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Nivo Green
Second Wallet
25
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Posted - 2013.09.29 02:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
With EVE Online's coming expansion CCP has claimed that high sec custom offices will be able to be replaced with POCO. Many people have claimed that this is either stupid, as high sec resource harvesting sucks, or that the nullsec evil cartels will ruin the game. Regardless of these claims, there are still a ton of people fully living in high sec, and no doubt a large amount of higher tier PI production takes place in high sec around the hubs.
Until now this has always been NPC taxed as an isk sink, but with the coming change this will go away for all significant traffic highsec customs offices. My question to CCP is is this a significant ISK sink, and if it is what are they doing to counteract the loss of it if anything at all? If CCP thinks that there will be profitable customs offices, then they will be losing that tax with Rubicon. Looking at tier 4 PI components, there is about 500 billion ISK moved in that market a day globally, with about 45.9 billion moved daily in jita. Even if we only assumed 10% of this market was built in highsec planets, it still amounts to probably 25-50 billion isk a day which is getting taxed in highsec custom offices in t4 alone. Thats about 2.5 to 5 billion isk removed per day if its only 10%. This is not that significant at 10%, but I believe that quiet a lot more PI happens in high sec, and I did not even look at tier 2-3 products which are also likely produced.
Anyway CCP likely has much better data on this, and their choice to move forward with it likely means they either don't need the sink, or it's not that big of a deal. |
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
536
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Posted - 2013.09.29 03:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Theoretically the loss of the isk sink will be counteracted by the PI material sink of player destroyable POCOs, which will raise PI demand and thus reverberate all the way down to T2 production in the form of raising build costs. Whether the scale of POCO destruction will make up for the isk sink remains to be seen, and might be unlikely.
Of course Eve seems to be a bit short on the isk sink side of the equation right now, so I agree that it's a marginal move from an economic standpoint, but this change honestly won't shake the economy one way or another in the grand scheme of things. |
Skill Training Online
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
113
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Posted - 2013.09.29 03:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Your POCOs will be 100% safe in high-sec. Thank You Obama! |
Nivo Green
Second Wallet
25
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Posted - 2013.09.29 03:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Skill Training Online wrote:Your POCOs will be 100% safe in high-sec.
Perhaps CCP is just counting the ISK sink of buying new POCO BPC's to easily counteract the loss of taxes. I mean, there are a shitload of planets that will be getting new POCOs |
SpoonRECKLESS
LOGI R Us
48
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Posted - 2013.09.29 03:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
The amount of wars that will be started by this is the isk sink. Mercs will have even more useful role in high sec, Killing Pocos will become big money.I for one will enjoy the local banter to become common around heavy traffic areas. Blue
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James Amril-Kesh
Goonswarm Federation
5810
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Posted - 2013.09.29 04:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm sure highsec PI was such a significant ISK sink... My Youtube Videos Latest video: August 25, 2013 |
Nivo Green
Second Wallet
25
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Posted - 2013.09.29 04:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
SpoonRECKLESS wrote:The amount of wars that will be started by this is the isk sink. Mercs will have even more useful role in high sec, Killing Pocos will become big money.I for one will enjoy the local banter to become common around heavy traffic areas.
I agree, it will be awesome to see some real political landscape develop over the space the is High Sec. |
Daisai
Daisai Investments.
156
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Posted - 2013.09.29 04:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Poco and pos bashing and station games...
Isn't high sec pvp just awesome... |
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
48
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Posted - 2013.09.29 09:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
You do realise that you can set the tax rate right? Why would anyone go through the trouble of trashing your POCO if you have a low tax rate already? I'd rather just use the practically free structure that's already anchored in space than haul my own half way across the map just to gain 1-2 more mill a week ... |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
534
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Posted - 2013.09.29 09:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'd be more worried about people with the power to control highsec POCO's and imposing crazy tax levels. In turn, this could have significant effect on PI prices, and not to mention being a big generator of highsec PvP. Up until now carebears have been more than happy with interbus tax levels, using PI as a passive form of isk generation. This is going to change real quick once they've all been destroyed, and various corporations and alliances fight over control. Stable tax levels are going to be a thing of the past!
Still, signifcant profits can be made for those willing and able to control and hold onto highsec POCO dominance! Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
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baltec1
Bat Country
8101
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Posted - 2013.09.29 10:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nerf high sec level 4s. From november all mission rewards are reduced by 10 isk. |
Xorionna
Power Absolute Absolute Damage Inc.
0
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Posted - 2013.09.29 10:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote: Why would anyone go through the trouble of trashing your POCO if you have a low tax rate already?
For the killmail ? because it's not mine ? Because 50 of my corp mates are doing the same and we made a contest about it ? To loot the PI in the wreck ? Because if my office is not destroyed I'll be able to sell my PI at higher price ? To get some tears ? |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
2006
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Posted - 2013.09.29 10:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nerf high sec level 4s. From november all mission rewards are reduced by 10 isk.
Aye, and drop the bounties on nullsec rats and reduce incursion payouts too, so as not to victimize one form of income. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
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Posted - 2013.09.29 10:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:baltec1 wrote:Nerf high sec level 4s. From november all mission rewards are reduced by 10 isk. Aye, and drop the bounties on nullsec rats and reduce incursion payouts too, so as not to victimize one form of income.
No no just level 4s. That way we will get people who will read just the first part about a nerf and make ragenoughts we can all laugh at. |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1939
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Posted - 2013.09.29 11:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
mechtech wrote:Theoretically the loss of the isk sink will be counteracted by the PI material sink of player destroyable POCOs
Except destroying assets in an isolated system increases demand, and therefore the cost... which only exacerbates inflation. Any change in assets in Eve doesn't reduce or increase inflation, only the destruction or introduction of ISK does.
If we're losing an ISK sink, then inflation will be increased. No ifs and buts about it. Any change in amounts of assets by creation or destruction makes no difference. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
216
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Posted - 2013.09.29 11:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
$5 says someone monopolizes the POCOs and implements a 100% tax to shutdown all high-sec PI. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
49852
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Posted - 2013.09.29 11:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nivo Green wrote: My question to CCP is is this a significant ISK sink, and if it is what are they doing to counteract the loss of it if anything at all?
So, you are not even sure this is an issue at all, and you are whining in an Forum OP Poast about it ? Peter Marshall: In "Alice in Wonderland", who kept crying "I'm late, I'm late?"-á Paul Lynde: Alice, and her mother is sick about it. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
14084
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Posted - 2013.09.29 12:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
It's the natural follow on step from PI, both remove NPC influence from the marketplace. You can be pretty sure they ran it past Dr Eggnog, it certainly fits in with both what players have been asking for, and CCPs desire for a player driven economy. I am furnishing this post "as is" I do not provide any warranty whatsoever, whether express, implied, or statutory, including, but not limited to, any relevance or fitness for purpose or any warranty that the contents herein are error-free.
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Syds Sinclair
Aliastra Gallente Federation
67
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Posted - 2013.09.29 12:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
..At least CCP raised the cost of WarDecs exponentially to the number of members in a corp. What's the going rate of decing GoonWaffe? Gonna be pretty expensive to shoot all of their HiSec POCOs. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1536
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Posted - 2013.09.29 12:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:$5 says someone monopolizes the POCOs and implements a 100% tax to shutdown all high-sec PI.
If we're really lucky Goons will fall for this obvious CCP trap and their hold on null will be broken when a portion of their fleet is off protecting silly pocos while someone else is nibbling away at their nulpire. Don't ban me, bro! |
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James Amril-Kesh
Goonswarm Federation
5814
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Posted - 2013.09.29 16:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
Yeah that's likely. My Youtube Videos Latest video: August 25, 2013 |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
49923
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Posted - 2013.09.29 17:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:$5 says someone monopolizes the POCOs and implements a 100% tax to shutdown all high-sec PI.
Who cares what the tax level is ? Adjust market sell order prices accordingly. End of story. Peter Marshall: In "Alice in Wonderland", who kept crying "I'm late, I'm late?"-á Paul Lynde: Alice, and her mother is sick about it. |
Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
320
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Posted - 2013.09.29 17:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
SpoonRECKLESS wrote:The amount of wars that will be started by this is the isk sink. Mercs will have even more useful role in high sec, Killing Pocos will become big money.I for one will enjoy the local banter to become common around heavy traffic areas. Ships that blow up are now ISK sink. This does not remove ISK from the system. The only ISK involved in building a ship are the manufacturing job costs, which are a joke. On the contrary, if the ships are insured they become an ISK faucet because the ISK for those insurances comes from NPCs |
Aurilen Baxtab
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2013.09.29 17:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sale of PLEX will go up, essentially increasing the cost per month for subscribing to the game. Very clever. |
Adunh Slavy
1262
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Posted - 2013.09.29 18:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Considering that price inflation is modest, in an environment of massive monetary inflation, loosing out on a rather small portion of the sink isn't going to make much of an impact.
Also, if the time requirements with regards to destroying POCOs, building them, harvesting resources and defending them takes away from rat shooting activities, then the overall impact of the loss of taxes could not only be a wash, but might reduce monetary inflation.
The less time spent shooting rats, the less ISK enters the economy. Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
Winter Archipelago
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
117
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Posted - 2013.09.29 22:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP could easily overcome the loss of the high-sec POCO ISK sink by implementing the Bucket of Tears, a new novelty item thought up by a handsome fellow on the Ideas and Suggestions board.
Why, I bet making the Bucket of Tears the new ISK sink would completely take away CCP's need for any other ISK sink, ever! Ransoms are accepted in Isk, Ships, Mods, and Dolls. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2192
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Posted - 2013.09.29 22:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:$5 says someone monopolizes the POCOs and implements a 100% tax to shutdown all high-sec PI. Who cares what the tax level is ? Adjust market sell order prices accordingly. End of story. Will not work when people who own the POCO pay zero tax and can undercut you.
I think alot of posters did not get the point of the OP. A NPC tax removes ISK from the game and reduces the total in circulation. Players buying and selling POCO to each other, or ships that get blown up, do not remove ISK from the game.
There is a view that the ISK supply increases inflation. CCP's economics guy says thats not what causes inflation. What causes it is the velocity of money. That is how fast it changes hands. Inflation occurs when everyone wants to spend their money, irrelevant of how much they have. Deflation occurs when everyone holds on to their money, either too scared to spend or waiting for lower prices. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16709
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Posted - 2013.09.29 22:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Last we saw any numbers on it, PI stood for ~3.5bn outflux compared to the of the daily 2 trillion ISK flowing into the system. It compensated for a a whopping <2GǦ.
So yeah, BPOs and trading fees (and the simple fact that not every last customs office will be a POCO) will make keep that a rounding error on the overall scale of things. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Nivo Green
Second Wallet
26
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Posted - 2013.10.02 01:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
So CCP announced that they are leaving the NPC tax on top of the new player tax so this isn't even a valid question anymore.
/thread |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
880
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Posted - 2013.10.02 02:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Aivo Dresden wrote:You do realise that you can set the tax rate right? Why would anyone go through the trouble of trashing your POCO if you have a low tax rate already? I'd rather just use the practically free structure that's already anchored in space than haul my own half way across the map just to gain 1-2 more mill a week ...
I Lol'd. Eve is Real |
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