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Troy Tyrion Lanister
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
0
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Posted - 2013.09.22 14:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've wondered why there isn't a "savings bank" since profits on ISK seem easy to come by, i ran into minevest recently. Is legitimate? It looks like it is. Are there other, similar corporations / enterprises ?
thanks for your time in advance. |
flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
1425
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Posted - 2013.09.22 15:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Troy Tyrion Lanister wrote:I've wondered why there isn't a "savings bank" since profits on ISK seem easy to come by, i ran into minevest recently. Is legitimate? It looks like it is. Are there other, similar corporations / enterprises ? thanks for your time in advance.
Google ebank and dbank for a starters and you will see why there are no ''saving banks'' .
Or you could invest a few B with that minivest and find out yourself why there are no saving banks .
I'd think the last option is the best one because the best school allways is one that let's you learn it ''the hard way'' .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Troy Tyrion Lanister
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
0
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Posted - 2013.09.22 16:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think maybe your misunderstanding my post. (and i did google it, comes up with nothing related to eve really, at least not relevant)
I personally can make say 5% on my money in a short time. Surely a large enterprise can scale that by a huge number.
Bank of America at the end of my street is a savings bank (among other things) no clue what your getting at really.
Other than "its a scam". Not saying your wrong, i'm just not seeing any reasoning.
Probably a third of the people reading this post could offer 20% a month to people on their money and make more than that, i dont see why a corp couldnt do that en masse. I just would rather not bust my ass to do it if i had the option. |
Sorao Soreen
Section 496
11
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Posted - 2013.09.22 16:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
there is nothign to stop them other then the fact that every other time its happened somone has walked off with billions. oher then grendel who is still going strong
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Troy Tyrion Lanister
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
0
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Posted - 2013.09.22 16:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sorao Soreen wrote:there is nothign to stop them other then the fact that every other time its happened somone has walked off with billions. oher then grendel who is still going strong
isnt this the same thing as investors that give a guy say a 10 billion loan and expect interest payments? im not seeing the difference. Its just a question of crediblity / trust between the lender /borrower. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1054
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Posted - 2013.09.22 20:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Apart from personality there are three big risk factors with investments: investment size, investment duration and amount of work required to fulfill the investment's terms.
Banks surpass most other investment opportunities in all three categories by orders of magnitude. 3
Once you open a bank you will find it hard to stop the torrent of ISK flowing into your coffers and what may initially look like a blessing will soon turn into a veritable curse.
Massive workload leads to risky investments, risky investments lead to big failures, big failures lead to a ponzi scheme, a ponzi scheme leads to collapse and scam. |
Rthor
Smugglers Inc.
5
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Posted - 2013.09.22 20:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
If isk is easy to come by why would anybody good at this game ask for isk from other people and then be obligated to let them in on good investment ideas and force himself to have to file all these reports and deal with investors asking questions?
Should not you ask yourself why is this guy asking you for your isk if he has good ideas on how to make isk? Such a guy would not need your isk and your bother. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1054
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Posted - 2013.09.22 21:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
There have been four notable banks in EVE so far (not counting BMBE) - EIB, FuryBank, EBANK and DBANK.
EIB: probably a Ponzi scheme from the start
FuryBank: lost assets during the fall of Fountain, lost access to assets in Fountain, lost its previous business model of supplying POS fuel to Fountain, owner had two (?) private mothership losses in the same timeframe - initially Fury Trader seemed set on trying to recover from these blows but eventually he went the scam route instead. The end of 0.0-related investments on MD.
EBANK: lost significant assets in failed investments (KIA). CEO had real-life issues and decided to rather convert the ISK into $$$ than wait for the full realization of just how broke the bank really was (full audit of the bank's finances had been scheduled for some time) and try to fix the mess. During liquidation of the remaining parts it became clear that the bank's IT manager had also prepared a theft by granting himself account balances without depositing corresponding ISK.
DBANK: turned from a two man operation into a one man operation; took on more commitments than it could handle; Shortly after DBANK had suffered a major theft by an employee (Xabier), Shar accidentally the bank's central database (as he was afraid that customer details might be exposed through a mistake in server configuration). Owner seemed initially willing to reconstruct the database and reopen the bank. Eventually he went the scam route instead - probably after realizing that on top of having lost their account/transaction database (with no recent backups available) the bank had been broke for quite some time and there was no realistic way to recover.
There's a lesson to be learned here. Banks in EVE don't work. Trust isn't even the core issue. |
Logical Chaos
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
57
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Posted - 2013.09.22 21:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Troy Tyrion Lanister wrote:I personally can make say 5% on my money in a short time. Surely a large enterprise can scale that by a huge number.
This is actually insanely incorrect. Usually it's the other way round: It is very easy to make profit on a small amount, but try keeping the same percentage with billions is a different story (and usually involves manipulation which is much more risky). |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
726
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Posted - 2013.09.22 21:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'll put it simply from my experience. Banks can work. They just aren't worth the effort to the people in a position to run them, with the current available game mechanics and EULA.
I run my own small version of those old style banks. The difference is, I have very strict restrictions on isk that comes in and from who. So I control my size every step of the way. I have fun running the bank, but that's because I keep it at a size that it's not a second job.
EDIT:
A long time ago I and a small group of people almost opened a bank and even had a beta run. We ended up scrapping it, instead of launching it. That was 6 months of work up till then.
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Literally Space Moses
Perkone Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2013.09.22 23:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
The concept isn't a scam, no. I mean, this one is pretty clearly a scam, but there could be non-bank scams.
Ask yourself this: is ~20% interest a month for doing absolutely nothing to good to be true?
And why would this be not a scam? There is zero reason to believe that this corp is trustworthy. |
The Fukuzawa
New Eden Trade Group
5
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Posted - 2013.09.23 04:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Minevest will turn out to be Phaser Inc 2.0, see link to article on evenews: http://evenews24.com/2011/08/14/the-1-trillion-isk-ponzi-phaser-inc-speaks/
Supposedly netted a trillion isk, and the way they operated and what they offer is exactly what Minevest offers.
You deserve to lose isk if you invest with them lol. |
flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
1427
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Posted - 2013.09.23 07:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
And when asked for an API or something else to proove just that it got verry silent.I really doubt they got as much as they claimed , probably only walked off with a small % of that even.
Still free isk is free isk i suppose .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Kethas Protagonist
Protagonist Ventures
63
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Posted - 2013.09.23 09:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
A month-old toon (that joined a corp less than an hour after creation, suggesting it's not simply a new player) with no post history starts a thread hawking Phazer 2.0, and nobody calls him out on it? Jeez, the MD immune system isn't what it used to be. |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
72
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Posted - 2013.09.23 09:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kethas Protagonist wrote:A month-old toon (that joined a corp less than an hour after creation, suggesting it's not simply a new player) with no post history starts a thread hawking Phazer 2.0, and nobody calls him out on it? Jeez, the MD immune system isn't what it used to be.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3183745 .
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flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
1439
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Posted - 2013.09.23 09:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kethas Protagonist wrote:A month-old toon (that joined a corp less than an hour after creation, suggesting it's not simply a new player) with no post history starts a thread hawking Phazer 2.0, and nobody calls him out on it? Jeez, the MD immune system isn't what it used to be.
But but ...but he's fcon he CAN'T have any bad intentions .....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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RAW23
232
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Posted - 2013.09.23 12:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Troy Tyrion Lanister wrote:I personally can make say 5% on my money in a short time. Surely a large enterprise can scale that by a huge number. I googled what you said and found some scams but i dont see why the concept is inherently a scam.
Sadly it doesn't work like that. It is easy to make 5% (or 500%) on small amounts but very, very hard to make that on large amounts. Most eve businesses are fairly time intensive and you can't just add an indefinite number of new businesses to your portfolio to scale up your business earnings indefinitely unless you have a corresponding indefinite amount of time. There are very, very few businesses that can absorb hundreds of billions in capital with a) a workload that is acceptable, and b) a decent return, partly because there is a huge amount of isk in eve and a great deal of competition for the high volume, low workload markets.
A year or so ago, Tornsoul (who runs a longstanding investment bank with c. 250bil of capital) asked on MD what the largest amount would be that a business plan could return a 1% profit on per month. The best answer was something slightly over 10 trillion but this was achieved through a very active use of only 100bil rather than through using the whole thing. It seems that if you are going to actively manage isk, there comes a point at which the most efficient thing to do is just leave most of it to one side and extract as much profit as you can from a smaller amount.
Which leads to a second point. Since their is little, or even negative, added value in utilising very large amounts of capital over utilising smaller amounts this raises the question as to why any bank manager would want to raise very large amounts and then give most of the profits to his or her customers, rather than raising a much smaller amount and keeping almost all the profit for themself. The return on time invested for a bank manager managing very large sums are exceedingly poor, to the extent that it is a bad economic decision to run a bank in the first place. This obviously leads people to suspect that those who want to run banks intend to profit from them in other ways. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
TornSoul
BIG Insidious Empire
146
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Posted - 2013.09.23 18:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote: Once you open a bank you will find it hard to stop the torrent of ISK flowing into your coffers and what may initially look like a blessing will soon turn into a veritable curse.
^^This
RAW23 wrote: A year or so ago, Tornsoul (who runs a longstanding investment bank with c. 250bil of capital) asked on MD what the largest amount would be that a business plan could return a 1% profit on per month. The best answer was something slightly over 10 trillion but this was achieved through a very active use of only 100bil (earning 100% returns per month, equalling 1% on 10 trillion) rather than through using the whole thing. It seems that if you are going to actively manage isk, there comes a point at which the most efficient thing to do is just leave most of it to one side and extract as much profit as you can from a smaller amount.
^^ Because of that
Org link by yours truly: 1% profit/month glass ceiling ? |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2013.09.24 22:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote: Both EBANK and DBANK tried to limit growth by lowering interest rates - but even at 1.5%/month EBANK got swamped with ISK.
so you said MineVest will fall to same fate with 4.5% interest/week (14.11%/mth)?
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
72
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Posted - 2013.09.25 02:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
unidenify wrote:Vera Algaert wrote: Both EBANK and DBANK tried to limit growth by lowering interest rates - but even at 1.5%/month EBANK got swamped with ISK.
so you said MineVest will fall to same fate with 4.5% interest/week (19.25%/mth)?
No, Minevest is special and they can state whatever interest they feel like, because they won't be paying it out anyway. .
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Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
38
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Posted - 2013.09.26 06:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
100% Legit.
Have had 20b with them for the last 7 weeks. |
RubyPorto
Sniggwaffe WAFFLES.
4221
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Posted - 2013.09.27 21:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
At least their tagline's honest:
Minevest: You Invest it, it's Mine. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
1459
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Posted - 2013.09.27 22:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Kethas Protagonist wrote:A month-old toon (that joined a corp less than an hour after creation, suggesting it's not simply a new player) with no post history starts a thread hawking Phazer 2.0, and nobody calls him out on it? Jeez, the MD immune system isn't what it used to be. But but ...but he's fcon he CAN'T have any bad intentions ..... '
Ran into general newbold in our Alliance channel today , so this confirms that surely people from fcon can't have any bad intentions .
Oddly enough he seemed less pleased with seeing a ''formiliar'' face as me .... might be because i like to catch up on old stories in public channels
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
25
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Posted - 2013.09.28 14:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
flakeys wrote: Ran into general newbold in our Alliance channel today [...]
Ha, that name even chimes a bell for me ... |
flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
1465
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Posted - 2013.09.28 16:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hel O'Ween wrote:flakeys wrote: Ran into general newbold in our Alliance channel today [...]
Ha, that name even chimes a bell for me ...
Yeah was really odd , he did a private convo with me yet my replies to him came in Alliance chat instead of private convo.
Must have been a bug because i certainly didn't want to out him in Alliance channel like that .....
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Regina Gerze
The Trinity Conglomerate Shadow Empire Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.09.28 20:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:100% Legit.
Have had 20b with them for the last 7 weeks.
Okay, I know that's probably a lie...>.> |
X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
95
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Posted - 2013.09.29 03:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Even if you have 20b with them that doesn't make them legit. You give them isk, they write 20 on a screen. Then every week they write a higher number, 21 for example. But you don't actually have the isk, you lost that when you gave it to them, what they're giving you back are increasing amounts of theoretical debt which will never be repaid. |
virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine The Unforgiven Alliance
44
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Posted - 2013.09.29 20:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Has it not gone belly up already? Pyramid building must be slow these days.... |
Sh0plifter
Underworld Initiative
15
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Posted - 2013.09.30 01:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
You posted what I was going to.
Minevest will more then likely turn into this. Seen these in the past and once they cant make the turn over they boost up the advertisement to try to get more income before rolling over and taking everything.
Will it? I cannot guarentee it 100%. Can it? Absolutely, It is EvE Online. Scamming is legit lolol
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:100% Legit.
Have had 20b with them for the last 7 weeks.
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RAW23
253
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Posted - 2013.09.30 16:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
It looks like Jerry has been AWOL far too long. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
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