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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Laserak
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
100
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Posted - 2013.10.07 06:20:00 -
[61] - Quote
Where there's smoke, there's fire ~Sun Tzu
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Anomaly One
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
33
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Posted - 2013.10.07 06:30:00 -
[62] - Quote
When there's stink, I farted - Me |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4734
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 06:30:00 -
[63] - Quote
Rhivre wrote:IF we get confirmation that CCP have only ever given rare and unique ships to SOMER, either as thank yous or for giveaways (And, we know the second case is not unique to SOMER), then Ripard might have white knighted incorrectly.
As it stands, we are waiting for CCP to make a statement, but, akin to much yelling IRL, the facts and a good story are never good friends. ccp has a history of hey have a giveaway
this makes it perfectly fine There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
5981
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Posted - 2013.10.07 06:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
So much for CSM8 [url]http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpoY8CiN89R3ThYDf_D8M3w/videos[/url] Latest video: August 25, 2013 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4734
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 06:34:00 -
[65] - Quote
welped a csm, was this a reimbursable PR op? There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Prince Kobol
991
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 06:56:00 -
[66] - Quote
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:A CSM member is supposed to represent his voters and not act on his own opinions.
I support this thread.
Kind off.
The CSM are still human beings with their own mind and own opinions.
I have much more respect for a CSM member who says what they truly thinks then just says what they think will make them more popular, regardless of whether I agree with them or not.
Whilst I might not totally agree with what Ripard has said, I actually have more respect for him being truthful then jumping on the bandwagon trying to get brownie points.
Unless of course you want people on CSM who say stuff in public to get brownie points and then do the complete opposite when in front of CCP.
I am sure some CSM members will come out and say how bad CCP have been and its a total disgrace and everybody will go "yeah you see this person gets, our hero"
In reality they will then most likely say the total opposite when sitting in front of CCP. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11994
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 07:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Malcanis wrote:That actually was a scandal. It was scandalous. This is merely people making hay out of a legit, generous but somewhat clumsily executed gesture. I don't really buy that any more. All the excuses given for this idiocy are applicable to T20 as wellGǪ except that the T20 hand-out was a lot less generous than this one.
On the one hand an endless source of a ship which had at the time a strictly limited rate of supply (since they could only be made from BPOs), and a ship that was best in class and that has a significant effect on actual fights
On the other hand a finite number of hangar ornaments.
Yes... "less generous". OK.
What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?
Every previous precedent says they do.
1 Kings 12:11
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Prince Kobol
991
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Posted - 2013.10.07 07:02:00 -
[68] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tippia wrote:Malcanis wrote:That actually was a scandal. It was scandalous. This is merely people making hay out of a legit, generous but somewhat clumsily executed gesture. I don't really buy that any more. All the excuses given for this idiocy are applicable to T20 as wellGǪ except that the T20 hand-out was a lot less generous than this one. On the one hand an endless source of a ship which had at the time a strictly limited rate of supply (since they could only be made from BPOs), and a ship that was best in class and that has a significant effect on actual fights On the other hand a finite number of hangar ornaments. Yes... "less generous". OK. What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions? Every previous precedent says they do.
Quick Everybody get your torches and Pitch Forks.. TRAITOR !!!!!!
(This is sarcasm, I know some people get confused ) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11994
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 07:03:00 -
[69] - Quote
Deka Ekato wrote:CSM members,
Who do you actually represent? CCP or the Eve community?
I don't know how out of touch some "representatives" can be.
It doesn't matter how large or small CCP's mistake might be, ( although IMHO I beleive this is very much a large issue ), CCP has really messed up, AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a major issue and the Eve community deserves not only an answer to this issue but also a solution.
Should I represent the part of the community that wants non-consensual PvP removed from hi-sec, or the part that wants it defended?
As for "out of touch", if 499,999 EVE players want CCP told that 1+1=3 and I know that 1+1=2, I'm going to tell CCP that the answer is '2'. I don't care tuppence for popularity, either with CCP or with the playerbase.
1 Kings 12:11
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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1094
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Posted - 2013.10.07 07:18:00 -
[70] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?
It boils down to: why does CCP think it's ok to hand out billions of isk to a select few and does so in secrecy.
We're not talking about 2 years up ahead when almost everybody has that gifted ship making it by then far less worth then it was at the moment of hand out. We're talking about the here and now, not if when then. |
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Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo Bitten.
346
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Posted - 2013.10.07 07:20:00 -
[71] - Quote
For those that feel left out about the IshScorps...
Go buy a normal Scorp. They're better. ~Boredom Breeds Direction~ |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
5985
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 07:25:00 -
[72] - Quote
Of course CCP has the right to do X with their game. That's pretty much a given. Nobody's saying CCP doesn't have the right to hand out rare ships. Arguing against that line is ridiculous.
Just because you have the right to do something, does not however mean that you're justified in doing so. That's the contention here. I would have thought that a CSM member would understand the distinction, but it seems only a few do. -áFavoritism is good - CCP 2013 |
Bi-Mi Lansatha
RillaCorp The Kadeshi
208
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 07:31:00 -
[73] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:...I don't know. I said I thought the lack of transparency was not the best way. (see bolded)... The lack of transparency was the worst possible way... it screams that even CCP thought they were doing something 'shady' and didn't want the community to know about it. |
Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 07:38:00 -
[74] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tippia wrote:Malcanis wrote:That actually was a scandal. It was scandalous. This is merely people making hay out of a legit, generous but somewhat clumsily executed gesture. I don't really buy that any more. All the excuses given for this idiocy are applicable to T20 as wellGǪ except that the T20 hand-out was a lot less generous than this one. On the one hand an endless source of a ship which had at the time a strictly limited rate of supply (since they could only be made from BPOs), and a ship that was best in class and that has a significant effect on actual fights On the other hand a finite number of hangar ornaments. Yes... "less generous". OK. What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions? Every previous precedent says they do.
Malcanis,
CCP might have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions, but what CCP has done is blatant favouritism towards, of all things, a for profit gambling site. It's this favouritism which is absolutely wrong. Why? Because it destroys the sandbox that Eve is suppose to be. Just because Somer is a means of cash revenue for CCP, doesn't justify CCP to shower Somer with gifts. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Compulsory Euthanasia
919
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 07:42:00 -
[75] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Of course CCP has the right to do X with their game. That's pretty much a given. Nobody's saying CCP doesn't have the right to hand out rare ships. Arguing against that line is ridiculous.
Just because you have the right to do something, does not however mean that you're justified in doing so. That's the contention here. I would have thought that a CSM member would understand the distinction, but it seems only a few do.
Exactly this.
A line needs to be drawn.
For me, a public, transparent giveaway is acceptable as long as it is not economy warping and does not convey a large lasting advantage in PVP. Note the word 'acceptable', not 'fine'.
"Enter this Alliance Tournament, follow these rules, and possibly win these prizes" or "Nominate a fansite for a prize - CCP's ten favorites will get a prize" are fine by me.
But giving out half a trillion ISK (enough to fund small alliance wars) is on the lower threshold of economy warping, and there was nothing public or transparent about this, just a GM giving their mates a leg up.
It's not as serious as the T2 BPO GM-player collusion which was economy warping, conveyed a large, lasting PVP advantage and was as far from public and transparent as you can get, but the question must be asked - if GMs were caught on this one, how many times have they colluded with players and not been caught? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. Say NO to GM-player collusion - Boycott SOMER Blink |
Ammzi
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1562
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 07:43:00 -
[76] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
No I don't see the "huge" ISK value as much of an issue. For the following reasons:
1) The Somer people have more ISK than they know what to do with. The ISK value of this award is meaningless to them.
2) And that ISK value is pretty hypothetical. And it's based purely on the rarity of the Ishscorps given out so far. Note that so far. CCP have said outright that they've given these out before and they're going to be given out again. The mere fact of giving out another 30 has significantly reduced the rarity of these ships.
In fact I think that giving gametime to Somer would be much less appropriate than the Ishscorps. That really would be a straight up money gift, rather than what amounts to a set of harmless souveniers.
It doesn't MATTER about the rarity of the ship. I could tie you up in real life and hostage you, but if noone would pay anything for you it doesn't mean your life is worthless, nor does it mean I should just give it away to anyone. If CCP wants to give away "community awards" then they should:
#1 Be consistent in their give aways (not JUST Somer, but plentiful of other people) #2 Be OPEN and PUBLIC about their give aways #3 Give away items that truly are worthless ingame (no effect, only vanity), but can be shown to other people, e.g. clothes, skin coloring of pods, etc. etc.
We don't even know what else has been given away under the rug, because this is one of the few cases like T20. It was given and it was leaked and uproar happened. And I find it ironic that the CSM were created exactly due to a rogue dev giving away items with high value (don't make me remind me of your life again), and the exact thing has happened here. Except the rogue dev is now the entirety of the CCP and most likely the community team. So much for CSM, badrw. CCP Navagiator AKA CCP T20 |
Cierra Royce
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 07:47:00 -
[77] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Tippia wrote:Malcanis wrote:That actually was a scandal. It was scandalous. This is merely people making hay out of a legit, generous but somewhat clumsily executed gesture. I don't really buy that any more. All the excuses given for this idiocy are applicable to T20 as wellGǪ except that the T20 hand-out was a lot less generous than this one. On the one hand an endless source of a ship which had at the time a strictly limited rate of supply (since they could only be made from BPOs), and a ship that was best in class and that has a significant effect on actual fights On the other hand a finite number of hangar ornaments. Yes... "less generous". OK. What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions? Every previous precedent says they do.
In this case CCP first secretly gifted Somer 30 rare ships 'under the table' and then just over a month later with no real public explanation openly stated they intend on handing into their control a trillion or so more of extremely rare ships.
Let's say this had gone uncontended and following the 'giveaway' CCP rewarded Somer with another batch of scorpions as a reward for all going so well, and then began plans for the next joint lottery.
Limited supply in each case yes, but essentially unlimited supply on an instalment plan. |
Le Petite More
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
36
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Posted - 2013.10.07 07:53:00 -
[78] - Quote
He is wrong and knowing CCP talks to players like him explains how they made such a big mistake.
Most posters don't want stuff, that is sarcasm. A form of communication everyone trying to protect Somer seems to be incapable of understanding. Here is why this is wrong:
A: Gifts given to a for profit site with competitors is CCP showing blatant favoritism
B: This is on top of them vouching for the trustworthiness of an organization in EVE which is a huge boost to their profits, undeserved, and against CCP's own EULA.
C: CCP Navigator use to work for blink and has now twice favored blink with rare bonus items over every other entity in the game with no transparency which makes people suspicious.
D: His only response to this criticism was to promote their free blinks on the forums which aren't actually free.
E: CCP Falcon said CCP would not support any event that was controlled by players if everyone in EVE could not participate. Blink bans players for arbitrary reasons and yet CCP gave them items to raffle off. They couldn't even keep this story straight for a month.
F: The very players elected to stop CCP from playing favorites and spawning ingame items for people is now defending them. If there was any good reason to provide Somer with all these free items CCP would have released their guide to who gets free stuff. There isn't because blink only got the stuff due to favoritism.
G: They have now twice been given billions, maybe trillions of isk in a row for "community service." Has anybody else gotten anything in the interim? No because CCP doesn't care about community service.
He and the rest of the CSM are starting to look like mushrooms; kept in the dark and fed bull****. Though thank you to the ones who stood up against this on twitter. |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
434
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 07:56:00 -
[79] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Kate stark wrote:Malcanis wrote:Leigh Akiga wrote:This is a Ripard Teg callout thread: We voted for you to talk sense into CCP, let them know the players thoughts and feeings about development and keep them from doing dumb things. Not to white knight the dumbest thing they have done since Incarna. Come on now, this is barely the 10th dumbest thing since Incarna. Actually I don't think it's even in the top 10. what are the top 10, then? not questioning your judgement, i just want something to read until the sports comes on later. Most of them are NDA'd, alas. Seriously though, the Ishscorps were repurposed as community awards. They've been given out as a community award. That's OK. The 'dumb' here was the timing and the not being transparent about it rather than the community award itself. That level of dumb merits a and maybe a :CCP: but this aint no T20 or $1000 Jeans class event. The Derpometer needle barely twitched on this one. And for all those people jumping on Jester for pointing this out, remember he's also the one that got us the warp speed changes that are going to make a massive difference to the way the game is actually played and will continue to do so until long after this teacup-based storm has been utterly forgotten (ie: Next month)
Yeah, you just wait until the speed changes hits - there's gonna be a storm like non-other.
"Most" is not all.. Put up or shut up.
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
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KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
434
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 07:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Actually, we voted Ripard to use his best judgement in representing us. OK, his best judgement disagrees with a number of folks. Simple - Don't vote for him next time.
Problem solved.
Waiting for the next voting round seems sort of distant. Recall?
CCP Punkturis-á "I want to get in on the goodposter circle jerk!"
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Frying Doom
2559
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Posted - 2013.10.07 08:22:00 -
[81] - Quote
Why is it for the last few years every time CCP screws up, all you ever see is the CSM saying they disapprove of CCPs actions followed by the CSM actively defending CCP?
I think in the next election we really need a "Disband the CSM" Button or at least a "None of the Above Button", so we can actually see how many people do not want the CSM, unlike the last election where these were strangely missing.
Hard to say you represent the players, if you don't know if more players would be happier without the CSM, than with it. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11997
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 08:41:00 -
[82] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Malcanis wrote:What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?
It boils down to: why does CCP think it's ok to hand out billions of isk to a select few and does so in secrecy. We're not talking about 2 years up ahead when almost everybody has that gifted ship making it by then far less worth then it was at the moment of hand out. We're talking about the here and now, not if when then.
As I understand it, the receipients themselves asked for the gift not to be publicised. Which is I think their right.
1 Kings 12:11
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Montmazar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
48
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Posted - 2013.10.07 08:48:00 -
[83] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Malcanis wrote:What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?
It boils down to: why does CCP think it's ok to hand out billions of isk to a select few and does so in secrecy. We're not talking about 2 years up ahead when almost everybody has that gifted ship making it by then far less worth then it was at the moment of hand out. We're talking about the here and now, not if when then. As I understand it, the receipients themselves asked for the gift not to be publicised. Which is I think their right.
CCP has a right to give away tech 2 BPOs too, and the recipients have a right to request silence there as well. Yes, that's true. It's also meaningless. CCP has a right to do whatever they want to their game. But is it fair? Does it enable favoritism? Does it make the game better, or worse? Making sure CCP gets the right answers to those questions is supposed to be your job, not looking down at the UN Charter and Magna Carta, taking off your reading glasses and sagely letting us know that yes, in fact, a private company can do whatever it wants with its own product within the guidelines of the law. We knew that already and we don't care. Rights are not the issue here. This is not a judicial matter. It is a matter of fairness in a spaceship game. Yes, the stakes are low, and absurd, but those stakes are the entire reason for your fake spaceship political job here, and you are failing at that job. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11997
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 08:49:00 -
[84] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Why is it for the last few years every time CCP screws up, all you ever see is the CSM saying they disapprove of CCPs actions followed by the CSM actively defending CCP?
Because of your gigantic confirmation bias, which only allows you to see the evidence that suits your preconceptions.
Like for instance they way you've dishonestly ignored the CSM's communication about CCP's proposal to give Somer actual unique ships.
1 Kings 12:11
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
11997
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 08:52:00 -
[85] - Quote
Montmazar wrote:Malcanis wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Malcanis wrote:What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?
It boils down to: why does CCP think it's ok to hand out billions of isk to a select few and does so in secrecy. We're not talking about 2 years up ahead when almost everybody has that gifted ship making it by then far less worth then it was at the moment of hand out. We're talking about the here and now, not if when then. As I understand it, the receipients themselves asked for the gift not to be publicised. Which is I think their right. CCP has a right to give away tech 2 BPOs too, and the recipients have a right to request silence there as well. Yes, that's true. It's also meaningless. CCP has a right to do whatever they want to their game. But is it fair? Does it enable favoritism? Does it make the game better, or worse? Making sure CCP gets the right answers to those questions is supposed to be your job, not looking down at the UN Charter and Magna Carta, taking off your reading glasses and sagely letting us know that yes, in fact, a private company can do whatever it wants with its own product within the guidelines of the law.
Which T2 BPOs were created and purposed as community awards with no intrinsic value of their own?
1 Kings 12:11
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
5988
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 08:55:00 -
[86] - Quote
Malcanis:
Suppose CCP gave every director of Goonswarm Federation about 10 PLEX each for their contributions to the sandbox. This comes out to, very roughly, 300 billion ISK worth of PLEX being given directly to the command staff of the largest alliance in the game. Since PLEX doesn't refine to anything, has no intrinsic value aside from what players assign to it, and since our leadership is already ridiculously wealthy, you should have no problem with this, right? After all CCP has a right to reward its content creators. -áFavoritism is good - CCP 2013 |
Montmazar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
48
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 08:55:00 -
[87] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Montmazar wrote:Malcanis wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Malcanis wrote:What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?
It boils down to: why does CCP think it's ok to hand out billions of isk to a select few and does so in secrecy. We're not talking about 2 years up ahead when almost everybody has that gifted ship making it by then far less worth then it was at the moment of hand out. We're talking about the here and now, not if when then. As I understand it, the receipients themselves asked for the gift not to be publicised. Which is I think their right. CCP has a right to give away tech 2 BPOs too, and the recipients have a right to request silence there as well. Yes, that's true. It's also meaningless. CCP has a right to do whatever they want to their game. But is it fair? Does it enable favoritism? Does it make the game better, or worse? Making sure CCP gets the right answers to those questions is supposed to be your job, not looking down at the UN Charter and Magna Carta, taking off your reading glasses and sagely letting us know that yes, in fact, a private company can do whatever it wants with its own product within the guidelines of the law. Which T2 BPOs were created and purposed as community awards with no intrinsic value of their own?
A T2 BPOs value is in making space money. Similarly, so too is the value of rare and unique spaceships.
Money can be exchanged for goods and services.
Next you tell me that it's cool, Somer is already really rich, ignore that BoB was also rich, and also completely ignore the favoritism issue and the issue of why a gambling ring deserves any rewards at all.
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Deka Ekato
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 08:57:00 -
[88] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Pak Narhoo wrote:Malcanis wrote:What all this grrr boils down to is: Does CCP have a legitimate right to hand out in-game rewards for out of game actions?
It boils down to: why does CCP think it's ok to hand out billions of isk to a select few and does so in secrecy. We're not talking about 2 years up ahead when almost everybody has that gifted ship making it by then far less worth then it was at the moment of hand out. We're talking about the here and now, not if when then. As I understand it, the receipients themselves asked for the gift not to be publicised. Which is I think their right.
Malcanis,
It doesn't matter who asked for secrecy, CCP or Somer. CCP favoured Somer with gifts and it was done in an underhanded manner.
[quote] Malcanis : From Post 69 As for "out of touch", if 499,999 EVE players want CCP told that 1+1=3 and I know that 1+1=2, I'm going to tell CCP that the answer is '2'. I don't care tuppence for popularity, either with CCP or with the playerbase.
You might not care for popularity, either with CCP or with the playerbase, but it sure seems like you are trying to stay on good terms with CCP by what can be only described as defending the actions that CCP has done, and how they were done, with Somer. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
5990
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 08:58:00 -
[89] - Quote
Or hell, replace PLEX with some random NEX store item with an equivalent ISK value. -áFavoritism is good - CCP 2013 |
Khador Vess
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
82
|
Posted - 2013.10.07 09:04:00 -
[90] - Quote
Alduin666 Shikkoken wrote:A CSM member is supposed to represent his voters and not act on his own opinions.
I support this thread.
How are the CSM supposed to know who voted for them and so who they should be representing?
YOU may or may not have voted for the dude, he doesnt know, and if you did and he doesnt share your ideals thats YOUR fault for not picking a CSM who represents your ideals. In any case he can still represent your concerns to CCP, though he does not share your sentiments he can still represent you.
NOT supported. The guy is a straight up dude. I used to have a forum sig, but CCP SocksFour stole it.... |
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