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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
1995
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Posted - 2013.09.30 19:52:00 -
[61] - Quote
Looks nice, but I like cliking the "Get certificates" button. Not a *critical* issue, but it feels rewarding when the message pops and says "certificate earned". The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
JamnOne
Jammin Corp
10
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Posted - 2013.09.30 19:59:00 -
[62] - Quote
" and as each ship gets a set of certificates associated with it, players will also be able to see how well they can fly and fit them"
Just because a pilot has the skills doesn't mean he can fly! |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9177
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Posted - 2013.09.30 20:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
Shouldn't the master level navigation certificate require armor rigging 5 instead of astronautics rigging 5? It doesn't really make sense that a skill which reduces the armor penalty of rigs that are rarely used on any combat ship larger than a frigate would be required to master a battleship, or to master navigation at that. Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
435
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Posted - 2013.09.30 20:27:00 -
[64] - Quote
Andski wrote:Shouldn't the master level navigation certificate require armor rigging 5 instead of astronautics rigging 5? It doesn't really make sense that a skill which reduces the armor penalty of rigs that are rarely used on any combat ship larger than a frigate would be required to master a battleship, or to master navigation at that.
But what about my cargo expanders for all the navy 800's I bring with my Mega? |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
133
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Posted - 2013.09.30 20:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
Some sore points after reading the devblog (in no particular order):
The "Skill Requirement icon" (last screenshot in the blog) could use some work. They do not convey a progression and when looking at them individually (as opposed one next to the other) I'm not sure I'll remember what each one means. If you are going to go and use color, why limit yourself to gray/red/green/green. Please use more colors or better yet, redesign the little things so they look more cohesive and related to one another.
I will also miss the feeling of achievement when I went and claimed my certificates. Now it will all happen in the background with no sense of progress or success. Even something ala "skill level completed" notification would be nice.
How can I show how pro am I if all certificates are going to be private?? Checking through the API is ok for recruting directors or such paperpushers, b ut for the common folk that is waay to complicated.
Overall I like the changes! Keep them coming! |
Maxxor Brutor
Imperial Collective
3
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Posted - 2013.09.30 20:33:00 -
[66] - Quote
Never has it been easier to train a Tornado alt. |
Soaran Sikadi
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
4
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Posted - 2013.09.30 20:35:00 -
[67] - Quote
The new certificate system, especially with more fine grained notions of competence at flying a given ship, seems like it could be extraordinarily useful to new players. It seems to be a framework that could solve many of the problems with the current certificate system, namely the extremely coarse grain of the reccomendations and the inability to tell until you are an older player which certificates might actually be useful.
Unfortunately, in the screenshots shown, many skills which are largely irrelevant are being labeled as useful, and often suggested to be trained to 5, largely negating the point of such certificates. As an example, take the suggestion to train "Astronautics Rigging" to 5 in order to have top level competency in Megathron piloting, as shown here.
I am not sure I have ever seen a Megathron with an astronautics rig fit, even on an ALOD-style killmail. Looking through the list on that sample, there are other similarly irrelevant or overkill skills, this is just one blatant example. The usefulness of a certification system lies not in the breadth of what it suggest you train, but in the specificity.
It seems that this issue draws out of the decision to link a ship against a list of other certificates, rather than pruning them to what might be reccomended or useful for the ship, e.g. there is likely just a "Navigation V" certificate that the Megathron cert is suggesting, which has a number of useful things, and also some not useful things. While I'm aware it might be a bit of a pain, or take some time, I think it might be more useful to make per-ship lists of skills, and categorize them by which of those other overarching certificates they are from, rather than just wholesale pasting the certificates in. For example, in the case of the Megathron, you'd know that if you had Navigation V you'd fill useful requirements at the high level, but if you opened it up you would not see the whole certificate listed. For example, you would likely see Acceleration Control to 4 or 5, but not Astronautics Rigging at all. If you selected skills that were from different levels (e.g. if you suggested MJD skill to 4, but Acceleration Control to 5) you could just pick the higher level of the certificate to display. In this system, the first display would be a list of certificates which are sufficient, but not necessary, and then when you drilled down you would see the precise skills that are useful for that hull. This would allow players to still easily determine what is useful for a ship, while at a glance being able to tell which broader certificates would be useful across multiple hulls at a glance.
I'd like to see this system succeed, but if the skill lists in the dev post are any indication of what is actually intended for release, I would like to suggest you take a hard look at pruning the certificates to something more reasonable. |
Dracnys
32
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Posted - 2013.09.30 20:41:00 -
[68] - Quote
I see a problem with putting skills like Astronautics Rigging V on the same level of importance as Navigation V. Everyone should train Navigation V but only maybe 1% of players use astronautics rigs excessively enough to warrant the rigging skill to V. If you put both in the same tier of ship mastery it looks like they are about equally important to the ship and overall.
Maybe add in a sixth "uber elite" tier that requires skills that even most veteran characters with 50m SP and more don't have. These would be for example Tactical Shield Manipulation V, Rigging Skills V, Shield and Armor Resistances to V and so on. Newbies should not waste their time training those for poor returns compared to their returns for training say Engineering V.
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Dirk Morbho
Mindstar Technology Fatal Ascension
6
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Posted - 2013.09.30 20:52:00 -
[69] - Quote
Outstanding devblog. These changes look REALLY solid!
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Soaran Sikadi
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
5
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Posted - 2013.09.30 20:53:00 -
[70] - Quote
On a side note, this would be a really cool thing to integrate with CREST, corp fittings, and corp certificates. Imagine this:
1.) Corp or alliance fitting guru sits in an external program like EFT or pyfa, making fits. 2.) Program uses CREST to send the fit, with a corresponding ranked certificate generated by the program for efficiency of flying that fit, to the eve servers for the corporation. 3.) Player who wants to fly in a fleet using that fit can see what skills are required in addition to what parts are required. Bonus: 4.) Allow for ships to have different rank configurations depending on which cert for the ship they meet, e.g. if the fitting guy wants to, he can make a meta'd down version with much lower skill requirements, and assign this to the first few tiers of the cert. |
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Olaf4862
KnownUnknown
32
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Posted - 2013.09.30 20:56:00 -
[71] - Quote
Um is it just me but @CCP Devs, you guys got weird gun requirements, they do not match up even though they take the same training to complete.
If you look in the primary skills the Beam weapons need level V for the primary skill but the Hybrid and Projectile both only require IV...
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Initiative
3783
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Posted - 2013.09.30 20:59:00 -
[72] - Quote
Andski wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:- You should make T2 ammo usable in faction guns while you're at it. with the requirement to have the relevant gunnery spec trained, of course
Of course.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Soaran Sikadi
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
5
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Posted - 2013.09.30 21:04:00 -
[73] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:A few comments: - You should make T2 ammo usable in faction guns while you're at it.
-Liang
This doesn't really seem like a good idea to me. At the moment there is a notable tradeoff (isk value notwithstanding) when selecting between faction and T2 guns - one of them gives you more selection on projection, and one gives you more damage (at a pretty big price tag in most cases). This seems like a nice decision to have people make when fitting ships. |
Kat Ayclism
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
45
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Posted - 2013.09.30 21:12:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ohey let's get rid of having some reward over time through progressing in the guns, and just shove more morons into megas so we can have more soulgrindingly **** tidi fights that (only coincidentally) completely discount any benefits more specialized doctrines would have.
Surely that will be "fun." Thanks CSM for thinking that was something you should just rubberstamp. |
Xeen Du'Wang
Knights of the Black Watch
9
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Posted - 2013.09.30 21:15:00 -
[75] - Quote
On to the next blog |
Sid Hudgens
Totally not an NPC Corp
167
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Posted - 2013.09.30 21:16:00 -
[76] - Quote
Tackling cert lvl 5 for megathron mastery ... so I won't forget any necessary skills while training up for my tackling mega. "....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced." |
David Kir
Tailender
233
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Posted - 2013.09.30 21:25:00 -
[77] - Quote
I hope that Pirate ships haven't been overlooked. The lack of certificates on ships such as the Nightmare or the Vindicator is quite silly. Oh, and thanks for the turret skill requirements changes. It was about time.
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Doc Tor Dre
Minmatar Mining and Materials
1
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Posted - 2013.09.30 21:26:00 -
[78] - Quote
+1 for keeping Hull Tanking Elite - it is my proudest achievement in Eve. |
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
287
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Posted - 2013.09.30 21:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
Since this will break third-party apps, can we have a preview of the data dump/API so we can start preparing for this? |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
732
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Posted - 2013.09.30 21:32:00 -
[80] - Quote
Mmm, I like the sound of mastery, fits my skill sheet perfectly. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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Dunk Dinkle
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
7
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Posted - 2013.09.30 21:35:00 -
[81] - Quote
The changes look great and will be helpful to our new pilots especially.
However, we need to hear the status of the Hull Tanking Elite certificate before giving it both thumbs up.
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Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
19
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Posted - 2013.09.30 21:48:00 -
[82] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:I love that gun training no longer needs the previous sizes of guns trained to V to get the next sized up T2 guns. This does bring the gunnery skills in line with missile skills. However, this doesn't fix the issue that the base missile skills take twice as long to train as the base skills of a single type of turret. I have some numbers below:
**NUMBERS**
The numbers made sense previously as missiles allowed quicker specialization, but slower generalization. Turrets offered better generalization and slower specialization. Now that turrets get the generalization and specialization it would be nice for missiles to join them. If you could unify the training times missiles and turrets that would finally make these changes complete.
Thank you for articulating this concern and backing it up with numbers. This is my concern as well, as it was one of the core differentiators between Gunnery and Missiles. I believe Missiles were at a disadvantage before this change, because the support skills only affected one weapon system, versus 3 (Hybrids, Energy Turrets, Projectiles). With this differentiation being removed, some balance should be applied to players who invested a lot of SP specializing in this weapon system. |
Ifly Uwalk
Empire Tax Collection Agency
934
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Posted - 2013.09.30 21:55:00 -
[83] - Quote
Some good stuff in there although apparently I never used the certificate system the way it was designed to be used ("guidance" - chortle). For me, it was always about the bling. With that said:
- Please keep the "Claim" button.
- Please retain the ability to set Certs to Public; this is very important because it allows people to see my
- Hull Tanking Certificate Elite - nuff said.
Also - Starter Professions should stay mos def! |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
390
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Posted - 2013.09.30 21:55:00 -
[84] - Quote
Also voicing my concern over missile skills. If guns only have to train 'Hybrid weapons' missiles should gain the same unity of 'Small missiles' for Rockets & Light missiles, then specialise differently. As the 'advantage' missiles had of skipping specs that was always used as the argument for why missiles had to train twice has now been removed.
Though I approve of the changes to gun skill requirements.
I also feel the skill multipliers of the missile support skills should be reviewed at the same time, as they only apply to a single skill, not two skills (Most of the Gunnery Support skills actually only benefit two of the three gun types, Controlled Bursts being no benefit to AC's, Optimal being minimal benefit to AC's etc) |
Rodrik Vikary
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2013.09.30 22:05:00 -
[85] - Quote
These changes seem to be really great! I can't wait to see all these new things in EVE!
The certificates and the requirements for T2 guns are very good changes that will improve the capsuleer experience a lot and make it easier for not only new players but also the old ones. |
Marlene Dakenek
Devid Ventures
9
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Posted - 2013.09.30 22:32:00 -
[86] - Quote
Good changes. However it would be nice if the skill books and info icons would have some other color than gray. I like the current beige and blue color scheme. |
James Akachi
Perkone Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2013.09.30 22:50:00 -
[87] - Quote
1Robert McNamara1 wrote:http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65175/1/SC_Icons_Branded.png
This could be made a touch more intuitive.
Red is worse than grey generally. Give Red/Yellow/Green a shot. Red - do not own/not injected >Yellow - injected, not high enough for requirement > Green - requirement met > Green Star - L5 +1 to this. It would mirror how the current certificate requirements are marked: red X for no requirement met, yellow O for some requirements met, green check for all requirements met. The symbols aren't important but the colors are. As an alternative, make the "uninjected" a red wireframe or outline of a skillbook.
A few other things.
1. Please make sure the new "requirements" tab is also applied to other "skill prerequisites" tabs such as for Modules and Skills themselves. It would be awkward if they continue using the current format. 2. Perhaps add arrows for the skills so you can expand and contract skill trees in the requirements tab. So you could look at either just the 3 required skills, or all of their prerequisites as you desire. 3. Please add a popup notification when you reach a new level of a certificate with an appropriate sound. Achievement Unlocked (of course not with those words ) |
Nihill Widderslaint
EVE University Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2013.09.30 23:33:00 -
[88] - Quote
Loving the Turret Tiericide! I was actually hoping for this while training core turrets' skills to get in a T2-weapons Nightmare, this is perfect, about 21 days of unneeded small/medium training will be gone. (some other stuff to train until the release, all is good)
+1 to the argument (backed up with numbers, post #48) of rebalancing missiles skill trees/multipliers, considering now things will be much better for turrets (from a new-ish player base perspective), and considering Devs ARE at it (Rapid Heavies!) you guys should definitely give it some love. Thanks.
+1 concerning the colors of skill requirements. Red/Yellow/Green/Green-Star is much more visually intuitive.
The Mastery concept seems good, can't wait to see the InterBus ship specialization tree (or whatever you'll call it) showed in the last ccp stream, I predict that's something I'll spend hours in awe / planning.
Cheers for the Devs involved!
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Highfield
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
25
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Posted - 2013.09.30 23:42:00 -
[89] - Quote
"thatGÇÖs where corporation created certificates might come in handy"
YES! Superduper useful to let people know what to train for the new doctrines. |
Rain6638
Team Evil
676
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Posted - 2013.09.30 23:43:00 -
[90] - Quote
sweet. this is excellent. focused max'ed ships will come sooner with the gunnery skill surgery. win [ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337 yo dawg, we heard you liek industrials, so we put an industrial in yo industrial so you can loss while u loss |
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