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APOC UK
APOC Technologies
0
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Posted - 2013.09.25 22:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
So hears my idea.
I think this game has come a long way over the years but one thing that i think has stayed behind the times is the ability for corp members to shoot at each other without putting an official duel in place in advance.
Why is this a problem i hear you all ask?
Well as you know there are many griefers in this game who take advantage of corps who are recruiting,
They get through the security checks somehow and then Bam!!! there goes an expensive ship up in smoke.
I know this has been a feature of the game since its birth to allow corp members to shoot at each other and was meant for the purpose of testing load-outs or corp tournaments which are all good fun.
I left the game for a while and when i came back started up my old corporation and started a new crew. We have tried to be careful who we recruit but have now had 3 characters shoot down our corp mates for fun before leaving or being kicked from the corp. Now admittedly the first one duped my 2nd in command who didn't do any background checking but the second 2 appeared OK. full API keys nothing majorly wrong i had a bad feeling but we decided to give them a shot after we had a long chat to them on our TS Server. they worked so hard to convince us that they were honest decent people and i think that's just taking it too far.
I believe this to be an abuse of what was meant for good fun and believe that shooting at corp members should only be allowed through a duel. wanting to see what everyone elses opinions are related to this issue and get some developer feedback also.
Look forward to your responses
Regards
Apoc UK |
Posn Akiga
APOC Technologies
1
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Posted - 2013.09.25 22:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
i support this message |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1558
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Posted - 2013.09.25 22:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Posn Akiga wrote:i support this message I am sure you do.... Pro tip hide your corporation and alliance information when trying to support a corporates thread.
On topic, no. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Gigan Amilupar
Legion of Darkwind
10
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Posted - 2013.09.25 22:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Show us on the doll where the AWOXer touched you. |
Olivia Phoenix
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.09.25 22:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Corp members CAN SHOOT EACH OTHER? WTF... Couldn't even imagine a crap like dat... Geez. Now I think I will live a lonely life after gettin known that feature.
On topic: as soon as we got duels I see no reason to keep this thingy up anymoar. CCP! I know ya like to give ppl a good opportunity to be bitches. But THIS is too much I guess... |
Brutal Kecks
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Got your shiny 40 bill worth Golem looted by pros? Hahaha, that's the way it's ment to be played. One day suiciders would loot it anyways so HTFU. Suck it or f**** it! But even though I love that kind of giggles, it makes me paranoid especially when I fly with some guys that I know. Right because I know that they are sneaky and got no principles. So I can't say that removing this feature would hurt my fun, will make me more light on the go even maybe. |
Orakkus
Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad.
189
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
APOC UK wrote:So hears my idea.
I think this game has come a long way over the years but one thing that i think has stayed behind the times is the ability for corp members to shoot at each other without putting an official duel in place in advance.
Why is this a problem i hear you all ask?
Well as you know there are many griefers in this game who take advantage of corps who are recruiting,
They get through the security checks somehow and then Bam!!! there goes an expensive ship up in smoke.
I know this has been a feature of the game since its birth to allow corp members to shoot at each other and was meant for the purpose of testing load-outs or corp tournaments which are all good fun.
Maybe initially that was the case, but it has long developed into both a griefer mechanics as well as a major type of sabotage and spying for in game corporations and alliances. The fact that such a minor change would have far, far reaching implications that go way beyone new recruit hiring. I sympathize with you, but the situation no longer relates to just small time AWOXing.
APOC UK wrote: I left the game for a while and when i came back started up my old corporation and started a new crew. We have tried to be careful who we recruit but have now had 3 characters shoot down our corp mates for fun before leaving or being kicked from the corp. Now admittedly the first one duped my 2nd in command who didn't do any background checking but the second 2 appeared OK. full API keys nothing majorly wrong i had a bad feeling but we decided to give them a shot after we had a long chat to them on our TS Server. they worked so hard to convince us that they were honest decent people and i think that's just taking it too far.
Full API keys are just part of the vetting process. There are quite a few more steps that a person like you can take before you bring someone into your corp. If you wish, you can e-mail me and I will walk you through what other ways you can vet prospective recruits. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
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Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
399
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Eve is full of awoxers, you got what you deserved, now make him regret it and hunt the awoxer down, make it so bad for him that he's forced to live in Aridia until he biomasses himself and starts a new toon. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
APOC UK
APOC Technologies
4
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Orakkus wrote: Maybe initially that was the case, but it has long developed into both a griefer mechanics as well as a major type of sabotage and spying for in game corporations and alliances. The fact that such a minor change would have far, far reaching implications that go way beyone new recruit hiring. I sympathize with you, but the situation no longer relates to just small time AWOXing.
Full API keys are just part of the vetting process. There are quite a few more steps that a person like you can take before you bring someone into your corp. If you wish, you can e-mail me and I will walk you through what other ways you can vet prospective recruits.
I understand what your saying here, but surely changing the ability to shoot at a corp member is not going to affect alliance and corporation spying? spying is a whole different level which can be used at any point. its the sneaky corp joining then shooting down a corp member i dont like. |
APOC UK
APOC Technologies
4
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Eve is full of awoxers, you got what you deserved, now make him regret it and hunt the awoxer down, make it so bad for him that he's forced to live in Aridia until he biomasses himself and starts a new toon.
I totally agree that we got what we deserved and paid the price and believe me we will get them back when were ready, but i dont believe that this is something we should all have to be weeding out all the time. |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3297
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't support this.
Just because you check someone (via API or interview) it doesn't mean you should be able to automatically trust him/her. The friendly-fire mechanic (or lack of) in corps forces you the player (and the person recruiting) to take extra precautions (safeguarding assets, not bringing out "bling," having some kind of internal security measures, etc) and build real trust that is not mechanically forced.
Plus, having your own corp has a ton of perks. There have to be some downsides too.
If you look at the bigger picture, you'll notice that a corp is not just a social thing in EVE. It is effectively a "declaration" to others that you, and everyone in your corp, has a common interest and can hold your own against others. If one AWOXer is giving you problems, you won't last long in EVE.
edit:
Quote:i dont believe that this is something we should all have to be weeding out all the time. Every group in the game sooner or later deals with this issue and more. It will never end. Nor should it. It would just make the game boring. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
236
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Olivia Phoenix wrote:Corp members CAN SHOOT EACH OTHER? WTF... Couldn't even imagine a crap like dat... Geez. Now I think I will live a lonely life after gettin known that feature.
On topic: as soon as we got duels I see no reason to keep this thingy up anymoar. CCP! I know ya like to give ppl a good opportunity to be bitches. But THIS is too much I guess...
are you going to duel a whole fleet at the same time?
Example: you run aoe like smarties. In the blast radius is reds and corpies. Corpy hits if you didn't declare say 10 duels will wake up gate guns in low or have concord say hi in empire.
Duel was put in place to replace the good ole fashion can flipping setup. Old way was to have both of you in different corps to drop cans and flp them. this a a nicer way to do it. |
Rance Ikari
Resource Kings
0
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
APOC UK wrote:i dont believe that this is something we should all have to be weeding out all the time.
So you just want to be lazy and irresponsible. |
Orakkus
Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad.
189
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
APOC UK wrote: I understand what your saying here, but surely changing the ability to shoot at a corp member is not going to affect alliance and corporation spying? spying is a whole different level which can be used at any point. its the sneaky corp joining then shooting down a corp member i dont like.
It does if you wish to make a pivotal strike against your enemy. Its not such a big deal in null or low-sec alliances, but consider if you wanted to do that to a high-sec alliance. You don't really have many options to do that outside of sneaking a guy in as a trojan horse if all of their combat assets remain in high-sec space. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
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Olivia Phoenix
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.09.25 23:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Duel feature shall be expanded to fleets and also we can have a kind of flag alike the new safety settings system (I mean that green button at the left side of your HUD). So once a person is not flagged, (s)he isn't an eligible target for engaging. |
The Hamilton
Outer Ring Sleeper Collective Illusion of Solitude
54
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Posted - 2013.09.26 00:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
GOD NO! Then you simply cannot surprise AWOX one of your corp members for being a douche at all... Just make better alliances with other corp members in your corp so that you are not on the receiving end. This should be meta game and not yet another safety feature... |
Orakkus
Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad.
189
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Posted - 2013.09.26 00:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Olivia Phoenix wrote:Duel feature shall be expanded to fleets and also we can have a kind of flag alike the new safety settings system (I mean that green button at the left side of your HUD). So once a person is not flagged, (s)he isn't an eligible target for engaging.
And that is the problem. Here's the scenario that this change would no longer allow to happen:
Suppose you and your four man corp are mining in a section of high-sec space. You are a little operation, but you like each other and you all have fun, even if you aren't making much isk.
One day, a much bigger alliance comes into the area and just blitz mines everything. Maybe its not a big deal the first few days, but after a couple weeks you all start getting a little ticked off that there isn't a single roid left. You've tried talking to them and they basically tell you to "HTFU!" For good measure, they wardec you, forcing you to hide out in station for a good week or so. In the end, you are ticked and you want revenge. With the current mechanic you can do the following things:
1 - Wardec them - Which will probably get you wiped again.
2 - Leave - This will expose your transports to ganks, plus it may be very difficult to find a high-sec location that will offer the same benefits.
3 - Join another alliance - But you may not be able to convince your new alliance to wardec them as they see no profit or benefit.
4 - Patiently wait until they allow you to join, then after you gain some trust, stage a coup and wipe out a mining op while also taking out their wallets and extra goodies.
That last one would be severely hampered by your change and since people are jerks, option 4. isn't necessarily a bad plan. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
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Arya Regnar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
212
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Posted - 2013.09.26 02:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Good morning, another "someone awoxed me please don't make me go through all the work to make sure it never happens again" thread?
Another day, another bear crying. Nothing new, move along.
Hey OP, try NPC corps if you want safety, those 12% taxes aren't that high yeah? If you want to be the BOSS in a corp you have to either work for it or watch the corp crumble or die in a blazing fire of trigger happy awoxers.
I remember some dude saying something about how the chance that someone in EVE ruins your day is cornerstone on which it was built.
I like the risk because it makes this game intense, it is intended and will stay.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus Turalyon Alliance
46
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Posted - 2013.09.26 03:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
10 for 10. solid troll OP |
Yolo
Yolo Corp
27
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Posted - 2013.09.26 03:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
I agree that there is no reason why Concord should validate corp members to shoot and kill each other.
If you want to do some testing and shoot each other up, go to test-server and just fly into low-sec, there you can test whatever setups and tactical things you want in all of its forms, need new ships, they market is seeded with toys and gadgets.
And for duels, there is duels.
Running an Eve-Online corporation is harder than running a real life company, at the very least IRL in a normal situation you do not need to screen your recruits to check if they are insane mass-murderer. - since 2003, bitches |
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
125
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Posted - 2013.09.26 03:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1. This is an absolutely stupid feature that does nothing but allow chumps to circumvent hisec rules and grief new players and more PvE and industry minded players. Its the reason all my characters are in 1 man corps with maybe an alt or two. Applications have been disabled to all of my corps. I play instead with a loose group of people that are in similar "solo corps", unified by a chat channel.
CCP should develop a more fine-grained replacement mechanic for mass killing/testing within corps, utilizing the existing safety or duel mechanic. As suggested, set safety to red to allow corp kills. Or have a new duel flag for corp-wide pvp with no timer or target, just set to on or off. |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
55
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Posted - 2013.09.26 03:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
When i first started playing this game i thought that being able to shoot corpies was stupid but the more i played EVE the more i realized that drama is one of the important parts of the game.
While i dont always side with drama i think that removing this mechanic takes too much interest factor out of the game. |
Gigan Amilupar
Legion of Darkwind
13
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Posted - 2013.09.26 04:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:+1. This is an absolutely stupid feature that does nothing but allow chumps to circumvent hisec rules and grief new players and more PvE and industry minded players. Its the reason all my characters are in 1 man corps with maybe an alt or two. Applications have been disabled to all of my corps. I play instead with a loose group of people that are in similar "solo corps", unified by a chat channel.
CCP should develop a more fine-grained replacement mechanic for mass killing/testing within corps, utilizing the existing safety or duel mechanic. As suggested, set safety to red to allow corp kills. Or have a new duel flag for corp-wide pvp with no timer or target, just set to on or off.
Look, the reality of the situation is this, while getting AWOXed most certainly sucks, it is a part of the game. Especially the shooting corp-mates part. The freedom to make that choice, to shoot at another player, anywhere, with CONCORD being the immediate consequence, and follow up being the responsibility of those affected is part of what makes EvE, well, EvE. It's supposed to be a "free" universe where players can act how they choose to. And as much as getting sand kicked in your face in the sandbox must suck, I don't think I would want to play a game that told me "No, the universe is not going to let you do that or deal with any consequences". And while that might make me sound like a jerk who supports AWOXing, I don't support it. But I do support the freedom to AWOX because the freedom itself gives meaning to the game. That is why this recommendation is never going to happen. The universe is dangerous. Make friends, fly safe, and take responsibility for the security of both yourself and those you'd fly with. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
466
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Posted - 2013.09.26 04:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gigan Amilupar wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:+1. This is an absolutely stupid feature that does nothing but allow chumps to circumvent hisec rules and grief new players and more PvE and industry minded players. Its the reason all my characters are in 1 man corps with maybe an alt or two. Applications have been disabled to all of my corps. I play instead with a loose group of people that are in similar "solo corps", unified by a chat channel.
CCP should develop a more fine-grained replacement mechanic for mass killing/testing within corps, utilizing the existing safety or duel mechanic. As suggested, set safety to red to allow corp kills. Or have a new duel flag for corp-wide pvp with no timer or target, just set to on or off. Look, the reality of the situation is this, while getting AWOXed most certainly sucks, it is a part of the game. Especially the shooting corp-mates part. The freedom to make that choice, to shoot at another player, anywhere, with CONCORD being the immediate consequence, and follow up being the responsibility of those affected is part of what makes EvE, well, EvE. It's supposed to be a "free" universe where players can act how they choose to. And as much as getting sand kicked in your face in the sandbox must suck, I don't think I would want to play a game that told me "No, the universe is not going to let you do that or deal with any consequences". And while that might make me sound like a jerk who supports AWOXing, I don't support it. But I do support the freedom to AWOX because the freedom itself gives meaning to the game. That is why this recommendation is never going to happen. The universe is dangerous. Make friends, fly safe, and take responsibility for the security of both yourself and those you'd fly with.
This isn't the same as the other freedoms the game gives you. You are free to blow people up in high sec but it typically comes at a cost of Concord and standing, war costs, possible loss, and many other possible costs.
Awoxing is nothing more than free kills at no cost and actually goes against what so many people b!tch about, which is risk vs reward.
Awoxing is a very bright example of where risk vs reward is not applying. People always say that if you want more Isk, you gotta take risks. Well, if you want pvp, the. You should definitely have to put yourself at risk. Awoxing breaks this and actually does even worse by allowing player to pad the kill boards with kills that weren't earned in a manner that is respectable.
I have no problem with war decs and suicide ganks, but this is rediculous.
Look, you can get into a corp and get all the intel you need. Hell, you can even get them to link their fits. The. , you can give that Intel to your corp and gank their shiny ship at a gate.
This is a good tactic and is something that can be used multiple times, as they won't know you gave intel. However, it still comes with a cost. This is Eve and this is how the rest of the game works. Why is it so many people support awoxing which is a blatant slap in the face to this? |
Posn Akiga
APOC Technologies
2
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Posted - 2013.09.26 07:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Posn Akiga wrote:i support this message I am sure you do.... Pro tip hide your corporation and alliance information when trying to support a corporates thread. On topic, no.
Just saying i support my corpmate, it was my way of bumping the post. |
Mr Barbeque
Mayhem and Ruin Point Blank Alliance
8
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Posted - 2013.09.26 08:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote: [clip]Awoxing is nothing more than free kills at no cost and actually goes against what so many people b!tch about, which is risk vs reward. There is a cost. Said awoxer has to put in an application, and get accepted into your corporation. That takes effort and some skill, hopefully. That is a cost.
Whats really being complained about is that some have been tricked, don't like it, and are projecting blame upon the game for the result. This is the definition of a HTFU situation. You aren't helpless, there are steps you can take. Ultimately you have to accept them for them to get that green star. So really they just successfully managed to get you off your guard. Compare this to faction warfare. People can, and do join an allied or the same faction in an attempt to catch others off guard. The only defense a militia pilot has is to be on their guard They cant deny access, only trust.
I'm not a fan of awoxing or awoxers, its skeezy and dishonorable. But this is EVE, everyone has a right to be skeezy and dishonorable. Recruiting |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
610
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Posted - 2013.09.26 09:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
Posn Akiga wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Posn Akiga wrote:i support this message I am sure you do.... Pro tip hide your corporation and alliance information when trying to support a corporates thread. On topic, no. Just saying i support my corpmate, it was my way of bumping the post.
Bumping 5 minutes after creation...yeah alright Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
APOC UK
APOC Technologies
12
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Posted - 2013.09.26 09:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:Posn Akiga wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Posn Akiga wrote:i support this message I am sure you do.... Pro tip hide your corporation and alliance information when trying to support a corporates thread. On topic, no. Just saying i support my corpmate, it was my way of bumping the post. Bumping 5 minutes after creation...yeah alright
Look he's just voicing his support so lets not flame grill him for it ok?
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1557
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Posted - 2013.09.26 10:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Absolutely not. If I couldn't awox, then I couldn't blow up my corpies' carebear exploration boats and get that fat payout and totally blingy medal from my CEO.
Remember kids, awoxing is fun. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
APOC UK
APOC Technologies
12
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Posted - 2013.09.26 15:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Absolutely not. If I couldn't awox, then I couldn't blow up my corpies' carebear exploration boats and get that fat payout and totally blingy medal from my CEO.
Remember kids, awoxing is fun.
very grown up |
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