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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1596
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Posted - 2013.10.06 22:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
Malc since that post hasn't got much to do with the blog I'll reply elsewhere |
dexington
BodyBag Industries
816
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Posted - 2013.10.06 22:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Malcanis wrote:Seriously though, the Ishscorps were repurposed as community awards. They've been given out as a community award. That's OK. The 'dumb' here was the timing and the not being transparent about it rather than the community award itself. That level of dumb merits a and maybe a :CCP: but this aint no T20 or $1000 Jeans class event. The Derpometer needle barely twitched on this one. And for all those people jumping on Jester for pointing this out, remember he's also the one that got us the warp speed changes that are going to make a massive difference to the way the game is actually played and will continue to do so until long after this teacup-based storm has been utterly forgotten (ie: Next month) You don't see the huge ISK value as an issue? I think things such as free gametime are fine rewards to give to community types, but stuff worth a lot of ISK isn't. Also, I feel the main issue with the Jester blog is the dismissal of people's concerns. I mean, yeah, the shitstorm's a bit much at the moment, and some people may indeed be upset because they're not getting scorps themselves, but neither of those is a reason to say the concern of the community is not valid. Ripard's post was a fallacy and deserving of criticism, despite other contributions he's made to CSM No I don't see the "huge" ISK value as much of an issue. For the following reasons: 1) The Somer people have more ISK than they know what to do with. The ISK value of this award is meaningless to them. 2) And that ISK value is pretty hypothetical. And it's based purely on the rarity of the Ishscorps given out so far. Note that so far. CCP have said outright that they've given these out before and they're going to be given out again. The mere fact of giving out another 30 has significantly reduced the rarity of these ships. In fact I think that giving gametime to Somer would be much less appropriate than the Ishscorps. That really would be a straight up money gift, rather than what amounts to a set of harmless souveniers.
why then all the secrecy? I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Mabelaba
Bella Donna Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2013.10.06 22:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
The CSM is nothing but a CCP marketing tool. Think that's obvious by now. |
Mabelaba
Bella Donna Enterprises
0
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Posted - 2013.10.06 22:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
Malcanis wrote: And for all those people jumping on Jester for pointing this out, remember he's also the one that got us the warp speed changes that are going to make a massive difference to the way the game is actually played and will continue to do so until long after this teacup-based storm has been utterly forgotten (ie: Next month)
Yeah like we have forgotten the T20 - T2 BPO scandal ... |
Charlie Firpol
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
7
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Posted - 2013.10.06 22:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
dexington wrote:Malcanis wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Malcanis wrote:Seriously though, the Ishscorps were repurposed as community awards. They've been given out as a community award. That's OK. The 'dumb' here was the timing and the not being transparent about it rather than the community award itself. That level of dumb merits a and maybe a :CCP: but this aint no T20 or $1000 Jeans class event. The Derpometer needle barely twitched on this one. And for all those people jumping on Jester for pointing this out, remember he's also the one that got us the warp speed changes that are going to make a massive difference to the way the game is actually played and will continue to do so until long after this teacup-based storm has been utterly forgotten (ie: Next month) You don't see the huge ISK value as an issue? I think things such as free gametime are fine rewards to give to community types, but stuff worth a lot of ISK isn't. Also, I feel the main issue with the Jester blog is the dismissal of people's concerns. I mean, yeah, the shitstorm's a bit much at the moment, and some people may indeed be upset because they're not getting scorps themselves, but neither of those is a reason to say the concern of the community is not valid. Ripard's post was a fallacy and deserving of criticism, despite other contributions he's made to CSM No I don't see the "huge" ISK value as much of an issue. For the following reasons: 1) The Somer people have more ISK than they know what to do with. The ISK value of this award is meaningless to them. 2) And that ISK value is pretty hypothetical. And it's based purely on the rarity of the Ishscorps given out so far. Note that so far. CCP have said outright that they've given these out before and they're going to be given out again. The mere fact of giving out another 30 has significantly reduced the rarity of these ships. In fact I think that giving gametime to Somer would be much less appropriate than the Ishscorps. That really would be a straight up money gift, rather than what amounts to a set of harmless souveniers. why then all the secrecy?
So you dont get jealous.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11987
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Posted - 2013.10.06 22:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
dexington wrote:Malcanis wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Malcanis wrote:Seriously though, the Ishscorps were repurposed as community awards. They've been given out as a community award. That's OK. The 'dumb' here was the timing and the not being transparent about it rather than the community award itself. That level of dumb merits a and maybe a :CCP: but this aint no T20 or $1000 Jeans class event. The Derpometer needle barely twitched on this one. And for all those people jumping on Jester for pointing this out, remember he's also the one that got us the warp speed changes that are going to make a massive difference to the way the game is actually played and will continue to do so until long after this teacup-based storm has been utterly forgotten (ie: Next month) You don't see the huge ISK value as an issue? I think things such as free gametime are fine rewards to give to community types, but stuff worth a lot of ISK isn't. Also, I feel the main issue with the Jester blog is the dismissal of people's concerns. I mean, yeah, the shitstorm's a bit much at the moment, and some people may indeed be upset because they're not getting scorps themselves, but neither of those is a reason to say the concern of the community is not valid. Ripard's post was a fallacy and deserving of criticism, despite other contributions he's made to CSM No I don't see the "huge" ISK value as much of an issue. For the following reasons: 1) The Somer people have more ISK than they know what to do with. The ISK value of this award is meaningless to them. 2) And that ISK value is pretty hypothetical. And it's based purely on the rarity of the Ishscorps given out so far. Note that so far. CCP have said outright that they've given these out before and they're going to be given out again. The mere fact of giving out another 30 has significantly reduced the rarity of these ships. In fact I think that giving gametime to Somer would be much less appropriate than the Ishscorps. That really would be a straight up money gift, rather than what amounts to a set of harmless souveniers. why then all the secrecy?
I don't know. I said I thought the lack of transparency was not the best way. (see bolded)
1 Kings 12:11
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11987
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Posted - 2013.10.06 22:52:00 -
[37] - Quote
Mabelaba wrote:Malcanis wrote: And for all those people jumping on Jester for pointing this out, remember he's also the one that got us the warp speed changes that are going to make a massive difference to the way the game is actually played and will continue to do so until long after this teacup-based storm has been utterly forgotten (ie: Next month)
Yeah like we have forgotten the T20 - T2 BPO scandal ...
That actually was a scandal. It was scandalous. This is merely people making hay out of a legit, generous but somewhat clumsily executed gesture.
1 Kings 12:11
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11987
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Posted - 2013.10.06 22:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
Xtreem wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Xtreem wrote:If I was CSM I would be PISSED over the lack of communications from CCP over all this, any reasonable company that got called on the big givaway would have come clean and "oh actually we gave away 30 of them in Aug"
But they did not, CSM try their best but with CCP treating them as a joke means they can't be effective no matter how honest their intent. Ishokone Scorpions were nothing to do with the 'big giveaway' so why would they come up. They already announced a while back they were being used as community give aways, and as has been pointed out they aren't the only group that has gotten them either. Am I entirely happy with this news. Of course not. But at the same time, this isn't a scandal of any worthy note. It's TMC trying to make news Fox style. Playing only just over a year, I would not expect you to understand how unique ships are handled in game (at least pre 2013, I admit it seems CCP has changed their view)
The Ishscorps aren't 'uniques'.
1 Kings 12:11
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Kate stark
326
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Posted - 2013.10.06 22:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Most of them are NDA'd, alas. Seriously though, the Ishscorps were repurposed as community awards. They've been given out as a community award. That's OK. The 'dumb' here was the timing and the not being transparent about it rather than the community award itself. That level of dumb merits a and maybe a :CCP: but this aint no T20 or $1000 Jeans class event. The Derpometer needle barely twitched on this one. And for all those people jumping on Jester for pointing this out, remember he's also the one that got us the warp speed changes that are going to make a massive difference to the way the game is actually played and will continue to do so until long after this teacup-based storm has been utterly forgotten (ie: Next month)
NDA? oh, c'mon malc... i expected more of you than that.
and i agree the issue, isolated and on it's own, is rather small time. however surely if we let this slide that gives ccp the green light to continue to award things to whoever they want without a single mention of it leading to some potentially hideous errors that could actually damage the game?
surely it's better to kick up a bit of fuss now to prevent something worse down the line? Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or i's account, if you're reading this. |
KuroVolt
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
876
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Posted - 2013.10.06 22:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
People are seriously over reacting.
I swear this is the kind of thing that gets parodied in a south park episode.
Where a little thing gets completely blown up because angry mobs will be angry mobs. BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16839
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Posted - 2013.10.06 22:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:That actually was a scandal. It was scandalous. This is merely people making hay out of a legit, generous but somewhat clumsily executed gesture. I don't really buy that any more.
All the excuses given for this idiocy are applicable to T20 as wellGǪ except that the T20 hand-out was a lot less generous than this one. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Malcolm Shinhwa
Bad Touches
396
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Posted - 2013.10.06 23:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
Seems like a pretty broad brush to paint all of the CSM with. They've stood up for ToSgate and the first incarnation of Somergate. Riptard was out of line tarring the complainers as jealous. All of the "jealousy" including my signature isn't jealousy at all, but commentary on how wrong it is for God to come down and gift an in-game corp that the rest of us compete against with billions of isk in a competitive sandbox game.
The main farsical CSM comments I've seen make the claim that these ships only have a value because the players assign them a value. That is completely true of the scorps. Its also completely true of every other item on the markets in the sandbox. So this is a non-point that lends nothing to the argument. Right now employees of Somer can get billions for the ships. If I were them, I'd sell now btw.
But overall the CSM members who have spoken publicly about any of these scandals have been thoughtful and more supportive of the community and their concerns than of CCP. Hey CCP, please slush my fund like you did for SOMER Blink. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Compulsory Euthanasia
911
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 23:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
What other GM-player collusion is taking place?
There may be no other collusion and this is just a one-off error. Or there may be a lot.
We don't know, and the lack of transparency casts doubt on the integrity of the game. Is there GM-player collusion in the Alliance Tournaments? In big alliance fleet fights? In other market transactions? If you asked me before this I'd have said 'no, CCP has integrity'. I'm less certain of that answer now. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. Say NO to GM-player collusion - Boycott SOMER Blink |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
85
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Posted - 2013.10.07 01:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
How dare CCP not order all their employees to return to work at the weekend to answer this very important matter of some very important GOLD SPACESHIPS! .
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SpoonRECKLESS
Bumper R Us
58
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Posted - 2013.10.07 02:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
Can you guys go back to whining about Goons please. Tis stuff is boring to read. Blue
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Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
885
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 02:03:00 -
[46] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:How dare CCP not order all their employees to return to work at the weekend to answer this very important matter of some very important GOLD SPACESHIPS!
Well, at least (and happily) CCP is at work / working normally.
The US government, despite having real spaceships... not so much. Again. [ cue "ironic" soundtrack ]
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Maximilian Akora
It's just business.
33
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Posted - 2013.10.07 02:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sorry Malc but that's the easy way out.
The notion that because "somer has too much money anyway" it somehow nullifies the rather grand gift, and not the first one either, is BS. BOB was rich enough anyway, they didn't NEED those BPO but, you know, it's kinda nice. There is no reason what so ever for DEVS to magically give isk or items to whatever party in this game unless it's done in an open and understandable manner.
Somer is a business, it's not a charity thing that would benefit from a bit of goodwill backing by CCP. The amount of isk/goodies is also completely out of whack whichever way you look at it and there CERTAINLY can't be any valid reasoning for why this was done in secrecy.
There's three options;
- that Scorp will be introduced en masse in the next 1-2 months for low cost on the NEX store so the scarcity value will be pretty much meaningless and it's just all advertising but in the usual "we fcked it up" CCP style
- CCP has a vested interest in Somer (duh) but "kinda forgets" favourtism doesn't work too well in a sandbox and tends to mess things up, we've gone to the jita monument for less
- a new T20 has arrived
So unless it's option number one I don't understand your stance on this all.
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Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
183
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 02:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
KuroVolt wrote:People are seriously over reacting
The counterpoints that have been put forth thus far:
1. It's no big deal because SOMER is rich anyways. But what if something like this were gifted to a less benevolent entity like goons? The community outrage would be endless complete with cries of favoritism/ RMT and Devswarm. Should CCP gift supers to PL because it's NBD they got tons anyways?
2. Community rewards/awards. They are plenty of 'fluff' or unique RP items in game that don't have the massive isk value of these rare ships.
Who decides who contributes to the greater good of the community? What are the considerations here? Some people would argue that gambling is a serious addiction that has destroyed many lives and it would be true.
Contests and ingame events are one thing but for someone at CCP to arbitrarily say: "Hey lets give these guys something because x.." Looks shady, compounded by the behavior by SOMER himself/herself. |
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.10.07 03:06:00 -
[49] - Quote
CSM members,
Who do you actually represent? CCP or the Eve community?
I don't know how out of touch some "representatives" can be.
It doesn't matter how large or small CCP's mistake might be, ( although IMHO I beleive this is very much a large issue ), CCP has really messed up, AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a major issue and the Eve community deserves not only an answer to this issue but also a solution. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
2083
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 03:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
Actually, we voted Ripard to use his best judgement in representing us. OK, his best judgement disagrees with a number of folks. Simple - Don't vote for him next time.
Problem solved. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4729
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 03:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:Who decides who contributes to the greater good of the community? What are the considerations here? Some people would argue that gambling is a serious addiction that has destroyed many lives and it would be true. CCP says they're good productive people in eve online There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 04:21:00 -
[52] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Leigh Akiga wrote:Who decides who contributes to the greater good of the community? What are the considerations here? Some people would argue that gambling is a serious addiction that has destroyed many lives and it would be true. CCP says they're good productive people in eve online
Soo gambling = good, noble, praiseworthy
Ganking/scamming = bad
In actuality gambling and micro-lotteries are a bigger scam than the ones the EVE community frowns upon because they prey upon the darkest side of human nature while being disguised as harmless entertainment.
For every 10 winners 1,000 people lost but the House always wins. I'm curious who decided that this out of game website was worthy entertainment, yet we cannot share adult humour/websites with our fleetmates or in local anymore or we'll get banned |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations Self Sabatoge
1317
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Posted - 2013.10.07 04:36:00 -
[53] - Quote
They were duly elected. if you wish a new CSM, we will all get to vote again. I hope Mynnna sticks around! See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2979
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 04:40:00 -
[54] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:This is a Ripard Teg callout thread: We voted for you to talk sense into CCP, let them know the players thoughts and feeings about development and keep them from doing dumb things. Not to white knight the dumbest thing they have done since Incarna.
Translation: how dare an elected representative have an opinion different from mine!
Why don't you just vote for someone else next time? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4732
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 05:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Leigh Akiga wrote:Who decides who contributes to the greater good of the community? What are the considerations here? Some people would argue that gambling is a serious addiction that has destroyed many lives and it would be true. CCP says they're good productive people in eve online Soo gambling = good, noble, praiseworthy Ganking/scamming = bad This is what we have been told, albeit indirectly by this, and the tos clarifications.
So? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Anomaly One
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 05:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
The Mittani for CSM! |
Anomaly One
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
31
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 05:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
SpoonRECKLESS wrote:Can you guys go back to whining about Goons please. Tis stuff is boring to read.
I got your back, check out my new thread. |
Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
187
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 05:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Leigh Akiga wrote:This is a Ripard Teg callout thread: We voted for you to talk sense into CCP, let them know the players thoughts and feeings about development and keep them from doing dumb things. Not to white knight the dumbest thing they have done since Incarna. Translation: how dare an elected representative have an opinion different from mine! Why don't you just vote for someone else next time?
If it wasnt a controversial position he wouldnt have needed to defend it on his media of choice.
Altogether it reeks of bias in light of the sweetheart deals he and his alliance get because of SCL, which was also kept on the down low and hush-hush.
Why is that? Why all this under the table stuff if everything is kosher and above board? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4733
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 06:04:00 -
[59] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Leigh Akiga wrote:This is a Ripard Teg callout thread: We voted for you to talk sense into CCP, let them know the players thoughts and feeings about development and keep them from doing dumb things. Not to white knight the dumbest thing they have done since Incarna. Translation: how dare an elected representative have an opinion different from mine! Why don't you just vote for someone else next time? If it wasnt a controversial position he wouldnt have needed to defend it on his media of choice. Altogether it reeks of bias in light of the sweetheart deals he and his alliance get because of SCL, which was also kept on the down low and hush-hush. Why is that? Why all this under the table stuff if everything is kosher and above board? It's 100% kosher, somer is 100% honest
ccp would never lie to you when they say it's not a big issue There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
469
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 06:17:00 -
[60] - Quote
IF we get confirmation that CCP have only ever given rare and unique ships to SOMER, either as thank yous or for giveaways (And, we know the second case is not unique to SOMER), then Ripard might have white knighted incorrectly.
As it stands, we are waiting for CCP to make a statement, but, akin to much yelling IRL, the facts and a good story are never good friends. |
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