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Alice Loreley
Citadel Space Exploration Agency
83
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 17:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Alice Loreley wrote:Let's discuss You must be new to manufacturing, as you are completely wrong, or another Brewlar Kuvakei alt.
Lady Naween wrote:nice to see you are still insane brewlar
You are paranoid or ate just to much blue pills? Go to a hospital and ask doctors to cure you with electricity or some sort of. I'm not the person you're talking about, so stop this nonsence.
Ninlarra wrote:Alice Loreley wrote: But the number of industrialists able to produce t2 equipment without significant losses is very-very low. And the invention system of present time just kills any hope to success. And as the final blow - you're just not able to withstand to someone who has a t2 bpo. This horrifically uninformed statement pisses me off. It pisses me off because you obviously have ZERO idea wtf you are talking about but for some reason still have the testicular fortitude to actually comment on it. How could you have done an iota of research on this subject and yet still make such an asinine statement? I'll tell you how. YOU DIDN'T! I started doing industry June 21st of this year. I started with 4.8 billion isk, no production skills, an unskilled alt, no pos, no idea how many different materials/components went into T2 and zero BPOs. I'm not going to go into detail but suffice to say I have a **** ton more isk and assets now than when I started. I suppose I should be happy there are idiots like you sitting around not producing anything cause its "just not possible" to make isk off of t2 production. You know what. Ignore this post. Carry on =p
You wrong, i did. But i start with much smaller money in my bag. Maybe because my original business was t1 construction. If you succeeded - it's great. I spend some time to invent t2 cruise missiles, but seems i did something terrible wrong, because my loss in invention reach a 50% barrier.
I don't want to ask anything more on this subject, because now i'm completely sure about my right decision to play eve in solo. Without any mess with insane people who find normal for them self to rush on anyone who take a different look.
Thank you for your comments. This topic can be closed
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Haulie Berry
1118
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 18:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
If you cannot make a substantial profit from invention, you are some combination of lazy and stupid. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
651
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 18:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
Alice Loreley wrote:I spend some time to invent t2 cruise missiles, but seems i did something terrible wrong, because my loss in invention reach a 50% barrier.
I'm bored, so...
Taking Scourge Fury Cruise missiles as an example since you didn't specify.
With minimum skills (Caldari Encryption, Electronic Engineering and Rocket Science at 1), invention chance is 42%. 1 Electronic Engineering data core, one Rocket Science data core needed. Jita sell prices: Electronic Engineering data core: 134 000 Rocket Science data core: 128 700
So a successful invention costs (on average) 625 500 ISK (Rounding to the nearest hundred). That results in a 10-run BPC at -4 ME
Building all 10 runs requires (Jita Sell prices according to eve-central)
Tritanium - 301,200 (4.89) Mexallon - 4,500 (39.66) Rocket Fuel - 1,260 (7288.16) Nocxium - 1,050 (657.52) Phenolic Composites - 590 (1214.78) Megacyte - 530 (1657.87) Morphite - 150 (7384.09) Graviton Pulse Generator - 140 (19489.93) R.A.M.- Ammunition Tech - 10 (66709.25)
Totalling that lot up per material: Tritanium: 1-á472-á868 Mexallon: 178-á470 Rocket Fuel: 9-á183-á081 Nocxium: 690-á396 Phenolic Composites: 716-á720 Megacyte: 878-á671 Morphite: 1-á107-á613 Graviton Pulse Generator: 2-á728-á590 R.A.M.- Ammunition Tech: 667-á092
Grand total: 17-á623-á501 ISK If we include the average invention cost calculated above, that puts the cost of inventing and building 50000 Scourge Fury Cruise Missiles at 18-á249-á001
So say 18 250 000 ISK (for ease)
Scourge Fury Cruise Missiles sell in Jita for 619.74 each. Total then for 50 000 missiles (ignoring tax solely because I don't want to try calculating it) is 30-á987-á000
That puts the profit for inventing and building 10 runs of Scourge Fury Cruise Missiles at 12 738 000 ISK (all prices calculated at Jita sell)
You're welcome to check my maths, I don't think I missed anything, but it's always a possibility. |
Alice Loreley
Citadel Space Exploration Agency
83
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 18:10:00 -
[34] - Quote
Well you may be proud with your 10% profit from invention. I don't want to waste my time if the profit is below 40-50%.
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Haulie Berry
1118
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 18:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alice Loreley wrote: Well you may be proud with your 10% profit from invention. I don't want to waste my time if the profit is below 40-50%.
Oh, I see. You're a margin humper.
Guess that pretty much tells us what the approximate mix of lazy and stupid is, here.
Probably mine your own minerals 'cause they're free that way, too. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2695
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 18:41:00 -
[36] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Alice Loreley wrote:I spend some time to invent t2 cruise missiles, but seems i did something terrible wrong, because my loss in invention reach a 50% barrier. I'm bored, so... Taking Scourge Fury Cruise missiles as an example since you didn't specify. With minimum skills (Caldari Encryption, Electronic Engineering and Rocket Science at 1), invention chance is 42%. 1 Electronic Engineering data core, one Rocket Science data core needed. Jita sell prices: Electronic Engineering data core: 134 000 Rocket Science data core: 128 700 So a successful invention costs (on average) 625 500 ISK (Rounding to the nearest hundred). That results in a 10-run BPC at -4 ME .... Grand total: 17 623 501 ISK If we include the average invention cost calculated above, that puts the cost of inventing and building 50000 Scourge Fury Cruise Missiles at 18 249 001 So say 18 250 000 ISK (for ease) Scourge Fury Cruise Missiles sell in Jita for 619.74 each. Total then for 50 000 missiles (ignoring tax solely because I don't want to try calculating it) is 30 987 000 That puts the profit for inventing and building 10 runs of Scourge Fury Cruise Missiles at 12 738 000 ISK (all prices calculated at Jita sell) You're welcome to check my maths, I don't think I missed anything, but it's always a possibility.
TBH, you shouldn't simply use the expected value for your BPC's invetion cost. There is a pretty high variance, and your "cost" should include that, or else half the time you are significantly undervaluing the cost of your BPC.
E(x) = 1 / p. Var = (1-p) / p^2 == sigma squared.
I'd recommend pricing your BPC using E(x) + 1.96 * sqrt (Var). This covers your cost of invention 95% of the time. Now your BPC would cost (134000+128700) * (2.38 + 1.57) = 1,038,000
This has little change on your current example, but becomes very relevant when exploring the use of decrytpors.
Finally, people need to realize that if they invent and manufacturing an item, it doesn't mean it will sell easy. Somethings sell very slowly, and something have lots of competition. |
Alice Loreley
Citadel Space Exploration Agency
83
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 19:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Alice Loreley wrote: Well you may be proud with your 10% profit from invention. I don't want to waste my time if the profit is below 40-50%. Oh, I see. You're a margin humper. Guess that pretty much tells us what the approximate mix of lazy and stupid is, here. Probably mine your own minerals 'cause they're free that way, too.
Heh, there is no reason for me to act as idiot anymore, because i see it clearly now - no one here knows about invention more than i am. I was hoping you will reveal to me something new in your try to humiliate another "lazy and stupid". Your arrogance was looking very potential. |
Aischa Montagne
Blut-Klauen-Clan
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 21:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Alice Loreley wrote:I spend some time to invent t2 cruise missiles, but seems i did something terrible wrong, because my loss in invention reach a 50% barrier. I'm bored, so... Taking Scourge Fury Cruise missiles as an example since you didn't specify. With minimum skills (Caldari Encryption, Electronic Engineering and Rocket Science at 1), invention chance is 42%. 1 Electronic Engineering data core, one Rocket Science data core needed. Jita sell prices: [... Killed numbers because they are irrelevant ...] You're welcome to check my maths, I don't think I missed anything, but it's always a possibility.
Your figures show me that you may be a good Producer, but you seem not to like to trade. But trade is the secret to make profit. The ability to produce is one possible requirement to increase value. I think your assumption are wrong. The Jita - price is not the Price the top sellers pay. At least I would not try to buy at Jita.
only my 2 cents, and this is a already mentioned Tipp in this discussion. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
651
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 21:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Aischa Montagne wrote:Your figures show me that you may be a good Producer, but you seem not to like to trade.
No, the figures show you that I took Jita sell prices because they were the easiest ones to get quickly and the ones least likely to result in argument about 'wasting time making stuff' or 'that's trading profit so doesn't count' or [insert other excuse from OP as to why numbers are wrong]
That's not how I actually do things.
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4248
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 22:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Oh, I see. You're a margin humper. Guess that pretty much tells us what the approximate mix of lazy and stupid is, here. Probably mine your own minerals 'cause they're free that way, too.
Alice Loreley wrote:By the way i build to many ships (including capitals) alone, just by my own hands without spending single isk to hear you sarcastic bullshit.
And is proud of it, to boot.
Alice Loreley wrote:but in fact t2 bpo is still more profitable than invention.
%Profit is about the least useful measure of profitability. And, if you insist on using it, you absolutely must include the costs incurred by tying up tens of billions of ISK into the BPO.
For invention and manufacturing: ISK/hr and ISK/billion invested are far better measures. And by either of those measures (especially ISK/billion invested), Invention comes out far ahead.
Aischa Montagne wrote:Your figures show me that you may be a good Producer, but you seem not to like to trade. But trade is the secret to make profit. The ability to produce is one possible requirement to increase value. I think your assumption are wrong. The Jita - price is not the Price the top sellers pay. At least I would not try to buy at Jita.
only my 2 cents, and this is a already mentioned Tipp in this discussion.
Using Jita sell order prices for raw materials and buy order prices is a pretty standard pessimistic model for use in calculating expected profit. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1513
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 22:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
1. I see Brewlar has a new alt... 2. Search function. Use it. 3. You really need to try to understand more about Industry before popping off about something you clearly know nothing about.
I'm not even going to try going into what either a) has been said already in this thread or b) what has already been said IN THE THOUSAND 'NERF T2 BPOs!' THREADS that have come before. CCP really needs to start banning accounts that intentionally recreate stupid, ignorant threads over and over again. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
India99
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
17
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 05:44:00 -
[42] - Quote
every once in a while some Brewlar Kuwakai makes a new thread about his T2 BPO crusade.
Let's discuss |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2134
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 06:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Alice Loreley wrote: Well you may be proud with your 10% profit from invention. I don't want to waste my time if the profit is below 40-50%. I generally aim for at least 10% profit, but will consider as low as 5% depending on the market conditions. However, some items sell for over 300% profit... until others catch on and enter the market. When I was building jump freighters, I averaged at least 7% (>500m profit), then the market collapsed and I got out of that.
I tend to aim for 50% to 200% profit on T1, but that is much higher volume and lower value. |
Uppsy Daisy
Perkone Caldari State
543
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 13:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote: I generally aim for at least 10% profit, but will consider as low as 5% depending on the market conditions. However, some items sell for over 300% profit... until others catch on and enter the market. When I was building jump freighters, I averaged at least 7% (>500m profit), then the market collapsed and I got out of that.
I tend to aim for 50% to 200% profit on T1, but that is much higher volume and lower value. There are far fewer items that qualify.
As others have said, % profit per item really does not matter.
What matters is these two ratios:
1) Profit per item ISK / time to make item 2) Sales volume per day of an item / Numbers of items produced by all manufacturers per day
Maximising the first means you maximise your profit per hour. Maximising the second means you stand a chance of selling it once you have made it.
It doesn't matter of your profit % is small, so long as you can make a lot of the item per hour, and sell them. |
Haulie Berry
1118
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 16:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Alice Loreley wrote:By the way i build to many ships (including capitals) alone, just by my own hands without spending single isk to hear you sarcastic bullshit. And is proud of it, to boot.
Ah... yeah, I missed that the first time around. MIMAFs always have a certain... smell... to them, though. |
Gargep Farrow
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 03:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
I am glad I found this tread before spouting off myself.
I just recently started dabbling in invention by working on items I personaly use. Getting serious is going to have to wait a few months til my next remap. (Why oh why did I get the invention bug when Perc/Wil mapped) I have had a few concerns myself about the effect of T2BPO's and if invention was worth working on any further due to certain advantages those lucky owners have. Now having read all the comments, those concerns are much diminished. I still have a lot to learn, but now I know it is worth learning as long as I take the time to research the market for what is best. |
Sheri Angela
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 05:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
T2 invention is certainly profitable. I build mainly hulls, but occasional rig from time to time. Average ROI investment is around 18% across my entire portfolio of products, but a lot fluctuation in margin by product over time. While I say ROI I honestly think in cashflow.
I've only run into a few products where T2 BPO owners could keep up with demand such as the Astarte or at least that's my assumption from the consistently low price point. |
Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate Hashashin Cartel
401
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 19:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
The new decryptors helped a lot. It was profitable before them as well for many items. However, I am for the removal of t2 bpo's.
It was a poorly implemented system and should be fixed. As for how to fix it in a way that's fair for everyone(current bpo holders), I don't know. I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
dexter xio
TURN LEFT
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 19:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
Alice Loreley wrote: Only one thing isn't good at all - rarity of t2 bpo's. Few lucky guys in the galaxy have them. Few people are able to rule the entire t2 market.
Oh, how blind you are.... Dexter xio - That cool guy |
Alice Loreley
Citadel Space Exploration Agency
83
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 20:55:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sheri Angela wrote:T2 invention is certainly profitable. I build mainly hulls, but occasional rig from time to time. Average ROI investment is around 18% across my entire portfolio of products, but a lot fluctuation in margin by product over time. While I say ROI I honestly think in cashflow.
I've only run into a few products where T2 BPO owners could keep up with demand such as the Astarte or at least that's my assumption from the consistently low price point.
Glad to hear some new details. What do you think about t2 drones? I'm sharp on Gallente invention and as i expect this course of further action will be more than logical. But i still have a little doubt about my success because my math is based on solid probability 42%. But it's no warranty for me to receive exactly the same number of t2 bpc after invention cycle. |
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Haulie Berry
1118
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 21:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:The new decryptors helped a lot. It was profitable before them as well for many items. However, I am for the removal of t2 bpo's.
It was a poorly implemented system and should be fixed. As for how to fix it in a way that's fair for everyone(current bpo holders), I don't know.
If CCP thought T2 BPOs were a problem, it would be quite easy to deal with them in a fashion that would upset nobody: Simply buy them up covertly and slowly, over time, with ISK confiscated from botters/RMT. |
Haulie Berry
1118
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 21:38:00 -
[52] - Quote
Alice Loreley wrote:Sheri Angela wrote:T2 invention is certainly profitable. I build mainly hulls, but occasional rig from time to time. Average ROI investment is around 18% across my entire portfolio of products, but a lot fluctuation in margin by product over time. While I say ROI I honestly think in cashflow.
I've only run into a few products where T2 BPO owners could keep up with demand such as the Astarte or at least that's my assumption from the consistently low price point. Glad to hear some new details. What do you think about t2 drones? I'm sharp on Gallente invention and as i expect this course of further action will be more than logical. But i still have a little doubt about my success because my math is based on solid probability 42%. But it's no warranty for me to receive exactly the same number of t2 bpc after invention cycle.
I... what?
So let's break this down: Even with the plethora of tools available that utterly trivialize determining if a certain item is a good choice for invention, you can't figure it out on your own?
And, yet, you're still butthurt about BPOs?
What was I saying about a mix of lazy/stupid earlier? |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4264
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 23:13:00 -
[53] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:It was a poorly implemented system and should be fixed. As for how to fix it in a way that's fair for everyone(current bpo holders), I don't know.
They did fix it. They introduced invention. This moved alliance income from T2 BPO ownership (at the time, moons weren't worth much because all the T2 BPOs in the game didn't come near to using up all the moon goo) to moon ownership (an income source that can be shot at), and allowed anyone to start making bucketloads of ISK making T2 items.
T2 BPO owners got their monopoly broken, and everyone else got to start producing T2 items, causing prices to plummet. So now we have cheap T2 goods, and a ton of people making a ton of money off of those goods. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
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Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate Hashashin Cartel
401
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:19:00 -
[54] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Rath Kelbore wrote:It was a poorly implemented system and should be fixed. As for how to fix it in a way that's fair for everyone(current bpo holders), I don't know. They did fix it. They introduced invention. This moved alliance income from T2 BPO ownership (at the time, moons weren't worth much because all the T2 BPOs in the game didn't come near to using up all the moon goo) to moon ownership (an income source that can be shot at), and allowed anyone to start making bucketloads of ISK making T2 items. T2 BPO owners got their monopoly broken, and everyone else got to start producing T2 items, causing prices to plummet. So now we have cheap T2 goods, and a ton of people making a ton of money off of those goods.
Good points. However, don't t2 bpo's have an advantage over invented bpc's? Why have remnants of an old system in place other than not wanting to be unfair to people that have purchased or at one point won valuable t2 bpo's? Maybe that's enough reason to keep them in place. It just seems it serves no purpose to have them.
I wasn't around before invention and don't own any t2 bpo's. So my point of view on the subject is admittedly limited. I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4265
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:Good points. However, don't t2 bpo's have an advantage over invented bpc's? Why have remnants of an old system in place other than not wanting to be unfair to people that have purchased or at one point won valuable t2 bpo's? Maybe that's enough reason to keep them in place. It just seems it serves no purpose to have them.
I wasn't around before invention and don't own any t2 bpo's. So my point of view on the subject is admittedly limited.
T2 BPOs can make a small volume of one specific good at a low marginal cost with astronomical capital requirements. Invention can make a large volume of many varied goods at a higher marginal cost with little capital requirements.
BPOs have some advantages, Invention has many advantages.
Why not remove the BPOs? Because nobody is hurt by their continued existence, so there's no reason to arbitrarily punish people for making certain legitimate investments. Not confiscating legitimately acquired goods is the default position; you need a strong reason to confiscate legitimately acquired goods from people. "Why not?" is not a strong reason to do something.
I wasn't around before invention, and I don't own any BPOs either. But the information on the state of the market pre-invention is readily available. Not to mention that divining that state is trivial. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
Haulie Berry
1118
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 02:50:00 -
[56] - Quote
Rath Kelbore wrote:
Good points. However, don't t2 bpo's have an advantage over invented bpc's?
They have a HUGE advantage, but only if you're bad at math/finance/economics and don't know what "opportunity cost" is. The capital value of a T2 BPO makes them extremely impractical for anyone who doesn't already have a massive amount of money. Even if you acquired a BPO for "Free" via theft/scamming/GM hax/etc., you would almost certainly be better off selling it at market value and using the money for investments with better return.
If you're convinced that they have a significant advantage, however, there's something you can do about it: Go buy some T2 BPOs.
Quote:Why have remnants of an old system in place other than not wanting to be unfair to people that have purchased or at one point won valuable t2 bpo's? Maybe that's enough reason to keep them in place. It just seems it serves no purpose to have them.
Because destroying trillions in asset value for no good gameplay reason would be extremely bad business. CCP quite cheerfully changes or removes things that are causing a problem all the time, and that's important for the welfare of the game. If, however, things that are factually known to not be problematic were to suddenly be destroyed merely to salve the butthurt of jealous newbs who can't do math? That would be a catastrophe.
"I don't like it" isn't a compelling reason for taking things away from other people. |
Alice Loreley
Citadel Space Exploration Agency
83
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 09:05:00 -
[57] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Alice Loreley wrote:Sheri Angela wrote:T2 invention is certainly profitable. I build mainly hulls, but occasional rig from time to time. Average ROI investment is around 18% across my entire portfolio of products, but a lot fluctuation in margin by product over time. While I say ROI I honestly think in cashflow.
I've only run into a few products where T2 BPO owners could keep up with demand such as the Astarte or at least that's my assumption from the consistently low price point. Glad to hear some new details. What do you think about t2 drones? I'm sharp on Gallente invention and as i expect this course of further action will be more than logical. But i still have a little doubt about my success because my math is based on solid probability 42%. But it's no warranty for me to receive exactly the same number of t2 bpc after invention cycle. I... what? So let's break this down: Even with the plethora of tools available that utterly trivialize determining if a certain item is a good choice for invention, you can't figure it out on your own? And, yet, you're still butthurt about BPOs? What was I saying about a mix of lazy/stupid earlier?
Oh dear, are you still here? I was quite sure i've explained myself earlier. Are you lazy to read posts or stupid to understand what does they mean? Don't waste your time, sweet butthurt is somewhere else, waiting for you to deliver some pleasant times.
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4265
|
Posted - 2013.10.13 09:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
Alice Loreley wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:Alice Loreley wrote:Sheri Angela wrote:T2 invention is certainly profitable. I build mainly hulls, but occasional rig from time to time. Average ROI investment is around 18% across my entire portfolio of products, but a lot fluctuation in margin by product over time. While I say ROI I honestly think in cashflow.
I've only run into a few products where T2 BPO owners could keep up with demand such as the Astarte or at least that's my assumption from the consistently low price point. Glad to hear some new details. What do you think about t2 drones? I'm sharp on Gallente invention and as i expect this course of further action will be more than logical. But i still have a little doubt about my success because my math is based on solid probability 42%. But it's no warranty for me to receive exactly the same number of t2 bpc after invention cycle. I... what? So let's break this down: Even with the plethora of tools available that utterly trivialize determining if a certain item is a good choice for invention, you can't figure it out on your own? And, yet, you're still butthurt about BPOs? What was I saying about a mix of lazy/stupid earlier? Oh dear, are you still here? I was quite sure i've explained myself earlier. Are you lazy to read posts or stupid to understand what does they mean? Don't waste your time, sweet butthurt is somewhere else, waiting for you to deliver some pleasant times.
T2 drones are better than T1 drones, but what is a conversation about the relative combat efficacy of different drones doing in your thread about how you think that Timmy shouldn't have a shiny toy if you don't get the same thing? "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
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Gargep Farrow
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2013.10.13 10:04:00 -
[59] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Rath Kelbore wrote:Good points. However, don't t2 bpo's have an advantage over invented bpc's? Why have remnants of an old system in place other than not wanting to be unfair to people that have purchased or at one point won valuable t2 bpo's? Maybe that's enough reason to keep them in place. It just seems it serves no purpose to have them.
I wasn't around before invention and don't own any t2 bpo's. So my point of view on the subject is admittedly limited. T2 BPOs can make a small volume of one specific good at a low marginal cost with astronomical capital requirements. Invention can make a large volume of many varied goods at a higher marginal cost with little capital requirements. BPOs have some advantages, Invention has many advantages. Why not remove the BPOs? Because nobody is hurt by their continued existence, so there's no reason to arbitrarily punish people for making certain legitimate investments. Not confiscating legitimately acquired goods is the default position; you need a strong reason to confiscate legitimately acquired goods from people. "Why not?" is not a strong reason to do something. I wasn't around before invention, and I don't own any BPOs either. But the information on the state of the market pre-invention is readily available. Not to mention that divining that state is trivial. One area I quickly noticed that BPO's have a good advantage is in making some BPCs. Take mining crystals for example. I can make a ten run copy, (leaving out decryptors) whereas a BPO owner can make a 100 run one. Fortunately that advantage drops to almost nothing with things like ships. So there are certain BPC markets I will avoid, not a big deal. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
657
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Posted - 2013.10.13 11:13:00 -
[60] - Quote
Gargep Farrow wrote:One area I quickly noticed that BPO's have a good advantage is in making some BPCs. Take mining crystals for example. I can make a ten run copy, (leaving out decryptors) whereas a BPO owner can make a 100 run one.
However those copies take longer to make than the items themselves. T2 Mining crystal BPO takes (at PE 0) a minute and a half to manufacture a single item and 5 minutes to make a 1-run copy. So that 100-run Veldspar Mining Crystal II BPC took 8.3 hours to create, in that time the BPO owner could instead have manufactured over 300 crystals
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