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Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 04:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Nullsec has been divided up and effectively cut in half with the CFC controlling half and N3/PL holding the other half. It appears the Southern Russians will regain their ancestral holdings leaving the only odd man out Solar Fleet who will reconstitute themselves in Querious.
Both sides are able to sustain alliance level incomes and appear to be quite content with their current holdings. I'm curious what the CSM's thoughts are on the current state of Be a Renter or Landlord Online-¬
Odyssey and its moon changes appeared to shake things up for a couple months but ultimately turned out to be a fluke as R64's will never approach bottleneck status because of years and years worth of stockpile.
What must be done to generate conflict in 0.0 once again?? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11689
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 08:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
You do realise that these large wars are unbelievably expensive (multiple trillions of ISK) and require very very significant time commitments from the people who organise and run them, right?
The last one just finished a few weeks ago. Please do excuse us while we rat for a few weeks OK? And maybe allow our sleep patterns to catch up.
Meanwhile, how about you make a massive resource and time investment in giving us something to read about?
1 Kings 12:11
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1161
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 12:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nullsec grand strategic warfare follows a predictable model that would further bolster the faith of even the most confident of political realists.
The existing power arrangements become strained by changes in the underlying balances of power->political maneuvering and proxy wars begin to eat at the existing political order->sides are quickly formed in a galaxy spanning conflict->one side wins and establishes a new political order to reflect the new balance of power->return to step one.
After every big shitstorm, people start crying that there will never be conflict in nullsec again, and every time the entire cycle begins to repeat itself within two to three months.
If you dislike the inherent ebb and flow of grand strategy, then I suggest you either find a different aspect of the game to play or a different intelligent species to play in nullsec with (assuming that intelligence and cooperative behaviour aren't mutually hard-determined, making grand strategic behaviour a universal facet of intelligence). Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1162
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 13:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:Odyssey and its moon changes appeared to shake things up for a couple months but ultimately turned out to be a fluke as R64's will never approach bottleneck status because of years and years worth of stockpile.
Also, this is a profound misunderstanding of the Odyssey moon changes.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1840
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 14:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:You do realise that these large wars are unbelievably expensive (multiple trillions of ISK) and require very very significant time commitments from the people who organise and run them, right?
The last one just finished a few weeks ago. Please do excuse us while we rat for a few weeks OK? And maybe allow our sleep patterns to catch up.
I wish I could give this post more likes.
Varius Xeral wrote:Nullsec grand strategic warfare follows a predictable model that would further bolster the faith of even the most confident of political realists.
The existing power arrangements become strained by changes in the underlying balances of power->political maneuvering and proxy wars begin to eat at the existing political order->sides are quickly formed in a galaxy spanning conflict->one side wins and establishes a new political order to reflect the new balance of power->return to step one.
After every big shitstorm, people start crying that there will never be conflict in nullsec again, and every time the entire cycle begins to repeat itself within two to three months.
If you dislike the inherent ebb and flow of grand strategy, then I suggest you either find a different aspect of the game to play or a different intelligent species to play in nullsec with (assuming that intelligence and cooperative behaviour aren't mutually hard-determined, making grand strategic behaviour a universal facet of intelligence).
This one's not too bad either.
Varius Xeral wrote:Leigh Akiga wrote:Odyssey and its moon changes appeared to shake things up for a couple months but ultimately turned out to be a fluke as R64's will never approach bottleneck status because of years and years worth of stockpile. Also, this is a profound misunderstanding of the Odyssey moon changes.
And this one, though there's probably some profound misunderstanding of moons, full stop, there as well. I've gotta assume the OP hasn't looked at Dysprosium in Jita lately, which is exhibiting every appearance of stockpile depletion. The others will follow in time.
Now, the OP is probably looking for something like a way to handwave the game into lots of smaller scale conflicts and the types of wars that we saw recently in Providence, perhaps. And that's all well and good and you can make up all kinds of handwavey bull**** and claim that it'll get the game there, and you might even be right... so long as you avoid the meta factor, the fact that coalitions are A ThingGäó and no matter what you change in the game, that's not likely to change. And if that doesn't change then, well, what good will any of your handwavey changes do, really?
I'm not saying that it isn't worth more work on the sovereignty system and I'm sure that if it ever gets done it will shake things up some, but this idyllic pie in the sky vision the OP and many seem to share may nonetheless never come to pass.
So with all that said...
Malcanis wrote:Meanwhile, how about you make a massive resource and time investment in giving us something to read about? Get to it. We're kicked back on the couch and we need some TV to watch. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11708
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Posted - 2013.09.17 16:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Awaiting the op's reply with some interest.
1 Kings 12:11
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Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
128
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Awaiting the op's reply with some interest.
My reply is that I found Mynnna's post to be quite insightful, I will refrain from saying what i thought of yours. |
Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
128
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
My point was: when Technetium was extremely valuable, everyone wanted it. Even though the CFC and PL squatted atop most of it, everyone was always eyeballing them moons and jabbing at the owners testing the waters for invasion.
Now with R64 supposedly becoming the new hotness, they are spread all over, so its like:
Warmonger A: "Do we want to invade the north?" Warmonger B: "For what?" Warmonger A: "R64!" Warmonger B "Pff theres R64 everywhere who cares"
Theres is nothing extremely valuable anymore that everyone wants. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1843
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:My point was: when Technetium was extremely valuable, everyone wanted it. Even though the CFC and PL squatted atop most of it, everyone was always eyeballing them moons and jabbing at the owners testing the waters for invasion.
Now with R64 supposedly becoming the new hotness, they are spread all over, so its like:
Warmonger A: "Do we want to invade the north?" Warmonger B: "For what?" Warmonger A: "R64!" Warmonger B "Pff theres R64 everywhere who cares"
Theres is nothing extremely valuable anymore that everyone wants.
As someone who has seen moon scan data pre- and post- odyssey for a very large portion of the galaxy, I can assure you that R64s, while they are everywhere, are anything but evenly distributed.
The actual problem is more like that the CFC holds most of the most moon-rich regions in the game, that the entities most able to challenge us for those moons are all in the east sitting on big fat renter empires (and some moons), and that the value added by those moons relative to the value of what they already have isn't enough to encourage them off the couch.
But then again that's still taking a very narrow economics-only view. In a more balkanized universe it might make sense as you'd have people looking to move up the ladder by taking richer and richer regions, but EVE as it is right now doesn't work that way. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4743
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 23:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:My point was: when Technetium was extremely valuable, everyone wanted it. Even though the CFC and PL squatted atop most of it, everyone was always eyeballing them moons and jabbing at the owners testing the waters for invasion.
Now with R64 supposedly becoming the new hotness, they are spread all over, so its like:
Warmonger A: "Do we want to invade the north?" Warmonger B: "For what?" Warmonger A: "R64!" Warmonger B "Pff theres R64 everywhere who cares"
Theres is nothing extremely valuable anymore that everyone wants. you can invade a region because it's filled with irredeemable shitlords you hate
i will be honest that was a bigger reason i lobbied to invade test than the money |
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1165
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 23:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Moons are still worthwhile to target generally and fight larger wars over. At their height, technetium moons were worth something like 12.5b per month each, but only a fraction of that is necessary to make a moon worth fighting over. It was their concentration in a smaller area that led to a political arrangement (OTEC) that effectively squashed conflict instead of driving it (though tech drove conflict just fine until the very end). Tech was bad because it was possible to draw a line around the vast majority of the value of the T2 market, which is no longer possible with the value spread across R64s, and likely soon their alchemical equivalents.
Not only is conflict a regular occurrence in nullsec without moons, the new moon system is a better conflict driver in general than the old system. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Garandras
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 01:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Even if everyone just sat back and farmed their moons
the Null Sec alliances will get bored and start shoot at each other for the hell of it and to show they are better then the other |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
896
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 01:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:You do realise that these large wars are unbelievably expensive (multiple trillions of ISK) and require very very significant time commitments from the people who organise and run them, right?
The last one just finished a few weeks ago. Please do excuse us while we rat for a few weeks OK? And maybe allow our sleep patterns to catch up.
Meanwhile, how about you make a massive resource and time investment in giving us something to read about?
This.
mynnna wrote:Now, the OP is probably looking for something like a way to handwave the game into lots of smaller scale conflicts and the types of wars that we saw recently in Providence, perhaps
And also this.
You want excitement? Grab a reporter's notepad, get out there, and find it! Then write about it. Hell, start your own "EVE News" corporation or something. (note to self, start my own EVE Newscorp)
[Edit: Really, though, it's a pretty open market for that. Most news we really have in this game are secondhand accounts after the fact, editorials, ALODs or just mouthpiece-ing CCP announcements. There's really a market for something like that. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Kiryen O'Bannon
Equal Opportunity Haterz H-K Industries
0
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Posted - 2013.09.18 14:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:You do realise that these large wars are unbelievably expensive (multiple trillions of ISK) and require very very significant time commitments from the people who organise and run them, right?
The last one just finished a few weeks ago. Please do excuse us while we rat for a few weeks OK? And maybe allow our sleep patterns to catch up.
Meanwhile, how about you make a massive resource and time investment in giving us something to read about?
Not a nullseccer myself or involved in any of these major conflicts, but I lol'd at this. "ZOMG CCP!! People are sleeping and going to work!! Nullsec is broken!!" |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11722
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 15:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:My point was: when Technetium was extremely valuable, everyone wanted it. Even though the CFC and PL squatted atop most of it, everyone was always eyeballing them moons and jabbing at the owners testing the waters for invasion.
Now with R64 supposedly becoming the new hotness, they are spread all over, so its like:
Warmonger A: "Do we want to invade the north?" Warmonger B: "For what?" Warmonger A: "R64!" Warmonger B "Pff theres R64 everywhere who cares"
Theres is nothing extremely valuable anymore that everyone wants.
Ahahaha there most certainly is.
Space that can be rented is the new Technetium.
EDIT: Also there was a much longer period of stagnation when Tech was at it's height than we have ever seen since the moon rebalance.
1 Kings 12:11
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11722
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 15:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:Malcanis wrote:Awaiting the op's reply with some interest. My reply is that I found Mynnna's post to be quite insightful, I will refrain from saying what i thought of yours.
Can I take it that this means you've already committed the time and ISK and we'll be seeing the results overturn the map anytime now?
1 Kings 12:11
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Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
129
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 16:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Can I take it that this means you've already committed the time and ISK and we'll be seeing the results overturn the map anytime now?
I am but a cog in the wheel my friend
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Ezslider
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 16:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Weaselior wrote: you can invade a region because it's filled with irredeemable shitlords you hate
This is the best reaosn, and I feel the only real reason the line members really 'x' up for pos destruction.
Weaselior wrote:I will be honest that was a bigger reason i lobbied to invade test than the money
Goons see Dreddit as they once were...thus Goons self loathing is projected.
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Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
130
|
Posted - 2013.09.19 18:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Glad to see assigning sentry drones then ducking into a pos got declared an exploit |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4592
|
Posted - 2013.09.22 02:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
0.0 is more vibrant now? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
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Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
435
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 15:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Weaselior wrote: you can invade a region because it's filled with irredeemable shitlords you hate
i will be honest that was a bigger reason i lobbied to invade test than the money
Someone please start a TV Tropes alliance. |
Nathalie LaPorte
Republic University Minmatar Republic
174
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:Malcanis wrote:Can I take it that this means you've already committed the time and ISK and we'll be seeing the results overturn the map anytime now? I am but a cog in the wheel my friend
Never really understood that phrase, usually when you see a cog it's next to the wheel, not in the wheel.
That said, regardless of how the cog and the wheel are connected, why would the cog be begging for a bumpier road? Generally when I drive my car around, I aim for smooth roads, not roads filled with bumps and sov-wars. Perhaps the OP is a cog in a wheel attached to an offroad racing vehicle? But if the vehicle to which the OP's cog-containing wheel is attached is such a fiercely individualistic all-terrain vehicle, then why is the OP asking for help finding conflicts, specifically large conflicts in which the OP will have no decision making influence?
This multilevel metaphor is getting quite complicated, perhaps trying to understand the how's and why's of nullsec conflict through the extended conceit of an anonymous OP functioning as a cog in some sort of wheel was not a wise decision. |
Callduron
Corporate Scum Northern Associates.
521
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 14:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
I notice the OP is in State War Academy (yes yes I know it could be an alt, bear with me) and it brings this question to mind:
Who is nullsec for?
Many times when nullsec is talked of as stagnant it seems to me that some of the loudest voices are people who don't play in nullsec, who have never played in nullsec and who will never play in nullsec. But they like reading the stories.
Currently if you are actually in nullsec you are probably one of two types - you love pvp and want lots of action or you are a nullbear wanting to farm in peace. Current nullsec action is highly localised to Curse and adjacent space. This seems to suit both types of actual nullsec inhabitant - if you want a fight fly to Curse and if you want to be left alone live somewhere else.
But is there an actual duty on nullsec iinhabitants to make Eve interesting for people who don't live here? Why shouldn't there be a duty on high end wormhole residents to have turf wars and publicise them? Or competing Jita undock campers or any other masters of lucrative space? CAOD: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. |
samualvimes
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
102
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 20:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Whenever I've played in nullsec (most of my eve career I started I believe 2 weeks in) I've never felt that it was "stagnant"
Sure there may have been a lack of huge fleet operations and major invasions but there was a lot of roaming gangs coming around and a lot of HD fleets going up to force them out.
sure to the people in hi-sec watching the news and the influence map nothing seems to be happening but I never had a boring day in nullsec.
TL;DR null is fun all the time. High is dull |
Signal11th
DARKNESS.
1123
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 13:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:Nullsec has been divided up and effectively cut in half with the CFC controlling half and N3/PL holding the other half. It appears the Southern Russians will regain their ancestral holdings leaving the only odd man out Solar Fleet who will reconstitute themselves in Querious.
Both sides are able to sustain alliance level incomes and appear to be quite content with their current holdings. I'm curious what the CSM's thoughts are on the current state of Be a Renter or Landlord Online-¬
Odyssey and its moon changes appeared to shake things up for a couple months but ultimately turned out to be a fluke as R64's will never approach bottleneck status because of years and years worth of stockpile.
What must be done to generate conflict in 0.0 once again??
Personally I can't afford to fight all the bloody time, it's flipping expensive even when you are winning let alone losing. Some of us have a life.
I'm sure some ego-obsessed internet Cpt.Kirk will **** off someone in the near future and the whole merry-go-round will happen again for you. Powered by-áreaTh-áFilter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of-áany-ácorp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a-ásh*t anyway. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
12051
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 19:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Callduron wrote: But is there an actual duty on nullsec iinhabitants to make Eve interesting for people who don't live here? Why shouldn't there be a duty on high end wormhole residents to have turf wars and publicise them? Or competing Jita undock campers or any other masters of lucrative space?
Well said.
1 Kings 12:11
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Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
190
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 08:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
There is a slight bit of truth in the whole "null is stagnating", but there's more in the fact that it just emerged from a big conflict. There's always a period of silence after those hit - wallets of individual line grunts are being padded, small gang shootouts occur - the usual.
There are some issues on a war level itself, coming from sov mechanics and how much systems are worth to an individual member - at least, that's my opinion. Currently it's rare to see someone fight until the bitter end, they just fold up and leave the region to a slow grind. TEST finished it with a suicidal charge against the force sieging 6VDT and evacuated Delve before the frontline reached it.
(At leatst that's like, my opinion dude...) Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
12074
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 08:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
Not to mention that there's plenty going on in Curse. Just because it's not on TMC or EN24 doesn't mean it's not happening.
1 Kings 12:11
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
723
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 12:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:What must be done to generate conflict in 0.0 once again??
Maybe you recognize this phenomena, maybe not, but as a CEO I get a lot of my guys ask me whether or not they are allowed to do some thing or another. Some people are almost grovelling, scared to do something that might result in an embarrassing loss or a diplomatic incident. I am quick to remind them we are the villains, do what thou wilst. I don't ask permission from my alliance exec for every fart I need to get rid of either, I'm very much capable of generating content and not giving two cents when things don't go as planned (read: I get an entire fleet welped). In the end people undock out of their own violition.
Nullsec alliances often throw up way to much barriers in an attempt to create stability. The thing about stability is that it's ultimately boring. Ha, that reminds me... a couple of days ago me and a buddy were bashing someones POS someone had set up in our lowsec home. I had a friendly convo with it's owner and requested a ransom payment. One of his corpies barged in, genuinely surprised at our hostile actions. That we had the nerve to attack them without prior warning! It seemed to slowly dawn upon them that I was not susceptible to promises of 'mutually beneficial business' and stuck to my demands. Oops, there's goes another 10% of the shield... that's a 10 mil increase on the ransom demand. The clock is ticking, ticking, tick tock, tick tock...
A 3hr reinforcement timer appeared. So did a response fleet for said timer. Their mother alliance had sent a response fleet for the timer and we had a great, although somewhat onesided fight (in our favour). Many explosions happened! A couple of hours later, we were flagged with two new wardecs. All of this started with 2 Battleships ransoming a small POS in lowsec. The moral of this story? Good things come to those that act instead of ask. Be bold pilot, the bloody intro even tells you to. Wake up that nullsec brain of yours! Scale down to a level of conflict you can generate yourself, stake a claim and start pushing for your own objectives. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1105
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 13:30:00 -
[30] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:Weaselior wrote: you can invade a region because it's filled with irredeemable shitlords you hate
i will be honest that was a bigger reason i lobbied to invade test than the money
Someone please start a TV Tropes alliance.
Oh please yes, if there's something to hate more than Reddit its TVTropes. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
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