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Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
192
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Posted - 2013.09.27 18:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
If certain somebodys in Amamake can use smartbombing battleships to kill frigates on gates, why can't you? |
Ilaister
Task Force Proteus Protean Concept
10
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Posted - 2013.09.27 18:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I've been traveling around through almost every region of nullsec since 2009 (often in ab frig hulls), and while the occasional camp will nab me, it is NOT hard to travel safely about. That is why this change to interceptors really, really isn't needed!!!!!
So.... in all those years you've never been to a system that you can't avoid a bubble using celestials? |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2624
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Posted - 2013.09.27 18:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:If certain somebodys in Amamake can use smartbombing battleships to kill frigates on gates, why can't you?
Generally speaking, because the traps I set usually involve people chasing me around and landing with me in a bubble. I usually don't sit 6 km's off a gate with smartbombs running hoping a noob will warp through the blast radius.
I'm not worried about a lack of kills on my killboard, I'm worried about the direction of this change: Making it safer to travel through nullsec.
Covert cloak ships and MWD-Cloak Ships had to contend with bubbles. Fairly balanced. Add in Nullified syb-systems, limited to t3's... Prefer not, but fairly limited to hulls. These can also be decloaked. Add in MJD-Cloak ships (which are immune to bubbles), but limited to BS's. These are more easily decloaked, and still limited.
Now add interceptors to the list of "safe travel nullsec ships"... why? what good does this do? We don't need safer nullsec travel!
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1295
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Posted - 2013.09.27 18:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Grey Beard wrote:Solution :
Do something other then camping gates.
Not empty quoting.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2625
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Posted - 2013.09.27 19:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ilaister wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:I've been traveling around through almost every region of nullsec since 2009 (often in ab frig hulls), and while the occasional camp will nab me, it is NOT hard to travel safely about. That is why this change to interceptors really, really isn't needed!!!!!
So.... in all those years you've never been to a system that you can't avoid a bubble using celestials?
There are only a handful of systems with bubbles you can't avoid using celestials. Do they exist, sure. Do we need interceptors to be able to travel through these systems? No, we don't. We already have covops ships, nullified t3's, and MJD Battleships. Why do we need or want nullified interceptors?
Frankly, those are the system that I purposely fly my interceptor INTO the bubbles so I can get tackle on a gate campers. If I'm out solo, and ill-prepared to deal with the very predictable campers, I simply avoid those systems!
We don't need nullified interceptors! They really are just the next generation of interdiction nullified tier 3's, so I'm-to-lazy-to-have-bookmarks and I'm-to-dumb-to-avoid-hostiles don't have to think when traveling through nullsec. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
Sniggwaffe WAFFLES.
261
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Posted - 2013.09.27 19:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
JinSanJong wrote:Why should you be able to go afk and still have ppl dragged into bubbles!? There is no counter for these except and expensive t3! It is called piloting. Bounce off a celestial. Diapers |
Caviar Liberta
Moira. Villore Accords
178
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Posted - 2013.09.27 19:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sebo'd instalockers will still catch them if you aren't sleeping. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2625
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Posted - 2013.09.27 19:16:00 -
[38] - Quote
Caviar Liberta wrote:Sebo'd instalockers will still catch them if you aren't sleeping.
I agree. And I'll be sure to bring a sebo'd ares rather than a sabre when out roaming. That's not the point though.
Who really benefits from this change? -- The inty that cant be asked to get bookmarks in their region of travel, so they can move about more safely. -- The inty that stupidly warps gate-to-gate when hostiles are in system.
Who do many of the nay-sayers in this thread wrongly think will be hit: -- Gate campers that sit on a bubble all day, because they're smart enough to bring an insta-lock ship with them!
This change doesn't improve the game, it dumbs it down for the ill-prepared. It encourages carebears to bubble wrap their gates, cause now they can travel in and out of system easily with a cheap interceptor.
This change is just bad! |
Schmata Bastanold
The brothers inc WHYS0 Expendable
983
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Posted - 2013.09.27 19:28:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think you are too focused on inties change and you are missing core feature announced yesterday. There will be nobody in null for you to chase or try to bait into traps after Rubicon hits TQ, all null dwellers will be in hisec taking over POCOs and killing game. That's what "paying customers" say so it must be true. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3504
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Posted - 2013.09.27 19:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Your both missing the big picture...
I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble. An inty pilot enters system and warps to my gate feeling overconfident because they have a fleet behind them. The inty lands in my bubble, I destroy him, and warp out as his fleet lands. This provides several advantages, especially the ability to be "at zero" on the inty when it lands. This also only catches the overconfident moronic inty pilots that don't have bookmarks, and warp gate to gate. This is a very reasonable playstyle for beginner solo pilots in frigs and the like.
With this change, the status quo will move to insta-locking RSB ships on a gate. IMO, I think insta-locking ships are ridiculous, not to mention much harder to avoid than a simple drag bubble.
I think you've somehow now blinded by something, and refuse to see how incredibly weak your cause here is.
Do you actually claim that killing newbro inty pilots with drag bubbles and bailing before pvp happens is a very reasonable playstyle? Is that your "big picture"? Seriously, Agony?
Seriously,we won't be bringing back the old unique ships for events. We might give other stuff away that is interesting, but no Guardian Vexor, Opux Luxury Yacht, Fedthron, Impoc, SIR, etc, etc.-á |
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1592
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Posted - 2013.09.27 19:33:00 -
[41] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: This change is just bad!
For solo bubble campers, sure.
For small gangs that want to take a squad of inties out and troll nullsec, it's a great change. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2625
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Posted - 2013.09.27 19:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
Roime wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Your both missing the big picture...
I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble. An inty pilot enters system and warps to my gate feeling overconfident because they have a fleet behind them. The inty lands in my bubble, I destroy him, and warp out as his fleet lands. This provides several advantages, especially the ability to be "at zero" on the inty when it lands. This also only catches the overconfident moronic inty pilots that don't have bookmarks, and warp gate to gate. This is a very reasonable playstyle for beginner solo pilots in frigs and the like.
With this change, the status quo will move to insta-locking RSB ships on a gate. IMO, I think insta-locking ships are ridiculous, not to mention much harder to avoid than a simple drag bubble.
I think you've somehow now blinded by something, and refuse to see how incredibly weak your cause here is. Do you actually claim that killing newbro inty pilots with drag bubbles and bailing before pvp happens is a very reasonable playstyle? Is that your "big picture"? Seriously, Agony?
It is one of many tactics used in Assymetric Engagements. Quite often we run into situations where we have quite a bit fewer targets than our opponent. Setting up traps to kill their scouts and get out. Using bubbles to split their fleet to engage-able chunks, etc.
I see this change as generally a means to make nullsec safer, which is the wrong direction.
Realize, there are several incoming features that I believe will be great for nullsec PvP, I just think more interdiction nullified ships is a bad thing! |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
270
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Posted - 2013.09.27 20:16:00 -
[43] - Quote
From a gatecamp perspective, the solution to this has existed for some time in the form of remote sensor boosters. Remote sebo a thrasher, interceptor, or dissolution sequenced Legion/Loki and you can lock anyone before they cloak/warp. This has been done for some time in lowsec, so you don't even have to adapt that much really, just copy what others have been doing for years.
Likewise, they did not remove "splitting a gang," they simply changed it. Now, if an enemy fleet warps to the sun (that is bubbled), the interceptors will be separated from the main fleet, and you can pick them off. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
102
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Posted - 2013.09.27 20:17:00 -
[44] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: I get most of my inty kills by setting up a drag bubble.
Translation: I am a one trick pony who fears having to master new tactics. This is a nerf to bubbles, which are used to control the engagement range at the start of a fight in many, many situations. Want to durka that goon hornet gang, put a bubble at the sun, and as they are chasing you, warp to it and smartbomb. Now all inty pilots will warp in at 20 km's and be safe. I could give other examples, but generally speaking, when you want to catch a fast ship, it is ideal to start the engagement at zero. Bubbles are the most common means to do this, and the new inty mechanics essentially make an significant class of these ships immune.
think of it less as fewer inties dieing and more as a lot more fleeing fleets having stagglers tackled. Having smaller ships being able to arrive faster than big ships is hugely desirable and one of many changes i am excited about. |
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
19
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Posted - 2013.09.27 20:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
I am definitely in favor of this change. One of the best examples I can personally think of was chasing a gang of Nagas in my Crow. I was chasing them gate to gate with our main fleet lagging behind me, and I wasn't able to catch them to tackle one, because of defensive bubbles and unequal warp speeds. An Interceptor should be able to catch Battlecruisers and larger ships, and force the fleet to turn and engage to safe their compatriot, or leave him to die.
I am worried about the mention of an HP nerf to Interceptors, as they die quickly, and rely on speed and signature tanking as it stands. At least with the Crow the lack of midslots makes it hard to defend, even with EWAR or a MSE. It's a tough line to tread staying in point range and not getting scrammed and dying, or killed before your fleet arrives, and obviously takes a lot of experience in manual flying to get right.
I have no problem with the reduced cargo space, that seems like a fair tradeoff for speed. Preventing Interceptors from tackling and lighting cynos seems balanced as well. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2625
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 20:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:I am definitely in favor of this change. One of the best examples I can personally think of was chasing a gang of Nagas in my Crow. I was chasing them gate to gate with our main fleet lagging behind me, and I wasn't able to catch them to tackle one, because of defensive bubbles and unequal warp speeds. An Interceptor should be able to catch Battlecruisers and larger ships, and force the fleet to turn and engage to safe their compatriot, or leave him to die.
I am worried about the mention of an HP nerf to Interceptors, as they die quickly, and rely on speed and signature tanking as it stands. At least with the Crow the lack of midslots makes it hard to defend, even with EWAR or a MSE. It's a tough line to tread staying in point range and not getting scrammed and dying, or killed before your fleet arrives, and obviously takes a lot of experience in manual flying to get right.
I have no problem with the reduced cargo space, that seems like a fair tradeoff for speed. Preventing Interceptors from tackling and lighting cynos seems balanced as well.
I love the warp acceleration change.... I just think defensive bubbling should be a viable tactic to slow you down! I'm really not a fan of interdiction nullified ships, and I see no good reason to make interceptors nullified!
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Ahriantis
AHRINATION
2
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Posted - 2013.09.27 20:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
This is a tear-thread about a change that benefits everyone but the solo-bubblers/gate campers. The change is coming and it's pretty much final. Learn a new trick. |
Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2013.09.27 20:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Sounds like a refreshing change.
I like these new counters becoming part of the hull instead of just adding new mods.
It seems like the OP just wants to protect a niche style of gameplay at the expense of moving the game forward.
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Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
349
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Posted - 2013.09.27 21:08:00 -
[49] - Quote
This assumes that facilitating movement is a bad thing. Making camping effective encourage people to sit on their asses and results in less actual interesting content. |
Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
10
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Posted - 2013.09.27 21:13:00 -
[50] - Quote
Another stealth sabre nerf. Hey lets make the only ship class left it can still kill bubble immune! **** this gay game.
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Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
19
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Posted - 2013.09.27 21:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Ransu Asanari wrote:I am definitely in favor of this change. One of the best examples I can personally think of was chasing a gang of Nagas in my Crow. I was chasing them gate to gate with our main fleet lagging behind me, and I wasn't able to catch them to tackle one, because of defensive bubbles and unequal warp speeds. An Interceptor should be able to catch Battlecruisers and larger ships, and force the fleet to turn and engage to safe their compatriot, or leave him to die.
I am worried about the mention of an HP nerf to Interceptors, as they die quickly, and rely on speed and signature tanking as it stands. At least with the Crow the lack of midslots makes it hard to defend, even with EWAR or a MSE. It's a tough line to tread staying in point range and not getting scrammed and dying, or killed before your fleet arrives, and obviously takes a lot of experience in manual flying to get right.
I have no problem with the reduced cargo space, that seems like a fair tradeoff for speed. Preventing Interceptors from tackling and lighting cynos seems balanced as well. I love the warp acceleration change.... I just think defensive bubbling should be a viable tactic to slow you down! I'm really not a fan of interdiction nullified ships, and I see no good reason to make interceptors nullified!
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Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
10
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Posted - 2013.09.27 21:17:00 -
[52] - Quote
They were ALREADY nearly impossible to catch WITHOUT bubble immunity. If this change goes through, they will be untouchable. Its ridiculous anyone thinks this is a good idea.
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Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2013.09.27 21:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ribeye Jaksom wrote:Another stealth sabre nerf. Hey lets make the only ship class left it can still kill, that it SPECIALIZED in killing, bubble immune! **** this gay game.
Adapt or die.
The inties adapted.
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Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
11
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Posted - 2013.09.27 21:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tikitina wrote:Ribeye Jaksom wrote:Another stealth sabre nerf. Hey lets make the only ship class left it can still kill, that it SPECIALIZED in killing, bubble immune! **** this gay game. Adapt or die. The inties adapted.
shut up nerd
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Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2013.09.27 21:40:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ribeye Jaksom wrote:
shut up nerd
Ha!
Priceless example of having no real argument.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2626
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tikitina wrote:Sounds like a refreshing change.
I like these new counters becoming part of the hull instead of just adding new mods.
It seems like the OP just wants to protect a niche style of gameplay at the expense of moving the game forward.
......
Priceless example of having no real argument.
How about you put forward your argument:
How does bubble immunity help the interceptor? --- Hint: The interceptor class generally chases ships. If it warps to a gate chasing another ship, but ignores bubbles, that means it doesn't land near it's desired target, inhibiting its ability as chaser tackle.
How exactly does this "move the game forward"? --- Hint: If your answer can be summed up as, it enables safer movement throughout nullsec for interceptors, why are you using an interceptor to begin with when a covops performs that role?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16687
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Posted - 2013.09.27 21:54:00 -
[57] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:How does bubble immunity help the interceptor? --- Hint: The interceptor class generally chases ships. If it warps to a gate chasing another ship, but ignores bubbles, that means it doesn't land near it's desired target, inhibiting its ability as chaser tackle. GǪbut the target is tackled, as intended, so it works out very nicely.
Quote:How exactly does this "move the game forward"? By introducing new tactics and proper operational manoeuvring and requiring something more clever than just dumping bubbles everywhere, thereby smartening up the game considerably for everyone involved.
Since tactics to catch these interceptors have already been developed (or more accurately have been there all along), not even the potential problem of making them difficult to kill exists. All around an excellent change of mechanics. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 21:59:00 -
[58] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Tikitina wrote:Sounds like a refreshing change.
I like these new counters becoming part of the hull instead of just adding new mods.
It seems like the OP just wants to protect a niche style of gameplay at the expense of moving the game forward.
......
Priceless example of having no real argument.
How about you put forward your argument: How does bubble immunity help the interceptor? --- Hint: The interceptor class generally chases ships. If it warps to a gate chasing another ship, but ignores bubbles, that means it doesn't land near it's desired target, inhibiting its ability as chaser tackle. For one, It allows inties to avoid the delaying tactics of Dictors dropping bubbles to help their group disengage a pursuing group as one exampleHow exactly does this "move the game forward"? --- Hint: If your answer can be summed up as, it enables safer movement throughout nullsec for interceptors, why are you using an interceptor to begin with when a covops performs that role? It creates the possibility of new gameplay by breaking some existing, what many consider stagnate, gameplay
Inline
Plus, the fact that intie pilots will have to account for their new found ability that can prevent them from catching someone who is caught by a bubble while they are not means that this new ability would be a dual edged sword, which is inline with what Eve is about.
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Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
75
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Posted - 2013.09.27 22:01:00 -
[59] - Quote
Montevius Williams wrote:I love the idea. Interceptors should be able to...you know...intercept.
This is a good move. I'm in this category. While I respect the OP's reasoning, I'm am swayed by CCP's concept of an interdictor having full reign of all the space they travel through.
The OP's objections are mostly on tactical grounds - that current tactics would be rendered unusable. I hear those objections, but I'll suggest that Eve capsuleers are a wily bunch who will quickly adapt with fresh, new, and maybe even more devestating tactics.
There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance. |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
277
|
Posted - 2013.09.27 22:07:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ribeye Jaksom wrote:They were ALREADY nearly impossible to catch WITHOUT bubble immunity. If this change goes through, they will be untouchable. Its ridiculous anyone thinks this is a good idea.
Well now you're just full of ****. Interceptors are the T2 ships that die the most in Eve, and always have been. I suppose none of those dead interceptors were "caught." |
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