Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
462
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 00:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
This should not be allowed. You should fall under the same rules as anyone who kills. Immediate destruction in high sec by CONCORD and loss of standing.
Just because I work for a corporation does not give me the right to go around killing its members. The daily news around the world should be a sign of this.
I am not asking for a change to any specific mechanics of corp life, only that they have the same engagement rules as everyone else.
However, the one thing I do propose is that if you turn your security lock to red, then anyone in corp may attack you; however, this will red tag them as well, allowing them to be attacked by anyone in corp. Also, it will display in corp chat somehow that your security flag is red.
This means that in-corp pvp is still possible with a simple click of the security setting. |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
607
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 00:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
There's already a thread about this mate with the idea that "Duelling" be used instead.
Not a supporter of it TBH but then I have blown up my own ship "over testing" with a corp mate. Was a late night you might say ha ha.
EDIT: This was and is allowed as people in your Corp should be trusted (and vetted prior to joining) and is rather handy for testing fits without the need to log on to SiSi and export fits etc. I think it should stay but thats my opinion. Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Arya Regnar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
212
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 02:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maximus Aerelius wrote:There's already a thread about this mate with the idea that "Duelling" be used instead.
Not a supporter of it TBH but then I have blown up my own ship "over testing" with a corp mate. Was a late night you might say ha ha.
EDIT: This was and is allowed as people in your Corp should be trusted (and vetted prior to joining) and is rather handy for testing fits without the need to log on to SiSi and export fits etc. I think it should stay but thats my opinion. I'm gona go with Max on this one. Trusting your corpmates is the most important thing in eve.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
463
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 02:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Maximus Aerelius wrote:There's already a thread about this mate with the idea that "Duelling" be used instead.
Not a supporter of it TBH but then I have blown up my own ship "over testing" with a corp mate. Was a late night you might say ha ha.
EDIT: This was and is allowed as people in your Corp should be trusted (and vetted prior to joining) and is rather handy for testing fits without the need to log on to SiSi and export fits etc. I think it should stay but thats my opinion. I'm gona go with Max on this one. Trusting your corpmates is the most important thing in eve.
You trust your corp mates to help you in pvp, you trust corp mates not to steal corp goods and Isk , you trust your corp mates to not give intel to the enemy, you trust you corp mates not to offline POS modules, etc etc etc.
These are common issue you could face in the real world. However, if an employee walks into your place of business and kills people, they are still subject to the rules of law. This is no different. A corp is a corporation, IE a business. It is not a get out of jail free card for easy kills.
Also, the only people that would be against stopping corp killing are the very people that use it for free and easy kills.
If you want kills, do what everyone else does and earn them through suicide ganks and/or low, null, and WH combat.. Or even easier, just war dec them... If they're easy enough to kill in corp, then they should be easy enough to kill with a war dec. |
Ben Houssa
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 05:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:However, if an employee walks into your place of business and kills people, they are still subject to the rules of law. This is no different. A corp is a corporation, IE a business. It is not a get out of jail free card for easy kills.
Also, the only people that would be against stopping corp killing are the very people that use it for free and easy kills.
If you want kills, do what everyone else does and earn them through suicide ganks and/or low, null, and WH combat.. Or even easier, just war dec them... If they're easy enough to kill in corp, then they should be easy enough to kill with a war dec.
It's not intended for "easy killing" but for testing, friendly poking and punishment. The corp is responsible for own policing and many player owned corps do their own policing. If peps kill other without prior consent they get killed in return, finned, expelled from corp and other stuff like that. If members of your own corp give you grief and CEO and other directors don't do squat, that is a good definition for a bad corp so, I'd say, find another corp. Crystal damage information in cargohold Number of jumps info in settled systems
|
Tabris Katz
Kid's Logistics Inc
12
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 06:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Also, the only people that would be against stopping corp killing are the very people that use it for free and easy kills.
I completely disagree with that complete. My corp sets up several pvp tournaments that involving fighting to ship destroyed. Making pvp between corp members a concord offense would destroy this function of our corp. Or we would have to move the tournaments to low sec which would call unwanted attention.
Besides if you and your corp is having trouble with corp killers it sounds like you need to improve your background checks for new pilots. I suggest looking at their killboard, checking their employment history, contacting former ceo's, or requesting API codes from all new recruits. And if it's a new character then you'll just have to understand you're taking a risk (besides they probably won't have enough skill or isk to effective corp killers). All of these actions will help reduce this.
On another note, I just realized that corp killing show up neutral on corp kill boards since it should show up as a loss and a kill. Funny. |
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
610
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 07:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:Maximus Aerelius wrote:There's already a thread about this mate with the idea that "Duelling" be used instead.
Not a supporter of it TBH but then I have blown up my own ship "over testing" with a corp mate. Was a late night you might say ha ha.
EDIT: This was and is allowed as people in your Corp should be trusted (and vetted prior to joining) and is rather handy for testing fits without the need to log on to SiSi and export fits etc. I think it should stay but thats my opinion. I'm gona go with Max on this one. Trusting your corpmates is the most important thing in eve. You trust your corp mates to help you in pvp, you trust corp mates not to steal corp goods and Isk , you trust your corp mates to not give intel to the enemy, you trust you corp mates not to offline POS modules, etc etc etc. These are common issue you could face in the real world. However, if an employee walks into your place of business and kills people, they are still subject to the rules of law. This is no different. A corp is a corporation, IE a business. It is not a get out of jail free card for easy kills. Also, the only people that would be against stopping corp killing are the very people that use it for free and easy kills. If you want kills, do what everyone else does and earn them through suicide ganks and/or low, null, and WH combat.. Or even easier, just war dec them... If they're easy enough to kill in corp, then they should be easy enough to kill with a war dec.
While I agree with all of the above this is the serious business of internet spaceships...RL doesn't mean squat and if someone commits a crime in RL you can't go and return him to the earth can you? I'm sorry but I'm all for keeping the "Corp on Corp" functionality and not because I want easy kills. Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up! |
Mr Barbeque
Mayhem and Ruin Point Blank Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 07:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lets make concord function like real world cops! When a crime is committed outside of a concord system someone has to report it to them. Then they fly with normal warp and jump speeds to the system of the crime to investigate, as if leaving the police station. Then they can speak to the complainant about the incident and investigate from there. You can file charges against the accused and he can have his fair day in court! Because concordokken spawning instantly to bap the offender with the **** stick is unrealistic!
Backpedaling your logic yet? Recruiting |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
293
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 07:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Not supported.
I "real world" test fits fairly often with the help of corp mates this would make that impossible. NBSI shall be the whole of the Law |
Arya Regnar
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
214
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 11:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:
You trust your corp mates to help you in pvp, you trust corp mates not to steal corp goods and Isk , you trust your corp mates to not give intel to the enemy, you trust you corp mates not to offline POS modules, etc etc etc.
These are common issue you could face in the real world. However, if an employee walks into your place of business and kills people, they are still subject to the rules of law. This is no different. A corp is a corporation, IE a business. It is not a get out of jail free card for easy kills.
Also, the only people that would be against stopping corp killing are the very people that use it for free and easy kills.
If you want kills, do what everyone else does and earn them through suicide ganks and/or low, null, and WH combat.. Or even easier, just war dec them... If they're easy enough to kill in corp, then they should be easy enough to kill with a war dec.
Are you one of those people who want to apply real world morals and ethics to an online game? It's you people who can?t tell the difference between games and reality. You are the one with twisted mentality not us griefers.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
|
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
468
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Look, I personally have not been awoxed, and It's been a long, long time since I was in a corp where someone got awoxed.
That said, I still don't support this as a mechanic of Eve. I personally see it as taking advantage of the system in order to get kills with little to no risks.
Now, do I feel they should add a mechanic so that corps and/or corp members can flag themselves for in corp combat? Absolutely. Whether you leave this as a corp mechanic or an individual mechanic, I personally don't care; But I can't support awoxing with a competent thought.
Edit... One thing that would be cool is that if a corp is at war, then the corp and/or corp members are automatically flagged. So, in this case awoxing could actually be used as a war tactic, and not mindless killing. |
Orakkus
Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad.
189
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Look, I personally have not been awoxed, and It's been a long, long time since I was in a corp where someone got awoxed.
That said, I still don't support this as a mechanic of Eve. I personally see it as taking advantage of the system in order to get kills with little to no risks.
Now, do I feel they should add a mechanic so that corps and/or corp members can flag themselves for in corp combat? Absolutely. Whether you leave this as a corp mechanic or an individual mechanic, I personally don't care; But I can't support awoxing with a competent thought.
Edit... One thing that would be cool is that if a corp is at war, then the corp and/or corp members are automatically flagged. So, in this case awoxing could actually be used as a war tactic, and not mindless killing.
Nope, not supported. Already mentioned why in other thread based on the exact same issue, which is the response that continually proves to be the overwhelming reason why threads like this don't get traction.
Live in the sandbox and don't eat from the kitty litter of bad ideas. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
|
Xionyxa
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 14:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:This should not be allowed. You should fall under the same rules as anyone who kills. Immediate destruction in high sec by CONCORD and loss of standing.
Just because I work for a corporation does not give me the right to go around killing its members. The daily news around the world should be a sign of this.
I am not asking for a change to any specific mechanics of corp life, only that they have the same engagement rules as everyone else.
However, the one thing I do propose is that if you turn your security lock to red, then anyone in corp may attack you; however, this will red tag them as well, allowing them to be attacked by anyone in corp. Also, it will display in corp chat somehow that your security flag is red.
This means that in-corp pvp is still possible with a simple click of the security setting.
Not supported.
Corp killing works both ways, any properly organized corp should be able to put roles on a corp killer and get their own back. CONCORD is a terrible game mechanic as it is without expanding it. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2066
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 16:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Pro-tip for OP:
CCP literally had an advert centered around the ability to infiltrate a corp and destroy it from the inside. These capabilities are a SELLING POINT for the game.
If you don't like them, you don't understand EVE.
If you don't know how to deal with them within the current mechanics, you don't understand EVE.
|
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
470
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 17:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Pro-tip for OP:
CCP literally had an advert centered around the ability to infiltrate a corp and destroy it from the inside. These capabilities are a SELLING POINT for the game.
If you don't like them, you don't understand EVE.
If you don't know how to deal with them within the current mechanics, you don't understand EVE.
I understand this, however, I believe CCP was speaking more specifically on spying, stealing and other infiltration tactics.
Awoxing has never been applied as a successful tactic to shut down your opponent. At best you kill a few ships, maybe some shinies. But you can take down an opposing corp a lot more effectively with infiltration than simple awoxing.
This is not a tactic that it's an effective use. Just ask anyone in a major alliance what they would do when they infiltrate another corp/alliance.
You can probably bet they wouldn't use an infiltrator for mindless awoxing |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1565
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 19:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:
You can probably bet they wouldn't use an infiltrator for mindless awoxing
Mindless awoxing? No. But If by awoxing I can keep them constantly docked up and utterly ineffective for fear of me killing them at random with no CONCORD threat, then I have won. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Rance Ikari
Resource Kings
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.26 22:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
god forbid you play a game where you have to exercise good judgement and be responsible for your own welfare
petition ccp to kill off the amarr too while you're at it, slavery just isn't trendy in the workplace either! |
Juan Olivier
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 19:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
I support this. Like dueling allows people to fight in high sec a mechanism like team dueling could be implemented. They can form 2 fleets for example and then one fleet can challenge another fleet to a duel. Just like one pilot duels another pilot. This will allow any kind of ship testing to be done in high sec. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
7373
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 19:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
No to PvP flag.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
654
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 19:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
it's not about the flagging for PvP.
It's more about how being allowed to free kill corp members doesn't make much sense.
I mean, you can't attack random people in high sec without issue, so why are you allowed to attack ppl just cause you're in the same corp?
There are many other ways to harass and/or bring down another corp. All of which being significantly more effective than awoxing.
The strategy behind awoxing is to bring down an easy/squishy target as quickly as possible.
The targeted ships is rarely (if ever) a ship that is known to be strong in pvp. The targeted ships are typically mission runners or miners.
You never see someone awoxing a ship that would be strong enough to counter. You also rarely (if ever) see a known pvp corp getting awoxed.
My point is, awoxing is never used for any type of tactical advantage. it is merely used in the same manner as suicide ganking, only without requiring several alpha ships, and with much less risks and no isk loss as long as you don't suck at it.
The other thing to consider is risks vs rewards. Typically, the more risks you take, the higher the potential payout.
Ex. Ganking a freighter with catalysts as compared to Tornados.
With the Tornados, you're more likely to take the target down in time, however, with catalysts you have the potential for much greater payout, but require more people and have the potential to fail.
Now, an awoxer that knows what he's doing can solo a freighter by simply joining the right corp, which isn't hard to do... If he joins a pve/mining focused corp, then no one will defend, if even be on to defend, and the odds are, even if they do defend, they will be too noob or inexperienced to defend... So, he is essentially has the potential to make way more isk than any ganker, and will do so with little to no risks, and if done right, won't even lose a time to anything other than ammo....
How is this fair to anyone involved?
Everyone knows awoxing is generally a very one sided fight, unless you suck.... So, why support something that breaks everything we consider the game to be except for "Eve is harsh"? |
|
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
604
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 20:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm going to briefly weigh-in on this with an aspect that hasn't been considered. AWOX'ing is killing EVE.
Corporations are reluctant to take on new players and new players are reluctant to join corporations or form their own and recruit. Thus you end up with a disproportionate number of players in NPC corporations simply for their own protection. It's fine if players want to go it alone, but forcing them down this path and effectively robbing them of valuable team-based training really limits their gaming experience.
So yes, I still agree with the original proposal. You AWOX, you get a visit from CONCORD. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
365
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 20:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
OP must be pretty clueless if he doesn't think awoxing is a tactic.
OP must not understand the point of the safety lock if he thinks its a good idea to have people set it to red in order to attack a legal target.
OP must be new to the game to think that awoxing isn't effective or has never brought down a corp before, or to think that bringing down a corp is the point of awoxing in the first place.
OP must be pretty silly to talk about risks vs rewards then demand that there should be no risk in accepting people to your corp or joining another corp. Fighting is Magic |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
654
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 20:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:
You can probably bet they wouldn't use an infiltrator for mindless awoxing
Mindless awoxing? No. But If by awoxing I can keep them constantly docked up and utterly ineffective for fear of me killing them at random with no CONCORD threat, then I have won.
What you're speaking to is more specifically high sec, pve focused corps, and more specifically the corps with little to no kills... Taking out these type of corps does nothing for you, unless they're mining out your system.
However, if that's the case, why not wardec them? Or, you could infiltrate, wardec, space log out your corp, and convince the target corp that the coast is clear, and they can resume mining/missioning... Build a fleet, take them out, drop fleet and join a attacking corp fleet. You can literally take out an entire fleet of ships like this.
However, you'll never see goons drop an awoxer into another major alliance to get a kill or two...
Why? Because it doesn't help bring them down....
Like I've mentioned, they use other tactics that can bring and have brought down major alliances.
Besides, and awoxer is only as good as they're undocked and logged in... Eventually they will DC or dock, thus allowing them to be kicked from corp.
So again, an awoxer is in no way bringing down a corp or alliance. I have never seen this outcome...
As a matter of fact, all awoxing has done effectively is actually make it hard to infiltrate other corps.
Once a corp gets awoxed a couple times, that corp then learns what to do in order to vet this issue.
So now, not only have you not taken down a target corp, you have instead made it more difficult to take them down, because you can't get at them from the inside as easily as you could, had you just used a strong tactic from the start. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
655
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 20:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Batelle wrote:OP must be pretty clueless if he doesn't think awoxing is a tactic.
OP must not understand the point of the safety lock if he thinks its a good idea to have people set it to red in order to attack a legal target.
OP must be new to the game to think that awoxing isn't effective or has never brought down a corp before.
Really?
I would very much like you hear a story where awoxing has brought down a corp.
And I'm not talking about some little 5-10 man corp that jumps ship and starts another corp.
I'm talking about a strong corp or alliance that has a pull on any part of Eve such as SOV, strong market share, WH control, PI control, control over a lvl 5 agent, a strong incursion corp, etc. etc. etc...
Quote:OP must be pretty silly to talk about risks vs rewards then demand that there should be no risk in accepting people to your corp or joining another corp
Oh really? So there's absolutely no risk to a corp when they recruit people, if said people can't awox?
So I guess spying, stealing, target spotting, and many, MANY other possible infiltration tactics aren't at all a risk? |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2887
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 21:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quote:Why should you be able to attack a corp member?
1.) Corp Tournaments (which are very tedious with the dueling mechanic) 2.) Web-to-warp Freighters and Orcas and stuff. 3.) Revenge against a corp thief that has been caught red handed. 4.) To AWOX 5.) To test a fit. 6.) To add an element of "trust" into corp recruitment.
Quote:How do you punish an AWOXer?
Are you familiar with social justice?
There might not be a concord response, but if you post (ideally in Crimes and Punishment) that they are a Corp AWOXer, along with proof, then the next corp they apply to will probably deny them entry because they can't be trusted. You can additionally attack them back, bounty them, hiring mercs, by suicide gank them, by following their progress and letting their future corp mates know they can't be trusted.
Being effectively Blacklisted is a hell of a lot more brutal a punishment than losing a ship to concord!!!
Now, I realize there will be lots of Corps out there that don't bother to do a basic forum search, don't bother to get account API's to check out the "characters" founded on all toons, etc...
Here's a question:
Is it better to leave social justice and black listing to corps? Or should CCP simply prevent AWOXing? I prefer the punishment come from the players!! |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1926
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 22:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:
However, you'll never see goons drop an awoxer into another major alliance to get a kill or two...
Yes, you will. You see it ALL. THE. TIME. And it happens both ways too, the CFC gets awoxers fairly regularly. Anything from the gank ratters kind, to the light cyno, drop hostile gang sort. Awoxing is a part of the game, it happens everywhere, and it has for a long time. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
656
|
Posted - 2013.11.18 22:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:
However, you'll never see goons drop an awoxer into another major alliance to get a kill or two...
Yes, you will. You see it ALL. THE. TIME. And it happens both ways too, the CFC gets awoxers fairly regularly. Anything from the gank ratters kind, to the light cyno, drop hostile gang sort. Awoxing is a part of the game, it happens everywhere, and it has for a long time.
I was speaking more specifically on high sec activity.. Awoxing in low/null/wh is totally fine, cause everything is totally fine in low/null/wh space...
Now, awoxing doesn't serve a valuable purpose though.
You did however mention gang drops/cyno drops. Well, this isn't exactly awoxing.... This is a different, more tactical use and is more in line with target calling/spying, which I mentioned as legitimate tactics...
These same tactics can be used in high sec, but with awoxing, much like outside of high sec, doesn't really have any value, without bringing in a fleet...
Essentially, the spy can call targets, drop fleet and join other fleet, then they can all warp in on him, and the enemy would be none the wiser....
Another thing I have thought of is that if you're wardecced, awoxing becomes legal on both sides. Essentially meaning that all targets, even friendly, become legal targets. So, with the cost of a war dec, you can awox. |
Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
382
|
Posted - 2013.11.19 00:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Eve isn't real life. Making something a no-no in Eve because it's a no-no in real life is a mistake.
I dunno, it's just always felt like being able to shoot at your corp mates creates a certain kind of intimacy that wouldn't exist without this mechanic. Also, taking a shot at your friend before warping off is fun. |
Arthur Trueshot
Four Pillar Production Headshot Gaming
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 00:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
I say you either make concord come if you attack corp member or you allow attacking alliance members. Don't see why you should be able to do the one but not the other.
PS: The whole you can shoot on own corpy actually reduces a lot the use of corps for social stickiness/involvement of new player. Why create a corp and take the risk of getting "ganked" if you can simply create a channel instead and every one sit in his own 1 man corp (no i am absolutely not talking about incursions as an example). |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade Space Wolves Alliance
68
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 04:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
Awoxing is nothing more than griefing in my eyes. I don't get why so many here support it (unless they are awoxers themselves). New players in particular are very susceptible to it, as the mechanics are not obvious to them until they are getting blasted by a corpmate. I really don't understand why CCP actively supports griefing with silly game mechanics like this. It turns off a lot of new players and loses them money. And as Joe Risalo has pointed out there is no real logic behind it. Being in a corp with someone shouldn't make killing them okay. That's just idiotic. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |