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Charles Panzram
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.09.30 17:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
After a long absence I returned back to EvE and took a good look what things changed during my absence and BOY A LOT HAS CHANGED SINCE 2006!!! Primary reason for me to return anyways, it almost feels like a completely different game which is awesome!
Now to catch up with the changes I naturally hit the forums and browsed through ships and modules for fitting advices and the like. Back in 2006 the forum was a good place to ask for advice and you would quickly get good and workable fits.
Nowadays it seems it is pointless to ask for anything because you will receive the cookie cutter EFT all LEVEL 5 all TECH II fit without a thought for players who might not have 100 million skill points. Or even more asinine fittings that include deadspace mods aplenty. Has everyone gotten stupidly rich overnight or are those mods **** cheap? Well not according to my findings at the local trade hubs. So why provide people with perfect level 5 fittings at all especially if they are newer players, or returning old ones? Its not really helpful!
EFT fits are one thing but people might want to know how the none everything at level 5 none tech 2 but meta 3, meta 4 fit would hold its own for particular tasks outside of pure EFT theory crafting because I doubt everyone just bought their char with 100 million skill points.
So why not ask people about their amount of skill points first or start out with meta gear fittings before suggesting them fittings that would need a year to train for? Or several billion isks.
It is really idiotic to see fittings that include command ship boosters, pirate implants, drugs and everything overheated. More constructive fittings advices would be nice because at the moment ships and modules feels like a bridge with lots of EFT trolls hiding under it.
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Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
81
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Posted - 2013.09.30 18:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well what are your skills and what are you looking to do? PvP, missions, wormholes, exploration, mining, industry? Hisec, low, null? Maybe post an eveboard link?
A T2 fit is kinda the norm. You can then drop down to meta 4 or upgrade to bling as your skills and wallet allow. |
Goldensaver
Personal Defense LtD.
239
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 18:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
First of all, all level V is a good golden standard. You base and compare your stats on those skills so you can compare fits in an unbiased manner (eg. "mine has 10k more EHP than yours", "Yeah, but I only have level II skills")
You can still fly the fit without all level V, but it's just a way to compare fits when you're trying to decide.
Secondly, T2 is quite common due to the relatively low skills needed for T2, not commonly actually needing all level V skills. T2 is also quite cheap usually.
Deadspace isn't all that cheap, but it isn't all that expensive either. You can earn over 100m an hour grinding incursions, so it's not too tough to get a hold of deadspace fittings where they are justified, such as on a more expensive hull where it can make a huge difference to survivability.
Most of my characters are 50m or less SP, but it only takes something like 25m SP to be fully specced into one thing, depending on what you're trying to max spec.
Also, as for the command boosts, everybody and their mom has an OGB alt these days. Assume that you're fighting someone with them every time.
As far as overheat, you should always overheat in PvP. Cruiser and under you'll be hard pressed to burn things out before one or the other explodes, or if you will burn out, it'll be pretty close to killing the enemy. Assume heat for most of the fight. Drugs are cheap and should be used when available too. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
879
|
Posted - 2013.09.30 18:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
There are a few of us that give advice based on the time it takes to complete any given task rather than what EFT says has the highest DPS. There are even fewer of us that give advice based on SP that don't just say "You have to have T2 or don't bother."
The only thing i really disagree about is overheating. Even with thermodynamics 3 you can save yourself a tank slot that can be better used for damage application. I moved into a WH with that effect and learned it early on. It's the bee's knee's.
And real men use PYFA for the record Eve is Real |
Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
721
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Posted - 2013.09.30 18:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:
You can still fly the fit without all level V, but it's just a way to compare fits when you're trying to decide.
The only issue with some fits created at ALL V is stuff like tight powergrid fit that require and weapon upg V and such. If a newer player don't check it before buying some stuff, he can be stuck with it untill he trains weap upg V then adv weap upg V. A standard when theory crafting is good but for advice to newer player, the idea of a perfect char is kinda useless. I remmeber some threads recomending some 3 week old newbie to go for a fleet phoon because it's a super good ship for mission. It is indeed but getting sentries and cruise to T2 is quite long before the ship really start to shine.
The issue is more of checking who the audience of the tips is. |
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
21
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Posted - 2013.09.30 19:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
If you supply a succulent API key for eft I and many others would happily customize a meta / low sp fit for any given ship and task. |
Iyokus Patrouette
End-of-Line
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 01:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Really the problem is, and lets be honest people start a thread saying "I want to fly a -Insert ship here- what is the best fit.
How is that useful information for anyone to really offer up useful builds and/or fits. The more information people give at the start the better the responses. If someone does put up a fitting with all tech2, look it over. go "hmm i can use some/most/none of those modules at the moment and start training. Use meta 4 modules during the training and watch the ships performance grow as your skills grow.
Really the response in regards to fitting comes down to the Original posts lack of information.
I also agree that training times to most tech 2 modules really isn't to bad. . The bad part is players getting side tracked and spreading skills thin. |
Mathias Orsen
Sacred Templars Fatal Ascension
20
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Posted - 2013.10.01 03:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
What you are asking for is nothing other than for someone with no future goals to tell you how to fit a ship with no future though. "All level 5" is what you should be wanting or atleast very close to it.
From the beginning, If you ever have any plan to fly an effective ship, you should get the fit that works best. There are reasons for cookie cutter fits. This should be designed as an all t2/meta 4 fit with some faction gear were needed as long as the price is justified for the hull.
From this point, you should then change the fit to work with what you have. Knowing the fit you need gives you a direction for skills to train.
I have a nice mach that cost a whole lot of billion and I have the skills to back it all up. That don't mean it was always that way. When I first got the mach, It cost me just about every thing I had just for the hull and I couldn't use any t2 guns outside hybrids. Having a good Idea of a fit to work on and the dedication to train toward that goal is what produces a great ship that has made more isk than most people will ever see.
If you don't aim big, you will stay small. The tengu pilot is proof of that. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
879
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 04:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Quote:What you are asking for is nothing other than for someone with no future goals to tell you how to fit a ship with no future though. False.
Quote:More constructive fittings advices would be nice because at the moment ships and modules feels like a bridge with lots of EFT trolls hiding under it.
True.
Quote:"All level 5" is what you should be wanting or atleast very close to it.
That has nothing to do with a pilots current status whatsoever. Posting a fit that is relative to someone with low SP and ISK is completely exclusive of posting a fit that should be a pilots "end game" ship. You didn't start your Mach out with t2 guns, and quite frankly those who did would be more suited to HKO. Eve is Real |
Goldensaver
Personal Defense LtD.
239
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 05:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Quote:What you are asking for is nothing other than for someone with no future goals to tell you how to fit a ship with no future though. False. Quote:More constructive fittings advices would be nice because at the moment ships and modules feels like a bridge with lots of EFT trolls hiding under it.
True. Quote:"All level 5" is what you should be wanting or atleast very close to it. That has nothing to do with a pilots current status whatsoever. Posting a fit that is relative to someone with low SP and ISK is completely exclusive of posting a fit that should be a pilots "end game" ship. You didn't start your Mach out with t2 guns, and quite frankly those who did would be more suited to HKO. I resent that. On my other character, I wouldn't touch anything above frigate until I trained up to T2 guns, tank, and all other mods for that specific ship, as well as near maxed, or absolutely maxed support skills for it. I've been trying to keep myself out of anything worth more than a few million until I actually have acceptable skills to fly it.
Though I will admit that when I first started the game I had some... quite foolish losses. (I am never uploading those kill reports, so don't ask.) |
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Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
233
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Posted - 2013.10.01 06:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
You don't need 100mil SP for all-T2 fits. As others have already said, all-T2 are usually posted as the "standard" because they're not too expensive and they're something you should be working toward anyway.
For a lot of modules, going from T1 to T2 is a big jump, and it's something you should be skilling toward anyway.
If you can't fit the T2 versions of stuff, just downgrade it to meta in EFT for yourself.
You *are* using EFT, right? Because it's a free download...and if you're not using it yourself, you're basically just asking everyone else to do all your work for you. Why should someone else have to do the hard work of figuring out what fits with your skills just because you're too lazy to do it yourself?
Other people don't know what your skills look like. |
Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 07:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Basically I get a lot of new players, Talking people with 10m sp or less.
Its easier for me to build a cookie cutter fit with numbers for it and give it to them and then tell them what to prioritize training.
IE here is a mission drake. Train tank first so you can run up to level 3s then train missile skills so you can start level 4s and work your way towards a raven or tengu fit like this.
Now if you cant fit this fit the META X variants.
Otherwise you waste time constantly tweeking fits for everyone. Standards give someone a goal. |
Charles Panzram
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 07:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
I made this thread because just the other day I saw a guy asking for a fitting to run level 3s, something a player capable of using an all tech II setup would hardly do or even ask about unless he ebayed his account, yet he was presented with a fitting that would have taken 90+ days to train for.
So what is the guy supposed to do in the mean time? Grind level 2s? You can do many things in EvE without min maxing everything first, thats a quite WOWish approach and gives the wrong impression about the game! |
Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Charles Panzram wrote:I made this thread because just the other day I saw a guy asking for a fitting to run level 3s, something a player capable of using an all tech II setup would hardly do or even ask about unless he ebayed his account, yet he was presented with a fitting that would have taken 90+ days to train for.
So what is the guy supposed to do in the mean time? Grind level 2s? You can do many things in EvE without min maxing everything first, thats a quite WOWish approach and gives the wrong impression about the game!
If the fit would take 90 days to train then the person doesnt even have the sp capable of running level 3s
It takes like 60 days to train from nothing to Racial BC 4 T2 weapons systems T2 Tank, T2 drones. and Fitting skills to 5
I am not even including the thought behind getting a set of +3 implants which most corps should provide the isk for.
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Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3527
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
No, T2 fits with all V's is the only reasonable standard, because it minimizes the effect of SP and displays the ideal fit for the ship.
You put that fit in EFT, and downgrade as needed and focus training to get that T2 gear needed, and work on your fitting skills.
Also remember that you can use fitting implants.
Seriously,we won't be bringing back the old unique ships for events. We might give other stuff away that is interesting, but no Guardian Vexor, Opux Luxury Yacht, Fedthron, Impoc, SIR, etc, etc.-á |
Eli Kzanti
Remanaquie Federation
28
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Charles Panzram wrote:So what is the guy supposed to do in the mean time? How about he puts a little goddamn thought into it and modifies the fit to make it easier to fly for himself? Or are you suggesting we not only freaking spoon-feed you people, we chew it for you first as well?
If someone gives you an all T2 fit and you cant fit all T2, what is the logical course of action? Well, evidently the logical course of action is to start whining about it all over the forums, rather than, say... switching specific modules you cant use to meta 4 YOURSELF and seeing how it goes.
Jesus, get off your lazy backside and do something for yourself or get the hell back outta here and give me your stuff before the door hits you on the way out. |
Charles Panzram
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:Charles Panzram wrote:I made this thread because just the other day I saw a guy asking for a fitting to run level 3s, something a player capable of using an all tech II setup would hardly do or even ask about unless he ebayed his account, yet he was presented with a fitting that would have taken 90+ days to train for.
So what is the guy supposed to do in the mean time? Grind level 2s? You can do many things in EvE without min maxing everything first, thats a quite WOWish approach and gives the wrong impression about the game! If the fit would take 90 days to train then the person doesnt even have the sp capable of running level 3s It takes like 60 days to train from nothing to Racial BC 4 T2 weapons systems T2 Tank, T2 drones. and Fitting skills to 5 I am not even including the thought behind getting a set of +3 implants which most corps should provide the isk for.
Strange I see dozens of people, barely a month old running level 3s. So you are saying those people should twiddle their thumbs for 60 days minimum? Thats an awesome advertisement, COME PLAY EVE FOR THE FIRST 60-90 days we suggest you just twiddle your thumbs and wait for your skill training to complete.
This is exactly what I am talking about, how about you present people with a setup that can be used successfully to do level 3s , not fast, not perfectly, you might loose your ship if you don-¦t pay attention but you could use it now instead of:: Hurr hurr you must min max everything first so come back in 60,90,120 days.
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Charles Panzram
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Eli Kzanti wrote:Charles Panzram wrote:So what is the guy supposed to do in the mean time? How about he puts a little goddamn thought into it and modifies the fit to make it easier to fly for himself? Or are you suggesting we not only freaking spoon-feed you people, we chew it for you first as well? If someone gives you an all T2 fit and you cant fit all T2, what is the logical course of action? Well, evidently the logical course of action is to start whining about it all over the forums, rather than, say... switching specific modules you cant use to meta 4 YOURSELF and seeing how it goes. Jesus, get off your lazy backside and do something for yourself or get the hell back outta here and give me your stuff before the door hits you on the way out.
And here comes the angry troll! Why are you posting here in the first place? Because your answer won-¦t help anyone I suggest you go and troll somewhere else.
Nobody is whining on the forums aside of you. You suggest putting in some thought and modify the all tech 2 fitting, well I suggest the same to you to put in some thought and modify it yourself to give new players useful advices or keep your mouth shut.
It didn-¦t take long for the trolls to arrive it seems. |
Eli Kzanti
Remanaquie Federation
28
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Its very simple, Charles. If he, like you, is willing to put no thought or effort into this game then he, like you, will just quit because its all so unfair.
What, you think we expect people to immediately fly all T2 fits? No, we give them a goal to work towards on a fit that still works well and is easy to fit if you meta 4 it yourself.
Or would you rather have people thinking that they can just meta 4 a battleship after a month and not explode in a horrible ball of fire in their first level 4?
Edit: you call me a troll, you evidently didn't read my post. See above. Door, way out, stuff pls.
How about YOU modify the fits and get all these new players killed with stupid sub-optimal missioning ships because they think thats the goal they should be working towards, while I sit here and encourage new players to put some thought and effort in themselves so that they not only do, they understand, and as such develop into good, competent players?
5/10 for effort in this troll thread. |
Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
Charles Panzram wrote:Gh0stBust3rs wrote:Charles Panzram wrote:I made this thread because just the other day I saw a guy asking for a fitting to run level 3s, something a player capable of using an all tech II setup would hardly do or even ask about unless he ebayed his account, yet he was presented with a fitting that would have taken 90+ days to train for.
So what is the guy supposed to do in the mean time? Grind level 2s? You can do many things in EvE without min maxing everything first, thats a quite WOWish approach and gives the wrong impression about the game! If the fit would take 90 days to train then the person doesnt even have the sp capable of running level 3s It takes like 60 days to train from nothing to Racial BC 4 T2 weapons systems T2 Tank, T2 drones. and Fitting skills to 5 I am not even including the thought behind getting a set of +3 implants which most corps should provide the isk for. Strange I see dozens of people, barely a month old running level 3s. So you are saying those people should twiddle their thumbs for 60 days minimum? Thats an awesome advertisement, COME PLAY EVE FOR THE FIRST 60-90 days we suggest you just twiddle your thumbs and wait for your skill training to complete. This is exactly what I am talking about, how about you present people with a setup that can be used successfully to do level 3s , not fast, not perfectly, you might loose your ship if you don-¦t pay attention but you could use it now instead of:: Hurr hurr you must min max everything first so come back in 60,90,120 days.
Never said you must max everything. I said here is a fit and a ship to train towards. As many have said its easier to hand 10 caldari pilots the same Drake fit for max skills and say train for this. then build 10 drakes based on their skills.
Obviously you were never around for the learning skills either. You used to have to spend 2 months just training those to train everything else faster.
There are plenty of other ways to make isk until their skills go up as well. Have them take a week to train up a noctis and follow you around salvaging your **** to sell.
Those people with less then a month running level 3s are vets that know how to properly skill accounts. Otherwise they wouldnt have grinded the standings fast enough for level 3s.
Now is there anything else you would like to cry about?
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1487
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 13:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
the best thing about this thread is OP's mustache.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
527
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Charles Panzram wrote:I made this thread because just the other day I saw a guy asking for a fitting to run level 3s, something a player capable of using an all tech II setup would hardly do or even ask about unless he ebayed his account, yet he was presented with a fitting that would have taken 90+ days to train for.
So, T2 is pretty much the gold standard, if a character can't fit a T2 battlecruiser for level 3s he is going to be for a real ride like two days later when he attempts a level 4 and gets blapped.
Charles Panzram wrote: So what is the guy supposed to do in the mean time? Grind level 2s? You can do many things in EvE without min maxing everything first, stating that you should max things out first is a quite WOWish approach and gives the wrong impression about the game!
If someone isn't bright enough to play with the fit, there is little we are going to be able to do with it, and the odds of me entering APIs for every noob that asks about a fit are slim. I can't see your skills you get a T2 fit assuming perfect fitting skills. Feel free to ignore it at will, its not my isk.
Charles Panzram wrote: As for the level V tech 2 as standard, how about a meta fitting as standard, because the meta fitting is much more useful since in most cases it won-¦t require perfect or near perfect fitting skills! Thats what people want to know! Not something they can use in 3 months but something they could use just about now!
All level 5 all tech 2 is the lazy mans answer its like to tell someone who is hungry to eat, quite obvious but less helpful!
No T2 level 5 is the standard that most ships are judged by, there is no law saying each skill must be V'd up...indeed they aren't but comparing the stats of a ship at level 5 skills is how you judge the SHIPS THEMSELVES against each other. I don't care about your characters skills, they mean very little to me. Its not laziness its just the standard
You can fleet free to rebuild the fit with meta level gear that is fine, it may or may not work....however that is really neither here nor there. |
Iyokus Patrouette
End-of-Line
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 22:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Now now, Maybe we are all being to harsh at the moment. In an attempt to offer an olive branch i have come up with a fit for a frigate that everyone can use.
I put a whole lot of brain power behind it and came up with this.
Velator: Civilian Mining Laser x1 Civilian Gatling gun x1 Veldspar x1
Now I made it using a Gallente ship, but feel free to use any of the races frigates It will fit on all of them. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
874
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 00:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
sigh .. another super-priced fit
it's going to take me months to make enough isk for that veldspar |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
881
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 03:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quote:How about he puts a little goddamn thought into it and modifies the fit to make it easier to fly for himself?
Because it wont always work. Otherwise people could just google "cookie cutter mission ShipX" nd there would be no need for this forum Eve is Real |
Goldensaver
Personal Defense LtD.
239
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 03:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Quote:How about he puts a little goddamn thought into it and modifies the fit to make it easier to fly for himself? Because it wont always work. Otherwise people could just google "cookie cutter mission ShipX" nd there would be no need for this forum Except it does. Are you CPU tight? Fine, replace one of those rigs with a Processor Overclock, and meta a few things. Are you PG tight? Replace a rig with an ACR and meta a few things. Does it already have fitting mods and you don't want to put more on? Well I'm sorry, but the fit just isn't for you.
Try looking at a few other fits, or asking for help while also saying that you have extremely low fitting skills. Like... really bad fitting skills. I mean, you'd have to not have trained them at all.
But take care to really emphasize how bad your fitting skills are if you're going to ask for help, because if you can't be bothered to explain that you have poor skills, and particularly emphasize the poor fitting skills, we can't be bothered to come up with something that isn't all level V's. |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
206
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Posted - 2013.10.02 04:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
OP sounds like a troll.
People already know that if you can't fit the T2 use a meta 3 or 4.
If you still don't have the power grid use an implant.
All skills can be L3 and get the job done.
How about the OP tells us his better suggestion of how to compare or recommend fits instead of just crying about how it's done. Show us all your magic way of doing it better. |
Tao Dolcino
Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet
146
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 12:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
It's a common misunderstanding between vets and new players : A new player asks for a fit. A vet gives a fit with all skills at V and T2 modules because it's a standard way to compare fits and it's a reasonable goal to achieve. Then the new player looks at the required skills and unsubscribes, because he thinks that he will have to wait 2 months before to start to do whatever he was asking the fit for.
But no, not at all, you can start immediatly with some meta modules, and you will train what skills can't do for you : practise, tactical sens, agro, managing overview, etc... You can very well run lvl 3 missions with a battlecruiser fitted without any T2 module. I won't be as easy, but it's perfectly doable. What's important is what you will learn while doing it, instead of waiting until you are able to undock your first full V skill/full T2 modules ship while you have spent two month doing nothing else than watching your skill queue and moaning
A T1 BC is not that painful to lose if you have insured it correctly (platinium). Now go lose it, go test, go try, go experiment, go play ! I guess you'll do very fine in no time if you kick yourself to try and analyze. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
886
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 17:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
Goldensaver wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Quote:How about he puts a little goddamn thought into it and modifies the fit to make it easier to fly for himself? Because it wont always work. Otherwise people could just google "cookie cutter mission ShipX" nd there would be no need for this forum Except it does. ~ Crap that was already said.
No, it doesn't, and any experienced pilot knows it.
You need x amount of DPS to clear certain 'dungeons'. If you cant crack the boss you fail. You need a certain amount of tank for everything. With certain fits, you can't do one or both, which means you will fail.
"I fly a ship trained to all 5's but still haven't figured out how to fly it so I came to S&M for help"... said no pilot ever. Eve is Real |
Meyr
SiN Corp
50
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 02:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
The problem within your OP is simply that most people, when requesting advice, don't specify their basic skill levels.
Most of us who offer ship/fitting advice utilize all V in EFT, and then attempt to leave some spare CPU/Powergrid in order to allow a lower SP player to use Meta/T1 items and have less than perfect fitting skills.
That said, if you're flying a BC in Level 3 missions, you should probably have all of your fitting skills to at least IV, which will allow you access to a great deal of the T2 modules included in most fits.
If you ask for an inexpensive fit that can be done without any AWU, fitting skills @ III, with Weapon Upgrades II, most people can work with that level of information to provide you something that you can use.
Most posters simply don't give that much detail before asking, "What ship should I use against X-rats?" |
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