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Ishwar Das
General Research
0
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Posted - 2013.09.17 17:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have a new corp mate who is about to quit the game after a month because one fellow and his friends keep killing her in .05 and .06 space.
They put a 2 mil bounty on her, then kill her and collect it. Then they send her taunting chats, asking if she will buy another retriever. Or asking her how she is enjoying the game. One kills her and another comes and salvages her ship.
She has blocked chat with several characters, but others replace them and the taunts continue.
They have followed her to other systems.
She is now moving much farther away to .08 space, but they may track her via the bounty system. There is another 2 mil bounty on her.
Our corp is small and scattered and mostly new players. We could not really fight a war. She is one kill from quitting the game.
Is the bounty system supposed to reward griefers?
I thought people lost security status for unprovoked attacks in .05 and .06, but apparently not enough to matter.
For the griefers this must be great fun, but for her it feels personal and unprovoked and not worth the money.
Is there a solution for her? Is this all working as intended?
Thanks
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Desivo Delta Visseroff
Cedar Knolls Research STEEL BROTHERHOOD
21
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Posted - 2013.09.17 17:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ishwar Das wrote:I have a new corp mate who is about to quit the game after a month because one fellow and his friends keep killing her in .05 and .06 space.
They put a 2 mil bounty on her, then kill her and collect it. Then they send her taunting chats, asking if she will buy another retriever. Or asking her how she is enjoying the game. One kills her and another comes and salvages her ship.
She has blocked chat with several characters, but others replace them and the taunts continue.
They have followed her to other systems.
She is now moving much farther away to .08 space, but they may track her via the bounty system. There is another 2 mil bounty on her.
Our corp is small and scattered and mostly new players. We could not really fight a war. She is one kill from quitting the game.
Is the bounty system supposed to reward griefers?
I thought people lost security status for unprovoked attacks in .05 and .06, but apparently not enough to matter.
For the griefers this must be great fun, but for her it feels personal and unprovoked and not worth the money.
Is there a solution for her? Is this all working as intended?
Thanks
Bounty means nothing. Just petition it up the chain. Alternatively, get your corp together and wardec the griefers. Wardec them a few times in a row and get some meta going. No one should leave the game because of a bully. Give them the same medicine back.
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
202
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Posted - 2013.09.17 17:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
When you kill someone you only get a small percentage of the bounty, the guys popping her are not getting the full 2m. More to the point though, bounties aren't motivators for blapping people IMHO -- not unless your did a typo and its 2 billion isk bounty :)
The only way these guys can kill your friend is by suicide ganking, which if she tanks her ship properly will ensure they are losing much more on their ships to CONCORD, than she loses. Putting 2 Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes, a Damage Controll II and 3x Trimark Armor pump rigs on can get you near 16k EHP. A (hopefully) one-time investment in a full set of Slave implants will take it up to near 21k EHP.
That means if she mines in .08-1.0 space with a fast CONCORD response time, her agressors are in a world of hurt and might fail the gank entirely -- but at a minimum will have to bring a hell of a lot more suiciders along to get the kill. Again driving up their cost.
Thats what she needs to take comfort in, that provided she tanks properly -- its actually costing the agressors hella more than it is her.
p.s. She will have killrights on them, and contacting a mercenary corporation like ours to co-ordinate the activation of said rights with us hot-dropping and applying pwnage on the aggressors next time they come calling is also win. Heck, we can even run locates and hunt them down completely unawares even when they are not hassling her, once in position she activates the killright and spanko.... :) Would you like to know more? |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
95
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 17:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ishwar Das wrote:war [...] unprovoked attacks So, what is it now? A war (as in war declaration against your corp) or an unprovoked attack?
As Desivo wrote, bounties mean nothing, they are just another way to taunt people.
Now, she should petition against the taunting chants - especially if they are using alts to avoid getting blocked, that might count as harassment.
But as for the ship losses: HTFU. Find friends. Fly a bait-fitted procurer and then drop a fleet on them. Don't join wimpy corps that cannot protect you. (And at 7% tax in a player corp, I'd expect something back for my ISK.) EVE is a harsh world where you have to take justice into your own hands. And don't post whiny posts on the forum, as that will only make you more of a target. |
Leafar Nightfall
Angels and Demons Inc. Mordus Angels
86
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
1) Get her in a noobship 2) Shoot her noobship down* 3) Share the bounty they placed on her** 4) ??? 5) Profit
*You might need an alt out of your corp, I'm now sure how the bounty rewarding works **As said above, not all the money goes to you |
Desivo Delta Visseroff
Cedar Knolls Research STEEL BROTHERHOOD
22
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:p.s. She will have killrights on them, and contacting a mercenary corporation like ours to co-ordinate the activation of said rights with us hot-dropping and applying pwnage on the aggressors next time they come calling is also win. Heck, we can even run locates and hunt them down completely unawares even when they are not hassling her, once in position she activates the killright and spanko.... :)
I just read the new post on your blog and much respect to you and your alliance. Any kill right that I may have in the future is going straight to you guys for free. |
Ishwar Das
General Research
2
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for all the answers.
Feyd, I especially like your thoughtful response. I will share all of that information with her. I love the idea of a mercenary corp and the kill rights transfer. That would even the field for a new player.
I also appreciate the other responses.
We are really new in the game. I have been told that my main character looks like a throw away alt. I am the proud new owner of a destroyer... but I still don't have the skills to fully fit the thing... let alone knowing what to use. That's what being in the game for less than a month will do.
It sounds like defense and .08 and .09 space is the short term answer.
Thanks again |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
620
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leafar Nightfall wrote:1) Get her in a noobship 2) Shoot her noobship down* 3) Share the bounty they placed on her** 4) ??? 5) Profit
Won't work. To claim a bounty, you need to blow the person up while they're flying a ship (with fittings) worth 5xbounty. Noobships, afaik, are considered to be worth 0 for the purposes of a bounty.
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Desivo Delta Visseroff
Cedar Knolls Research STEEL BROTHERHOOD
24
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ishwar Das wrote:Thanks for all the answers. Feyd, I especially like your thoughtful response. I will share all of that information with her. I love the idea of a mercenary corp and the kill rights transfer. That would even the field for a new player. I also appreciate the other responses. We are really new in the game. I have been told that my main character looks like a throw away alt. I am the proud new owner of a destroyer... but I still don't have the skills to fully fit the thing... let alone knowing what to use. That's what being in the game for less than a month will do. It sounds like defense and .08 and .09 space is the short term answer. Thanks again
What I recommend to brand new players is to take your skill progression in steps. Your early focus should be in trying to get all if not most of your engineering, electronic & mechanic skills to 5, then move on to your spaceship command skills. While you're training up the specific class of ship, train up the weapon systems, defensive systems & drone skills. Once you have those to at least all 4's, then move up a class (Destroyers/cruisers). During that time, you can focus on your ship modification and social skills. BC's & BS's don't begin to shine till you start hitting 5's in supporting system skills.
Some don't do that, they just jump in it, which is fine as well.
Cheers, Fly safe and shoot stuff! |
Cara Forelli
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
21
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
It could be sort of fun to put her in a tanky procurer instead of a retriever, and escort her along with a few griffins. Jam the gankers as soon as they start shooting and watch CONCORD do the rest :) www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com |
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Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
100
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ishwar Das wrote: I thought people lost security status for unprovoked attacks in .05 and .06, but apparently not enough to matter.
To pull out something I think is important.
Yes they do, but they can just buy it back so there is no punishment.
Edit: To answer the question though. I will simply leave you this quote. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results." |
Sir Jack Falstaff
The Not So Jolly Rogers Academy
42
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Why is your corp scattered? You should have a home system if you're that small, and it should be in hi-sec if you're that inexperienced. As others have said, hire merc corps if you like, and give them your kill rights if you can't afford them otherwise. If you stick together in hi-sec until you're skilled enough to fight back, you'll do fine. If they come after you you in hi-sec, let Concord deal with them. If you've tanked your ship properly, and you fly together, you'll be fine. You may even turn the tables on them. After all, if they attack you in a .8 system, you (and everyone else) can open fire on them without retribution. You might even get a kill out of it if Concord doesn't get there first!
Others have said don't report them, but I'm going to dissent on this one. If the nature of the harassment goes beyond the normal tough talk and ventures into misogynistic taunting or even hints at real life, report them with all due dispatch. Nuke those f***kers from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Banish plump Jack, and banish all the world. |
Cameron Zero
Red Federation
215
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
AFAIK, a 2m ISK bounty isn't enough to make killing a retriever worth the time/effort, is it? "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. GǪ" |
Desivo Delta Visseroff
Cedar Knolls Research STEEL BROTHERHOOD
25
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Posted - 2013.09.17 18:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cameron Zero wrote:AFAIK, a 2m ISK bounty isn't enough to make killing a retriever worth the time/effort, is it?
Only if its fit like THIS...LOL |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
282
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm guessing your a small corp of nothing but new players and your scattered around the galaxy with differing play times as well. That will not end well. I expect Cannibal Kane has already added you to his naughty list just for this post. He likes showing pilots who think they are having a bad time just what a bad time looks like.
But anyway.. new bro should fly a Procurer. They're 1/3 the cost of Retriever. Put shield extenders and adaptive invulns in the mids. Shield extender rigs. Mining laser upgrades in the lows. Fly it in 0.5 systems and above and no one will gank it. In my humble, but accurate, opinion risk averse pilots should not take their Retrievers out of 0.9 systems.
If you are wardec'd then it is basically time to stop solo mining, or anything solo, and probably mining. Being in a corp means you are there to help each other. If your corp can't help you stay safe, then exactly what service are you providing? This is the rule:-á In Eve it's always a trick. If you don't think it's a trick, you just don't have enough experience to know what the trick is. That doesn't mean you shouldn't launch on that fool anyway and roll the dice. |
Leafar Nightfall
Angels and Demons Inc. Mordus Angels
86
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Leafar Nightfall wrote:1) Get her in a noobship 2) Shoot her noobship down* 3) Share the bounty they placed on her** 4) ??? 5) Profit Won't work. To claim a bounty, you need to blow the person up while they're flying a ship (with fittings) worth 5xbounty. Noobships, afaik, are considered to be worth 0 for the purposes of a bounty.
That's a shame... I think I've read this "scam" somewhere but it might have been in an old thread... |
Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
569
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ishwar Das wrote:
She is now moving much farther away to .08 space, but they may track her via the bounty system. There is another 2 mil bounty on her.
Noticed this. One does not track via the bounty system. That's done via locator agents.
I recommend your friend pack up and move to a new area, TBH. Us gankers, we aren't going to tail one noob to the middle of nowhere, when our usual killing grounds are packed full. Don't worry miners, I'm here to help!
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Xercodo
Xovoni Astronautical Manufacturing and Engineering
2555
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Have her fly in a procurer :P
Tank it up with invuls and the largest shield extenders she can cram on and then fit a damage control too.
Make sure she knows the invuls and damage control need to be turned on to help at all. The Drake is a Lie |
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
Like my colleagues, i can only advise to play more often together with your corpies if possible. First of all EVE is boring whatever you do if you do it too long alone in your corner. And secondo, why making a corporation if it's not to play together and build something together ? A true corporation is not just a chatbox, it's sharing a common project, it's living adventures together ! Try to bring everyone in the same area and time zone. Use the calendar to shuddle some group activities, like missioning or mining or setting a trap to kick the asses of these spacetoads |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
320
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 19:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Why would you make a player corporation if you are unwilling/unable to deal with the consequences?
It always amazes me that people start playing this game and just instantly think that because they've had similar experience in other games, that they are capable of running an organisation in eve.
Most people are not cut out to run a corp, nor is it mandatory to start a corp when you start the game. Join an existing corporation instead, one that has a structure, leadership, and active membership that works together. Anything short of that, creating a corporation is essentially tattooing a "please grief me" sign on your forehead. Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2960
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 20:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ishwar Das wrote: One kills her and another comes and salvages her ship.
To be honest, if she is being ganked by one ship, then she shouldn't be in a retriever.
Sitting in an untanked mining barge and getting blown up over and over is not exactly learning from experience. It's just plain nuts.
That's not how this game works. When something bad happens you try to figure out a solution. If that solution is to quit, then so be it. It's probably for the best. But if that solution is to try various methods of minimizing the likelihood of losing the ship next time then so much the better.
So put your heads together and come up with a solution. And trust me, you're not the first this has happened to and you won't be the last. No time soon will CCP be changing the game mechanics to suit people that refuse to think for themselves. It's up to you to make the sandbox work for you and not for the guys ganking you.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Cara Forelli
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
23
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Posted - 2013.09.17 20:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Eram Fidard wrote:Why would you make a player corporation if you are unwilling/unable to deal with the consequences?
Being in a player corp has nothing to do with her getting ganked. Many people mine solo in the NPC corps with even less chance of getting help from corp-mates. New players often make corporations with their RL friends. There's nothing wrong with that, as long as your interests and timezones are aligned. The problem comes when you realize that you want to branch out and try new things but you can't because you are "trapped" in the corp with your friends. www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com |
Sir Jack Falstaff
The Not So Jolly Rogers Academy
43
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 20:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Yup. Seems like they're getting all the drawbacks of a corp and little, or none, of the benefits. If they're not playing together, what's the point? Better to be in a noob friendly corp like Eve-Uni, RvB, or Brave Newbies, where people will teach you these things (and while they can't protect you from gankers entirely, I'm sure you wouldn't have trouble rounding up some Unistas or Brave Newbies to hunt down some griefers like the OP is describing) Banish plump Jack, and banish all the world. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
321
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 20:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Being in a player corp has nothing to do with her getting ganked.
Yes, you can still get ganked in an NPC corp. But what is the purpose of being in a player corp if you can't even respond to a 'solo' ganker?
Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Ishwar Das
General Research
5
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 20:42:00 -
[25] - Quote
This is a lot of good information and I appreciate all of the input.
There is a lot to learn in Eve, including how to make yourself unprofitable for gankers and what makes a good Corp. I am still loving the idea of mercenary corps. That is an ancient and honored profession.
On hearing the answers on bounties, I think that is just another way for them to taunt her and get inside her head. It does not seem to have a financial aspect.
This does not sound like a long term problem because eventually you figure out how to be tough enough and organized enough to get some payback. New players really are sitting ducks at first.
Someone said to not fly anything you can't afford to lose. That makes very good sense.
Thanks again |
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
1004
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 20:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
If these people are following her around, and creating alts and contacting her to get around her blocking them she can report them and they might get a warning for harassment.
The bounties seem to be a good way to "freak out" new players. Try to make sure she understands that the bounty is completely pointless and instead she can be proud that she has pissed someone off so much that they have to do everything they can to get back at her (well either that or they have a crush on her...sometimes EVE feels like kindergarten were when a boy pulls your hair it means he likes you ).
Phoibe Enterprises official recruitment thread The Eve Reader - -áAudio Recordings of Eve Chronicles
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting Home Front Coalition
705
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 22:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Working as intended? Yes, very much so. You are now part of a player corporation. With that status come benefits, but also vulnerabilities, such as incoming wardecs. You have willingly stepped into this arena so HTFU and accept it or leave. With that harsh bit out of the way, the advice given in this thread should give you a better idea on the how and why of corporate warfare.
I take Eve Online as a plain old pyramid game, because that's what the SP deal simply is to me. That's not a bad thing. It gives rise to player created content, pilots of varying capabilities needing each other in order to achieve greater goals. At it's core Eve is a social game, and hostilities should only prompt you to seek friends and engage in relationships with other corporations. Put your ISK to good use, and invest in your survivability and reputation. Don't be that guy that mines all day just to see his wallet numbers climb.
The solution for your friend would be to evaluate losses and see them as a necessary evil for improvement first. That's a mentality thing no-one can force on you, but there you have it. Then, start to think of ways to counter other people. with ganking miners, that usually involves things like fitting a good tank and combat drones. At some point your Sp and smart fits are going to 'tip the scale' and laugh as some failganker bounces off your tank and gets CONCORDed. Then you get to play with killrights, don't forget to make them available!
I can't link to killmails in this thread, but check my bio ingame. It lists a funny kill. Some ganker tried to kill me, failed, and a couple of days later I collected my own killright by blowing up his Orca. Once you have administered some justice of your own brand the game changes. But you must empower yourself, get involved with other corps. Learn how to PVP from them (classes) or hire them (mercs) to reigh terror upon your enemies. If you don't have the stomach to fight for what you have, you don't deserve to own it. That's a consensus I've found most players tend to agree with, so better suck it up, learn, improve, and come back with a vengeance. |
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
73
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 05:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
Well, there's one point i have forgotten to mention in my precedent answer : As a new corpo made only of new players (i have understood that right, yes ?), there's no one to show you the ropes. I don't think that you should disband your corpo and join an established one, no. Your adventure is exciting, go on ! If you have what it gets, you'll be more rewarded than the average new player. But it would at least be great if you can make friend with one or two vets who would teach you a few basics for your survivability and how to turn your corpo "on the paper" into a true one in game. And don't forget that making friends work in both directions : i receive and i give. |
Disastro
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
90
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 11:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ishwar Das wrote:I have a new corp mate who is about to quit the game after a month because one fellow and his friends keep killing her in .05 and .06 space.
They put a 2 mil bounty on her, then kill her and collect it. Then they send her taunting chats, asking if she will buy another retriever. Or asking her how she is enjoying the game. One kills her and another comes and salvages her ship.
She has blocked chat with several characters, but others replace them and the taunts continue.
They have followed her to other systems.
She is now moving much farther away to .08 space, but they may track her via the bounty system. There is another 2 mil bounty on her.
Our corp is small and scattered and mostly new players. We could not really fight a war. She is one kill from quitting the game.
Is the bounty system supposed to reward griefers?
I thought people lost security status for unprovoked attacks in .05 and .06, but apparently not enough to matter.
For the griefers this must be great fun, but for her it feels personal and unprovoked and not worth the money.
Is there a solution for her? Is this all working as intended?
Thanks
From my own perspective, as someone who did a lot of high sec griefing when i started eve, i have a different solution. One that will actually work.... if your friend will actually follow the advice.
First of all, war decking griefers will never get rid of griefers. That is what they want you to do. They want to be able to freely kill you in high sec with no consequences. If they had any reason to fear you or your friend they would not be griefing in the first place. If you war deck them you will never be rid of them.
Second, griefers are looking for 1. tears 2. kill mails 3. loot . In this order. Deny them these things and they will get bored and move on to someone else. Supply these things to them and they will not leave you alone until you do deny them these things by quitting eve altogether.
Solution: Deny them these three things. How? There are various ways to do this including:
1. Moving far away in eve. If they are in caldari space griefing you then move to Amarr space or minnie space. Somewhere far away.
2. Any time you see them in local stay docked and go watch tv. Let them stew waiting for you while your toon sits in station. They can enjoy watching eve go by while you are watching netflix. Whatever. In the end they will get tired of waiting while you are doing something entirely different.
3. Do not spend money hiring mercs. High sec mercs are worthless. The best of these losers camp jita 24/7. The rest are worse. And to be honest giving the griefers other free targets for them to shoot at is almost as bad as giving them your corpies to shoot at.
4. Petitioning is worthless unless they have actually violated a specific term of EULA. Any other complaint will get ignored. |
Sin Pew
Dakini Rising
253
|
Posted - 2013.09.18 13:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Disastro wrote:From my own perspective, as someone who did a lot of high sec griefing when i started eve, i have a different solution. One that will actually work.... if your friend will actually follow the advice.
First of all, war decking griefers will never get rid of griefers. That is what they want you to do. They want to be able to freely kill you in high sec with no consequences. If they had any reason to fear you or your friend they would not be griefing in the first place. If you war deck them you will never be rid of them.
Second, griefers are looking for 1. tears 2. kill mails 3. loot . In this order. Deny them these things and they will get bored and move on to someone else. Supply these things to them and they will not leave you alone until you do deny them these things by quitting eve altogether.
Solution: Deny them these three things. How? There are various ways to do this including:
1. Moving far away in eve. If they are in caldari space griefing you then move to Amarr space or minnie space. Somewhere far away.
2. Any time you see them in local stay docked and go watch tv. Let them stew waiting for you while your toon sits in station. They can enjoy watching eve go by while you are watching netflix. Whatever. In the end they will get tired of waiting while you are doing something entirely different.
3. Do not spend money hiring mercs. High sec mercs are worthless. The best of these losers camp jita 24/7. The rest are worse. And to be honest giving the griefers other free targets for them to shoot at is almost as bad as giving them your corpies to shoot at.
4. Petitioning is worthless unless they have actually violated a specific term of EULA. Any other complaint will get ignored. That's pretty much spot on, I would only add one thing, because it's even better to really **** off those idiots: Use the game mechanisms against them. Ruin their fun and they'll soon switch to less challenging targets. "haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator." |
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