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Systems Online
Systems Online Corporation
48
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Posted - 2013.10.01 00:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I love the sentiment of the mobile cyno jammer. I really do. Set up a gate camp, feel free to engage any target without fear of them lighting a cyno and, in turn, destroying everything.
The problem is--- this is a module that will prevent more fights than it causes.
And the thing is, I love fights. EVE loves fights. Fights are what this game is all about, but people don't take fights when they are mildly outclassed - therin lies the need for mechanics to force the engagement-- hotdrops.
One of the main problems with the current escalation meta is the unbelievable maneuverability and force projection of supercapital fleets; and the resilience of those fleets paired with their evasiveness makes them the ultimate in escalation tactics. This module lets supercapitals be deployed with no fear of being attacked. Have a few million hp to grind? Deploy X supers. Keep an eye on local, anchor the module where your supers are, and keep them aligned. Tadaa -- invulnerable.
This is a small part of a larger problem with supers, but in general this module would further separate them in to the class of never-dying.
CCP, make modules that promote conflict, not prevent it, and in many situations, capital or bridged escalation is the only way of creating an engagement.
--- Possible way to make it not-broken---
Make it the same radius as anchorable bubbles, and pair it with a bubble-effect. "You cannot escalate, we cannot retreat" |
Sigras
Conglomo
532
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Posted - 2013.10.01 00:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
While I see your point because this could be used to protect supercaps in 0.0, but in low sec this will cause far more battles than it prevents.
Everyone is always afraid of the supercap escalation, and nobody ever engages anyone in low sec because it could be bait.
I think this will be quite the improvement to low sec . . . maybe in 0.0 if they allowed the BOPS ship to bridge a light dictor? |
HiddenPorpoise
BG-1 The Craniac
75
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Posted - 2013.10.01 00:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
There's a reason they are so short range and one use only. All it takes in a cloaky that knows where to set up and is taking full advantage of how safe the supers will feel under the jammers. As opposed to now where Titans don't come out.
They just make cynoing exactly ontop of people harder to pull off and doesn't stop cov-ops. which means some rather insane drop setups. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
363
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Posted - 2013.10.01 01:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Can imagine it'll be moderately light in EHP (for a structure) and it'll be as the devs said, a one time only use item. so you online it, and it expires after a certain time. then you cant use it again.
Its not a system cyno, so you can bridge nados 100km away, pop the jammer in 1 shot and light that cyno 10km from hostile supers for your dread fleet + tackle to gut.
I personally think it'll make for some interesting situations and some pretty awesome plays like the 1 above. Question will be who's bluffing? and who's going to push the escalation? |
NekoKitten
Neko Industry 'n' PvE Apocalypse Now.
20
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Posted - 2013.10.01 06:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
BLOPS / covert cyno are overpowered right now, so I would be happy with this module. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
527
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Posted - 2013.10.01 07:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
NekoKitten wrote:BLOPS / covert cyno are overpowered right now, so I would be happy with this module.
Unless they change something blops can jump into jammed systems. |
Carniflex
StarHunt The Explicit Alliance
93
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Posted - 2013.10.01 11:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Onictus wrote:NekoKitten wrote:BLOPS / covert cyno are overpowered right now, so I would be happy with this module. Unless they change something blops can jump into jammed systems.
It was specifically mentioned that this would not prevent black ops cynos and jumping in under the effect of that thing. Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
1612
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Posted - 2013.10.01 12:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Onictus wrote:NekoKitten wrote:BLOPS / covert cyno are overpowered right now, so I would be happy with this module. Unless they change something blops can jump into jammed systems. It was specifically mentioned that this would not prevent black ops cynos and jumping in under the effect of that thing.
Actually it kinda gives me the impression they're trying to breathe a little life into the blops battleships. I mean, they're pretty much "bridge in the bombers" right now ... looks like they might actually be able to become the hotdrop ...
then again ... ~CCP~
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Tikitina
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2013.10.01 13:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
So you can't warp to 0 and pop a cyno when these are up. Warp to 150+ then pop your cyno. If your target is properly tackled, it won't make too much difference.
It will make for far more interesting gameplay since it will take a bit more planning to hotdrop when these are up.
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
527
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Posted - 2013.10.01 14:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tikitina wrote:So you can't warp to 0 and pop a cyno when these are up. Warp to 150+ then pop your cyno. If your target is properly tackled, it won't make too much difference.
It will make for far more interesting gameplay since it will take a bit more planning to hotdrop when these are up.
Outiside of the cynoing capitals (tackled supers and whatnot) you don't usually cyno smack on top of hostiles anyway, that is how you get your cyno popped and your fleet spread all over the place.
....slowing down a battleship and re-aligning from 140,000m/s takes forever. |
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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
652
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Posted - 2013.10.01 14:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tikitina wrote:So you can't warp to 0 and pop a cyno when these are up. Warp to 150+ then pop your cyno. If your target is properly tackled, it won't make too much difference.
It will make for far more interesting gameplay since it will take a bit more planning to hotdrop when these are up.
The point is that this thing makes supers even harder to tackle than they are now. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
523
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Posted - 2013.10.01 14:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Carniflex wrote:Onictus wrote:NekoKitten wrote:BLOPS / covert cyno are overpowered right now, so I would be happy with this module. Unless they change something blops can jump into jammed systems. It was specifically mentioned that this would not prevent black ops cynos and jumping in under the effect of that thing. Actually it kinda gives me the impression they're trying to breathe a little life into the blops battleships. I mean, they're pretty much "bridge in the bombers" right now ... looks like they might actually be able to become the hotdrop ... then again ... ~CCP~
just allow BLOPS to bridge logistics as well and you will suddenly see that happen. |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
1612
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Posted - 2013.10.01 14:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote: just allow BLOPS to bridge logistics as well and you will suddenly see that happen.
+1 for covert logi One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
791
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Posted - 2013.10.01 14:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sigras wrote:While I see your point because this could be used to protect supercaps in 0.0, but in low sec this will cause far more battles than it prevents.
Everyone is always afraid of the supercap escalation, and nobody ever engages anyone in low sec because it could be bait.
I think this will be quite the improvement to low sec . . . maybe in 0.0 if they allowed the BOPS ship to bridge a light dictor? It will only be a boon if you outright ignore human behaviour and historical precedents
Roams will more likely be much more focused (ie. shorter ranged) so as to ensure the availability of capital assets (ex. logged off) and any conflict that happens beyond these small spheres-of-influence will become non-fights as the meta will "stabilize" at 'whomever pops cyno, followed by jammer first wins' .. with no AoE tackle whatever remains after opposition warps off becomes nothing more than a run of the mill gank victim.
For your imagined lowsec boon to materialise, the cynos themselves will need serious drawbacks associated with them and supers be hamstrung (example: zero cap + reduced shields on arrival and no immunities) so severely as to be liabilities rather than iWin buttons.
In 0.0 the mobile jammer will be nothing more than a must-have for any and all gangs/fleets, a mandatory thing without which a move order from a FC will never come. Obviously depends on how it is implemented, but I just don't see how it can be done without inadvertently providing an insurmountable boost to either roamers or semi-static blobs. |
Sigras
Conglomo
534
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Posted - 2013.10.01 18:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
your entire argument is based on the erroneous assumption that the bubble will come online immediately.
CCP Fozzie in the interview said that there would be a "spool up time" which I take to be like an anchorable bubble which has a visible timer ticking down for all on grid to see. |
Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries Intergalactic Conservation Movement
2
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Posted - 2013.10.01 18:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
I can't quite remember, do the new bubbles also prevent the supers from jumping out from under them? Cause seems to me that would be fair / suicidal.
Whether the above is true or not, I think these will make null and low fights more interesting. |
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Forsak3n.
344
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Posted - 2013.10.01 21:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
NekoKitten wrote:BLOPS / covert cyno are overpowered right now, so I would be happy with this module.
wowlwolwolwowlwowlwwlwowlawl!!1!1!
Thank you for the laugh. In 4.5 years playing this game I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that blops/covert cynos are OP. EVER.
Also, CCP has already stated that it won't stop covert cynos. So no dolly for you.
Finally, what is to stop someone from cynoing in at 200km and then warping down? The only thing this will stop is the solo cyno tackler, so long as the target is staying inside the smallish diameter of the bubble. It still won't stop an Arazu, Lachesis, Proteus, or even a Keres EAF from lighting a cyno from 50-100km away because of warp disruptor range bonuses. These things will have to be massive to be effective.
Perhaps there should also be a probe version for dictors. That might mix things up.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries Intergalactic Conservation Movement
2
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Posted - 2013.10.01 22:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:NekoKitten wrote:BLOPS / covert cyno are overpowered right now, so I would be happy with this module. Perhaps there should also be a probe version for dictors. That might mix things up.
Ok that would be very cool. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
78
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Posted - 2013.10.01 23:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Its not a system cyno, so you can bridge nados 100km away, pop the jammer in 1 shot and light that cyno 10km from hostile supers for your dread fleet + tackle to gut.
Can you cancel a titan jump bridge before its normal duration expires and then open another bridge to a different cyno? Serious question, I don't know the answer but I suspect that you can't, you have to wait the duration out which makes this tactic impossible.
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Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2137
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Posted - 2013.10.01 23:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Systems Online wrote: --- Possible way to make it not-broken---
Make it the same radius as anchorable bubbles, and pair it with a bubble-effect. "You cannot escalate, we cannot retreat"
I like this idea, to an extent. I think it (if possible), it should be coded to allow warps but not jumps. So it does not act as an actual 'bubble', in preventing the protected group from warping out, but it does prevent them from jumping out.
Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
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