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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
875
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Posted - 2013.09.25 06:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
Darling Hassasin wrote:Caleidascope wrote:Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:Isn't the Typhoon / Fleet Typhoon meant to be good too now? Typhoon has two bonuses to missiles. Fleet Typhoon has still old style split weapon systems and split bonuses. Typhoon works great now, no need to waste isk on Fleet Typhoon. Two issues with this statement, (a) to apply max dps with a phoon (and that means most DPS of any med-long range capable BS ingame) you need a crapton of damage and application mods and a tiny bit of tank, thus TFI helps to make the tank more viable on this gank build. (b) if you are dual or triple boxing like a boss TFI is the best BS out there. No other BS can touch the 1500 dps holly grail with 2 utility slots left for spidering stuff...
I spent way less on my TFI than my Mach and it was faster (or at least as fast) at all non angel missions. It broke the 20mil per tick barrier for less than 1.5 bil, and I didn't have Caldari Navy BCU's either. Its an absolute beast.
After the 15% shield boost update and the fixed NOS, I am sure you could make one for <1 billion total that's just pimpsauce.
Quote:whether you use the other two slots for bonused artilleries or drone control units for sentries, its gonna be a top pve ganker.
Drone link augmenter and NOS. I like your fit though, I went armor on mine at first too. It was particularly nice at killing Sansha's like that. Eve is Real |
Beelzebozo
Starless and BB
0
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Posted - 2013.09.25 07:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote: Drone link augmenter and NOS. I like your fit though, I went armor on mine at first too. It was particularly nice at killing Sansha's like that..
Shield tanking just seems hard for this ship since you really want a dual painter with missiles, especially if you use Fury missiles. But i suppose if you went with a pithum a-type medium + invulnerability field, that'd be sufficient tank for any mission with the gank you'd get from having 3 BCS + 3 DDA's + dual painter.
Cipher Jones wrote:The Mach is great at all Angel missions. Nothing beats it in completion time, not even the Vargur. Its also great against Damsel In distress & Gone berserk. I have got 20 mil bounty ticks vs Sansha's with it in "9/10ths of a wormhole". Its better than a vanilla Typhoon or Raven at every mission, really it is. TFI Navy raven, RS, NM and quite a few others are much faster for the non angel missions however. It sucks against Serpentis and Guristas. Its Great against the non tracking disrupting Sansha's missions. Not sure how many there are. I use an Armageddon in Amarr space.
I'll take your word for it about Mach. I've never flown one but to me it looks like a tempest with an extra gun, and nobody runs angel missions with tempest. Also its bonuses are meant for autocannons, and again, never met a guy who runs missions well with an AC boat. I did use an artillery maelstrom for a long while as I skilled minmatar before getting caldari bs 5. It was a a passable mission runner but definitely not as good as vanilla raven. This was a while back though so maybe they've buffed artilleries significantly since then.
I feel like the top mission runners are probably Fleet Typhoon, Golem, and Navy Dominix, with RNI, dominix and typhoon trailing in second tier, and vanilla raven/others following that. I think people see ships like Abaddon and Machariel and get blinded by the absolute dps, when in practice that dps is never gonna happen until you get right in their face, which as we know takes time. |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
561
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Posted - 2013.09.25 21:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
Beelzebozo wrote:[Typhoon Fleet Issue]
Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Racial Hardener X2 Ballistic Control System II x2 Capacitor Power Relay II
100mn Afterburner II pwnage painter x2 Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II
Cruise Missile Launcher II x6 Drone Control Unit I x2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Bouncer I x5 Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
My sentry skills are sorely lacking and this still beats the hell out of a Navy Raven, I suspect once I have t2 drones it will be a top runner. It's tempting to use bonused artilleries instead of DLAs but I think that really hurts the potential of this ship,
I must commend you on fitting drone control units, I stupidly fit drone link augmentors :p
On a less sarcastic note, that is quite a cheap fit. I wouldn't be able to resist putting a faction (not fed/serp) or deadspace EANM on it. Also, as this is a mission runner (and Angel has been specifically mentioned, which leads to high Min and Gal standings generally speaking) - I'd run the gallente arc once and get a Black eagle drone augmentor - 1 of those, plus maxed drone range skills gives you an 86km drone control range. I think with that, you can fre up that 2nd slot for a NOS/gun/tractor/remote repair for sentries.
On to the drones: why mix bouncers with hammer/hobs? Why not warriors and valkyries, or garde/wardens and hammer/hobs?
While you skill up to T2 sentry - for a modest 2.5 million per drone, (12.5 million total), you can upgrade to republic fleet bouncers. These have a lot of HP, and you shouldn't be losing them - they have better tracking (better than even T2), and better damage (than T1, not T2). 12.5 mill is worth the extra applied damage, IMO.
Do you really need the capacitor control circuit? I almost always use a PDU II instead, but in this case, I'd be tempted to go for more gank, and use a 3rd BCU instead.
Beelzebozo wrote:I'll take your word for it about Mach. I've never flown one but to me it looks like a tempest with an extra gun, and nobody runs angel missions with tempest. Also its bonuses are meant for autocannons, and again, never met a guy who runs missions well with an AC boat.
Have you seen the falloff on arty? the bonus works just as well for them. T2 1400mm arties are actually the cheapest guns to shoot in terms of ISK/hour, only using T2 or faction ammo (cheaper than lasers!). That bonus allows you to use quake (supposedly close range ammo) and its elevated damage and tracking, against pretty much all enemies in targeting range. - although this works best against angels, for others you may want to switch to faction EMP/Phased Plasma
The mach also has speed on its side, which allows you to minimize traversal. (requires active piloting...) Oh, and don't forget, the mach can field more drones than a Pest. (if sitting stationary, then you can deploy 4 sentries, and still have a flight of lights)
The Mach hits a lot harder, and can clear a room significantly faster, than a tempest/tempest fleet issue. There's no projectile BS that's even close to it. |
Beelzebozo
Starless and BB
0
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Posted - 2013.09.26 04:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Beelzebozo wrote:[Typhoon Fleet Issue]
Large Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Racial Hardener X2 Ballistic Control System II x2 Capacitor Power Relay II
100mn Afterburner II pwnage painter x2 Cap Recharger II Sensor Booster II
Cruise Missile Launcher II x6 Drone Control Unit I x2
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Bouncer I x5 Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
My sentry skills are sorely lacking and this still beats the hell out of a Navy Raven, I suspect once I have t2 drones it will be a top runner. It's tempting to use bonused artilleries instead of DLAs but I think that really hurts the potential of this ship, I must commend you on fitting drone control units, I stupidly fit drone link augmentors :p On a less sarcastic note, that is quite a cheap fit. I wouldn't be able to resist putting a faction (not fed/serp) or deadspace EANM on it. Also, as this is a mission runner (and Angel has been specifically mentioned, which leads to high Min and Gal standings generally speaking) - I'd run the gallente arc once and get a Black eagle drone augmentor - 1 of those, plus maxed drone range skills gives you an 86km drone control range. I think with that, you can fre up that 2nd slot for a NOS/gun/tractor/remote repair for sentries. On to the drones: why mix bouncers with hammer/hobs? Why not warriors and valkyries, or garde/wardens and hammer/hobs? While you skill up to T2 sentry - for a modest 2.5 million per drone, (12.5 million total), you can upgrade to republic fleet bouncers. These have a lot of HP, and you shouldn't be losing them - they have better tracking (better than even T2), and better damage (than T1, not T2). 12.5 mill is worth the extra applied damage, IMO. Do you really need the capacitor control circuit? I almost always use a PDU II instead, but in this case, I'd be tempted to go for more gank, and use a 3rd BCU instead. Beelzebozo wrote:I'll take your word for it about Mach. I've never flown one but to me it looks like a tempest with an extra gun, and nobody runs angel missions with tempest. Also its bonuses are meant for autocannons, and again, never met a guy who runs missions well with an AC boat. Have you seen the falloff on arty? the bonus works just as well for them. T2 1400mm arties are actually the cheapest guns to shoot in terms of ISK/hour, only using T2 or faction ammo (cheaper than lasers!). That bonus allows you to use quake (supposedly close range ammo) and its elevated damage and tracking, against pretty much all enemies in targeting range. - although this works best against angels, for others you may want to switch to faction EMP/Phased Plasma The mach also has speed on its side, which allows you to minimize traversal. (requires active piloting...) Oh, and don't forget, the mach can field more drones than a Pest. (if sitting stationary, then you can deploy 4 sentries, and still have a flight of lights) The Mach hits a lot harder, and can clear a room significantly faster, than a tempest/tempest fleet issue. There's no projectile BS that's even close to it.
Touche on the Drone Control Unit typo, i'll counter with your capacitor control unit typo.
Re: the capacitor power relay + cap recharger + cpc, yeah thats ugly that I had to fit all those to get a >5 minute tank. I've run enough missions with this build in the past few days that I can definitely say you could probably do without all that tank, as you can clear rooms fast enough that its not necessary. Probably in the craziest full aggro room missions you'll want them though. Re: a 3rd BCU, probably fitting a DDA would be better in terms of raw dps, but thats not dps that you can bring to the enemy 100% of the time so it's a tough call.
Re: faction stuff, I generally avoid posting deadspace/faction stuff in fittings where they aren't 100% necessary. It will always be true that you can make a good thing better by sinking isk into it. You could certainly fit a deadspace repper with 300 mil and remove a hardener or cap module for more gank.
I don't doubt that the Machariel beats all projectile based ships, but I doubt the efficacy of projectiles at running missions, especially artillery which is the lowest dps gun in eve. I can't imagine theres much the machariel can do that a decked out rail or beam laser boat couldn't do better, besides the fact that it can change damage types. And regarding speed, I can't argue with you there, it's even faster than typhoon, and typhoon's speed is why I think it is superior to raven for running missions. |
Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
117
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Posted - 2013.09.26 13:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Josilin du Guesclin wrote:The CNR doesn't need the second painter, due to it's explosion radius bonus. The RNI does need the second painter. 2 x Faction TPs is optimal for 1 shoting just about everything, Cruiser and under. 1 TP = 2nd salvo needed. If it needs two, counting its hull bonus, the SNI is way inferior, because it will need three or more.
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Mike Whiite
Cupid Stunts. The Wolfpack Nexus
221
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Posted - 2013.09.27 12:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
More to do with isk and play style than anything else.
I love my SNI.
It kills frigates and cruisers with one volly just as much as a turret ship.
It needs a lot of skill and switching ammo but it works.
The reason I fly an SNI over the other ships is it's tank in combination with not to much need on micro management, and less need for hyper attention (I'll do PvP if I can divert my complete attention to EVE)
As a father of young kids there are plenty of times I need to leave the PC for the kids or other stuff, an SNI makes that easier, Rattle Snake also has a great tank but you'll loose drones.
Internet disconections are less painfull in a SNI (also Because of its Tank and no drones)
It's less likely to be ganked than most of the other ships you mentioned. (RNI are the easier targets with simular mods)
Then there is the mission time.
Lab rats calculated that the Mach is faster, problem is we aren't in a lab, we step away from our pc to get drinks food ect ect.
It's not that the Mach takes hours quarters of hours or even 10 minutes on a mission I dounbt it will be more than 1 if both pay equal attention.
The Mach is more expensive so before you get any revenue from that investment even if you are a lab rat you need to run quite few missions and atlest have the same bladder capacity to make the proffit.
though that doesn't mean the other ships suck, but for me the SNI has the most advantages.
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mama guru
Thundercats The Initiative.
152
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Posted - 2013.09.28 05:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
By Winter Marauders will be the kings of BS PVE anyway. So why invest in a Mach/RNI before the inevitable price crash? ______
EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak. |
Twisted Chick
9
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Posted - 2013.09.28 07:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
SNI is what I use for L4s and I've used the Rattlesnake before too but I don't care much for drone boats, but in your case a RS would be best. Title: She who hunts Pandas
I Heard there was Pandas around here? You have Pandas? Give me your Pandas. |
John Ratcliffe
sausy sausages
225
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Posted - 2013.09.28 08:52:00 -
[39] - Quote
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:John Ratcliffe wrote:Josilin du Guesclin wrote:The CNR doesn't need the second painter, due to it's explosion radius bonus. The RNI does need the second painter. 2 x Faction TPs is optimal for 1 shoting just about everything, Cruiser and under. 1 TP = 2nd salvo needed. If it needs two, counting its hull bonus, the SNI is way inferior, because it will need three or more.
THE SNI is inferior. It has the same DPS on paper, but it falls way behind on application. It has a better tank by miles though.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Verity Sovereign
Sovereign Fleet Tax Shelter
563
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 09:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote:I love my SNI.
It kills frigates and cruisers with one volly just as much as a turret ship.
My turret boats don't need a full volley.
With a mach, I only need 1 1400mm to fire, same with a nightmare and a tachyon beam. Turret boats can often kill 3-4 frigs per volley. |
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Josilin du Guesclin
University of Caille Gallente Federation
123
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Posted - 2013.09.28 10:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
mama guru wrote:By Winter Marauders will be the kings of BS PVE anyway. So why invest in a Mach/RNI before the inevitable price crash? I bought my CNR before the current price bubble. I should have bought more, for resale.
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Yverlyn Outamon
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.09.28 22:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:mama guru wrote:By Winter Marauders will be the kings of BS PVE anyway. So why invest in a Mach/RNI before the inevitable price crash? I bought my CNR before the current price bubble. I should have bought more, for resale.
QFT seeing the failtrain that is the Marauder mk2 |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
205
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Posted - 2013.09.29 04:11:00 -
[43] - Quote
You can't say there is a best as it's about what you want to deal with...........but one sticks out as the most god mode if you max it and that is Rattlesnake. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
879
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
Yverlyn Outamon wrote:Josilin du Guesclin wrote:mama guru wrote:By Winter Marauders will be the kings of BS PVE anyway. So why invest in a Mach/RNI before the inevitable price crash? I bought my CNR before the current price bubble. I should have bought more, for resale. QFT seeing the failtrain that is the Marauder mk2
THey must have changed the meaning of QFT. Googling now...
Eve is Real |
John Ratcliffe
sausy sausages
225
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 09:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
Pretty sure it's always been Quoted For Truth... Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
527
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Posted - 2013.09.29 10:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Pretty sure it's always been Quoted For Truth...
And it's absolutely accurate |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
1359
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 20:24:00 -
[47] - Quote
I changed from a Navy Domi to a regular Domi with Sentry Drones, why waste money buying ammo? This is not a signature. |
Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
337
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Posted - 2013.09.29 21:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I changed from a Navy Domi to a regular Domi with Sentry Drones, why waste money buying ammo?
I was a great Navy Domi fit as well :( |
Maethilar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.09.29 22:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
My biggest concern about drones i'ts the aggro management. If you loose a drone or have to scoop it the DPS will drop. How much sentry aggro management is a problem? |
Cage Man
267
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Posted - 2013.09.29 22:14:00 -
[50] - Quote
Maethilar wrote:My biggest concern about drones i'ts the aggro management. If you loose a drone or have to scoop it the DPS will drop. How much sentry aggro management is a problem? Managing Sentry drones is not that bad, you can put a medium shield rep in your highs and you can keep them alive without loosing dps.
The thick plottens... CCP, When can my crane get its black paint job back?? |
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Fia Magrath
The Clown Inquisition
16
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Posted - 2013.09.30 00:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
Cant beat the golem. As a paper dps platform its pretty much the same as your other options, in "reality" its uniquely suited for utilizing torpedos which have less overkill and faster switching rate, shaving off just enough to put it on top. More importantly it has a huge cargo bay(which will be fully utilized in some missions), uses half the ammo(saves roughly 0.5-1m per mission) and can effectively loot+salvage as you shoot due to its tractor bonus and utility highs. Putting all of those together makes it better than all the other ships, not by much.. but still, better. |
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