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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
None ofthe Above
729
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Posted - 2013.10.02 19:40:00 -
[331] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Who needs more PI products, high sec or null? Notice I said need, not want.
Sig: Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt
I love the confluence between your sig and your post. The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1245
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Posted - 2013.10.02 19:52:00 -
[332] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:Aryth wrote: I have not denied anything. As stated before, I was the one that developed the plans. But even those plans require less than 2% of highsec POCOS at most. Even that is a stretch and HIGHLY unlikely.
The game mechanics dictate that anyone big already has a fairly sizeable income stream thus far for their membership. That may not be alliance ISK and can take the form of membership ISK, but it is still income.
So mechanics dictate that the only mega entities holding POCOs will be ones that find it attractive to do so from either an income generation perspective or for PVP opportunities. Frankly there are better PVP generators for mega entities but some of this will occur. The ISK/RISK reward will have various cutoff points for corp/alliance sizes. But with the sheer # of planets in highsec/highsec islands it is not practical within the current game mechanics to hold a large portion.
People need sandcastles in EVE. PI has been a risk free wealth generator for quite some time now. We won't be the highsec PI boogeyman, but I sure hope a few dozen entities are. It will provide a natural progression path.
Highsec (PI,Decs) -> Lowsec (PVP,FW) -> WH (Small scale warfare, POS) -> Null (Large Scale warfare/SOV)
Will some people lose their risk free ISK machine? Yes Will they be able to relocate and find an appropriate tax location? Yes If anything people should be looking forward to taking some out of the way backwater POCO and setting their rate to 0% for their corp and charging others a modest tax. Why everyone is fixated on the Bloc/Alliance problem is beyond me.
Fixate on what happens in other scenarios, not that one.
A wide variety of scenarios need to be examined, people "fixate" on the large alliance scenarios when talking to you because you are guiding the efforts of one, and your "nothing to see here; move along" line is utterly unconvincing. So you are looking at only 2% of all POCOs to suit your purposes? Yay. So you want to create local monopolies of certain types of planets. Nothing to see here; move along. Riiiiight. It's worth looking at these systems when a cartel forms that coordinates actions over a significant enough of these resources, don't you think? Or should we just ignore the lessons of technetium? This should definitely one of the areas considered for ANY feature of EVE Online. But by all means, champion any other concerns. Your analysis is likely to by highly valued.
If you learned anything from technetium, or half a dozen other instances where either I personally, or we collectively carteled/profited/manipulated/griefed, it is that I just give you the straight truth. You can choose not to accept that truth and then wait for the after action evidence to prove it out. But in all things both myself and Mynnna speak the truth. This isn't out of some benevolence towards the individuals of EVE just because if you stack the deck enough well, it is funnier to just play the game out after calling the ball if you will.
No mega entities are going to cartel highsec POCOS. You can run the #'s yourself and decide if it would be practical or not. We have, it isn't. The most efficient paths to impact the PI market do not require that. The effort to even attempt that method would demand the most complex undertaking in all of EVE's history. Equivalent to grinding all stations in null, a few times over. That effort would be far better spent carteling other areas of the game.
I am not concerned about the other areas that our plans touch on as they will provide content for EVE and probably some good marketing for CCP. However, I expected a lot better tinfoil from the EVE community at this point than the OMG BLOBS are coming. Or the OMG CARTEL. If you listed out the top dozen or so possible cartels in EVE, and ranked them by ISK/EFFORT ratio, highsec POCOS would be at the bottom of the list as a whole.
This is not to say the choice pieces of meat are not worth it. Those represent a very small portion of the total though. Easily avoided by anyone that chooses to do so.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal - Want to follow the latest scandals? @EVEAryth |
Drayzon
Earth and Fire Mors ex Elementis
1
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Posted - 2013.10.02 20:10:00 -
[333] - Quote
Fail!!! NPC tax? Keeping lowsec competitive? Is there any reason to remain in highsec? I understand that many players love to fight PvP, but some of us just like to chill, help others, and make passive income to support new players, without getting into the politics of PvP. What happened to being able to just do anything, anywhere? Now if you want to remain competitive in the game, you must at least play in lowsec or null, and hope you dont get blown to bits for doing so. Who will remain to help those new to the game in High sec? How can anyone afford to? I see alot of new players joining, for only 14 days, and quitting thinking there is no way for them to grow. I rarely play anymore, and when I do, I hear the common complaint about how being new is so unfair. 5 accounts are about to go bye-bye because of this insane push to move everyone to low or null sec. |
Reachok
Full Circle Research Corporation
13
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Posted - 2013.10.02 22:37:00 -
[334] - Quote
When you state in the DB that the NPC tax will remain in place to keep low sec pocos competitive, does this mean there are a lot of low sec pocos in play? Considering that high sec PI returns substantially less product than null sec I must assume then that low sec PI must be on par with high sec PI. Else the reduced yield of high sec PI would negate the need for continuation of the NPC tax on anything except Interbus POCO's.
The bad guys went the other way, seriously.... |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
427
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Posted - 2013.10.02 22:54:00 -
[335] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Panhead4411 wrote:So does this mean that in order to take down any current HS POCO's, we'll be tanking our standing with Interbus? No standing/security or suspect flag hit will happen.
Wait...no suspect flag for shooting the interbus COs? Rethink that you're taking out 3/4 of the fun for the first few weeks after release.
Will we get a suspect flag for repping the NPC office? |
None ofthe Above
730
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Posted - 2013.10.02 23:09:00 -
[336] - Quote
Aryth wrote: If you learned anything from technetium, or half a dozen other instances where either I personally, or we collectively carteled/profited/manipulated/griefed, it is that I just give you the straight truth. You can choose not to accept that truth and then wait for the after action evidence to prove it out. But in all things both myself and Mynnna speak the truth. This isn't out of some benevolence towards the individuals of EVE just because if you stack the deck enough well, it is funnier to just play the game out after calling the ball if you will.
No mega entities are going to cartel highsec POCOS. You can run the #'s yourself and decide if it would be practical or not. We have, it isn't. The most efficient paths to impact the PI market do not require that. The effort to even attempt that method would demand the most complex undertaking in all of EVE's history. Equivalent to grinding all stations in null, a few times over. That effort would be far better spent carteling other areas of the game.
I am not concerned about the other areas that our plans touch on as they will provide content for EVE and probably some good marketing for CCP. However, I expected a lot better tinfoil from the EVE community at this point than the OMG BLOBS are coming. Or the OMG CARTEL. If you listed out the top dozen or so possible cartels in EVE, and ranked them by ISK/EFFORT ratio, highsec POCOS would be at the bottom of the list as a whole.
This is not to say the choice pieces of meat are not worth it. Those represent a very small portion of the total though. Easily avoided by anyone that chooses to do so.
I do actually, have a lot respect for yourself and Mynnna as well as several of your colleagues. I read what you say and do tend to believe what you say is a truth that you want to tell, from your perspective. It may not be the whole truth, or may not be something that is true for all. I can more easily accept it when my own reason and logic can confirm yours. Hopefully you'll forgive me though for not taking what you say as gospel and shutting down the critical thinking part of my brain.
I consider the source and read between the lines. For example, what you call "good marketing for CCP" usually means a really bad day for someone else. Now I am all for emergent game play, but while you might be thrilled to pull off something got in the news and raised a furor, and caused a mass unsub, that may or may not actually be a net gain for the rest of the community or even CCP.
All this is telling me, along with my own analysis and posters besides yourself, that there is reason to be concerned, in spite or perhaps even because of your efforts to urgently convince us otherwise. The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9213
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 23:58:00 -
[337] - Quote
Drayzon wrote:Who will remain to help those new to the game in High sec?
hopefully not baddies who just tell newbies that they can mine their way to riches Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-į |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1285
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:05:00 -
[338] - Quote
Drayzon wrote:Fail!!! NPC tax? Keeping lowsec competitive? Is there any reason to remain in highsec? I understand that many players love to fight PvP, but some of us just like to chill, help others, and make passive income to support new players, without getting into the politics of PvP. What happened to being able to just do anything, anywhere? Now if you want to remain competitive in the game, you must at least play in lowsec or null, and hope you dont get blown to bits for doing so. Who will remain to help those new to the game in High sec? How can anyone afford to? I see alot of new players joining, for only 14 days, and quitting thinking there is no way for them to grow. I rarely play anymore, and when I do, I hear the common complaint about how being new is so unfair. 5 accounts are about to go bye-bye because of this insane push to move everyone to low or null sec.
Yeah, the "I just want to help newbies never enjoy themselves and quit the game" crowd is exactly who this targets. You are a cancer on Eve, and all of these changes are meant to excise you almost exclusively.
Bye. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Wyn Pharoh
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
4
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Posted - 2013.10.03 00:25:00 -
[339] - Quote
Reachok wrote:When you state in the DB that the NPC tax will remain in place to keep low sec pocos competitive, does this mean there are a lot of low sec pocos in play? Considering that high sec PI returns substantially less product than null sec I must assume then that low sec PI must be on par with high sec PI. Else the reduced yield of high sec PI would negate the need for continuation of the NPC tax on anything except Interbus POCO's.
As far as yield goes, I was surprised at how decent Lowsec planets can be. There is pretty fair risk vs. reward built into that, and it really would be detrimental for Hisec PI to unbalance one of the few bones to Lowsec life I've seen CCP throw out there. 0% tax, Zero risk PI wouldn't be healthy for Eve. |
JTK Fotheringham
Infinity Engine Sleeping Dragons
65
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Posted - 2013.10.03 01:34:00 -
[340] - Quote
Great stuff guys, hilarious thread full of rage and speculation.
I think the wardec mechanic - allowing large alliances to protect their POCOs with war fees - is counter productive. All HS POCOs might be better with a universal criminal timer for attacking them - knocking down a POCO takes a wee bit of effort anyway, with 24 hour reinforcement, so they should be fairly easy to defend without a wardec. That would create more GFs, imho.
People fearful of Goons taking over all the POCOs have missed a trick. Along with an Al-Qaeda-esque goal of re-establishing the Caliphate, Goon long-term goals include upsetting POS operations. We all know they do this by attacking specific vulnerabilities in the POS fuel supply chain - i.e. ganking ice miners. This new POCO mechanic facilitates the Goons taking over a lot of the Plasma planets, and that will create considerable volatility in the POS fuel market.
If you want Goon kills, I'd suggest hanging out around Plasma planet systems for the week after patch.
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Herbinator d'Arcadie
Arkadian Knight
32
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Posted - 2013.10.03 01:44:00 -
[341] - Quote
Freakin long thread ...
My PI is vertically integrated. There is no way to "smuggle" product onto a planet.
Oscillate all EVE systems (-1.0-įthrough 1.0, and back) over a ten year period; modified +/- by # of pod kills. Disentrench the older players! Improve game dynamic.
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Grand Formage
Kinzland Island of Misfit Toons
1
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Posted - 2013.10.03 03:03:00 -
[342] - Quote
I am not sure if this expansion item is going to be of any real value as highsec planets provided so little resources, then you slice the pie by all those that already do PI there, are the tax amounts going to pay for the POCO. hard to imagine, but we shall see.
What I would like to so is a corporate feature. Since the structure is erected as a corporate structure (launch for corp) it should have a corporate hanger such as in a station office. Corp members could drag their materials from their storage directly into the corp space. Administration would be a part of the POS management screen and would require a role assignment to gain retrieval access to the corp space. |
Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2013.10.03 04:06:00 -
[343] - Quote
Green Gambit wrote: I know of 6000 players who play eve almost exclusively in high-sec, who are looking forward to this... And I wouldn't be surprised to see E-UNI and their 2000 members take part in claiming some POCOs around the area where they're based. So that's 8000 hi-sec players that will get some additional content. I really hate it when lone players start claiming to talk of all of high sec...
The fact that you, as a RvB pilot, like the new high sec POCO's doesn't disprove people saying this is a change in favour for big corporations and alliances
I myself think its likely RvB, who is in the perfect positon to claim a lot of high sec poco's.
1. RvB members are ready for PvP anytime 2. RvB members fly cheap stuff so the cost of "getting blown up" is negligible 3. RvB members are very present in high sec because the live in high sec. 4. In comparison to 0 sec and low sec PvPer's RvB pilots (mostly) dont have security status issues.
Meaning every indu corp has to be very careful when deccing RvB to claim a POCO. Otherwise they might loose a mining barge, a hauler or a shiny misson ship to a random RvB cruiser/frigatte party.
Its important to note, that the new player owned custom's office have no standing requirements towards the space ruling NPC faction. This is, besides the scaling war declaration costs, another disadvantage for small corps since high NPC faction standing can be better achieved with smaller corps. .....this has been mentioned by Talconia a few pages afore.
Talonica Draenae wrote:Honestly if a corp/alliance is going to set this up in empire, either they should have to maintain 8+ faction rep with the given empore (checked every 24 hours, else the poco's go free for all and returned to interbus) and also require charters to be active in empire, like PoS's, or be required to join that faction militia, so then they can be openly shot at by the empire's enemies.
So yes, this is a change that favours big entities in a struggle for 5-10% profit margins on low-ressource high sec planets.
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Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.10.03 04:30:00 -
[344] - Quote
mynnna wrote:If they're not worth fighting over, why are we salivating so hard at the chance to own them? Because you are griefers, no? You salivate over opportunity to deny players ability to play in any manner of which you do not approve. |
Bahr Cudas
Beta Ray Bill
6
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Posted - 2013.10.03 04:39:00 -
[345] - Quote
Sounds interesting. Why not make the POCOs upgradable in terms of fitting them w/ defenses?
That would allow smaller fish to fight off larger attempts at takeover, not to mention if the owner isn't online when an attack occurs.
Defense Drones, automated missles, shields/rechargers, mace... |
Elana Maggal
Perkone Caldari State
105
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 04:54:00 -
[346] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Elana Maggal wrote:Green Gambit= wrote: Even with the POCOs, there's no insistance that you get involved with PvP. You can pay RvB to clear a POCO so you can claim it for your corp. Then you can tax it!
Give me a fukken break. Maybe this is why hi-sec Industrialists don't want to deal with the nul-sec sociopathic crowd ... what level of player interaction do you find acceptable in your vision of my little pony online the massively multiplayer singleplayer game
This is the exact kind of nul-sec sheeeeet that players in hi-sec want to avoid - block head. |
Dragnkat
Winfield Star-Tech Un.Bound
34
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Posted - 2013.10.03 04:56:00 -
[347] - Quote
I've been trying to think of a way to phrase my feelings on this, I finally settled on a simple term.
"Ore site changes 2.0"
Seriously CCP you already destroyed WH mining by letting gankers now insta jump without even a probes on dscan warning, and removing scanable gravs in low means the risk to try and venture out of high for that now is nowhere near equal to the rewards.
And now you want to run into the ground even further the one high sec income source that you already all but ruined with a 10% tax you're not planning to get rid of even AFTER we take over the POCO?
Seriously the "lore" explanation being pushed by CCP on this one is pure BS, just call a spade a spade and an isk sink an isk sink and be done with it. Same with just admitting the only people you give a damn about in EVE are your precious too big to fail power blocks and your pvp playerbase, industry pilots be damned. This is even more of a joke when you give us the time sink of another train to V skill on top.
Where is the incentive to take control of the POCO's and then be forced to protect them if we don't get the benefit of no taxes since THE CORP controls it, not npcs.
But the part I'll admit ticks me off the most? Everyone likes to claim eve is a sandbox but more and more that's being shown to be "sandbox if you train pvp skills otherwise gg!" If it's a universe of choices why is it as of late the choice seems to be an inability to do anything or grow out of high sec because the second you try there's a giant brick wall of major alliances saying "You want a piece of null that's funny!" And low is just gankfest and gatecamp central.
And now we're letting them into high if they wish, yeah there's a great idea....
There is no room for the lone wolves, the small corp, or those who just want a little spot to be left alone by a change like this because we've already seen how rife with abuse and exploitative behavior this system will be, more so on top of the already busted "500 mil if you want to fight" war dec mechanics which shouldn't be allowed anywhere near this till those get addressed.
For the record my vote would be for the suspect flag approach instead. And I've now put plans for a dedicated PI alt (which would have been another 3 month membership for you CCP!) on hold till I see how these changes go down.
That said I don't think the goons will do...much..not to the scale some think. But the fact they could (hulkageddons and ice indertictions anyone?) Shows again how this system is a glaringly BAD idea in it's current form. Heck goons are right in one regard, i'd be much more worried about neighbors then them. You don't need a mega alliance like them or RvB to pull a POCO monopoly and force out others with an NPC tax on top of player taxes. You just need whichever big corp controls the area.
tl:dr #1 keeping the npc tax makes this change a pathetic joke right off the bat. #2 further screwing over your indy players and nerfing hi sec income sources is not good for the health of your game #3 you aren;t going to create pvp "gf!" with this, you're just further catering to those already on top, gankfests, and those who can't afford 500 mil are left in the cold. #4 You're making it that much harder to get out of high in the first place by disrupting the income sources of those who use part of that income as a means to try. #5 it feels like i'm being pushed back towards the mind numbing grind of mining or missions over a more stable income source, if that's the case we'll see how long i feel like keeping even this account. |
Elana Maggal
Perkone Caldari State
105
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Posted - 2013.10.03 04:58:00 -
[348] - Quote
Green Gambit wrote:Elana Maggal wrote:Give me a fukken break. Maybe this is why hi-sec Industrialists don't want to deal with the nul-sec sociopathic crowd ... Never lived in null-sec, never been part of a null-sec alliance. I've visited null-sec, for sure, but as things stand at the moment I wouldn't want to live there. Sorry for wanting a game that actually challenges me, and rewards me for using my brains. If you want something that's simply "press button get reward" then I suggest that Eve Online isn't the game for you.
That exactly what the big alliance sociopaths want - their "I win" button, and CPP bends over for them every time.
But you know what - PI sucks ass so this will be the perfect excuse to do something else in game - until CSM/Goon turds manage to turn all of eve into nul-sec - .
Oh yeah - let's turn hi-sec into the new battle ground of Eve. Fukk'n brilliant idea - wish I thought of that!! What remarkable imagination - that's exactly why people play in hi-sec, to have too fight off RvB and other Alliances!!
Hi-sec Industrialists just can't wait!! Fukk Me! |
Hatch'net
Metacrania General Tso's Alliance
0
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Posted - 2013.10.03 06:19:00 -
[349] - Quote
CO's started life as a way to remove Isk from the game so that people couldn't build empires in the market place for nothing. That makes sense in that it keeps with other Isk sinks in the game such as clones, skill books etc. Now however you CCP have created a system that will line the pockets of whoever is powerful enough to control POCO's in hi sec whether they do anymore work than setting one up in the first place instead of providing that Isk sink for everyone equally.
You have distorted and destroyed what Hi sec was supposed to be in many peoples opinions. If EVE is a sandbox based on how people react to one another then base it on the reality of the systems people set up based on real interactions. Hi-sec in your advertisements to new players sounds like it should be what many would consider a developed nation. People have jobs, create jobs, own their own home, and live in relative peace and security. Obviously bad things can and do happen, but it is not the wild west or the streets of Mogadishu Somalia.
If the CO's shouldn't be owned by some massive NPC corp then transfer the ownership to the empire that controls the space they are located in. E.G. Caldari, Gallente, Sanshas, and yes even Goon, etc. Then base the tax rate on the players standings with the owning empire. Just like people have to do when bringing goods into a country in real life through a ship, or Airport.
To spice things up a bit for those who look at this change as something to increase PVP make it where they are flippable for faction warfare and in Null instead of corps or alliances grinding timers just have all the CO's flip when sovereignty is achieved through the current mechanics. It is a change of government not the bureaucrats and structures that actually keep it running. |
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.10.03 06:22:00 -
[350] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote: Finally, there will NOT BE A MONOPOLY. Are you dumb. Even if goons took every plasma planet, you could make the plasma-planet products on a barren planet, simply import the materials there and boom.
Guess I must be an idiot. I thought you needed a Lava planet to get Silicon -- and indeed not all Lava planets have Silicon. |
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Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.10.03 06:33:00 -
[351] - Quote
Andski wrote:people would still be able to do PI, why would we want to lock anyone out of using our pocos in highsec? more people to collect taxes from This is silly. Everyone knows Goons are in it for the griefing. Goons only care about ISK because they need ISK to support their griefing.
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Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.10.03 07:33:00 -
[352] - Quote
Aryth wrote:So mechanics dictate that the only mega entities holding POCOs will be ones that find it attractive to do so from either an income generation perspective or for PVP opportunities. Not so. Some of those who enjoy griefing will enjoy denying PI to those who want to PI as much as they enjoy blowing up miners who want to mine. You are already enjoying the tears (as you call them) in the Forum postings that question the claim that this hi-sec POCO proposal is Wonderful.
Personally, I find most entertaining the One Universal Eternal Meta-Game, between the Players (who try to figure out how to have fun) and the Developers (who try to stop them). The Developers' Dilemma, in cases such as the one discussed in this Topic, is: Which set of players is having the most fun now, that we can ruin: the would-be griefers or the would-be griefed? |
Ramman K'arojic
Deep Black Industries Yulai Federation
16
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Posted - 2013.10.03 08:35:00 -
[353] - Quote
There a BIG issues with this concept and no options for the player; bottom line its short sighted.
Why cant we have some of following to counter balance this:
- Option to pack up and move on - uproot your PI, your infrastructure and just move to a new planet.
- Have more than 1 installation on a planet - I don't want to have to manage relationships with up to 6 different POCO owners.
- Allow the installation of basic defences eg like POS defences. But severely limited to that CPU/PG around the POCO so they take more than a 3 man corp. to pop.
- Limit introduction of this to 0.5 and 0.6 to begin with.
Cheers Ramm.
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Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.10.03 08:37:00 -
[354] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Highsec POCO's will also see a general reduction in cost of usage. Sure, some entities may block Plasma planets to "block usage", but even if goons setup every POCO at 5% tax rates, and your an unskilled new player, 15% (5 to goons, 10 to NPC) is still cheaper than 17%. What limits Goon-tax to 5%, please?
Way I read proposal, POCO owner can set tax whatever he wants. POCO owner can also deny access entirely. Rocket-launch alternative only bypasses export denial, not import denial.
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Green Gambit
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
31
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Posted - 2013.10.03 08:41:00 -
[355] - Quote
Kyshonuba wrote: I myself think its likely RvB, who is in the perfect positon to claim a lot of high sec poco's.
1. RvB members are ready for PvP anytime 2. RvB members fly cheap stuff so the cost of "getting blown up" is negligible 3. RvB members are very present in high sec because the live in high sec. 4. In comparison to 0 sec and low sec PvPer's RvB pilots (mostly) dont have security status issues.
Its important to note, that the new player owned custom's office have no standing requirements towards the space ruling NPC faction. This is, besides the scaling war declaration costs, another disadvantage for small corps since high NPC faction standing can be better achieved with smaller corps. .....this has been mentioned by Talconia a few pages afore.
You missed...
5. RvB has alts with high NPC faction standings!
As was pointed out by the Goons, we'd use a separate small corp to hold the POCOs which has the standings to anchor them. Place the corp in the alliance and the war declaration mechanics do the rest. Even if the corp had to stay outside the alliance, then you've got the assistance part of the war mechanics to contend with. |
Green Gambit
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
32
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Posted - 2013.10.03 08:52:00 -
[356] - Quote
Elana Maggal wrote:Hi-sec Industrialists just can't wait for this new "feature"
As an industrialist (who is based in high sec because it makes little sense to be anywhere else with the current game state) - indeed I can't wait for this feature.
This is the first sensible thing you've said on this thread.
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John B'dlam
Turing Machines Turing Tested
9
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Posted - 2013.10.03 08:53:00 -
[357] - Quote
Kropotkin wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Highsec POCO's will also see a general reduction in cost of usage. Sure, some entities may block Plasma planets to "block usage", but even if goons setup every POCO at 5% tax rates, and your an unskilled new player, 15% (5 to goons, 10 to NPC) is still cheaper than 17%. What limits Goon-tax to 5%, please? Way I read proposal, POCO owner can set tax whatever he wants. POCO owner can also deny access entirely. Rocket-launch alternative only bypasses export denial, not import denial. But why would they? Keeping the POCO open and taxes at a reasonable level is the key to long-term profit. If you take a planet to lock it down, you're quickly looking at a net loss. |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
429
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Posted - 2013.10.03 09:02:00 -
[358] - Quote
(this is something i posted in dinsdales request for information thread but it seems appropriate here as well)
Heres a titbit for the 'ohnoes gewns will take everything' crowd
We as an alliance have been concentrating on gathering POCOs in lowsec for the best part of two and a half years, spending massive amounts on gantrys and upgrades, not to mention capital fuel to grind the structures and titan bridges to defend them when they got attacked. Want to know what percentage we managed to get after all that effort and expenditure? Less than 10% and bear in mind this is in lowsec where its way easier to actually project the forces required while still being able to protect them.
Yes Goons are larger than us by an order of magnitude but bear in mind theyre operating in an environment where they cant leverage those numbers anywhere near as well as they can in nullsec. I know goons love to **** with people for lolz and dont really care about money but for the amount of work theyd have to put in in a location they dont normally operate in beyond the gank squads the return compared to something like ramping up freighter ganking or ice interdicting is miniscule.
Note I'm not saying they wont take any at all, obviously thats a dumb idea, just that people are massively overreacting because of one entity that would have to make the biggest logistical effort in the history of EVE for returns which can be best described as miniscule.
And thats something I just dont see happening. Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin
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Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3541
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 11:02:00 -
[359] - Quote
Elemenohpee wrote:So all that's going to happen is a large nullsec entity hits a whole bunch of highsec customs offices and puts up their own pocos setting 60% tax, meaning I pay 70% tax overall.
It then costs me 500 mill to dec them to hit their poco, which I wont bother doing as to make that back from hisec pi will take months.
So basically your giving large null alliances free isk.
GG
Maybe if you hold sov you shouldn't be able to hold highsec pocos?
How much free ISK they made as you stopped doing PI, and they just invested 100mil per poco?
I know, logic doesn't work in hisec, but still, you guys are baffling.
Notify-į-į You cannot do that while warping. |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3541
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 11:05:00 -
[360] - Quote
Ramman K'arojic wrote:There a BIG issues with this concept and no options for the player; bottom line its short sighted. Why cant we have some of following to counter balance this:
- Option to pack up and move on - uproot your PI, your infrastructure and just move to a new planet.
- Have more than 1 installation on a planet - I don't want to have to manage relationships with up to 6 different POCO owners.
- Allow the installation of basic defences eg like POS defences. But severely limited to that CPU/PG around the POCO so they take more than a 3 man corp. to pop.
- Limit introduction of this to 0.5 and 0.6 to begin with.
Cheers Ramm.
Here's an option for you
1. make friends 2. put up your own pocos before others 3. train the skill 4. enjoy lower taxes than before 5. get free pvp if someone decs you
but I know, effort doesn't work in hisec, but still, you guys are baffling.
Notify-į-į You cannot do that while warping. |
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