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Mole Guy
Xoth Inc
366
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Posted - 2013.09.16 16:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
why is it that the rapid light missile launcher uses light missiles? its a cruiser weapon? dont change it, i love the fact you can step down and throw people off.
however, why doesnt the dual light pulse use small crystals, the dual heavy pulse use medium crystals, and all the other "dual" smaller weapons still use the same size crystal and the ship they are on?
lets use the dual heavy pulse. to me, that means there are 2 heavy pulse lasers sitting side by side. they use a battleship as a platform, but they are still cruiser weapons. they should gain better than cruiser tracking, better than cruiser range and damage since they 1. have more power to move the turret and 2. they can over charge the turret with more power.
an abaddon with 8 dual heavy pulse, should get about 25% more range than a cruiser with heavy pulse, but track a whole lot better. they should have the cruiser weapon size (maybe battleship fittings though). they should gain bonuses as per ship like 5% damage per lev from abaddon. since there are 2 heavy pulse, they should have double the weapon damage of a single heavy pulse. we arent talking bs damage, but what we are talking about is something (like a caracal with RLML) that can shred the class size below within range. they should pull 2x a medium weapons cap draw to signify 2 heavy pulse.
same thing for dual autocannons and blasters. if i wanna gimp my ship against larger classes and run shotgun with some large ships as anti-cruiser or frig support, i should be able to drop my weapon size down and be competitive against them.
make all those "dual" weapons use the next size down ammo (maybe double ammo draw).
i dont care about dessies and bc. its not the same. those are small ships using small weapons or medium ships using medium weapons. im talking about bs using cruiser sized weapons (as the name implies just like whats being employe with the RLML) and gaining the bonuses as such.
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Mole Guy
Xoth Inc
366
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Posted - 2013.09.16 16:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
imagine this running incursions. you take a paly with 4 dual heavy pulse and shred those pesky frigs that close in and orbit. throw on a web and stop em and open up.
you would have to rub noses with them for anything too much out of cruiser range, but hey..worm holes and insurcions dont take prisoners.. they love to run up on ya... |
Kyeudo Van'mynai
Enlightened Academy
0
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Posted - 2013.09.16 16:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
So, you are asking that they mess with weapon balance, ship balance. and impact the market just because it would "make sense".
No. |
Mole Guy
Xoth Inc
366
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Posted - 2013.09.16 16:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
ships are mostly balanced around "large" style weapons, not the double lower tier weapons. it would have very little impact on what we have, what costs are involved, how they are sold or built or any of that stuff. it would simply make things even which is what balancing is about. get rid of the RLML or make it so turrets have the same ability.
one would actually do less damage with a dual heavy pulse geddon, it would just hit frigs or cruisers better. so, application bonus, not a damage bonus.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4640
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Posted - 2013.09.16 16:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes, a large amount of work would be involved.
However I have always liked this idea. There would have to be limitations of course, we don't want to eliminate the roles of smaller ships entirely, but it would go a long way towards actually giving the lesser weapons systems a reason to be mounted outside of simple fittings restrictions.
This is probably the sort of thing that gives the balancing team nightmares though. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
272
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Posted - 2013.09.16 17:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
I can support the idea as long as they don't gain damage. "The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! *pops more corn*" ---Evernub-- |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
509
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Posted - 2013.09.16 18:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kyeudo Van'mynai wrote:So, you are asking that they mess with weapon balance, ship balance. and impact the market just because it would "make sense".
No. Well, making those guns useful for at least something kinda "makes sense". |
Mole Guy
Xoth Inc
366
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Posted - 2013.09.16 19:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
the damage gained would simply be from there being 2 smaller weapons. i.e. a pulse does 100 dps, a dual pulse does 200. we might get close too or even barely surpass the damage of higher weapons, but range would be SEVERALY gimped. mega pulse go out to 24k, heavies can hit around 12k. so 1/2 the range, better tracking and good deeps.
if the ship is designed to over charge the weapons for damage (abaddon), then they would still be overcharged(but cruiser damage still). i havent looked at the numbers, but we could even go so far as to keep the damage they have now, cut the weapon size to a smaller one and increase tracking to that of a smaller weapon.
like the dual heavy pulse would have 15% better tracking than a single heavy pulse, or maybe 25% or so..the numbers are unimportant right now. reason being they are sitting on a platform designed to move mega pulse and now you are putting something with 1/2 the weight or so. the cervo's drive the turret faster.
im not looking to gain damage, just be able to sit in my geddon or apoc and fend off smaller attackers like cruisers can with RLML can. |
Matthias Thullmann
Dynatron Inc. The Volition Cult
11
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Posted - 2013.09.16 20:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Missiles, drones and turrets are three entirely different systems. Let me simulate what you just said: "My warrior drones apply 100% of their dps against frigates going 1000m/s at 20km, why don't my small neutron blasters apply 100% of the damage in the same situation? They're both small frigate weapons."
See how silly it sounds? 90% of the problems in eve online is when people mistake one weapons system for another or start comparing them.
To sum up: Ammo type dictates range and damage with turrets already. With missiles it's entirely different, their damage/range is pretty much set and the only thing you can play around is explosion velocity/radius.
Mole Guy wrote:lets use the dual heavy pulse. to me, that means there are 2 heavy pulse lasers sitting side by side lold pretty hard at this though, thanks. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
505
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Posted - 2013.09.16 20:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
RML's need deleting ... replace with Medium Assault launchers firing you guessed it medium assault missiles so basically
- less fittings than HAMS - less damage - better tracking
This way they actually match guns more closely and you can still use them against smaller targets on ships designed for tracking smaller ships like Caracal navy issue and drake navy issue and bellicose/ Minnie recons Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
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Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
39
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Posted - 2013.09.16 21:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:RML's need deleting ... replace with Medium Assault launchers firing you guessed it medium assault missiles so basically
- less fittings than HAMS - less damage - better tracking
This way they actually match guns more closely and you can still use them against smaller targets on ships designed for tracking smaller ships like Caracal navy issue and drake navy issue and bellicose/ Minnie recons
frigate class: rockets (high dps, short range) light missiles (low dps, long range)
cruiser class: heavy assault missiles (high dps, short range) heavy missiles (low dps, long range) rapid light missile launchers (low dps, short range, better damage application)
battleship class: torpedos (high dps, short range) cruise missiles (low dps, extreme range)
The only thing that is "missing" is an improved application on a battleship hull, however most people get around this with drones. The inverse (applying "up") is what stealth bombers and the tier3 BCs do.
From the gun side, with such a wide range of ammo choices to cover essentially all possible ranges and multiple guns available for each fitting size that trade off raw dps for fitting/tracking, I really don't see the issue.
The system is asymmetric, but seems balanced to me. |
Matthias Thullmann
Dynatron Inc. The Volition Cult
11
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Posted - 2013.09.17 12:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:RML's need deleting ... replace with Medium Assault launchers
RML's are medium assault launchers.... Put in game to simulate other races anti frigate turrets.
Harvey James wrote:better tracking Uh... wut? |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
505
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Posted - 2013.09.17 12:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Matthias Thullmann wrote:Harvey James wrote:RML's need deleting ... replace with Medium Assault launchers RML's are medium assault launchers.... Put in game to simulate other races anti frigate turrets. Harvey James wrote:better tracking Uh... wut?
er.... no medium guns have reduced sig res .. electron blaster still have 125 sig res where as RLML's use light missiles with frig explosion radius and GMP skill on top of that.
missiles track .... explosion velocity and radius.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Mole Guy
Xoth Inc
367
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Posted - 2013.09.18 05:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
you guys are missing the mark completely.
"the cruiser weapon that fires small ammo."
what if i didnt want large weapon on my ship? what if i want smaller cannons or machine guns? ive seen m2 machine guns on battle ships. ive seen dual m2's AND quad m2's in WWII.
they were on battleships. close in, tons of dps against certain targets. what do they do against other bs? not a damn thing, but they are great anti small ship or anti aircraft platforms.
i really like the RLML and wish we had a bs version that spit heavies, and some guns that are the size of the smaller vessel but fit mid or larger vessels.
sure i can stick a small gun on a bs, but it wasnt designed to be there, its more like a rig.
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Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
142
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Posted - 2013.09.18 07:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
To be honest bigger Ships without Weapon Bonus but with small weapons can scare the **** out of frigs. |
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