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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Jane Idoka
LoneStar Industries Comatose Alliance
4
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:36:00 -
[331] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:I approve of this improvement.
i do not |
Sizeof Void
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:41:00 -
[332] - Quote
Garbad theWeak wrote:So I plugged in the changes into pyfa and compared a hellcat vs. a new and improved blaster thron. Both have standards you would expect -- heavy cap booster, mwd, and web + scram.
Megathron: 1245 DPS (928 excluding ogres) 105k EHP 2x as good tracking as the abby (~.06) a heavy neut almost cap stable, with the booster can run mwd + neut for several minutes ~40% faster with MWD on
Abby: 918 DPS (760 excludign drones) 177k EHP, also has much better resist profile (better reps) can fire to 45k using scorch not at all cap stable
So the mega is faster, does substantially more dps, tracks better, is cap stable, and can neut out to 25k. The abby has far, far more EHP and range but has cap issues. In a fleet, you can reasonably expect a damnation improving resists, further magnifying the EHP gap. You can also expect reps from a gaurdian, who has energy to waste, reducing or eliminating the cap problems of the abby.
So which would you rather have: ~30% more dps at close range or up to 5x as much range and 2x as much ehp? I think the hellcat clearly wins. This is a very odd comparison. Why would you compare a solo, cap-stable, mega to a cap-UNstable abby, with support ships? |
Cerlin
Imperium Technologies F0RCEFUL ENTRY
2
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:42:00 -
[333] - Quote
I feel that these changes will be a good start to changing the balance of hybrids for the better.
And as someone who has a majority of his weapon training in hybrids I say thank you. I look forward to seeing how these changes work in the field (Gets back to his gallente cross training.) |
zulrock
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:48:00 -
[334] - Quote
What do you think of as a different way of balancing Hybrids to nerf ACs take away EMP and Phased Plasma ammo types and make projectiles strictly explosive/kinetic damage. The amarr are only em thermal and galent are only thermal kinetic, why should minmitar which the projectiles already don't use cap like the other turret types being able to switch damage types seems like too much.
oh and too give the ACs a buff now seems stupid even if hail really isnt any better than rep fleet EMP which most people use.
Do you guys ever do any really world PvP or just on test servers. |
Haulin Aussie
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:55:00 -
[335] - Quote
Large hybrid ammo is also way too many m3 compared to others. could this be looked at too please? |
ben babiroussa
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:57:00 -
[336] - Quote
me like! |
Jamil Torres
BatahvKalse
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:58:00 -
[337] - Quote
At least mini is still a win button : ) Also im a gall and havent flown a gall ship in years other than the enyo. This will not change that. |
Useful Alt
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 21:59:00 -
[338] - Quote
what is missing is more range for blaster
go in a battleship with blaster only do not move and try to shot down an orbiting npc battleship at 21-23km which happen in mission
have fun. |
xAbsocold
BOAE INC BricK sQuAD.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:02:00 -
[339] - Quote
Most Gallente ships get +10 to speed, including the already zippy Vigilant, but the Myrmidon doesn't even get a +5?!
Poor Myrmidon, repeatedly hit with the nerf bat, ignored by the buff fairy.
I've got $10 that says after this change goes live that the Hybrid buff not going far enough plus the Myrmidon not getting a speed boost means that this poor Gallente ship will still be equipped with Minmatar guns. And will still suck :( |
Narjack
CragCO
1
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:02:00 -
[340] - Quote
Mariner6 wrote:Great to see CCP address the issue and obviously they are tracking on the fact that the ships using them are all jacked up. Unless this is addressed all these changes are frankly a minor band-aid, but I'll add a few more 2 cents on the table:
1) Why is the Mrym and the Ishkur not gettting the speed/agility boost? You can't tell me they are too fast already and the poor Myrm needs some help.
2) Since all the other weapon systems seem to have a unique capability such as either not using cap, or no ammo needed, change of damage type, or missiles don't miss (for the most part); how about giving Hybrids something special as well. Like INSTANT AMMO changes like scripts. This would help in shifting ammo types to deal with ranging which is not realistic now with that 10 second delay.
3) Will all these tracking increases make frigs unable to tackle without being popped?
I find the idea of that no delay ammo change and interesting one, as it fits the hybrid T1 ammo concept of different ranges well. Interesting idea.
What about VOID ammo? Seems like that needs some serious attention as well, or maybe I missed it. But its hardly used due to the tracking penalty. Remove that and that would make blaster boats even more face meltingly appealing. |
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Svennig
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:02:00 -
[341] - Quote
Haulin Aussie wrote:Large hybrid ammo is also way too many m3 compared to others. could this be looked at too please?
not empty quoting. |
M1AU
Rheintal Underground Rising
17
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:06:00 -
[342] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Nimrod Nemesis wrote:Sizeof Void wrote:Got through about 1/2 of the posts here, and I think many of you need to get on EFT and try some new loadouts, using the new stats, before you rant and rave about the proposed rebalancing.
Spoken like someone who's got no experience flying a hybrid platform. yeah i know eh the thing with pre boosted blasters is on eft they looked awesome... but we need more than just on paper awesome...we need in game awesome and the boost from CCP Tallest will just make them look better on paper but not in practice Indeed, mainly because we need to evaluate the effects the inertia modification is going to have in game, which is something EFT really can't tell us. If the accelleration increase is significant enough, the subtle benefits could very well put this thing over the top as far a win factor goes. One other factor that is very subtle, but could have a significant overall effect would be a reduction for Gallante boats Signature Radius. If it takes a bit longer to target them and get a scram/web on them that lets the better accelleration pay off larger dividends. Justify it as a function of their organic hull designs, or perhaps an inherent part of all Gallante tech due to their knowledge of Sensor Dampning tech. I actually think the lowering of the signatur radius could be a viable improvement. Longer locking time for others and harder to hit. In theory sounds much like what a blaster boat could need. |
Dunmur
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
1
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:07:00 -
[343] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:Perdition64 wrote: hurricane vs brutix this is a good summary of why pvp'ers generally stick with AC platforms. - incredible falloff - better tracking - no cap use - minnie ships are the fastest - while tank remains on par with all other ships this is overpowered. you have to give people a reason NOT TO fly an AC boat at medium/close ranges. remember, one scram and the blaster boat is dead in the water....AC boat is still doing significant damage at 25km, medium blasters dont work past 10km.
WOW couldnt have put it better myself |
Schwester Minotaur
Tobruk Heavy Industries Shadow of xXDEATHXx
3
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:14:00 -
[344] - Quote
Sorry, me again ....
i read the probe thing and sniping battleships.
But hey, there are ways to reduce this problematic. Like having an interceptor wich is flying top speed - in any direction to give the fleet an instant warpout, if enemy is warping in.
But back to my Caldarian Thinking.
What defines a Sniper Battleship like the Rokh. The Rokh is a specialised Platform, or better the platfom i would like to see. With that optimal Bonus it is THAT ship for sniping actions.
As i said, a improvement of the hardcap will be fine. What did you do against a fleet, you cant lock ? - Right- RUN !
I do not want that overhelimgubar ROKH.
I know that i never will have that damage a megathron has. I know that i will never have the capstableness and tanking ability like a dominix. I know that the Rokh is not fast enough, to kite a neuting megathron.
But i love this ships, and i love my blasters and rails.
Please - give the Rokh more love in your thinkings.
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EmmerTemp
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:16:00 -
[345] - Quote
Everything must have an upside and downside. Good example there, but still... once that Blasterboat does get in range of ur ugly AC boat, you better start running. You can't make every weapon/ship/race the same... |
Imawuss
United Atheist League
3
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:16:00 -
[346] - Quote
Simply Not enough.
Hybrids still have all the disadvantages of every weapon system with no advantage to speak of. Lasers get unlimited ammo and insta load but use cap, Projectiles get damage type, plus range modifiers, and no cap, but have 10 second load time. Missles get damage type and no cap, but have 10 second laod time. Hybrids get range selection that can not be fully be utilsed because of 10 seconds load time and nerfing dps. But for that they get cap usage, and 10 second load time. This load time should be reduced from 10 seconds to 5 seconds, If you need to justify this hybrid ammo is smaller than projectile ammo and missles so it would make sense that it could load faster, they need an inert advantage here.
Another problem was being able to apply your dps. +10 m/s and agility will not solve this. Someone earlier suggested having ammo trade cap for range instead of DPS for range. This makes sense, currently Blaster which can only be used in extremley short range are penalised for using them in extremly short range because it cost them more cap to do so. That does not make sense, the longer the range the more cap you use, this is how hybrids should work. This should also be combined with reducing hybrid ammo load time from 10 to 5 seconds so that they can easier switch out ammo to actually utilize this while fighting.
until then Blasters will still be useless in fleets because they cant engage/DPS at normal fleet ranges, Rails will still be useless because their DPS is sub-par at normal sniper fleet ranges. SImply the negatives still outweigh the positives by a large factor. |
Little Fistter
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:18:00 -
[347] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:.....Taranis.
I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot more of them.
Taranis? Its a throwaway tackler. Dosen't do as much damage as any other ceptor and ceptors suck compared to faction frigates and Assault Ships.
Enyo is a better blaster ship.
Taranis lacks defenses, die in seconds, only two drones and no power or cpu for good guns.
Taranis is a fail-mobile!
Should have a 100% damage bonus and some dam armor to give it half a chance of not getting alphaed! |
ArmyOfMe
TEDDYBEARS. Excuses.
41
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:24:00 -
[348] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:Nimrod Nemesis wrote: Spoken like someone who's got no experience flying a hybrid platform.
I suppose so. I've only been flying Gallente gunboats for 3.5 years, with 18 million SP in guns. I apologize for being presumptuous. Well ive flown blasterboats for over 8 years, and have allmost twice your sp in gunnery, so that argument kinda fails
And this buff is not even close to enough to fixing blasterboats tbh.
Our ships are slow as hell, and becomes even slower once u put on the standard buffer or active tank fits. Our dps is also not good enough considering the rather ****** range we have compared to the other races.
CCP, for the love of god boost the deimos..... |
Max Von Sydow
Droneboat Diplomacy
8
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:25:00 -
[349] - Quote
Little Fistter wrote:JC Anderson wrote:.....Taranis.
I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot more of them. Taranis? Its a throwaway tackler. Dosen't do as much damage as any other ceptor and ceptors suck compared to faction frigates and Assault Ships. Enyo is a better blaster ship. Taranis lacks defenses, die in seconds, only two drones and no power or cpu for good guns. Taranis is a fail-mobile! Should have a 100% damage bonus and some dam armor to give it half a chance of not getting alphaed!
wat |
ArmyOfMe
TEDDYBEARS. Excuses.
41
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:29:00 -
[350] - Quote
Svennig wrote:Haulin Aussie wrote:Large hybrid ammo is also way too many m3 compared to others. could this be looked at too please? not empty quoting. also this
CCP, for the love of god boost the deimos..... |
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
29
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:32:00 -
[351] - Quote
Good changes, long overdue.
One last "Gallente buff" would be to look at drone bandwidth again, and promote more drone specialised ships again.
75 mw on the Eos and Myrmidon could/should be returned to 125 mw, perhaps at the expense of turret hardpoints.
Cheers. |
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:32:00 -
[352] - Quote
i disagree that blasters need more range. Short range in their niche. What may help is if the current ammos that give increased range did a reasonable amount of damage. Then maybe I'd consider using them over antimatter.
The proposed 10 m/s speed increase isn't enough though, as has already been stated. Minmatar ships will still be able to maintain range. |
Little Fistter
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:34:00 -
[353] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Pretty pleased with all the listed changes. Looking forward to flying all the web-bonused hybrid platforms this winter.
Love the across the board T2 closerange ammo reform. I'm hard just thinking about it.
One request for an additional change: the Thorax and its derivatives all need an additional mid-slot. This would allow them to do scram/web/booster/propmod in an armor configuration or scram/2x lse/prop in a shield configuration. Both are sort of necessary for their respective roles (a slow armor setup needs that web, an unbonused shield tank needs 2 LSEs to get an acceptable quantity of EHP). Personally I would also apply +1 mid to the Vigilant as well, since its current configuration makes it "useable" rather than "better than average"-- not what you'd expect from an extremely expensive faction cruiser. The Deimos and Thorax definitely need a fourth mid though... like *need* need.
I always find myself shedding a tear for the Deimos in particular-- with another mid it would be such a fantastic workhorse HAC for people who are hard for closerange obliteration, but as it is it's just too useless. It wants a scram/web/sensor booster or injector (depending on the type of armor tank you use) in an armor setup and a scram/dual LSE/prop configuration for a shieldtanked nano setup. Either of these would be very practical and fun to fly. Instead, with its current layout, the Deimos' only use is as a dirt-cheap, second-class citizen sniper HAC approximation that is outperformed significantly by every other HAC but at least manages to be cheap.
THIS is TRUE! 'Rax needs mid slots, some speed and a better drone range. Used to be a "Rax was a great drone boat. Now it just a bit too old and slow for much of anything. More drone bandwidth! A Gila has 125 drobe BW, why not a Rax?
And Deimos and its siblings, if you're not going to fix them take them out of the game, they are useless as-is! |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
35
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:37:00 -
[354] - Quote
Your forum software is ****, CCP.
/me starts again... less coherent this time though.
It's good to see you looking at hybrids, but these changes still don't give people a reason to use them on the cruiser and BS scale. You've hardly addressed the problem of actually getting into blaster range against faster, long-ranged AC ships, although I am glad to see you acknowledge it. Nor have you given blasters a sufficient damage advantage close up, over Pulse and ACs, to make them worth using, to compensate the difficulty and danger inherent to going into web range. Currently, ACs can do blasters' job about as well as blasters, with no cap use, selectable damage types and immense falloff to boot, and your problem is that the blaster changes don't alter this fact.
There's still no reason to use rails. They have no role - or rather, their role can be performed almost as well by other, more flexible weapons. Long-range work doesn't really exist, thanks to the 249 km cap, instant probing and on-grid warping. And if it did exist, Tachyons on optimal-bonused hulls would still do the job just as well, but with far greater flexibility and more damage at closer ranges. At closer range, Caldari railboats, the supposed rail specialists, will be outdamaged by the Gallente hulls, and both offer no significant advantage over the much more flexible artillery and optimal-bonused Scorch.
Small hybrids are basically fine, don't touch them.
To get people using hybrids again, you've got to make them worth using. You can argue that hybrids are actually well balanced, because they have well-defined roles; it's the power-creep of the other weapons, encroaching into blasters' niche (AC hull speed, AC damage, tracking and ammos, Pulse tracking) and rails' niche (Tachyons, optimal-bonused hulls, impossibility of maintaining range) that are causing the problems.
In my mind, you can't fix hybrids without significant nerfs to projectiles and lasers. If I'm right, this "fix" will fail. At least if that does happen, you'll then have the evidence you need to rebalance the other weapons... although hopefully you won't wait another two years. |
Bhaal Chinnian
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:37:00 -
[355] - Quote
Excellent!!!!!
But.... as a side note, SINCE Gallente ships are Drone specialists, could you at least increase the drone bandwidth for the Myrmidon(and drone proteus fit) to 125? kthxbai |
Digital Gaidin
Manetheren Rising
2
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:39:00 -
[356] - Quote
xAbsocold wrote:Most Gallente ships get +10 to speed, including some already zippy ships, but the Myrmidon doesn't even get a +5?!
Poor Myrmidon, repeatedly hit with the nerf bat, ignored by the buff fairy.
I've got $10 that says after this change goes live that the Hybrid buff not going far enough plus the Myrmidon not getting a speed boost means that this poor Gallente ship will still be equipped with Minmatar guns. And will still suck :( Calling it now, a Myrmidon will still be better using its current fit with Projectiles, than with Hybrid even after the changes...
Vyktor Abyss wrote:Good changes, long overdue.
One last "Gallente buff" would be to look at drone bandwidth again, and promote more drone specialised ships again.
75 mw on the Eos and Myrmidon could/should be returned to 125 mw, perhaps at the expense of turret hardpoints.
Cheers. Add the Hyperion to this list, as 100 bandwidth basically makes this a pre-gimped battleship, and the Proteus as its pointless to have a Drone T3 with only 4x Heavy's... |
Dunmur
Next Stage Initiative Trans-Stellar Industries
1
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:44:00 -
[357] - Quote
Considering this "buff" took the better part of 2 years to get. The buffs are so weak and in the case of blasters completly sidestep the issue, to top it all off they buff projectiles also. I'm so disappointed in ccp i am tempted to cancel my accounts and wait the 2+ years for ccp to finally realize how to fix this :( |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
89
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:45:00 -
[358] - Quote
Joelleaveek wrote:i disagree that blasters need more range. Short range in their niche. What may help is if the current ammos that give increased range did a reasonable amount of damage. Then maybe I'd consider using them over antimatter.
When the reload time is fixed to 10 sec
Then your tactic is just change ammo to scratch paint from longer distances?
You can't fix blasters if you're not able to pick the only available choices, and those are hard:
- Give them enough range to be usefull in close/med range combat
- Give them nuclear warheads dps and keep the crap distance
- Increase significantly speed with AB or MWD bonus (one of them not both oc)
- Give them bonus to web and scram range or strgth for web only
Now you have to pick 2 of the above like it or not.
If you don't everything you're doing is some makeup, by the same time you buff projectiles even more. Now the hybrids buff looks like what?
I'll still be flying Minmatar over my first race tbh hybrids buff or not at the current state. Sure I'll fly some here and there just for lulz but when I get back to serious business, I'll pick Minmatar and Angel (my Cyna will love the projectiles buff, he was not overpowered enough) |
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
0
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:48:00 -
[359] - Quote
Many thanks and best regards from a dedicated gallente pilot. Keep going, you are making it better and better again.
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Tore Vest
Vikinghall
44
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Posted - 2011.10.31 22:48:00 -
[360] - Quote
Not enough. Not eaven half way there... I fly minmatar after patch.... i guess |
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