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Malrikk
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.09.29 07:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
As I'm sure you're all aware, come Rubicon they're adding a new heavy assault launcher for battleship class ships. (Battleship like DPS in a fast heavy launcher, to fight small to medium ships, but not quite cruise missile DPS in their words.)
How do you feel this will effect the Tengu in missions and PvP? Will the Raven completely eclipse it? |
Grimpak
Duty. The Cursed Few
1147
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Posted - 2013.09.29 07:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
if it does, awesome. if it doesn't, well who the **** cares anyway? [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Vordek Rei
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2013.09.29 07:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Battleship, repeat after me - Baaaattttllllleee - there that's good. Now say Strategic Cruiser, after me, Sttttrrrraaeeegggic - good good. Good boy now go out side and play. |
Grimpak
Duty. The Cursed Few
1147
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Posted - 2013.09.29 07:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vordek Rei wrote:Battleship, repeat after me - Baaaattttllllleee - there that's good. Now say Strategic Cruiser, after me, Sttttrrrraaeeegggic - good good. Good boy now go out side and play.
I don't care. I just want this thread to become a goddamn threadnaught. now where's the popcorn? [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Riyal
Fluffles Inc. xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
115
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Posted - 2013.09.29 07:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
I hear battleships are very fast and have a small signature radius, especially the Raven. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11887
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Posted - 2013.09.29 07:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
It's all about the rail tengu now anyway.
1 Kings 12:11
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Xearal
Black Thorne Corporation The Cursed Few
676
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Posted - 2013.09.29 08:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:It's all about the rail tengu now anyway.
But.. But.. But.. what about my civilian mining laser tengu?
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Shederov Blood
Wrecketeers
485
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Posted - 2013.09.29 08:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
So is the Tengu getting nerfed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g |
baltec1
Bat Country
8101
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Posted - 2013.09.29 08:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Soon. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4655
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Posted - 2013.09.29 08:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
So battleships will get to use heavy missiles, while the tengu is using HAMs
unless there are RAPID HAMS, all the hams everywhereeeeee There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
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ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate S0UTHERN C0MF0RT
2005
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Posted - 2013.09.29 09:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vordek Rei wrote:Battleship, repeat after me - Baaaattttllllleee - there that's good. Now say Strategic Cruiser, after me, Sttttrrrraaeeegggic - good good. Good boy now go out side and play.
Stra'egic? Oo arr oo arr where did I leave moi tra'or? COMBOIN ARVESTORRRRRRR Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |
Aivo Dresden
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
48
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Posted - 2013.09.29 09:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
It's about time really. Battleships should do more damage than cruisers. It's 2 ship sizes up. It's also about time these Tech 3 FoTM people start looking at other ships.
Don't worry though, your beloved Tengu isn't being touched. There are many other ships that already do more damage than Tengus in PvE content anyway, I don't really see the problem. |
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone Caldari State
543
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Posted - 2013.09.29 09:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
lol like those tech 3 guys aren't going to sit right in those battleships that are just as effective to them as you and still keep right on winning. |
Mr Pragmatic
663
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Posted - 2013.09.29 10:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Grrrrr tengu..... Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness. -á-Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4127
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Posted - 2013.09.29 10:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Malrikk wrote:As I'm sure you're all aware, come Rubicon they're adding a new heavy assault launcher for battleship class ships. (Battleship like DPS in a fast heavy launcher, to fight small to medium ships, but not quite cruise missile DPS in their words.)
How do you feel this will effect the Tengu in missions and PvP? Will the Raven completely eclipse it?
The Raven already applies more effective DPS than the Tengu. Nothing about the Raven is changing that will alter the balance between Raven and Tengu for mission-running: it's still a slow, clumsy steamroller. Now it will likely have better survivability against smaller targets, but it will no doubt lose some DPS in the bargain.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
216
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Posted - 2013.09.29 11:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Caldari battleships are getting a buff (confirmed), and Tengus are all but getting a nerf (hinted). I'd say game, set and match. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
411
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Posted - 2013.09.29 23:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Caldari battleships are getting a buff (confirmed), and Tengus are all but getting a nerf (hinted). I'd say game, set and match.
It's not just tengus, I surmise that all t3 are going to be hit with the nerf bat, as certain configurations can be well op. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Seraph Essael
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
107
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Posted - 2013.09.30 00:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Don't forget that the Tengu is considerably faster than the Raven... Amongst other things, this reason will mean that the Strategic Cruiser mission runners will probably still use the T3's for their missions... Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
stoicfaux
3174
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Posted - 2013.09.30 00:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
The T2 AML, err Rapid Light Launcher has a 20% rof bonus over the T2 LM launcher. So if we extrapolate that 20%, CNR: 8 / .8 = 10 effective HML/HAM launchers. versus Tengu: 6 * 1.25 / (1-.375) = 12 effective HML/HAM launchers. (Or 9.6 launchers going strictly by RoF, i.e. ignore the kinetic damage bonus.)
/meh |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16712
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Posted - 2013.09.30 00:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
It won't affect the Tengu in the slightest since it's a battleship module.
Ok, maybe a bit in PvP, where it'll be a weapon that can hit the Tengu with at least some precision, but mehGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
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To Be Me
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.09.30 00:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
Shhh nerds |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3452
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Posted - 2013.09.30 00:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Malrikk wrote:As I'm sure you're all aware, come Rubicon they're adding a new heavy assault launcher for battleship class ships. (Battleship like DPS in a fast heavy launcher, to fight small to medium ships, but not quite cruise missile DPS in their words.)
How do you feel this will effect the Tengu in missions and PvP? Will the Raven completely eclipse it?
Interesting.
I have a battle cruiser with rapid light launchers on it. The DPS is ALMOST that of a ship with HML, but not quite there.
Ultimately what I have is a BC that can take apart frigates. This is no big deal, since there were many tools already on the shelf for that purpose. So while the rapid light missile launchers are a neat concept AND they make a very cool sound too, I'm having trouble finding a use for them.
Now they are taking it a notch up, coming up with a rapid heavy launcher that can fit on battle ships. I think the idea would be a ship that can deliver a lot of damage to smaller class ships. But as before, there are already tools for it.
At the least, the variety should be applauded and welcomed, even if we have to scratch our heads and wonder what can be done with them. Another module that puts me in this situation is the Target Lock Breaker.
While a cruiser or BC with rapid LMLs can become a Q-ship styled death trap for tackle frigates, dictors, and destroyers, it's still a big target.
The same could be said of a battleship with a rapid heavy launcher - the DPS is down, but it's still going to be a big ship, slow, and easy to hit, and take more damage.
Therefore, in the aspect of "DPS as tank" - the means of which your DPS is part of your tank because it removes incoming DPS from the field, is entirely lost. Going "one down" on your ammo size, and being just short of the regular DPS you'd normally get from the more conventional fitting, is likely to create a situation where it's only a matter of time before losing your ship. You might have plenty of power left for tanking, but if you cannot remove the DPS from the field, that's a huge missing element of tanking.
So this observation and some scant work with my BC (having not had much time to actually fly it) I can only guess that ships fitted with these modules would be best suited for those situations where there is an expectation that you are only dealing with smaller ships or ships lacking in a tank. For example a BC with rapid LMLs can be terror for destroyers and frigates, but if another BC shows up, it's time to get out of there. I can imagine that a BS running a rapid heavy setup would be an ideal counter for those tier 3 BCs running heavy guns or launchers, like a Tornado. For here you have a BS running "one down" in ammo size more ideal for dealing with smaller hulls, and working against a ship that has "one up" in ammo size enabling it to destroy larger hulls.
Most notably, now that I think about it, the "one up" ships like the new battle cruisers and the stealth bomber have the large turret/launcher capability come at the expense of tanking capability and the "one down" modules, usable on any ship, enable them to deal with this threat but on great reliance to intel and a changing battlefield whereby the arrival of likewise hulls fitting more proper launchers brings the survivability of the former down drastically.
My prediction: The light and heavy rapid launchers will see great use in small gangs. I can see the caracel. a cruiser that has a bonus for SMALL missiles(!) running light rapid launchers evolving into a small gang tackle/dessie/drone wrecker. There will be a lot of trial and error. The day will come when people in the "tier 3" (as they were called before Tiericide) , going up against battleships for which their larger guns are not as effective, and having sacrificed a lot of DPS to field that, will cry foul against the new rapid heavy launcher on the claims that those fielding it didn't require a special hull to do so. Whether they are correct or not will be a topic hotly debated by the usual brigade of trolls and players resistant to adaptation.
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Tea Leaves
Abyssus Spatium Exploratorium The Big Dirty
18
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Posted - 2013.09.30 02:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Based on how things go, CCP should release a 'dual rapid light missile launcher' for BS class ships. That's what I'm waiting for anyhow... |
Maaaaowm Ogeko
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
31
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Posted - 2013.09.30 03:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Malrikk wrote:As I'm sure you're all aware, come Rubicon they're adding a new heavy assault launcher for battleship class ships. (Battleship like DPS in a fast heavy launcher, to fight small to medium ships, but not quite cruise missile DPS in their words.)
How do you feel this will effect the Tengu in missions and PvP? Will the Raven completely eclipse it?
Let's see ... the Raven is a big, slow battleship. The Tengu is a cruiser with the ability to fit subsystems that enable it to zip around with relative ease in areas where a mission-fit Raven would last three seconds.
So, no. Even after all these nerfs that Baltec is dying for, strategic cruisers will be useful for something.
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Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2124
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Posted - 2013.09.30 03:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
posting in a grr goons thread Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Sh0plifter
Underworld Initiative
16
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Posted - 2013.09.30 03:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Malrikk wrote:As I'm sure you're all aware, come Rubicon they're adding a new heavy assault launcher for battleship class ships. (Battleship like DPS in a fast heavy launcher, to fight small to medium ships, but not quite cruise missile DPS in their words.)
How do you feel this will effect the Tengu in missions and PvP? Will the Raven completely eclipse it? I can warp through bubbles. I can fit a covert OR normal cyno to my tengu. I can warp cloaked. I can find your ratting carriers and faction/t2 BS ratting alot better and faster then your raven will.
Just because of the new launcher doesn't mean any ship will be "outclassed" considering the Tengu is a Strategic Cruiser, medium class weapons. Then the raven is a battleshipwith large class weapons. It should have ALWAYS outdamaged the Tengu, it should have always out tanked the tengu. It should never be able to do all the other stuff a T3 can do because different class ships or different roles. |
Ryhss
Dry Atomic Fusion Gatekeepers Universe
108
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Posted - 2013.09.30 03:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Riyal wrote:I hear battleships are very fast and have a small signature radius, especially the Raven. Is that sarcasm I smell? I have been known to spam trade windows with spammers of Jita. It is quite satisfying when they convo you screaming about reporting me for it. It normally provokes me to open another trade window with them. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
230
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Posted - 2013.09.30 04:04:00 -
[28] - Quote
Raven - rebalanced. Tengu - nerf pending. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2013.09.30 04:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
it is my opinion that pure DPS race for sub-capital ships should have in following 1st Marauder 2nd BS 3rd HAC 4th T3
Cruiser that is specialization for dps should outdps Cruiser that is designed to be jack of all trade |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
1264
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Posted - 2013.09.30 04:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Malrikk wrote:As I'm sure you're all aware, come Rubicon they're adding a new heavy assault launcher for battleship class ships. (Battleship like DPS in a fast heavy launcher, to fight small to medium ships, but not quite cruise missile DPS in their words.)
How do you feel this will effect the Tengu in missions and PvP? Will the Raven completely eclipse it?
OP, you will learn quickly that there are a number of dedicated trolls, who appears to have one twisted joy in their life, which is denigrating any attempts at rational thought. They will respond almost instantly with a post trying to out-clever the next in line with the best insult they can come up with them.
Ignore them.
Now, that being said, you will find that CCP treats anything with non null-sec impact with disdain, much like the trolls. It is up to you to decide if it is worth posting valid points in the face of such opposition.
I for one hope that you do. Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |
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