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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
833
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 14:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
Nofearion wrote: Players should be active, Mechanics should support this.
If your intention is to claim that player should be active, then your solution should address all inactive players, not just cloakers.
as for your reply to 1, making a ship scannable just because it has a cyno is a nerf to the cloak. If your problem is that a cloaked vessel can drop a cyno, then address that fact. Ask for the cyno to be tied into the drop-cloak targeting delay or something.
2. even with a crappy scanner all it takes is one ping to tell you if a cloaker is close to you. This has nothing to do with 'finding an AFK cloaker' as they will not be within 15Km of a warpable point anyway.
3. Once again it's the cloaked cyno ship thats a problem..... starting to see a pattern. Deal with the speed of a cyno pop and you are golden.
4. Go to Jita, so many people sending the same spam chat every minute, 23.5 hours a day. Thats a macro... CCP does eff-all.
4. Buy a wiggler, its a USB device that flicks the mouse one pixel left and right at a high speed. Used to keep machines from going into power save when you dont want to adjust the settings.
also "there is not current mechanics for interaction with cloaked ships once established in system"
There are may ways to interact and deal with a cloaker in a system. Not to mention, if you are that adiment that its 'your' system, why not protect it and not allow a red to become established in the first place.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Nofearion
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC The Kadeshi
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 16:40:00 -
[62] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:Nofearion wrote: Players should be active, Mechanics should support this.
If your intention is to claim that player should be active, then your solution should address all inactive players, not just cloakers. as for your reply to 1, making a ship scannable just because it has a cyno is a nerf to the cloak. If your problem is that a cloaked vessel can drop a cyno, then address that fact. Ask for the cyno to be tied into the drop-cloak targeting delay or something. 2. even with a crappy scanner all it takes is one ping to tell you if a cloaker is close to you. This has nothing to do with 'finding an AFK cloaker' as they will not be within 15Km of a warpable point anyway. 3. Once again it's the cloaked cyno ship thats a problem..... starting to see a pattern. Deal with the speed of a cyno pop and you are golden. 4. Go to Jita, so many people sending the same spam chat every minute, 23.5 hours a day. Thats a macro... CCP does eff-all. 4. Buy a wiggler, its a USB device that flicks the mouse one pixel left and right at a high speed. Used to keep machines from going into power save when you dont want to adjust the settings. also "there is not current mechanics for interaction with cloaked ships once established in system" There are may ways to interact and deal with a cloaker in a system. Not to mention, if you are that adiment that its 'your' system, why not protect it and not allow a red to become established in the first place.
Are you actually suggesting and supporting that I and others use attachments and software to enable AFK game play? and if you are do you realize that you are advocating people to violate the EULA? as to the rest of your arguments I suggest you re read all the previous arguments. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2987
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 17:06:00 -
[63] - Quote
Nofearion wrote:Jint Hikaru wrote:Nofearion wrote: Players should be active, Mechanics should support this.
4. Buy a wiggler, its a USB device that flicks the mouse one pixel left and right at a high speed. Used to keep machines from going into power save when you dont want to adjust the settings. also "there is not current mechanics for interaction with cloaked ships once established in system" There are may ways to interact and deal with a cloaker in a system. Not to mention, if you are that adiment that its 'your' system, why not protect it and not allow a red to become established in the first place. Are you actually suggesting and supporting that I and others use attachments and software to enable AFK game play? and if you are do you realize that you are advocating people to violate the EULA? as to the rest of your arguments I suggest you re read all the previous arguments. As this does not violate the spirit of the rules, CCP would not care.
Seriously, you can get the same effect from a mouse with a flaky optical reader on the wrong surface. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15569
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 17:41:00 -
[64] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Nofearion wrote:Jint Hikaru wrote:Nofearion wrote: Players should be active, Mechanics should support this.
4. Buy a wiggler, its a USB device that flicks the mouse one pixel left and right at a high speed. Used to keep machines from going into power save when you dont want to adjust the settings. also "there is not current mechanics for interaction with cloaked ships once established in system" There are may ways to interact and deal with a cloaker in a system. Not to mention, if you are that adiment that its 'your' system, why not protect it and not allow a red to become established in the first place. Are you actually suggesting and supporting that I and others use attachments and software to enable AFK game play? and if you are do you realize that you are advocating people to violate the EULA? as to the rest of your arguments I suggest you re read all the previous arguments. As this does not violate the spirit of the rules, CCP would not care. Seriously, you can get the same effect from a mouse with a flaky optical reader on the wrong surface. Indeed. Let's be honest here, AFK timers would simply not work. Too easily bypassed and without breaking the EULA. Plus ask yourself do CCP even want it? Seeing as AFK players have next to no load, but add numbers to the server, I doubt it.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Pirate Nation.
117
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 19:10:00 -
[65] - Quote
I just watched a video of someone warping under the new warp system using an interceptor which of course has immunity to bubbles, the speed is just amazing and I think that even the most hapless gank bear who required 2 minutes delay on local should be able to catch something.
The fun part comes in that it changes the way that he game works to a huge degree, local is not really that much of a protection, in that you will have swarming masses of interceptors running ahead of the roaming fleets. On many AFK cloaking threads you chaps have gone on about local being the reason for AFK cloaking as people cannot catch anything with local, so you can imagine my interest in seeing just how this pans out and the impact on the those AFK cloaking if what you said is true.
In terms of the mouse thing, yeah that would make it difficult, good point even if it is technically against the EULA. If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space, its as simple as that!-á-á-á-á-á-á-á There are people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local, well they should light a cyno and try jumping to it. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
837
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 07:51:00 -
[66] - Quote
Nofearion wrote: Are you actually suggesting and supporting that I and others use attachments and software to enable AFK game play? and if you are do you realize that you are advocating people to violate the EULA?
You know perfectly well I'm not advocating any form of EULA violation. I'm just pointing out how easy it is to bypass any type of AFK kick-out.
Not to mention that the two that I pointed out are not EULA violations anyway. If they were then Jita would be a much quieter place. (to be quite honest I wish macroing repeat messages to the local channel was a violation)
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2991
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 13:29:00 -
[67] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:I just watched a video of someone warping under the new warp system using an interceptor which of course has immunity to bubbles, the speed is just amazing and I think that even the most hapless gank bear who required 2 minutes delay on local should be able to catch something.
The fun part comes in that it changes the way that he game works to a huge degree, local is not really that much of a protection, in that you will have swarming masses of interceptors running ahead of the roaming fleets. On many AFK cloaking threads you chaps have gone on about local being the reason for AFK cloaking as people cannot catch anything with local, so you can imagine my interest in seeing just how this pans out and the impact on the those AFK cloaking if what you said is true.
In terms of the mouse thing, yeah that would make it difficult, good point even if it is technically against the EULA. Step one: be prepared. Done. This means being aligned or in a ship that aligns fast enough to make no difference. It may not be the most efficient way to work PvE, especially compared to a min-max fitting, but it makes me impossible to catch unless I screw it up first.
So long as local lets me hit warp before you have even loaded grid, you have no chance to catch me.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Nofearion
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC The Kadeshi
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 14:50:00 -
[68] - Quote
I like receiving all the good arguments and discussion. please lets remember what this thread is about. Interaction with cloaked ships. this is the situation - Ship enters system finds a safe and cloaks up. later people come into system or log on. Following the only protocol that is safe for this situation is to stay in pos\station or leave and go somewhere else. this leaves the system unused and effectively shut down as there is currently no mechanic in place to know a. is the cloaked pilot active or not b. is the cloaked pilot carrying a cyno c. is there a threat of force projection there currently is now mechanic that allows you to interact and remove this threat if they never uncloak. I know I have heard all the arguments and it leaves much to be desired as I am pointing out an imbalance. If no one approves of the suggestions made. scannable cloaked cyno scannable cloaked ship with probes and skills. removing local and adding in new intel log off mechanics.
then please give me a viable suggestion for a mechanic that allows me to if not hunt and interact with a cloaked vessel under the above circumstances. then at least interact and remove or change the situation after a reasonable period of time. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2993
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 15:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
Nofearion wrote:I like receiving all the good arguments and discussion. please lets remember what this thread is about. Interaction with cloaked ships. this is the situation - Ship enters system finds a safe and cloaks up. later people come into system or log on. Following the only protocol that is safe for this situation is to stay in pos\station or leave and go somewhere else. this leaves the system unused and effectively shut down as there is currently no mechanic in place to know a. is the cloaked pilot active or not b. is the cloaked pilot carrying a cyno c. is there a threat of force projection there currently is now mechanic that allows you to interact and remove this threat if they never uncloak. I know I have heard all the arguments and it leaves much to be desired as I am pointing out an imbalance. If no one approves of the suggestions made. scannable cloaked cyno scannable cloaked ship with probes and skills. removing local and adding in new intel log off mechanics.
then please give me a viable suggestion for a mechanic that allows me to if not hunt and interact with a cloaked vessel under the above circumstances. then at least interact and remove or change the situation after a reasonable period of time. First off, your foundation is flawed. The system is NOT shut down.
You can still operate, if you do so as part of a group, or make preparations to deal with hostiles directly.
What do I mean? Go, undock, do PvE with others covering you. A group working together, even with individually weak ships, can handle threats. Worried about a cyno? Block them with a jammer. Worried about covert cynos? Don't be easy to kill. Covert hostiles are more expensive to put in the field, and that is how they are balanced.
If you can't beat em, leave: Fit stabs, plant bubbles around your gates, use smart bombs, align to your exit. One or more of these strategies puts you back in the game.
In null sec, effort is the price of admission, and if your opponent is making a current effort, you need to at least match it.
As to limiting cloaked ships, they are already balanced. The most agreed upon trade off for detecting them in a new way, is to require effort for the existing method. This translates as: Not being listed for free in local as a trade off to being able to scan them down. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Nofearion
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC The Kadeshi
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 18:57:00 -
[70] - Quote
thanks for the reply Nikk, but as you know you have not addressed the issue. If I was a renter I might agree with your tactics. As one who does pay the price to live in null, and again I do not rent. I want to remove hostels from whatever systems I want to use. here are some facts to keep in mind. If I did not want local -I would still live in a wormhole. there is still a lot of that space left unused as well. If I wanted to gimp my pvp fit to escape I would simply rent space - Note i'm not a big ratter, and yes I mine but it is not my main profession. as to intelligence gathering and system use, Technically speaking no the system is not shut down. Let me ask you this, how many empty systems do you fly through to get a fight? Having the ability to deal directly with a cloaked ship gives more options to pvp. it also would give more options to those who would use the space for things other than sitting around afk. it would also increase the amount of people willing to use space in pve fashion and would provide more targets. as some have pointed out, I for one am looking forward to the new interceptor balance and its new role along with warp changes. this alone is said to make afk cloaking obsolete. I do not think so as there are many out there who either looking for easy isk by sitting in a system waiting to be paid to leave or have a grudge to grind and want to deny space. AFK cloaking is a cheap way to cause disruption in a system or constellation. that is what I am seeking to balance.
|
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
2994
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:17:00 -
[71] - Quote
Nofearion wrote:thanks for the reply Nikk, but as you know you have not addressed the issue. If I was a renter I might agree with your tactics. As one who does pay the price to live in null, and again I do not rent. I want to remove hostels from whatever systems I want to use. here are some facts to keep in mind. If I did not want local -I would still live in a wormhole. there is still a lot of that space left unused as well. If I wanted to gimp my pvp fit to escape I would simply rent space - Note i'm not a big ratter, and yes I mine but it is not my main profession. as to intelligence gathering and system use, Technically speaking no the system is not shut down. Let me ask you this, how many empty systems do you fly through to get a fight? Having the ability to deal directly with a cloaked ship gives more options to pvp. it also would give more options to those who would use the space for things other than sitting around afk. it would also increase the amount of people willing to use space in pve fashion and would provide more targets. as some have pointed out, I for one am looking forward to the new interceptor balance and its new role along with warp changes. this alone is said to make afk cloaking obsolete. I do not think so as there are many out there who either looking for easy isk by sitting in a system waiting to be paid to leave or have a grudge to grind and want to deny space. AFK cloaking is a cheap way to cause disruption in a system or constellation. that is what I am seeking to balance.
Answering the underlined more specifically: I don't go looking for fights so much, I am a miner.
As such, I rely on hostiles to act as a filter, and get rid of those who would also be miners. I prefer if they are more effective against other alliances or corps, but either way the quality of my efforts is more significant rather than the quantity here. As the hostiles are mostly impotent on this aspect, I instead observe the returns on my time being somewhat limited.
The problem you are facing, is that hostile free environments are not normal. If you avoid them too often, you lose the will to take risks or operate at all with them present.
Being around players flying spaceships, who want to blow you up, is the point of the game, remember? Call their bluff. Make them unwilling to risk confrontation instead, or take it on your terms. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Nofearion
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC The Kadeshi
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 21:03:00 -
[72] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Nofearion wrote:thanks for the reply Nikk, but as you know you have not addressed the issue. If I was a renter I might agree with your tactics. As one who does pay the price to live in null, and again I do not rent. I want to remove hostels from whatever systems I want to use. here are some facts to keep in mind. If I did not want local -I would still live in a wormhole. there is still a lot of that space left unused as well. If I wanted to gimp my pvp fit to escape I would simply rent space - Note i'm not a big ratter, and yes I mine but it is not my main profession. as to intelligence gathering and system use, Technically speaking no the system is not shut down. Let me ask you this, how many empty systems do you fly through to get a fight? Having the ability to deal directly with a cloaked ship gives more options to pvp. it also would give more options to those who would use the space for things other than sitting around afk. it would also increase the amount of people willing to use space in pve fashion and would provide more targets. as some have pointed out, I for one am looking forward to the new interceptor balance and its new role along with warp changes. this alone is said to make afk cloaking obsolete. I do not think so as there are many out there who either looking for easy isk by sitting in a system waiting to be paid to leave or have a grudge to grind and want to deny space. AFK cloaking is a cheap way to cause disruption in a system or constellation. that is what I am seeking to balance.
Answering the underlined more specifically: I don't go looking for fights so much, I am a miner. As such, I rely on hostiles to act as a filter, and get rid of those who would also be miners. I prefer if they are more effective against other alliances or corps, but either way the quality of my efforts is more significant rather than the quantity here. As the hostiles are mostly impotent on this aspect, I instead observe the returns on my time being somewhat limited. The problem you are facing, is that hostile free environments are not normal. If you avoid them too often, you lose the will to take risks or operate at all with them present. Being around players flying spaceships, who want to blow you up, is the point of the game, remember? Call their bluff. Make them unwilling to risk confrontation instead, or take it on your terms.
o.O
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
12063
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 22:00:00 -
[73] - Quote
Nofearion wrote:Jint Hikaru wrote:Nofearion wrote: Players should be active, Mechanics should support this.
If your intention is to claim that player should be active, then your solution should address all inactive players, not just cloakers. as for your reply to 1, making a ship scannable just because it has a cyno is a nerf to the cloak. If your problem is that a cloaked vessel can drop a cyno, then address that fact. Ask for the cyno to be tied into the drop-cloak targeting delay or something. 2. even with a crappy scanner all it takes is one ping to tell you if a cloaker is close to you. This has nothing to do with 'finding an AFK cloaker' as they will not be within 15Km of a warpable point anyway. 3. Once again it's the cloaked cyno ship thats a problem..... starting to see a pattern. Deal with the speed of a cyno pop and you are golden. 4. Go to Jita, so many people sending the same spam chat every minute, 23.5 hours a day. Thats a macro... CCP does eff-all. 4. Buy a wiggler, its a USB device that flicks the mouse one pixel left and right at a high speed. Used to keep machines from going into power save when you dont want to adjust the settings. also "there is not current mechanics for interaction with cloaked ships once established in system" There are may ways to interact and deal with a cloaker in a system. Not to mention, if you are that adiment that its 'your' system, why not protect it and not allow a red to become established in the first place. Are you actually suggesting and supporting that I and others use attachments and software to enable AFK game play? and if you are do you realize that you are advocating people to violate the EULA? as to the rest of your arguments I suggest you re read all the previous arguments.
I've never heard of "wigglers" but I'm not at all sure that they'd violate the EULA.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
855
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 08:32:00 -
[74] - Quote
My bad, they are called 'Jiggler'
Example of one
They simply jiggle the mouse slightly (or a lot if you want to prank a mate) so the computer does not detect inactivity.
As they do not automate any button presses or any type of in game controls I would imagine they do not violate the EULA.
I was merely pointing out the ease of fooling an inactivity logoff system, and in no way advocating any form of BOTing.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Nofearion
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC The Kadeshi
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 15:53:00 -
[75] - Quote
keep in mind to move a ship in a different direction a CLICK is required as such a button would need to be pressed. |
Nofearion
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC The Kadeshi
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 18:34:00 -
[76] - Quote
Initial post edited to bring the ideas of this discussion forward |
Baaldor
In Igne Morim Easily Excited
112
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 19:13:00 -
[77] - Quote
Nofearion wrote:In summary : We should have the Ability to hunt cloaked ships. Even more so if they are not active. If you do not like any of the suggestions made. Please give a viable suggestion for a mechanic that allows pilots to hunt and or interact with a cloaked vessel once established in a system.
This not an open discussion, it is a closed and narrow discussion. You want everyone to stay with in the perimeters you set. If yuo want an open honest discussion you are going have to listen to the player base that practices such tactics. You know the tactics they some how prevents you from doing whatever it is you have to do.
It has been brought up many times and yet you have not explained how an AFK cloaker prevent you from doing anything.
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
866
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 10:54:00 -
[78] - Quote
Nofearion wrote:In summary : We should have the Ability to hunt cloaked ships. Even more so if they are not active. If you do not like any of the suggestions made. Please give a viable suggestion for a mechanic that allows pilots to hunt and or interact with a cloaked vessel once established in a system.
Cloak should mean Cloak.
If a cloaked vessel manages to get itself established in your obviously poorly defended system, then you should fly in a way that protects yourself from an enemy vessel, after all this is Zero Security Space.
If it was up to me, a cloaked vessel would not appear on your all seeing eye of Local. After all its Local that is causing an AFK Cloaker to 'interact' with you.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Oswaldos
Sine Nobilitatis
13
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 17:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
I'm not a fan of local as in intel tool and to a lesser degree i'm not a fan of ships that are completely unscannable. I don't see the removal of local happening in K-space any time soon as too many people are opposed to it. However if the new warp mechanics allow for a substantial improvement on the ability to catch people at belts and titan bridging to some effect was rebalanced does anybody see a scanning down option for cloaked ships?
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Baaldor
In Igne Morim Easily Excited
116
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 18:12:00 -
[80] - Quote
Oswaldos wrote:I'm not a fan of local as in intel tool and to a lesser degree i'm not a fan of ships that are completely unscannable. I don't see the removal of local happening in K-space any time soon as too many people are opposed to it. However if the new warp mechanics allow for a substantial improvement on the ability to catch people at belts and titan bridging to some effect was rebalanced does anybody see a scanning down option for cloaked ships?
Not unless I can shoot whilst cloaked.
As it stands I can not do a god damned thing while i am cloaked. |
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AnJuan Jackson
Disingenuous Assertions
54
|
Posted - 2013.10.16 00:26:00 -
[81] - Quote
Not saying this should be fixed, because this is EVE after all, but...
You can call this "hunting", but with no method for people to hunt you back, it seems like a stupid annoyance to people trying to play the game. The only solution people are given is "dock up and don't do anything." Oh, that's cool. This jagoff could be alt tabbing and playing around on facebook for hours, but if i try to do something for two minutes he's probably going to come back and gank me.
Maybe I should facebook friend him, we can play farmville since we're going to do **** all in EVE while we wait for eachother. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
992
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 15:54:00 -
[82] - Quote
Remove Cloaked ships from local, problem solved. The Tears Must Flow |
AnJuan Jackson
Disingenuous Assertions
54
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:14:00 -
[83] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Remove Cloaked ships from local, problem solved.
Actually, you have something here. Remove afk people from local, and this problem goes away. When he comes back from afk, cloaked guy appears in local, giving the same kinda of "oh ****" reaction people annoyed with this problem expect to have. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
874
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 08:01:00 -
[84] - Quote
AnJuan Jackson wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Remove Cloaked ships from local, problem solved. Actually, you have something here. Remove afk people from local, and this problem goes away. When he comes back from afk, cloaked guy appears in local, giving the same kinda of "oh ****" reaction people annoyed with this problem expect to have.
two points:
1. I have yet to read an idea of how to determine if someone is AFK or not that cannot be bypassed or does not log out someone who is simply sitting cloaked watching and waiting.
2. Dropping someone in and out of local based on whether they are [moving, clicking the mouse, chatting in corp chat, clicking on their wallet] or not, does not simulate the actions of a Cloak. You are either cloaked or not. If I was in a covert ops vessel, cloaked, doing nothing but watching some target, your system would have me drop from local. But if i moved (Still cloaked) or even spoke in corp chat, you would have me appear back in local.
I fully agree with AnJuan, any cloaked vessel should drop out of local.
Some proposals to balance this:
- They are denied local as intel while cloaked. (they dont know who has entered system, cant see local chat etc - the cloakers intel needs to come from sneaking around and looking for people) - Maybe a minute delay on dropping out of local, so they appear for a minute when they enter a system. (gives the residents a clue that someone may be in system) - Some form of delay on cyno popping, I understand this is one of the major concerns with AFK Cloakers.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Nofearion
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC The Kadeshi
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 14:29:00 -
[85] - Quote
Should a cloaked ship drop from local, the people who are active in the systems would not know of his/her presence. Result, this would make it even easier to hot drop and apply force projection on any target in the system. This would increase the element of surprise. It would be a gankers dream come true. you would be able to operate in any system with impunity. should not the local in habitats have any tools to prevent protect or combat this?
Most of you who post on this thread would say no. we want free reign to hot drop or gank who we want whenever we want and we do not want them to know about it until it happens. If you do not believe this is a fair assessment than go back and re read what you have posted.
The effect of this is before long you would not have anyone to Gank as they "prey" would simply go play other games. No one wants to play a game where there is such an imbalance that you cannot do anything "yes properly fitted ships and aligned out would not matter as you the ganker would just bring enough to counter" You would effectively over hunt and no more fun for anyone.
Your job is too easy as it is. you sit in a system cloaked, check d scan every hour or so while you post pink ponies on facebook waiting for someone to be stupid. or you do it out of spite knowing the those who are there can do nothing while you are cloaked. so you log in in the morning on that account and leave it all day while you play on another account. Please explain how the play of the above is balanced ?
AFK or not I want to hunt you if you cloak up in my system. if you are active the hunt will be more challenging but not impossible as it is now. |
Baaldor
In Igne Morim Easily Excited
125
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 15:15:00 -
[86] - Quote
Nofearion wrote:Should a cloaked ship drop from local, the people who are active in the systems would not know of his/her presence. Result, this would make it even easier to hot drop and apply force projection on any target in the system. This would increase the element of surprise. It would be a gankers dream come true. you would be able to operate in any system with impunity. should not the local in habitats have any tools to prevent protect or combat this?
Most of you who post on this thread would say no. we want free reign to hot drop or gank who we want whenever we want and we do not want them to know about it until it happens. If you do not believe this is a fair assessment than go back and re read what you have posted.
The effect of this is before long you would not have anyone to Gank as they "prey" would simply go play other games. No one wants to play a game where there is such an imbalance that you cannot do anything "yes properly fitted ships and aligned out would not matter as you the ganker would just bring enough to counter" You would effectively over hunt and no more fun for anyone.
Your job is too easy as it is. you sit in a system cloaked, check d scan every hour or so while you post pink ponies on facebook waiting for someone to be stupid. or you do it out of spite knowing the those who are there can do nothing while you are cloaked. so you log in in the morning on that account and leave it all day while you play on another account. Please explain how the play of the above is balanced ?
AFK or not I want to hunt you if you cloak up in my system. if you are active the hunt will be more challenging but not impossible as it is now.
Even though local is used as an intel tool, CCP states that it is not intended be so, Kind of like the political speak, but we have to just deal with it.
Here is the issue I have when I read these threads it becomes two camps kind of mantra. The reality is in NULL, we ALL live under the same circumstances, and rules.
We ALL have to deal with a cloaky possibly sitting on the Cyno bridge, or where ever.
All of us have to grind up isk to pay for ships or shiny bobbles.
All of US have to deal with hot drops in lo-sec.
You are not a special snowflake that only you and your little buddies dealing with this. We all do.
And most of us have learned how to deal with it. And turn around and use the same tactics on the other guy.
What most line members lose sight of, is that this tactic is not to signal out just you, you are not that special. (Unless of course your space rage is so great, that posting your rage in local on their forums makes for a great thread.)
It is used to starve the corp or alliance. It is used to cause havoc and internal strife with in the alliance / corp.
And it apparently works very well.
It is a viable method, tactic and apparently way above your pay-grade.
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Nofearion
sleep Deprivation INC. LLC The Kadeshi
32
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:05:00 -
[87] - Quote
Baaldor - Yes I know how to deal with it, and No I am not a special snowflake and nor do I alone and my friends feel special. We all know how to deal with. The problem that you and others do not address is that in dealing with it results in lots of space remaining unused. This is something we should have tools to deal with, that is all we are asking for. A lot of the bigger entities in Null, even ones hostile to each other have pacts agreeing not to cloaky camp each other. Yes we all have the same set of rules. And the purpose of this forum Assembly Hall is to bring forth ideas and changes to those rules that will help the game improve. I am not space raging. to be honest I make most of my isk in Jita and if I like could play without un docking to make isk for my other account to pvp with. That would be boring. Point being I really like this game I think there are areas to improve, Balancing the AFK cloaker is one of those areas.
If you like the status quo then you are entitled to your opinion. I welcome open discussion of Pro's and con's for improvements of the game we all play. |
AnJuan Jackson
Disingenuous Assertions
54
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Posted - 2013.10.18 18:15:00 -
[88] - Quote
Well, I believe ALL afk people should be dropped from local, (regardless of what they are doing.)
This idea of cloaked people leaving Local is interesting but not quite what I would do, as it will cause even MORE panic. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
3039
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:00:00 -
[89] - Quote
AnJuan Jackson wrote:Well, I believe ALL afk people should be dropped from local, (regardless of what they are doing.)
This idea of cloaked people leaving Local is interesting but not quite what I would do, as it will cause even MORE panic.
Edit: As for why this is preferable, the ship wouldn't be removed from space. AFK miners are still there, AFK cloakers are STILL there. People just wouldn't necessarily know, but when someone is infact active in their vessel they will join local again. You can't assume where these people are, but at least you know they are PLAYING and not fapping. Local is a chat channel.
The unintended fact that it can be used for intel in many ways, does not remove this as the primary reason for it's existence.
Local providing intel that influences decision making in the game, dumbs down game play. We should be earning the intel, not having it handed to us.
When we earn something, we can compete to out perform other players, and in turn get better results. By giving us perfect results for free, intel is dropped from competition except in the remaining areas not being defined by local. You expect these conditions in a tutorial, where you are learning the game, not to have such impact in areas widely considered end game by many. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Baaldor
In Igne Morim Easily Excited
129
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:18:00 -
[90] - Quote
Nofearion wrote:Baaldor - Yes I know how to deal with it, and No I am not a special snowflake and nor do I alone and my friends feel special. We all know how to deal with. The problem that you and others do not address is that in dealing with it results in lots of space remaining unused. This is something we should have tools to deal with, that is all we are asking for. A lot of the bigger entities in Null, even ones hostile to each other have pacts agreeing not to cloaky camp each other. Yes we all have the same set of rules. And the purpose of this forum Assembly Hall is to bring forth ideas and changes to those rules that will help the game improve. I am not space raging. to be honest I make most of my isk in Jita and if I like could play without un docking to make isk for my other account to pvp with. That would be boring. Point being I really like this game I think there are areas to improve, Balancing the AFK cloaker is one of those areas.
If you like the status quo then you are entitled to your opinion. I welcome open discussion of Pro's and con's for improvements of the game we all play.
Dude, it is just this simple.
The AFK cloaker is in your head. There is no fix from CCP.
You, the dude behind the key board is allowing mr. spooky to get in your head.
There is nothing in game they are doing to you to prevent you to do what ever you want to do.
And especially if there are so much unused space...go use it, because the cloaker is not there. And if he follows you he is not as AFK as you thought.
And what bigger entities? If they have a pact then they are in a for a world of hurt. Especially if they fly NRDS. |
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