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Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
408
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Posted - 2013.10.03 18:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would make 0.0 sov mechanics without any mechanics.
- Sov would be claimed like in lowsec, by presence and dominance over other entities.
- I would leave IHUBS to boost the system for resource gathering.
IHUBS would allow building of POSes
IHUBS would be upgradable to lv 5 (100% more resources)
IHUBS would be reinforced easily even with medium guns.
IHUBS could be reinforced from lv5 to -lv5.
Every lv would take more and more hp to be reinforced. Giving the opportunity for small gang to be effective against enemies and not making bigger guns and fleets worthless.
When the IHUB reaches lv -5, it would enter in reinforce mode. The reinforce mode would work like for POCOs (you set the time, 2 hours span, when you want the IHUB to get out of the reinforce). It would give -100% resources in the system and would be destructible the day or 2 days after.
Repairing IHUBS would take the same time as it took to reinforce it
* - resources mean: Less asteroids, Less anomalies, less signatures POSes extract less and less moon goo, lesser station bonuses
Every nullsec region should have 1-3 themed point of interests (ruins, ship graveyards etc...) where if you orbit a beacon for some amount of time, your fleet gets the respective bonuses. If the enemy team beats your defending fleet and succeeds to orbit the beacon for 15 min, the opposing fleet get the bonus in that region.
*The tech is there. Combine FW and incursions and u get the sov and bonus mechanics.
Benefits: - No more awful amounts of hp grind - Occupied space will be more profitable - Sov would be claimed trough fights and not trough structure grind - Smaller fleets would have an impact - Non patrolled space would be subject to very big penalization - New deployable structures should find some really interesting way of use in this setting
Cons: - No more API feeded sov map - Large, too stretched alliances would have lots of troubles
Don't have any more cons on this idea. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1757
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Posted - 2013.10.03 21:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cons:
Nothing to fight over SOV is now decided by who can orbit a thingy, not who can win a fight or five Nothing to fight over No more RF timers to allow for fleets to forkm up to kick the snot out of one another Nothing to fight over No more big fights
Did I mention the lack of fights? :V |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
410
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Posted - 2013.10.03 22:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Cons:
Nothing to fight over SOV is now decided by who can orbit a thingy, not who can win a fight or five Nothing to fight over No more RF timers to allow for fleets to forkm up to kick the snot out of one another Nothing to fight over No more big fights
Did I mention the lack of fights? :V
I think you are not aware of how nullsec works at the moment . There would be lot more of fights.
Wars in nullsec are not waged because of infrastructures. It is about resources. Resources will still be there so wars and battles will be there too. If PL wants to take moons from Goons, they would still need to take out the IHUB and put their POS. But with these mechanics even me with few other can go and reinforce a Goons IHUB in some remote region and take out their POS produciton.
Atm space doesn't meter for holders, except a constellation with a good truesec. You need 1-2 pf those for your alliance and rest of space is pretty much only jumps. With these new IHUBS even ****** systems will be decent and the stations will be also better for manufacturing. So instead only 1-2 good systems per region there will be quite few more. Which will make some place less crowded for farming. Which means more isk/hour for members.
Orbiting won't give you SOV. but will give some nice bonuses for defensive fleets, ratters or offensive fleets and roaming gangs. Having 2-3 of those places per region will give another dimension to how fights are done. There will be a main fight and 2-3 more for those objectives.
With all these possibilities mercenary market will arise from ashes. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Onajebomba
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.04 08:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well it is not bad, not bad at all. |
Noxicae
UNSTABLE NEIGHBORHOOD
0
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Posted - 2013.10.05 09:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
I could see this work. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
366
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Posted - 2013.10.05 10:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Cons:
Nothing to fight over SOV is now decided by who can orbit a thingy, not who can win a fight or five Nothing to fight over No more RF timers to allow for fleets to forkm up to kick the snot out of one another Nothing to fight over No more big fights
Did I mention the lack of fights? :V I think you are not aware of how nullsec works at the moment . There would be lot more of fights. Wars in nullsec are not waged because of infrastructures. It is about resources. Resources will still be there so wars and battles will be there too. If PL wants to take moons from Goons, they would still need to take out the IHUB and put their POS. But with these mechanics even me with few other can go and reinforce a Goons IHUB in some remote region and take out their POS produciton. Atm space doesn't meter for holders, except a constellation with a good truesec. You need 1-2 pf those for your alliance and rest of space is pretty much only jumps. With these new IHUBS even ****** systems will be decent and the stations will be also better for manufacturing. So instead only 1-2 good systems per region there will be quite few more. Which will make some place less crowded for farming. Which means more isk/hour for members. Orbiting won't give you SOV. but will give some nice bonuses for defensive fleets, ratters or offensive fleets and roaming gangs. Having 2-3 of those places per region will give another dimension to how fights are done. There will be a main fight and 2-3 more for those objectives. With all these possibilities mercenary market will arise from ashes.
i think you'll find that this is how null sec wars used to be fought, now its about volume of space that you can develop towards renters. Moon goo is no where near as profitable as it used to be, theres very few bottlenecking of resources anymore and of the few that do exist, moons are spread across the galaxy so much theres no ability to artificially restrict the flow of those resources.
Also your proposal does not discuss how NPC null sec would work. but extrapolating from what you've said no one would be able to anchor and online pos's in npc nullsec. not to sensationalise this oversight but that can litterally kill several alliances in the game and would cause many supercap toons to stay permanently logged off.
also i know this may sound like nitpicking, but pos's arent built in null sec. we buy them in high and ship them to null. but ive assumed you mean anchoring and onlining.
plz think for more than 10 minutes before putting together a sovereignty mechanic or something to that effect. preferably sleep on it for a while so u can brainstorm all possible issues with your proposal.
also about making fights... part of the joys of having claimed sovereignty of a system is that people know about it. It means people who want to f*ck your sh*t up know where to come to do it. and not to put too finer point on it but grudge fights have been the reason for the largest of wars (MAX campaigns, Bob vs Goons etc...). |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
424
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Posted - 2013.10.05 16:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Cons:
Nothing to fight over SOV is now decided by who can orbit a thingy, not who can win a fight or five Nothing to fight over No more RF timers to allow for fleets to forkm up to kick the snot out of one another Nothing to fight over No more big fights
Did I mention the lack of fights? :V I think you are not aware of how nullsec works at the moment . There would be lot more of fights. Wars in nullsec are not waged because of infrastructures. It is about resources. Resources will still be there so wars and battles will be there too. If PL wants to take moons from Goons, they would still need to take out the IHUB and put their POS. But with these mechanics even me with few other can go and reinforce a Goons IHUB in some remote region and take out their POS produciton. Atm space doesn't meter for holders, except a constellation with a good truesec. You need 1-2 pf those for your alliance and rest of space is pretty much only jumps. With these new IHUBS even ****** systems will be decent and the stations will be also better for manufacturing. So instead only 1-2 good systems per region there will be quite few more. Which will make some place less crowded for farming. Which means more isk/hour for members. Orbiting won't give you SOV. but will give some nice bonuses for defensive fleets, ratters or offensive fleets and roaming gangs. Having 2-3 of those places per region will give another dimension to how fights are done. There will be a main fight and 2-3 more for those objectives. With all these possibilities mercenary market will arise from ashes. i think you'll find that this is how null sec wars used to be fought, now its about volume of space that you can develop towards renters. Moon goo is no where near as profitable as it used to be, theres very few bottlenecking of resources anymore and of the few that do exist, moons are spread across the galaxy so much theres no ability to artificially restrict the flow of those resources. Also your proposal does not discuss how NPC null sec would work. but extrapolating from what you've said no one would be able to anchor and online pos's in npc nullsec. not to sensationalise this oversight but that can litterally kill several alliances in the game and would cause many supercap toons to stay permanently logged off. also i know this may sound like nitpicking, but pos's arent built in null sec. we buy them in high and ship them to null. but ive assumed you mean anchoring and onlining. plz think for more than 10 minutes before putting together a sovereignty mechanic or something to that effect. preferably sleep on it for a while so u can brainstorm all possible issues with your proposal. also about making fights... part of the joys of having claimed sovereignty of a system is that people know about it. It means people who want to f*ck your sh*t up know where to come to do it. and not to put too finer point on it but grudge fights have been the reason for the largest of wars (MAX campaigns, Bob vs Goons etc...).
Upgredable IHUBs would make systems much more valuable than they are now. This would add a quality factor to space which would change the quantity that is present atm. As i suggest one region could hold many alliances without making it too crowded. There would be plenty of space for renters.
NPC null would be left as it is now. Basically lowsec with bubbles and doomsdays and without gate guns and the possibility to be forced out of it.
If there is no IHUB everyone could anchor a POS. So NPC nullsec and lowsec would have no harm from this change. While in null if the IHUB is up only the alliance or corp that anchored the IHUB will be able to anchor the POS.
You will always know where someone 's space is. API will track whose IHUBS are
As u see everything is in its place. Believe me i thought about it a lot.
*Yeah sry was a mistake. I intended Anchoring instead of building. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
1169
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 18:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Cons:
Nothing to fight over SOV is now decided by who can orbit a thingy, not who can win a fight or five Nothing to fight over No more RF timers to allow for fleets to forkm up to kick the snot out of one another Nothing to fight over No more big fights
Did I mention the lack of fights? :V I think you are not aware of how nullsec works at the moment .
Ahahhahahahahahahahahaha....did you really write that? Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
425
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 23:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Cons:
Nothing to fight over SOV is now decided by who can orbit a thingy, not who can win a fight or five Nothing to fight over No more RF timers to allow for fleets to forkm up to kick the snot out of one another Nothing to fight over No more big fights
Did I mention the lack of fights? :V I think you are not aware of how nullsec works at the moment . Ahahhahahahahahahahahaha....did you really write that?
"No more RF timers to allow for fleets to form up to kick the snot out of one another" Judging by these words, yeah i really wrote that. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Chumuranje Ciganluk
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.07 16:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
This guy has some valid points. Nice suggestions! |
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
1175
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 16:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Cons:
Nothing to fight over SOV is now decided by who can orbit a thingy, not who can win a fight or five Nothing to fight over No more RF timers to allow for fleets to forkm up to kick the snot out of one another Nothing to fight over No more big fights
Did I mention the lack of fights? :V I think you are not aware of how nullsec works at the moment . Ahahhahahahahahahahahaha....did you really write that? "No more RF timers to allow for fleets to form up to kick the snot out of one another" Judging by these words, yeah i really wrote that.
1. Do a bit of research so you don't come across as uninformed. Danika is a member of TNT, a null sov holding alliance. As such, he probably has a passing familiarity with null sec sov warfare works.
2. If you want to persuade people, telling them they are ignorant doesn't help.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
434
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 16:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Cons:
Nothing to fight over SOV is now decided by who can orbit a thingy, not who can win a fight or five Nothing to fight over No more RF timers to allow for fleets to forkm up to kick the snot out of one another Nothing to fight over No more big fights
Did I mention the lack of fights? :V I think you are not aware of how nullsec works at the moment . Ahahhahahahahahahahahaha....did you really write that? "No more RF timers to allow for fleets to form up to kick the snot out of one another" Judging by these words, yeah i really wrote that. 1. Do a bit of research so you don't come across as uninformed. Danika is a member of TNT, a null sov holding alliance. As such, he probably has a passing familiarity with null sec sov warfare works. 2. If you want to persuade people, telling them they are ignorant doesn't help.
Never said ignorant, just that he is not aware based on the comment he posted, which he based upon timers that everyone hates. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
1187
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 17:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
1. Do a bit of research so you don't come across as uninformed. Danika is a member of TNT, a null sov holding alliance. As such, he probably has a passing familiarity with null sec sov warfare works.
2. If you want to persuade people, telling them they are ignorant doesn't help.
Never said ignorant, just that he is not aware based on the comment he posted, which he based upon timers that everyone hates.
You certainly strongly implied it.
Timers are there for a reason, to try and promote fights. Maybe it fails, but removing them wont necessarily promote more fights either.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
435
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 20:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
1. Do a bit of research so you don't come across as uninformed. Danika is a member of TNT, a null sov holding alliance. As such, he probably has a passing familiarity with null sec sov warfare works.
2. If you want to persuade people, telling them they are ignorant doesn't help.
Never said ignorant, just that he is not aware based on the comment he posted, which he based upon timers that everyone hates. You certainly strongly implied it. Timers are there for a reason, to try and promote fights. Maybe it fails, but removing them wont necessarily promote more fights either.
I never said they would be totally removed. But there would be lot less with other mehcanics i mentioned added will promote lot more fights. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Atlantis Fuanan
Uncharted Skies Cerberus Unleashed
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.08 21:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
I like that, i support actualy every suggestion that forces activity to control instead of having it done "once" by having one clash, dropping **** and then never visit system again. Things that would make EVE better: NRDS - Remove Local - Balance Cloak - Sov-Mechanic Changes - Less QQ |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
436
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 10:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Atlantis Fuanan wrote:I like that, i support actualy every suggestion that forces activity to control instead of having it done "once" by having one clash, dropping **** and then never visit system again.
Yeah it is exactly what motivated me when coming up with the suggestion. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
186
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 10:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
This idea is terrible. Please remove thyself from the premises and return to FWlandia where such mechanics and "sov" ping-pong could actually work.
The issue with 0.0 is the absolute lack of incentive to fight over it, other than preventing others from holding it. W-space offers better isk income. Farming FW LP offers better isk income. Farming L4s offers similar isk income with a fraction of the risk, especially with upcoming interceptor changes.
The big "thing" about a nullsec fight is that it has a meaning. It's not just "pew pew with disposable ships". Through wars alliances break out of obscurity and become famous. Through war coalitions fracture and crumble, taking with themselves the alliances that formed them.
Timers aren't hated. Timers are a way to prepare. If you know in advance the enemy is coming, you have time to prepare your defences. This is how many big battles start - over timers that protect significant resources. Since the downfall of moon-based income, another said resource was eliminated, leaving less incentive to fight.
If anything, sov null needs buffs to become an industrial powerhouse and a stable, habitable zone. Making it increasingly unstable and easier to take would just ruin it as a place where the legendary large-scale wars are waged.
(Crank up the incentive to be there and THEN consider taking a nerfbat to the means used to hold them. You might see that it's more difficulty to hold something when there's more people gunning for it.) Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Atlantis Fuanan
Uncharted Skies Cerberus Unleashed
33
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Posted - 2013.10.09 14:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote: If anything, sov null needs buffs to become an industrial powerhouse and a stable, habitable zone. Making it increasingly unstable and easier to take would just ruin it as a place where the legendary large-scale wars are waged.
(Crank up the incentive to be there and THEN consider taking a nerfbat to the means used to hold them. You might see that it's more difficulty to hold something when there's more people gunning for it.)
Your incentive is grounded upon some idea of "Profit", but did you ever considered how much effort you have to put in some space to CAPTURE it? And now compare that one-time event from capturing to the overall KEEPING it effort done in pretty deep alliance 0.0 space. Can you see it? There is nearly none. Oh another big alliance isn't trying to take it? What about the smaller corpses that could have the oppurtunity to CAPTURE one of these Systems you never used and never visited anyways? THEN the big boys come to play, how awesome they have to be. Things that would make EVE better: NRDS - Remove Local - Balance Cloak - Sov-Mechanic Changes - Less QQ |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
74
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 17:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Null should be governed by only one rule: Might makes right !!
The sooner this is the case the better, even if that means all of null ends up in the hands of the Goonswarm. Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really. |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
437
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 18:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Atlantis Fuanan wrote:Trii Seo wrote: If anything, sov null needs buffs to become an industrial powerhouse and a stable, habitable zone. Making it increasingly unstable and easier to take would just ruin it as a place where the legendary large-scale wars are waged.
(Crank up the incentive to be there and THEN consider taking a nerfbat to the means used to hold them. You might see that it's more difficulty to hold something when there's more people gunning for it.)
Your incentive is grounded upon some idea of "Profit", but did you ever considered how much effort you have to put in some space to CAPTURE it? And now compare that one-time event from capturing to the overall KEEPING it effort done in pretty deep alliance 0.0 space. Can you see it? There is nearly none. Oh another big alliance isn't trying to take it? What about the smaller corpses that could have the oppurtunity to CAPTURE one of these Systems you never used and never visited anyways? THEN the big boys come to play, how awesome they have to be.
Exactly.
To Trii Seo: As first, read carefully what someone suggests. Everything you wrote against in there is nowhere to be red in my suggestion.
- I got an alt carebear in 0.0. Anomalies are the best possible income in EVE. You get much more and faster isk than lv 4s. In WH you need 5 full skilled guys so you get a nice income and is 10 times more dangerous. In 0.0 whenever i got time i log and earn 75 mil per hour with no problems and that is not even tryharding, with an alt that has almost 10 mil SP. Don't want to even mention how good the exploration is.
- The problem is that these conditions are not present everywhere, only in 2-3 systems per region. Alliance members being concentraded in mostly 1 constellation, that diminishes the income rate.
This suggestion is here to fix the problem: *Upgradeable truesec status (more anomalies per system). Here would be needed to nerf the bounties and boost drop of T1 modules. *More rare ore in belts. *Upgradeable stations. Faster productions chains, more slots, cheaper clones *Higher extraction rate of moon harvesters. Or more moon goo in asteroids if CCP changes the way the moon go extraction operates. *POSs cost less fuel to maintain
This will make every system much more worth than it is now. There would be much more space for corp members, alliance renter program, Industrialist dreamworld and Moons would worth more, even the sucky ones. So the war would be after each system not only after those with better moons and best truesec, which in this case would be even more precious.
But everything can't be a fairytale. You would need to live in that space and take care of it. IHUBs would be easily downgradeable by enemy force even into the -. So if you are not there, attacked IHUBS will get the system much worse even than it is now.
If your alliance deployes somewhere and if it doesn't have a force to protect your sov. It would be easily pillaged to the ground by mercenaries.
- Timer are hated, because there are too much of them, What i suggest diminishes them by a lot, but leaves enough important ones for large epic battles to happen. For example 3 timers for structures is really stupid. There should be 2.
I just want to say that i have quite an experience from 0.0. My first year of EVE i was actively active in nullsec warfare. From when the DRF drove out NC, trough the DRF taking HED to when AAA and Nulli drove us out together with RA out of Tenerifes. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |
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Red Teufel
Mafia Redux Phobia.
229
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 18:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
an altered form of of FW sov mechanics I would support. There should be no accel gates limiting the size of ship in 0.0 Heck make more space in a different area and try it out. |
Nockturna
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 12:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Awesome stuff! |
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