Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Disco Soliloquy
Major Kong Freight
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 06:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
You can find the article here:
http://themittani.com/news/ccp-secretly-gifted-somer-blink-ishukone-scorpions
Curious. This seems unprecedented. Telling too, that Somer, realizing how this will look, instructs his employees to be very low-key, and to deal their ships on unrelated alt characters.
Also alarming that CCP informed Somer that they intend to help with future promotions.
Does Somer earn that much for CCP in extra GTC purchases? Might people with gambling problems be purchasing GTCs with real-money to support their addiction? Is there a question of morality here, perhaps? |
Ethan Snow
Eve Flash Executive Apotheosis
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 07:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
This totally needed another thread, and you're not at all a shiptoasting goon alt. |
Disco Soliloquy
Major Kong Freight
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 07:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ethan Snow wrote:This totally needed another thread, and you're not at all a shiptoasting goon alt. It did need a thread in the correct location, sir. The CSM are our representatives, after all.
|
James Arget
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
184
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 07:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Disco Soliloquy wrote:Ethan Snow wrote:This totally needed another thread, and you're not at all a shiptoasting goon alt. It did need a thread in the correct location, sir. The CSM are our representatives, after all. Those of us who are awake are keeping tabs on things in the other channel. CSM 8 Representative
http://csm8.org |
Disco Soliloquy
Major Kong Freight
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 07:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
James Arget wrote:Disco Soliloquy wrote:Ethan Snow wrote:This totally needed another thread, and you're not at all a shiptoasting goon alt. It did need a thread in the correct location, sir. The CSM are our representatives, after all. Those of us who are awake are keeping tabs on things in the other channel. That's fine.
|
Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
218
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 07:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wait....
The CSM seriously didn't know CCP has been handing these out like candy for months now?
Were you not at fanfest?
Did you not watch SCL?
Do you not participate in any of the not-0.0-hivemind community events in Eve?
Hell, since most of you only play forums online and not eve - do you not read the sell order threads? |
Chitsa Jason
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
796
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 10:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Abditus Cularius wrote:Wait....
The CSM seriously didn't know CCP has been handing these out like candy for months now?
Were you not at fanfest?
Did you not watch SCL?
Do you not participate in any of the not-0.0-hivemind community events in Eve?
Hell, since most of you only play forums online and not eve - do you not read the sell order threads?
Why would we read sell order threads? Ha! CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
|
Chitsa Jason
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
796
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 10:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Here is the statement we did even before this article went out: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=281879 CSM8 Member Twitter:-á@ChitsaJason Skype: Casparas
|
Disco Soliloquy
Major Kong Freight
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 10:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Apparently CCP didn't take that statement very seriously, since the email to Somer concerning the 30 free Ishukone Watch Scorpions occurred yesterday. And their "apology" reply rings a little hollow now. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
662
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 12:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Exactly, the time stamp (aug 20( shows that we are looking at the same mistake, same timeline as before.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 |
|
NenYim
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 13:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
it still doesn't change the fact that CCP is giving away a bucket load of isk to people who already make a bucket load of isk in the first place... and secretly as well and the fact that somer doesn't have a moral compass when it comes to gambling, we see it in the news every day, the amount of damage gambling can do... this only encourages gambling and the proliferation of other sites like somer.
PS i know somer does contribute to the community, but i highly doubt its more then a fraction of the isk they make... personally, give them some game time/a few plex for the effort, not the items they are receiving now.... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16756
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 14:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Exactly, the time stamp (aug 20( shows that we are looking at the same mistake, same timeline as before.
m Nah. This looks like a completely new mistake.
This is not GÇ£we're going to give you unique ships so you have something fancy to put into the lotteryGÇ¥, but rather GÇ£we're going to give you unique ships. Have fun.GÇ¥
The former at least made some minute amount of sense in that it sponsored some kind of community event. The latter is just T20-style feeding people goodies for no adequate reason.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
190
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 14:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[...] GÇ£we're going to give you unique ships. Have fun.GÇ¥ [...] is just T20-style feeding people goodies for no adequate reason. This is [...] handing specific individuals buckets of valuables. I wasn't around for T20, but wasn't T20 actually part of BoB and basically abused his power for ingame gains for himself and his group? Assuming (yes, this may be a stretch) that Internal Affairs is doing their job and those tasked with picking the rewardees are not tied to those ingame, this is a pretty different matter. CCP has always rewarded players, mostly via hardcoded ingame means, but also manually for certain achievements or such.
- All players get certain items (or ISK) for completing missions - All players that came to recent expos/fairs got codes for faction frigates - All players got a Primae in 2010 for the mere fact of beeing subscribed at this time, also more items at later dates - The only Megathron Federate Issue was manually given to a player for his part in a live event - Players that win at the AT or at one of the various on-site tournaments receive prices - A couple from New Zealand that married at Fanfest 2005 recieved an Opus Luxury Yacht - A bunch of players that attend Eve Vegas get free stuff, including some Collector's Editions (which contain valuable items) - Players that participated in the recent photoshooting event thingy recieved (I hope by now) rewards - Players that have their website acknowledged as fansite get free accounts - Now players that are part of acknowledged community sites recieve a special ship
It is true, one can argue how you can prevent favoritism if items are given out directly by devs.. but at the same time, how do you know that there isn't a way for a dev to give distinct people special mission rewards? Or spawn better sites in a w-space system?
They only started this community site reward program, so it's a bit early to judge if they show unjust favoritism by selecting only specific sites yet. |
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
209
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 15:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:CCP has always rewarded players, mostly via hardcoded ingame means, but also manually for certain achievements or such. Yep, the significant difference being that everyone can take part, it doesn't require to be hand-picked and deemed worthy by a dev.
Quote:but at the same time, how do you know that there isn't a way for a dev to give distinct people special mission rewards? Or spawn better sites in a w-space system? Of course it is theoretically possible for devs to do that, and if it came out that it actually happened the response wouldn't be any different from what we see now. So I'm not sure what your point here is.
Quote:They only started this community site reward program, so it's a bit early to judge if they show unjust favoritism by selecting only specific sites yet. Not really, they already started about as bad as they could, not only by choosing an ingame competitive for-profit organization, but even worse by handing out significant ingame valuables.
Quote:Another question if is we accept the community as part of the game, and thus accept rewarding actions/achievements outside the game. Consindering how everyone praises Eve for its metagame, it doesn't seem far off. The biggest part of the problem is that we aren't really talking about things outside of the game. Somer is an ingame organization and the rewards are also ingame valuables. Therefore the rewards distort ingame competition. If the organization had been outside of the game like e.g. the creators of EFT and the rewards had been out-of-game there wouldn't be a problem. |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
530
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 15:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm going to spell it out for people who obviously don't get it.
I pay to play this game.
I pay for a game in which the object is to become the biggest space badass, or the richest space industrialist, or the most devious space spy, or whatever. Those are the aspects of the game that CCP advertises and that's how CCP sold me the game in the first place.
I did not think I was getting a game in which the object is to become the biggest CCP ass kisser, the biggest fanboy of the developer of said game, so I can get all the best stuff handed to me by them and "win."
If I wanted that, there are probably hundreds of free to play game servers run by teenagers who like giving stuff to their buddies that I could play instead. If this article is true (and I am still a little skeptical, but only a little) then that's the level CCP has sunk to and I've been ripped off.
To be clear, I am speaking from my role as a CCP customer, not an in-game character or whatever. |
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
190
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 15:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Johnny Marzetti wrote:I'm going to spell it out for people who obviously don't get it.
I pay to play this game.
I pay for a game in which the object is to become the biggest space badass, or the richest space industrialist, or the most devious space spy, or whatever. Those are the aspects of the game that CCP advertises and that's how CCP sold me the game in the first place.
I did not think I was getting a game in which the object is to become the biggest CCP ass kisser, the biggest fanboy of the developer of said game, so I can get all the best stuff handed to me by them and "win."
If I wanted that, there are probably hundreds of free to play game servers run by teenagers who like giving stuff to their buddies that I could play instead. If this article is true (and I am still a little skeptical, but only a little) then that's the level CCP has sunk to and I've been ripped off.
To be clear, I am speaking from my role as a CCP customer, not an in-game character or whatever. http://www.eveonline.com/capsuleers/ That's also what CCP promotes.
And the issue is, like you mention.. does CCP give stuff to "its buddies" or to sites/players they think do good for the game overall? I am not really sure yet tbh. |
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
190
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 15:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rob Crowley wrote:Sephira Galamore wrote:CCP has always rewarded players, mostly via hardcoded ingame means, but also manually for certain achievements or such. Yep, the significant difference being that everyone can take part, it doesn't require to be hand-picked and deemed worthy by a dev. Everyone can do something for the community to eventually stand out. It just requires a lot of effort. I tried running a video news show but gave up as it's just too much work, at least for me right now. I can see why CCP is inclined to reward out-of-game efforts (which have in-game ties).. but there does have to be some more transparent process.
Rob Crowley wrote:Of course it is theoretically possible for devs to do that, and if it came out that it actually happened the response wouldn't be any different from what we see now. So I'm not sure what your point here is. My point is, whether CCP gives out items to players via code or manually doesn't determine if it's bad or not, what matters is if there is unjust favoritism at play. If you follow Dinsdale, the game code/design is full of goon favoritism.
Rob Crowley wrote:Quote:They only started this community site reward program, so it's a bit early to judge if they show unjust favoritism by selecting only specific sites yet. Not really, they already started about as bad as they could, not only by choosing an ingame competitive for-profit organization, but even worse by handing out significant ingame valuables. SOMER wasn't the first, EVE Radio was, but ye, I agree, the process is still too intransparent. They could e.g. adhere to the order of their community devblogs. Those had discussions threads by which they could assess if the community values those sites/projects to the same degree as CCP percieves it. |
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
213
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 17:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:Everyone can do something for the community to eventually stand out. No, cause "standing out" is a non-definable, arbitrary term. There's a reason why the AT winner is decided by a points system instead of CCP commentators picking the "stand out" team as a winner. All ingame rewards should be given out using a clear, non-arbitrary system.
Quote:My point is, whether CCP gives out items to players via code or manually doesn't determine if it's bad or not, what matters is if there is unjust favoritism at play. Yeah sure, I agree with that of course.
Quote:If you follow Dinsdale, the game code/design is full of goon favoritism. No idea who or what Dinsdale is, but could you provide an example of game code/design favouring Goons? Without having an example this sounds a lot like tinfoil hattery tbh, and I'm not affiliated with Goons in any way, shape or form.
|
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
428
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 18:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
If you feel the need to hide an award you don't deserve the reward. Either Somer is trying to make CCP look as bad as they possibly can or the whole mess is simply wrong from the start.
Stop "monitoring" CSM and give us your thoughts and actions.
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
|
|
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
169
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 18:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Discussion of CCP/Somer B.L.I.N.K. is being consolidated to this thread
Topic locked. ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
|
|
Montmazar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 20:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
So far I've only seen two CSM responses in the main general discussion thread. One by James Argent, where he says he agrees that Somer Blink is a "community service" and deserve free stuff for some reason but disagrees with giving them quite this much stuff, and Trebor Daehdoow who is just letting people know that he doesn't care, or something.
Simple question: are either of you receiving any space money from, real money from or have any other financial interest in Somer Blink?
Because if not. . .how they hell can you think a for-profit (and lots of profit) gambling site is a community service deserving any handout whatsoever? I almost wish the involved CSM members were just on the payroll. That is more comforting than you both being that dumb. |
Disco Soliloquy
Major Kong Freight
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 22:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:Exactly, the time stamp (aug 20( shows that we are looking at the same mistake, same timeline as before. I meant nevermind, in terms of editing my last post's content. Not in terms of the entire thread.
This is before the Gold Magnate announcement. This is worse than the Gold Magnate debacle. And this is something the CSM didn't know about. We're only learning about these 30 IW Scorps now. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2451
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 08:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
I hope you guys already understand this but I'll point it out just in case.
There's a big difference between winning an Ishukone Scorpion in a PvP Fanfest tournament and being selected by a dev to be handed one based on a covert and seemingly arbitrary process. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
935
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 10:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
T20 redux. The Tears Must Flow |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1588
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 14:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP seems to think that it's OK to give away very valuable things if those things only reprocess for one tritanium. It's not, because the items' ISK value is not determined by their mineral cost, ISK represents ingame advantage, and they are tradable on the market.
then again. i remember arguing against the suggestion that the items i got in the collector's edition were pay-to-win, when they are also sellable. perhaps i think differently there because the items are worth significantly less, the distribution is far greater and is not secret
Suggestion: Such 'thanks' items given out by CCP to community figures are blueprints, and the BPO and the item created are not exchangable between accounts. Because the battleship blueprint (for example) has a material cost (the cost of an ishukone scorp would be a normal scorp), it is not unfair to use it in battle, and because they're not tradeable, it's not the significant ISK advantage the Scorpions given to SOMER (and others, according to CCP) represent. If the blueprint is a BPO, these ships needn't even be hangar queens, and the recipients can fly around in them without fear of losing them, which I think would be great. Obviously such items would have the same stats as the regular ones.
CCP could create and give out as many 'thanks' items as they wish without any hassle. It's a little anti-EVE to have untradable items, but I feel it's more anti-EVE to give away items that have a great ISK value. The other problem is that if they're not tradable, a character undocking one would be giving away their identity, if it was secret. I think this is absolutely fine, it is the choice of the player to just have their ship in the hangar to look at (as with all current such ships tbh) or to undock. Perhaps untradable items should also not show up on API.
Oh. The prize items given to SOMER to put in a lottery should never happen again, though, unless the lottery is free and available to all without signing up to a website as suggested by CSM. Such a promotion would still raise awareness of SOMER which I have no problem with. But would not be handing them hundreds of billions of ISK from lottery entries. |
Manu Militari
The Leauge Of Surprisingly Well Dressed Men Suit Up.
25
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 19:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
Since CCP has set the precedent of giving such rewards to community contributors they find worthy, such as Somer, maybe you all should get off your high horses and work to contribute in a similar manner. Yes, Somer is a for profit gambling site. Yes, Somer employees make ISK. But that does not detract from the contributions Somer makes for Eve. Feel free to contribute to the community in a profitable way and CCP may recognize you.
Somer sponsors some of the more high profile Eve media contributors in the game; PVP Videos, Podcasts, etc. Somer sponsors many of the Eve CCP created and player created tournaments and prizes. Somer sponsors community groups within Eve such as RvB.
Somer does a lot for the Eve community. Why is it that everytime CCP does something its always a scandal? CCP takes the Eve community seriously and Eve players seem to take that for granted and whine about every CCP action that benefits someone else.
There is nothing wrong with CCP rewarding Somer. They reward many small time bloggers with free Plex and Subscriptions on a regular basis. Considering Somer's contribution is proportionately larger so is their reward. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11983
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Manu Militari wrote:
There is nothing wrong with CCP rewarding Somer. They reward many small time bloggers with free Plex and Subscriptions on a regular basis. Considering Somer's contribution is proportionately larger so is their reward.
Yeah pretty much.
The ISK value of the award to Somer is pretty much irrelevant. Somer have so much ISK that the ISK factor is meaningless to them - not to mention that the rarity value (and let's remember that rarity is all the trade value they have) of these ships just took a nosedive because they're now much less rare. And they're going to get even less rare in future as CCP hand more of them out to other deserving individuals. Comparing this to the T20 incident is just dumb and wrong.
The original plan of giving Somer Guardian Vexors and Gold Magnates was a horrible idea that cannibalised EVE's history for a short term PR event. Giving ships that have been specifically purposed as a community award as a community award to an organisation that has supported the community is pretty straightforward. The timing was bad and the transparency was very poor indeed, but as such this is pretty straightforward.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2461
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Manu Militari wrote:Since CCP has set the precedent of giving such rewards to community contributors they find worthy, such as Somer, maybe you all should get off your high horses and work to contribute in a similar manner. Yes, Somer is a for profit gambling site. Yes, Somer employees make ISK. But that does not detract from the contributions Somer makes for Eve. Feel free to contribute to the community in a profitable way and CCP may recognize you.
Somer sponsors some of the more high profile Eve media contributors in the game; PVP Videos, Podcasts, etc. Somer sponsors many of the Eve CCP created and player created tournaments and prizes. Somer sponsors community groups within Eve such as RvB.
Somer does a lot for the Eve community. Why is it that everytime CCP does something its always a scandal? CCP takes the Eve community seriously and Eve players seem to take that for granted and whine about every CCP action that benefits someone else.
There is nothing wrong with CCP rewarding Somer. They reward many small time bloggers with free Plex and Subscriptions on a regular basis. Considering Somer's contribution is proportionately larger so is their reward. This just in: Marketing is charity. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11983
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Manu Militari wrote:Since CCP has set the precedent of giving such rewards to community contributors they find worthy, such as Somer, maybe you all should get off your high horses and work to contribute in a similar manner. Yes, Somer is a for profit gambling site. Yes, Somer employees make ISK. But that does not detract from the contributions Somer makes for Eve. Feel free to contribute to the community in a profitable way and CCP may recognize you.
Somer sponsors some of the more high profile Eve media contributors in the game; PVP Videos, Podcasts, etc. Somer sponsors many of the Eve CCP created and player created tournaments and prizes. Somer sponsors community groups within Eve such as RvB.
Somer does a lot for the Eve community. Why is it that everytime CCP does something its always a scandal? CCP takes the Eve community seriously and Eve players seem to take that for granted and whine about every CCP action that benefits someone else.
There is nothing wrong with CCP rewarding Somer. They reward many small time bloggers with free Plex and Subscriptions on a regular basis. Considering Somer's contribution is proportionately larger so is their reward. This just in: Marketing is charity.
Who said anything about charity?
1 Kings 12:11
|
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
220
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 22:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:The ISK value of the award to Somer is pretty much irrelevant. Somer have so much ISK that the ISK factor is meaningless to them This might be the single dumbest thing that was written about this incident and the bar was pretty low already. "The team was already up by 65 to 14, so it's no big deal that the referee awarded them 2 extra points cause he liked their play style."
And of course the same reasoning could be applied to t20 once more, cause BoB was already winning, so no biggie, right?
Quote:The original plan of giving Somer Guardian Vexors and Gold Magnates was a horrible idea that cannibalised EVE's history for a short term PR event. Giving ships that have been specifically purposed as a community award as a community award to an organisation that has supported the community is pretty straightforward. No, absolutely not. While breaking lore is of course never a good idea if it can be avoided, honestly, who gives a damn compared to the integrity of the sandbox? Giving items of significant value to an ingame competitive for-profit organization is plain favouritism, distorts ingame competition and damages the integrity of the sandbox. It's as simple as that. And while in principle this is true for any amount of gifted items (or endorsements) the value of the items of course alters the severity. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |