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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 05:27:00 -
[811] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:There is too many attacks motivated by kill boards and just to upset other players, picking on them. I understand the ones done for loot but there isn't much left after a mining barge pops Who has better morals...the person shooting a defenseless rock or the person who kills the miner and protects the rock? You jest, but that about nicely summs it. Moral Relativity is the doom of the human-kind / just saying. If you put value on life 0 / since value itself is based only in an ideology. And everything else got about the same value than we are screwed.
EVE is a game. On the internet.
Please don't let us act any different from how we act in Real Life, or deviate only slightly from Kantian morality.
It would be the doom of mankind. Just saying. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 05:30:00 -
[812] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Huehuehue wrote:morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door? Let me ask you, when you play Monopoly with your family, do you give them all a break when they land on your Boardwalk with 2 hotels? Wheres your morality? You're jacking up prices on your properties and robbing them of all their monopoly money. You're immoral! How is ganking people in a videogame even considered immoral anyways? its space play money and you joined the game knowing that people can blow you up anywhere. its not real! and if you argue that people put real dollars into it via gtc's, thats their own stupidity. Again, they knew what kind of game this is.
well MONOPOLY : goal is to win. Ways to win are clearly defined
EVE : goal is non-existant, unless you create one, or join group which allready figured some goals.
Blowing up ships : nothing bad about it, and many agree its part of the game.
Personal humiliation, attacks which can follow are not part of the game, and extracting tears is not part of the game, Its part of the player mindset. And therefore "immoral" can be defined.
But its been allready discussed to no end.. .
As long as the ganker can live in their world consisting their real I, and their in-game different I they are on safe side.
Anyway dont fly what you are not prepared to lose. Its actually not about isk and never was. Its about emotional attachment.
edit jsut free stream of thought
The fact that you are emotionally attached to bunch of pixels is your problem and you should seek help ??
oh really?
The fact that you are emotionally attached to make someone feel miserable in game is your problem and you should seek help.
In the end we can discuss what emotions are and how they are created. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 05:33:00 -
[813] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:Huehuehue wrote:morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door? Let me ask you, when you play Monopoly with your family, do you give them all a break when they land on your Boardwalk with 2 hotels? Wheres your morality? You're jacking up prices on your properties and robbing them of all their monopoly money. You're immoral! How is ganking people in a videogame even considered immoral anyways? its space play money and you joined the game knowing that people can blow you up anywhere. its not real! and if you argue that people put real dollars into it via gtc's, thats their own stupidity. Again, they knew what kind of game this is. well MONOPOLY : goal is to win. Ways to win are clearly defined EVE : goal is non-existant, unless you create one, or join group which allready figured some goals. Blowing up ships : nothing bad about it, and many agree its part of the game. Personal humiliation, attacks which can follow are not part of the game, and extracting tears is not part of the game, Its part of the player mindset. And therefore "immoral" can be defined. But its been allready discussed to no end.. . As long as the ganker can live in their world consisting their real I, and their in-game different I they are on safe side. Anyway dont fly what you are not prepared to lose. Its actually not about isk and never was. Its about emotional attachment.
What are you rambling on about? Seriously. What's your thesis here? |
Terminal Insanity
Convex Enterprises
54
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 05:34:00 -
[814] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:Huehuehue wrote:morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door? Let me ask you, when you play Monopoly with your family, do you give them all a break when they land on your Boardwalk with 2 hotels? Wheres your morality? You're jacking up prices on your properties and robbing them of all their monopoly money. You're immoral! How is ganking people in a videogame even considered immoral anyways? its space play money and you joined the game knowing that people can blow you up anywhere. its not real! and if you argue that people put real dollars into it via gtc's, thats their own stupidity. Again, they knew what kind of game this is. well MONOPOLY : goal is to win. Ways to win are clearly defined EVE : goal is non-existant, unless you create one, or join group which allready figured some goals. Blowing up ships : nothing bad about it, and many agree its part of the game. Personal humiliation, attacks which can follow are not part of the game, and extracting tears is not part of the game, Its part of the player mindset. And therefore "immoral" can be defined. But its been allready discussed to no end.. . As long as the ganker can live in their world consisting their real I, and their in-game different I they are on safe side. Anyway dont fly what you are not prepared to lose. Its actually not about isk and never was. Its about emotional attachment.
Its an RPG. Role-Playing Game. If you want to grief players and harass them and extort them for money, that IS PART OF THE GAME. Its not specifically defined word-for-word in the 'eve rulebook' but, tehre IS NO EVE RULEBOOK, that is the rule! You are completely free to set your own goals within the game, as you said. Hulkageddon is an awesome example of this community-created goal in which many participate in.
It is a sandbox. Instead of calling for mommy and daddy to draw a line down the center of the sandbox, why not create your own defense against the attacks? Why not GET CREATIVE AND DO SOMETHING, instead of begging mommy and daddy to take billy out of the sandbox so you can play alone |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 05:36:00 -
[815] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote: It is a sandbox. Instead of calling for mommy and daddy to draw a line down the center of the sandbox, why not create your own defense against the attacks? Why not GET CREATIVE AND DO SOMETHING, instead of begging mommy and daddy to take billy out of the sandbox so you can play alone
There you have it. Eve is basically a bullying simulator.
It only gets touchy for those who are victims of bullying IRL and play EVE to escape it. Woops.
|
Jenshae Chiroptera
120
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 05:37:00 -
[816] - Quote
(Side note: In the same way that controlling how people speak, Internet games are changing the ways that people think and interact with each other.) CSM do you think? No matter the changes, high sec people chose the safests. Lots of stick and they will leave. Half the problem is the players in null sec; we do not want to be there with you. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 05:37:00 -
[817] - Quote
Well i got no personal attachment to such. I play as i chose to. And i tried killing other player ships without reason i found the very act displeasing and therefore i not doing it.
Other people find it fun and great and therefore they are engaged in such.
We are different. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 05:40:00 -
[818] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote: It is a sandbox. Instead of calling for mommy and daddy to draw a line down the center of the sandbox, why not create your own defense against the attacks? Why not GET CREATIVE AND DO SOMETHING, instead of begging mommy and daddy to take billy out of the sandbox so you can play alone
There you have it. Eve is basically a bullying simulator. It only gets touchy for those who are victims of bullying IRL and play EVE to escape it. Woops.
Karma is ***** ... Kill several innocent citizens in real life then help people in game. |
Terminal Insanity
Convex Enterprises
54
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 05:43:00 -
[819] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote: It is a sandbox. Instead of calling for mommy and daddy to draw a line down the center of the sandbox, why not create your own defense against the attacks? Why not GET CREATIVE AND DO SOMETHING, instead of begging mommy and daddy to take billy out of the sandbox so you can play alone
There you have it. Eve is basically a bullying simulator. It only gets touchy for those who are victims of bullying IRL and play EVE to escape it. Woops. thats pretty dumb idea, to escape IRL bullying by playing eveonline, a harsh unforgiving space environment without any real rules. wtf did you expect?
Escape cancer by smoking cigarettes too?
My point is you joined this game knowing the rules were: There are no rules. If you form some kind of emotional attachment to your internet spaceship or space bucks, thats your own dumb fault. You knew the rules ahead of time. If you do not like the rules, dont play the game. Its that simple. You dont get to go into a casino and tell THEM to follow your rules. There are other people at the table and they enjoy taking your cash. |
Mistah Ewedynao
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 06:02:00 -
[820] - Quote
Another thread ruined by Tippia's twisted homo wannabe sapien logic.
How droll.... |
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
680
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 06:06:00 -
[821] - Quote
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:Another thread ruined by Tippia's twisted homo wannabe sapien logic.
How droll.... Can't blame Tippia for this one. This thread was ruined as soon as the OP created it.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Bebe Bijou
Steel Heart Industries
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 06:14:00 -
[822] - Quote
I like to be nice :) |
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 08:22:00 -
[823] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: There's one now.
Get to the back of the short bus and sit down!
I am almost a generation older than the average EvE player so you best pay attention kids.
Oh my! A personal insult and an argument by seniority. Watch out people he's taken off the gloves! Now you shall feel the true power of his intellectual might. (A soft spring breeze is felt faintly on the face)
The loser in any fight consols himself with a moral victory. Thus is the beginning of slave-morality. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 08:50:00 -
[824] - Quote
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: There's one now.
Get to the back of the short bus and sit down!
I am almost a generation older than the average EvE player so you best pay attention kids.
Oh my! A personal insult and an argument by seniority. Watch out people he's taken off the gloves! Now you shall feel the true power of his intellectual might. (A soft spring breeze is felt faintly on the face)
He actually gave up several pages ago, now its just "trolling / for lack of better term" same as some people do from very start. |
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 09:26:00 -
[825] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Halcyon Ingenium wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: There's one now.
Get to the back of the short bus and sit down!
I am almost a generation older than the average EvE player so you best pay attention kids.
Oh my! A personal insult and an argument by seniority. Watch out people he's taken off the gloves! Now you shall feel the true power of his intellectual might. (A soft spring breeze is felt faintly on the face) He actually gave up several pages ago, now its just "trolling / for lack of better term" same as some people do from very start.
If I felt his argument had any merit I probably wouldn't be so condescending. But DOJ statistics and psych studies done numerous times over prove his arguments to be in fact the opposite of reality. I guess I could actually provide links to papers and dig out the DOJ statistics, but honestly I don't think it would do any good. His arguments are based in belief and emotion, no amount or reason or fact can penetrate that. He's clearly more interested in being "right". His concern for "truth" (whether such a thing is possible or desirable to obtain is another discussion) is non-existent.
I guess I could just ignore him. But lets be honest, no one comes to this board to just ignore people.
The loser in any fight consols himself with a moral victory. Thus is the beginning of slave-morality. |
Arbiter Reborn
Saiph Industries SRS.
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 09:32:00 -
[826] - Quote
mmmm tears |
Why U Mad
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 10:05:00 -
[827] - Quote
Ah I remember getting my miner blown up a few times
jetcan mining= chance of can flipping. Even when I scanned down a grav site that I thought would be all to myself, Poof. a can flipper came in to ruin my day.
Lesson learned: Always use GSC's!!!! or hauler.
Lost an industrial at a gate camp.
Lesson learned: check your routes if they pass through lowsec for player activity/ships/pods destroyed. Carry a cloak. Jump, align, hit cloak instantly, wait.... If the enemy drifts away 20-30km or so I dissengage the cloak and warp to 0.
Lost frigates at a gate camp.
lessoned learned: remote sensor boosting gatecamps will lock/scram u in less than 2 seconds. Depending on the # of people, even fittings warp core stabs won't even help. However depending on the makeup and how fast you are, 2 warpstabs may buy you enough time.
Lost a miner at a belt in a .2system
Lesson learned: dont just check local, but get that directional scanner going and as soon as someone shows up "assume" that they are coming to kill you and go ahead and warp off. Leave behind the drones if neccessary.
Lost a frigate at a complex
Lesson learned: watch your back, and know rules of engagement. If someone else's logisic drones are healing your loot stealer, don't go shooting the buddy. When dealing with flippers in highsec, gotta know the rules of engagement.
Got wardecced
Lesson learned: Wardecs suck considering someone has free reign over you clear into a .9 system. Especially hurts miners. Be in a corp that can fight good, or stick to the NPC corp.
Suicide ganked in Jita
Lesson learned: if your cargo is valuable, be paranoid. And for the love of GOD fit a shield extender in the mids on every industrial ship your gonna fly. Don't make yourself so super squishy in front of a firing squad. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
97
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 17:55:00 -
[828] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:Huehuehue wrote:morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door? Let me ask you, when you play Monopoly with your family, do you give them all a break when they land on your Boardwalk with 2 hotels? Wheres your morality? You're jacking up prices on your properties and robbing them of all their monopoly money. You're immoral! How is ganking people in a videogame even considered immoral anyways? its space play money and you joined the game knowing that people can blow you up anywhere. its not real! and if you argue that people put real dollars into it via gtc's, thats their own stupidity. Again, they knew what kind of game this is. well MONOPOLY : goal is to win. Ways to win are clearly defined EVE : goal is non-existant, unless you create one, or join group which allready figured some goals. Blowing up ships : nothing bad about it, and many agree its part of the game. Personal humiliation, attacks which can follow are not part of the game, and extracting tears is not part of the game, Its part of the player mindset. And therefore "immoral" can be defined. But its been allready discussed to no end.. . As long as the ganker can live in their world consisting their real I, and their in-game different I they are on safe side. Anyway dont fly what you are not prepared to lose. Its actually not about isk and never was. Its about emotional attachment. Its an RPG. Role-Playing Game. If you want to grief players and harass them and extort them for money, that IS PART OF THE GAME. Its not specifically defined word-for-word in the 'eve rulebook' but, tehre IS NO EVE RULEBOOK, that is the rule! You are completely free to set your own goals within the game, as you said. Hulkageddon is an awesome example of this community-created goal in which many participate in. It is a sandbox. Instead of calling for mommy and daddy to draw a line down the center of the sandbox, why not create your own defense against the attacks? Why not GET CREATIVE AND DO SOMETHING, instead of begging mommy and daddy to take billy out of the sandbox so you can play alone
Why do you have the go in with the "it's a sandbox" thing? Just admit what you are.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
97
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 17:57:00 -
[829] - Quote
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Halcyon Ingenium wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: There's one now.
Get to the back of the short bus and sit down!
I am almost a generation older than the average EvE player so you best pay attention kids.
Oh my! A personal insult and an argument by seniority. Watch out people he's taken off the gloves! Now you shall feel the true power of his intellectual might. (A soft spring breeze is felt faintly on the face) He actually gave up several pages ago, now its just "trolling / for lack of better term" same as some people do from very start. If I felt his argument had any merit I probably wouldn't be so condescending. But DOJ statistics and psych studies done numerous times over prove his arguments to be in fact the opposite of reality. I guess I could actually provide links to papers and dig out the DOJ statistics, but honestly I don't think it would do any good. His arguments are based in belief and emotion, no amount or reason or fact can penetrate that. He's clearly more interested in being "right". His concern for "truth" (whether such a thing is possible or desirable to obtain is another discussion) is non-existent. I guess I could just ignore him. But lets be honest, no one comes to this board to just ignore people.
Please, prove away.
Still does not hide the fact that greifers and bullies are incapable of admitting it.
Waiting for your proof.
|
Basileus Volkan
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
64
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:18:00 -
[830] - Quote
Just fyi, my dear people:
Quote:According to the DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), in order to be diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder, a patient must have a persistent history of disregard for and violation of the othersGÇÖ rights, occurring since age 15, evidenced by three (or more) of the following seven traits:
- Failure to conform to social norms (evidenced by repeated unlawful behaviors) - Deceitfulness, repeated lying, use of aliases, or manipulating others for personal profit or pleasure - Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead - Irritability and aggressiveness (repeated physical fights or assaults) - Reckless disregard for safety of self or others - Consistent irresponsibility (such as repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations) - Lack of remorse, indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another
Incidentally this is also what it takes to get ahead in EvE and what we Goons have been doing all along. |
|
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
296
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 18:21:00 -
[831] - Quote
Basileus Volkan wrote:Just fyi, my dear people: Quote:According to the DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), in order to be diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder, a patient must have a persistent history of disregard for and violation of the othersGÇÖ rights, occurring since age 15, evidenced by three (or more) of the following seven traits:
- Failure to conform to social norms (evidenced by repeated unlawful behaviors) - Deceitfulness, repeated lying, use of aliases, or manipulating others for personal profit or pleasure - Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead - Irritability and aggressiveness (repeated physical fights or assaults) - Reckless disregard for safety of self or others - Consistent irresponsibility (such as repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations) - Lack of remorse, indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another Incidentally this is also what it takes to get ahead in EvE and what we Goons have been doing all along.
hehehehe, sounds like every US Marine I ever served with. Oohrah.
+1 Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
687
|
Posted - 2011.11.07 19:59:00 -
[832] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Please, prove away.
Still does not hide the fact that greifers and bullies are incapable of admitting it.
Waiting for your proof.
What examples of griefing have you seen in-game? Keep in mind that griefing is against the Eve Online ToS.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Terminal Insanity
Convex Enterprises
62
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 00:48:00 -
[833] - Quote
I'm being griefed, by PLEX prices =( |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
72
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 04:42:00 -
[834] - Quote
Aubepine Finfleur wrote:Torin Corax wrote: I do not leave my morality at the door, as a gamer I simply adopt the morality of the game world into which I am immersing myself for a while. This principal holds true for every game I've ever played. You ever bluff in poker? That's just attempting to trick someone. Not very nice to try and trick people out of real money surely? But that's the "morality" of the game. If you are going to play poker then you know this, and accept it.
Eve is a game set in a deliberately harsh universe, that is the "moral" baseline. Accept it and either enjoy the ride or move on. I enjoy the ride not because I like to hurt people, but because the constant risk associated with everything you do in Eve adds "spice". It's what makes otherwise mundane and boring activities tolerable. It also , to my mind at least, promotes teamwork in a way I've not experienced in any other game. There is nothing like the constant risk of sudden death to bind people together.
EvE is only hardcore and unforgiving if you try to play it in a civil manner. If you use all the tools at your disposal, it becomes fairly easymode, but also immersion-breaking. You merely have to activate multiple accounts to invalidate sec status mechanics, grief and scam to your heart's content with disposable or seemingly innocuous characters. All the more proof that gank- and griefbears do not play the game as a means in itself, but only to make people mad over the internet. They don't care about immersion, since they use both positive and negative characters, disposable ones, and the relations between those characters make no sense whatsoever except in a metagaming context. Nobody claims moral high ground, rather, every EvE player with common sense is disturbed by the fact there's no tool to get back at players playing this metagame, since chain of accounts are not assessed ingame. For example, the market alt of a gankbear semi-afk gatecamper (who waits for the gate activation signal while running missions on his positive sec status alt) should be recognized as such, and there should be a possibility to hide his market activity, so players who have a problem with him could boycott his trade..
Ok I think this makes a good point. In that eve video where the guy gets revenge against pirates who ganked him they fail to mention that the characters he actually got revenge against had been sold in the character bazzarre so he was actully taking blueprints from somone else entirely. The whole notion of trying to get back at someone when characters can be sold and you don't even know it just doesn't work.
I think allot of people in this game grief others not because they are sadistic but because sometimes the ensuing rage is funny. And everyone likes a good laugh. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
97
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 05:59:00 -
[835] - Quote
Basileus Volkan wrote:Just fyi, my dear people: Quote:According to the DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), in order to be diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder, a patient must have a persistent history of disregard for and violation of the othersGÇÖ rights, occurring since age 15, evidenced by three (or more) of the following seven traits:
- Failure to conform to social norms (evidenced by repeated unlawful behaviors) - Deceitfulness, repeated lying, use of aliases, or manipulating others for personal profit or pleasure - Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead - Irritability and aggressiveness (repeated physical fights or assaults) - Reckless disregard for safety of self or others - Consistent irresponsibility (such as repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations) - Lack of remorse, indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another Incidentally this is also what it takes to get ahead in EvE and what we Goons have been doing all along.
That's a load of BS. You goons use the facade of being griefers to achieve actual game-related goals.
Oh sure, you just want to get tears ganking all those ice miners... wink wink nod nod. |
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
301
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 12:40:00 -
[836] - Quote
I hate to burst everyones bubbles. But, in EVE Online, you can get back at those that have wronged you in an unscrupulous way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I&feature=relmfu
Even the Empire factions gank each other
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKviRpvGXBs&feature=relmfu
Its all part of the game.
/thread Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun. |
Mr LaForge
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
109
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 12:41:00 -
[837] - Quote
If I didn't leave it at the door someone might have scammed me out of it inside. I can't have that. I Support the Goons! |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
74
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 16:40:00 -
[838] - Quote
If you are like the person in this video, you have allot of time. Thats a lot of work to try to get revenge for a merlin. And it is likely that most of the people who blew up your merlin are no longer even in the alliance by the time you get access to those assets. Hell most of the characters may have been sold to other people by that time.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
302
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 16:46:00 -
[839] - Quote
Cearain wrote: And it is likely that most of the people who blew up your merlin are no longer even in the alliance by the time you get access to those assets. Hell most of the characters may have been sold to other people by that time.
And your point is? Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun. |
ShadowandLight
Mostly Always Dangerous Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
12
|
Posted - 2011.11.08 17:52:00 -
[840] - Quote
I've always said:
If you a scum bag online to other people, you are probably a scum bag in real life. |
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