way if this were exposed. That said, it'd be weird for them to act to reduce supply (by seeding buy orders) while at the same time acting to increase supply (by offering bulk deals for PLEX through their website.) EDIT: that is, it'd be weird if price manipulation were the goal.
No. If CCP seeded buy orders then they would be creating a ISK faucet since people would be dumping plexs into CCP buy orders and getting Isk out of thin air, it could cause prices to go up however.
If CCP was seeding sell orders then they would be taking isk away from the game completely and be able to seed enough to raise the prices. HOWEVER this would be incredibly stupid because they would lose a **** tone of RL $$ since they are giving away subs.
My original statement however wasn't serious.
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1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
56
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:59:00 -
[69] - Quote
lol I don't understand what's the big deal about these rising PLEX prices. I mean it's rose what, 50-70m, maybe 100. If you can't find a way to make an extra 70m or so every month then you have a tight bugdet/income.
Now if the prices do rise to 550 I won't be too happy but 550m every month is nothing really
EDIT: After I posted this umm post, I went back and saw the guy 2 posts above me and read this "Its that whole supply and demand thing, drive up the plex price far enough people will just quit, demand goes to 0. and all of these people who bought up plex thinking they are going to make billion lose all their money.
If you are going the whole invest in plex, i woudl suggest you start selling now."
This guy can't be more right, people don't always realise when tons of people invest in something that's needed, the price will eventually rise high enough and nobody will buy it then the price will drop and most people will lose tons of money 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me! |
Orlacc
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
34
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:03:00 -
[70] - Quote
The tipping point will come when folks believe it is more efficient to pay RL cash to buy PLEX. More PLEX will enter the market, and the price will come down. |
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Demon View
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:05:00 -
[71] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Demon View wrote:[quote=Brooks Puuntai]No. If CCP seeded buy orders then they would be creating a ISK faucet Woops, that's true. I was distracted by the PLEX that's being 'destroyed' in that case - that's not getting turned into account time or AUR. So NPC buy orders would raise prices in two ways. [quote=Brooks Puuntai] since people would be dumping plexs into CCP buy orders and getting Isk out of thin air, it could cause prices to go up however. If CCP was seeding sell orders then they would be taking isk away from the game completely and be able to seed enough to raise the prices. HOWEVER this would be incredibly stupid because they would lose a **** tone of RL $$ since they are giving away subs. My original statement however wasn't serious. |
Echo Falls
Adherents of the Repeated Meme
1
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:06:00 -
[72] - Quote
Glad I bought 6 years worth when everyone was quitting then.
Boosh! |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
249
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:07:00 -
[73] - Quote
I kind of hope CCP does another massive unholy rage. That way plex prices will plummet and I can laugh at all the people who bought a **** ton of plexs hoping to cash in later. |
Tore Vest
Vikinghall
44
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:15:00 -
[74] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:I kind of hope CCP does another massive unholy rage. That way plex prices will plummet and I can laugh at all the people who bought a **** ton of plexs hoping to cash in later. So you think ppl buying plex on eve market to get ritch..... Well.... i guess some do... Im not |
Demon View
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:18:00 -
[75] - Quote
1-Up Mushroom wrote:EDIT: After I posted this umm post, I went back and saw the guy 2 posts above me and read this "Its that whole supply and demand thing, drive up the plex price far enough people will just quit, demand goes to 0. and all of these people who bought up plex thinking they are going to make billion lose all their money.
If you are going the whole invest in plex, i woudl suggest you start selling now."
This guy can't be more right, people don't always realise when tons of people invest in something that's needed, the price will eventually rise high enough and nobody will buy it then the price will drop and most people will lose tons of money
If you buy a ton of PLEX at 400mil, thinking to sell them a month later at 600mil, and find instead that a month later the prices are down to 300mil, then this was indeed a failed investment. However, this is Eve, not the real world; you're under no pressure whatsoever to sell these PLEX off at the 300mil price. You can just use the PLEXes yourself to play for 'free' for a long time, maybe on several accounts, and if prices ever rise again you can start to sell them off. Not the return you were expecting in the time frame that you were expecting, but not a cataclysm.
Also, don't invest what you can't afford to lose. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
478
|
Posted - 2011.10.31 22:41:00 -
[76] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Malcanis wrote:SilentSkills wrote:I thought CCP has been actively seeking a viable ISK sink.
I don't see how rising PLEX prices are a bad solution to their problem. The number of people who completely fail to understand how PLEX work never fails to surprise and appall me. Iam waiting for someone to say that CCP are seeding plexs on the market in order to generate a isk sink, as well as manipulate the market to raise prices.
I am happy to announce that your wait is over:
Read the last QEN
Quote: With a growing PLEX market (PLEX is the item with the highest trade value on the EVE market on any given day) and its function of facilitating the exchange of game time for ISK, players have become concerned about PLEX prices. PLEX is sold on an open market in a free exchange between players, just like most other items in EVE Online. Our core design principle of being hands-off from these markets also applies to the PLEX market. However, due to its complex function and potential impact on the velocity of money supply, the Central Bank might intervene in the PLEX market in order to curb inflation or avoid sudden deflation in the EVE economy. All such action would not be announced beforehand and only limited information would become public in the quarter after actions have been taken. These actions would aim at stabilization of the PLEX market and do not have a specific price target for PLEX or a specific inflation target for prices in EVE.
morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum KUGUTSUMEN.
249
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Posted - 2011.10.31 23:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:Malcanis wrote:SilentSkills wrote:I thought CCP has been actively seeking a viable ISK sink.
I don't see how rising PLEX prices are a bad solution to their problem. The number of people who completely fail to understand how PLEX work never fails to surprise and appall me. Iam waiting for someone to say that CCP are seeding plexs on the market in order to generate a isk sink, as well as manipulate the market to raise prices. I am happy to announce that your wait is over: Read the last QENQuote: With a growing PLEX market (PLEX is the item with the highest trade value on the EVE market on any given day) and its function of facilitating the exchange of game time for ISK, players have become concerned about PLEX prices. PLEX is sold on an open market in a free exchange between players, just like most other items in EVE Online. Our core design principle of being hands-off from these markets also applies to the PLEX market. However, due to its complex function and potential impact on the velocity of money supply, the Central Bank might intervene in the PLEX market in order to curb inflation or avoid sudden deflation in the EVE economy. All such action would not be announced beforehand and only limited information would become public in the quarter after actions have been taken. These actions would aim at stabilization of the PLEX market and do not have a specific price target for PLEX or a specific inflation target for prices in EVE.
Not really what I meant. That shows that CCP will intervene if prices become too high due to natural inflation or deflation. What I was joking about was someone putting on their tinfoil hat and saying CCP is causing the increase in price, by seeding the market.
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Large Collidable Object
morons.
480
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Posted - 2011.10.31 23:58:00 -
[78] - Quote
Brooks: Ok - got it - except that I think they would probably intervene if they deem prices too low for whatever reason just as well.
Some people wont buy plex to resell them on the market if the can make the same amount in 2 hours of ratting - after all there are lots of players without any significant rl income (low income country of origin/college students), so a plex may be a lot of RL money for them.
I don't think CCP market manipulations are responsible for the current increase in price, yet currently, they would profit from a rise in plex prices. Current plex supply is like a loan given to CCP by the players whilst eve was still decent 3 years ago. Due to years of neglect thanks to incarnage, people ae starting to pull out of the game due to general distrust to CCP policies.
Current plex supply is revenue CCP made years ago and invested into fail-projects like WIS, WoD & Mud 90210 - so my guess would be that eve's current revenue is much lower than unsub numbers would suggest. morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated New Eden Research.
36
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Posted - 2011.11.01 00:34:00 -
[79] - Quote
I occasionally buy a PLEX to pad my wallet, when I don't have time to grind. So, no offense to ya all, but the price of PLEXes can't be high enough, far as I'm concerned.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
482
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Posted - 2011.11.01 00:46:00 -
[80] - Quote
Ranka Mei wrote:I occasionally buy a PLEX to pad my wallet, when I don't have time to grind. So, no offense to ya all, but the price of PLEXes can't be high enough, far as I'm concerned.
You mean you buy a GTC, convert it into PLEX and sell it on the market - not 'buying a plex' - just saying... morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
33
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Posted - 2011.11.01 01:09:00 -
[81] - Quote
Or just buy a plex? You don't need to buy a GTC and convert it. You can get them straight from the account management site.
Buy a plex, redeem it into a in game item, sell it on the market. |
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
121
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Posted - 2011.11.01 01:53:00 -
[82] - Quote
If +100 m isk breaks the bank, you're doing it wrong. New Player "boost" https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=243993#post243993 Mining + War Decks = yummy! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=25608&find=unread |
non judgement
Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance
131
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Posted - 2011.11.01 04:05:00 -
[83] - Quote
I'm surprised that so many people seem to be that low on money, that the only way they can play eve, is if they manage to make enough isk in game to buy a plex. I hope they have enough spare cash to buy food as well.
How many of you guys are getting free internet from some store while sleeping in a gutter somewhere with your laptop? It's amazing how easy it is for bums to get computers these days.
I'm a bit surprised that more people aren't taking advantage of the high price of plex by buying a plex from CCP (or buying gtc and converting them to plex). It's getting close to the best time to do it. Don't think it'd stay this way for long. Even when they were up to 350m each before they went right back down to 250m, and less. This bubble will pop sooner or later. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
212
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Posted - 2011.11.01 04:56:00 -
[84] - Quote
Apollo Gabriel wrote:If +100 m isk breaks the bank, you're doing it wrong.
Its not that really as much as other expenses. Usually that extra 100 million is used to make other money.
Anyway I digress, what the big issue is it rose from 275 originally to nearly half a bill. Nothing is really regulating the price, which means, isk is becoming inflated. |
Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
122
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Posted - 2011.11.01 05:09:00 -
[85] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:Apollo Gabriel wrote:If +100 m isk breaks the bank, you're doing it wrong. Its not that really as much as other expenses. Usually that extra 100 million is used to make other money. Anyway I digress, what the big issue is it rose from 275 originally to nearly half a bill. Nothing is really regulating the price, which means, isk is becoming inflated.
I used to manipulate the market pretty heavily, so I understand the value of liquid isk, however if you have the isk to buy plex, 100m ain't much more. If you can BARELY afford plex, you shouldn't be buying it, as with most things in Eve.
The market isn't a static system. I personally think fewer people are buying PLEX to sell on the market, coupled with a number of disgruntled people deciding NOT to pay for eve (I don't say they're right, just going with their "logic"). New Player "boost" https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=243993#post243993 Mining + War Decks = yummy! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=25608&find=unread |
Prince Kobol
62
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Posted - 2011.11.01 07:55:00 -
[86] - Quote
For those saying that the rise in PLEX will hurt RMT's couldn't be more wrong.
If anything it helps them.
Many are under the assumption that the RMT's uses isk that is generated in game via bots to purchase PLEX, this is a false assumption.
RMT's use stolen credit card/ bank details to purchase Eve Time Codes which they then covert to PLEX to either sell or convert to isk on disposable accounts which have no traceability. (i.e an account which as been created using false details and made active with a PLEX using an false IP)
So with that they are now receiving more isk per PLEX not less.
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Sellendis
The Ares project
13
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Posted - 2011.11.01 08:40:00 -
[87] - Quote
non judgement wrote:I'm surprised that so many people seem to be that low on money, that the only way they can play eve, is if they manage to make enough isk in game to buy a plex. I hope they have enough spare cash to buy food as well.
How many of you guys are getting free internet from some store while sleeping in a gutter somewhere with your laptop? It's amazing how easy it is for bums to get computers these days.
I'm a bit surprised that more people aren't taking advantage of the high price of plex by buying a plex from CCP (or buying gtc and converting them to plex). It's getting close to the best time to do it. Don't think it'd stay this way for long. Even when they were up to 350m each before they went right back down to 250m, and less. This bubble will pop sooner or later.
They aren't low on money, they just whine couse they have nothing better to do. 375m for a plex? Ok, that's a 6-7h of missions per month, as in 30 days. Plex goes 450m? Wow, i just have to play 1-2 more hours in a month. Talking about average carebears, not marauder or something wiping missions and netting 150m+ per hour. And that's only from mission rewards and bounty, loot/salvage/LP isn't in the numbers. So if a hisec carebear cant play 1-2 hours more per month to earn 30 day plex, good riddance. I play maybe an hour a day, and frankly i dont give a rats ass about plex going 100m up, i am not rich by any means, but people rather whine on forums instead of grinding for an hour or two.
Can we expect a truckload of QQ threads since Titans/SCs got nerfed, and now their value goes down...eve economy is dying...bla,bla,bla.
Bottom line is, if you cant earn 100m more per month, you shouldn't be playing this game...GTFO. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
17
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Posted - 2011.11.01 10:08:00 -
[88] - Quote
There are two more (obvious) reasons OP missed:
less people invest real money into EVE making PLEX more rare / cost more and
those who paid in $$$ before - now they are trying to burn their ISK before possible CCP bankruptcy converting ISK into game time instead of hoarding. |
ZedMiner110224
Gem Concordance
0
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Posted - 2011.11.12 19:50:00 -
[89] - Quote
I suspect the primary reason PLEX have been climbing is the resession.
Fewer folks that can afford to buy ISK with IRL money, but demand is flat or climbing as fewer of us can AFFORD to pay IRL money to pay for Eve.
I suspect the AUR junk has had an effect as well, but I'd guess that effect is VERY small.
ISKinflation is also likely a small issue, though CCP seems to take steps to change that every so often.
60M/hr for missioning? Mabey if you're VERY high end skilled and have one massivly KILLER setup of some sort AND get lucky on drops. 20-30M / hour is a LOT more reasonable estimate - and that IS INCLUDING LP points (which have been getting noticeably cheaper vs. ISK over the last couple years), bounties, loot, etc.
As far as it "only being 100M more" - multiply that times numer of alt accounts. For many or most of us it's a LOT more than "100M more a month", which is part of the reason I've been selling off some of my alts.
Folks that are low enough on IRL cash to need to use PLEX to pay for Eve are likely collecting food assistance, though that undoubetly varies with the country they live in.
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Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
83
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Posted - 2011.11.12 20:01:00 -
[90] - Quote
Demon View wrote:SilentSkills wrote:I thought CCP has been actively seeking a viable ISK sink.
I don't see how rising PLEX prices are a bad solution to their problem. Apart from taxes paid, PLEX sales sink no ISK. ISK is just transfered from the buyer to the seller.
Its amazing how many people have no basic understanding of economics.
Plex are worthless and have no value beyond what people are prepared to pay. People pay with pre existing in game isk, it is not magically created but transferred. |
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