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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Tanaka Aiko
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
187
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
New skill make no sense again. You should simply make so that everyone has half cost for NPCs. Or use existing trade skills here. |
Elemenohpee
Output Industries
0
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
So all that's going to happen is a large nullsec entity hits a whole bunch of highsec customs offices and puts up their own pocos setting 60% tax, meaning I pay 70% tax overall.
It then costs me 500 mill to dec them to hit their poco, which I wont bother doing as to make that back from hisec pi will take months.
So basically your giving large null alliances free isk.
GG
Maybe if you hold sov you shouldn't be able to hold highsec pocos? |
Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
52
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:45:00 -
[33] - Quote
Quote:The NPC tax will continue for hi sec POCOs (as we want low sec POCOs to still be competitive). The tax rate stays the same, at 10% for export and 5% for import. This is then in addition to whatever tax the player owner sets.
Wow, I was... so pumped for this until I read that. The highsec factory planet is never coming back is it... |
Obil Que
Star Explorers space weaponry and trade
29
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
Any changes to the deployment of POCOs in regards to anchoring time/upgrade time?
I could see a fairly interesting development of people warping in logi + hauler or even using a blockade runner to "ninja drop" a POCO in place where another fleet had done the work of removing the Interbus. It certainly makes for contemplating some interesting tactics on how this would work but the very short timer for anchoring and upgrading a POCO makes it possible and once it is in place, the wardec mechanic makes it all but impossible to remove as you need to wait out the wardec timer. |
Ripard Teg
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
745
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Woo! Feedback time :) Ahem. *cough cough*
Seriously, the CSM is also looking forward to hearing player feedback on this one, particularly on the "null-sec take-over of high-sec POCOs" question that's already come up on page one. Can high-sec entities make it more trouble than it's worth to GSF or other null-sec entities to defend against reinforced POCOs over and over again? Or will the cost of the war-dec itself be the primary shield? Jester's Trek: wherein I ramble about EVE Online, gaming, and from time to time... life. |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1892
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
Elemenohpee wrote:So all that's going to happen is a large nullsec entity hits a whole bunch of highsec customs offices and puts up their own pocos setting 60% tax, meaning I pay 70% tax overall.
It then costs me 500 mill to dec them to hit their poco, which I wont bother doing as to make that back from hisec pi will take months.
So basically your giving large null alliances free isk.
GG
Maybe if you hold sov you shouldn't be able to hold highsec pocos?
Nah, why would we do that? Then no one uses them and we don't actually make any isk for them. Unless you're saying you're dumb enough to pay a 70% tax anyway.
Here's what really happens.
You train the skill right away, lowering the NPC portion of the tax to 5%.
Then, we seize the POCOs right away, at least some of them, and set our own tax to something - probably, as it happens, 5%.
Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems.
Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Kinis Deren
The Nyan Cat Pirates Disband.
187
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:52:00 -
[37] - Quote
Guess what the goon horde and hangers on will be doing this winter LOL. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1215
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
As the person that developed the highsec poco plans...Your fears of Goons taking over all the highsec pocos are completely unfounded. It isn't required or desired.
What you should really be worried about hasn't even been brought up yet. Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal - Want to follow the latest scandals? @EVEAryth |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Aegis Solaris
2196
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:58:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:CCP Paradox wrote:Woo! Feedback time :) Ahem. *cough cough* Seriously, the CSM is also looking forward to hearing player feedback on this one, particularly on the "null-sec take-over of high-sec POCOs" question that's already come up on page one. Can high-sec entities make it more trouble than it's worth to GSF or other null-sec entities to defend against reinforced POCOs over and over again? Or will the cost of the war-dec itself be the primary shield? The cost is one shield. Also the reason many players live in high sec rather than moving elsewhere is they do not enjoy combat. Its unlikely they will initiate something they do not enjoy. Thats another shield. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Sern Tanalon
Galactic Extensive Technologies SUB ROSA ALLIANCE
33
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:CCP Paradox wrote:Woo! Feedback time :) Ahem. *cough cough* Seriously, the CSM is also looking forward to hearing player feedback on this one, particularly on the "null-sec take-over of high-sec POCOs" question that's already come up on page one. Can high-sec entities make it more trouble than it's worth to GSF or other null-sec entities to defend against reinforced POCOs over and over again? Or will the cost of the war-dec itself be the primary shield?
This was also the issue in my own mind.
Whereas the cargo capacity of the command center is only 500 m3, this makes the alternative "rocket launch" delivery system impractical for any significant PI operation. Thus, any high-sec PI of any real significance must still be done using the POCOs. Any large power block can squeeze this process, and most carebears will react not with wardecs but by stopping PI and going to do something else.
Other power blocks could contest this, but I doubt many high-sec based alliances will. I foresee this bringing wars between nullsec organizations into high-sec more often (which is fine if that's the intention), but not necessary more war BY high-sec entities.
And of course, with nullsec PI per planet much higher than in high-sec, nullsec power blocks can shut-down high-sec PI "just for LOLs" with minimal impact on their fuel production (unless high-sec PI has a bigger share of the market than I think it does). |
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Mangala Solaris
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
628
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
I am now taking advance payments to ensure that you make it on to the "RvB Do Not Tax" list for all our future POCOs in The Forge region & the Aptetter constellation in Metropolis.
Please add the note "POCO Tax" to your deposits.
Mangala Undocked |
Elana Maggal
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".
PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.
|
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
18
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I hope this works in game like the devs have planned in there heads.
Like the already way too powerful powerblocks getting even more power? Yes, it will certainly work this way. All Plasma and Lava-Planets are most likely going to be under the jurisdiction of one or two particularly prominent/notorious alliances, that's for sure.
Nevertheless, it's interesting since it' is in turn likely to drive prices up. \o/ |
Daenna Chrysi
Omega Foundry Unit Shadows Of Betrayal
67
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
This could kill the PI, as any large scale operation would cost more to keep running than it would be worth, even with one more skill to push to 5.
Already the export taxes are painfully high, and now the player set taxes come on top of the NPC taxes, this is going to choke the PI production to so that only those who can afford to be in a war 24/7 can afford to have any kind of poco. Any large scale production becomes impossible to manage as the assets are too widely spread and thus impossible to defend for independent operators.
The income I get from PI is the only reason why I still actively play the game, because I can get things done even if I cant go and grind 9 hours a day anymore. if I dont have time to grind for 9 hours a day, I most certainly wont be able to defend the pocos I would need to keep my production profitable enough to be worth the effort. Theres no way in hell ill trust any other player to stick to their word of reasonable taxes, or their ability to hold on to the poco for extended periods of time.
While I wont emoragequit as soon as this hits, CCP is making clear that only kind of player welcome in the game is the one who wants to **** the other players harder than everyone else. |
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
88
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
Can I get clarification on the anchoring please (and sorry if this has already been asked).
Do you have to have local faction standing to anchor like you would a pos?
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Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
58
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Please also remove the SOV requirement in nullsec to place command centers. This would allow us to open it up based on standings and share planets with people. We can lockout hostiles with 100% tax rates if so desired.
^^This +1
- Also will more change to PI will be coming in the future? (i.e: UI, maybe new items to produce)
- Will the cargo capacity of the command center be increase or would you allow for multiple launch withing a certain period before the cool down timer sets in?
Thank you for your future response! |
Fix Lag
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
557
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:11:00 -
[47] - Quote
As long as corporations/alliances that are basically permanently wardecced have a way to transfer POCOs while at war this should be fine. |
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CCP Paradox
953
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Philpip wrote:Can I get clarification on the anchoring please (and sorry if this has already been asked).
Do you have to have local faction standing to anchor like you would a pos?
No, no restrictions like that. CCP Paradox | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Super Friends @CCP_Paradox |
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Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
88
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Philpip wrote:Can I get clarification on the anchoring please (and sorry if this has already been asked).
Do you have to have local faction standing to anchor like you would a pos?
No, no restrictions like that.
Thanks for clearing that up. Is that a hint towards the future with respect to pos's? |
Fix Lag
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
557
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
Aryth wrote:What you should really be worried about hasn't even been brought up yet.
"This is only the beginning!" |
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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
5
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Elemenohpee wrote:So all that's going to happen is a large nullsec entity hits a whole bunch of highsec customs offices and puts up their own pocos setting 60% tax, meaning I pay 70% tax overall.
It then costs me 500 mill to dec them to hit their poco, which I wont bother doing as to make that back from hisec pi will take months.
So basically your giving large null alliances free isk.
GG
Maybe if you hold sov you shouldn't be able to hold highsec pocos? Nah, why would we do that? Then no one uses them and we don't actually make any isk for them. Unless you're saying you're dumb enough to pay a 70% tax anyway. Here's what really happens. You train the skill right away, lowering the NPC portion of the tax to 5%. Then, we seize the POCOs right away, at least some of them, and set our own tax to something - probably, as it happens, 5%. Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems.
Would not make sense for GSF to take over all of the POCO in high sec and raise to taxes to, for example, 70% ? Then no one would use them and the price for PI materials would go up exponentially so GSF could then make excellent profits on their nullsec PI operations. If this were to happen would the CSM and/or CCP consider this to be a good change ? |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
607
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lakshata Chawla wrote:So... You're keeping the NPC tax rates on the pocos, even if they're owned by a player?
There doesn't seem to be any incentive to do PI in highsec then since you can probably just find a nice C1, have no tax, and actually just mine the resources yourself.
If you want to remove NPC pocos, remove the NPC tax on pocos as well. Yeah, It now seems that hisec PI will be all but untenable due to the costs. The margins on PI goods aren't that great to begin with, and certainly not after you'll be doubly taxed for them.
The other major concern is what is to stop a large null sec alliance from coming into high sec and setting up lots of POCOs, using the enormous wardec cost as a shield??
All I see coming from this change is less high sec PI being done and null sec alliances now having a way to tax high sec players as well. Why not add a cumulative "upkeep tax" to alliances based on how many POCOs they have?
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
Ugleb
Jotunn Risi Ushra'Khan
367
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
About the new skill....
Who has to train it? Is it trained by the CEO and applied to the Corp in the same way as a skill that increases max Corp membership?
If so, do we really need another skill that only a handful of characters will ever train and becomes nearly compulsory in order for the Corp to compete? It just doesn't sound very interesting and will be a barrier to entry for newer players trying to develop their characters/corps. http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/
The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.-á Join channel JORIS to learn more! |
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:21:00 -
[54] - Quote
Question for CCP:
With POCOs being introduced into high sec does this mean that material amounts that can be obtained from planets in high sec will be raised to the same amounts as can be obtained from low sec planets? |
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
18
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:21:00 -
[55] - Quote
Bethan Le Troix wrote:mynnna wrote:Elemenohpee wrote:So all that's going to happen is a large nullsec entity hits a whole bunch of highsec customs offices and puts up their own pocos setting 60% tax, meaning I pay 70% tax overall.
It then costs me 500 mill to dec them to hit their poco, which I wont bother doing as to make that back from hisec pi will take months.
So basically your giving large null alliances free isk.
GG
Maybe if you hold sov you shouldn't be able to hold highsec pocos? [...] Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems. Would not make sense for GSF to take over all of the POCO in high sec and raise to taxes to, for example, 70% ? Then no one would use them and the price for PI materials would go up exponentially so GSF could then make excellent profits on their nullsec PI operations. If this were to happen would the CSM and/or CCP consider this to be a good change ?
From what it seems: Working as intended. CCP is infested with Goons and so is the CSM, which in turn means best features ever. /s
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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
5
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Ugleb wrote:About the new skill....
Who has to train it? Is it trained by the CEO and applied to the Corp in the same way as a skill that increases max Corp membership?
If so, do we really need another skill that only a handful of characters will ever train and becomes nearly compulsory in order for the Corp to compete? It just doesn't sound very interesting and will be a barrier to entry for newer players trying to develop their characters/corps.
It will obviously be a skill you will have to train on all the chars you have that want to do PI. |
Ugleb
Jotunn Risi Ushra'Khan
367
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
About the new skill....
Who has to train it? Is it trained by the CEO and applied to the Corp in the same way as a skill that increases max Corp membership?
If so, do we really need another skill that only a handful of characters will ever train and becomes nearly compulsory in order for the Corp to compete? It just doesn't sound very interesting and will be a barrier to entry for newer players trying to develop their characters/corps. http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/
The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.-á Join channel JORIS to learn more! |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
607
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Nah, why would we do that? Then no one uses them and we don't actually make any isk for them. Unless you're saying you're dumb enough to pay a 70% tax anyway. Here's what really happens. You train the skill right away, lowering the NPC portion of the tax to 5%. Then, we seize the POCOs right away, at least some of them, and set our own tax to something - probably, as it happens, 5%. Then RvB or someone contests our pocos and in the ongoing monthlong war, they're constantly being destroyed and reinforced, such that everyone who was using them before moves to different systems. At GSF is admitting that they'll be doing the high sec POCO grab.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5099
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 16:26:00 -
[59] - Quote
Elana Maggal wrote:So you pretty much hand over PI to the larger alliances, **** over smaller solo players, and make Hi-sec more like low-sec and null-sec which stupidly is considered a "good thing".
PI was a boring piece of crap anyway so - goodbye PI.
heaven forbid in this massively multiplayer game one might get advantages from being able to work with other people |
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
5
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Posted - 2013.10.01 16:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Lakshata Chawla wrote:So... You're keeping the NPC tax rates on the pocos, even if they're owned by a player?
There doesn't seem to be any incentive to do PI in highsec then since you can probably just find a nice C1, have no tax, and actually just mine the resources yourself.
If you want to remove NPC pocos, remove the NPC tax on pocos as well.
I was expecting the high sec tax to be dropped as well given that everywhere will be the same then with POCO everywhere. Doesn't make sense somehow especially if the amounts of PI material on high sec planets is not increased in line with low sec planets for example |
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