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Denrace
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Posted - 2006.01.24 11:06:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Denrace on 24/01/2006 11:07:46 Edited by: Denrace on 24/01/2006 11:07:20 Edited by: Denrace on 24/01/2006 11:06:31 Lets look at the bonuses this ship gets:
5% Shield Resistances - This is a great bonus, in line with all the other FCS (field command ship) bonuses.
10% Target Navigation Prediction - This bonus is completely useless. A heavy missile will do normal damage to anything moving under 1KM/sec anyway. If it is moving faster, it will be using a MWD, so it will have the sig the size of a small moon, ergo, this bonus is not even needed at all.
5% Heavy Missile Damage - Finally, an adequate missile dmg bonus for Caldari! Yay for this bonus!
5% Heavy Missile precision - Extremely useful. Allows the use of T2 Fury missiles that do max dmg to frigs. This is my favourite bonus here.
Now, looking back, there are three great bonuses and one that is useless. One of the biggest factors in heavy missile dmg is their rather crap Rate of Fire, but most missile boats get round this with a ROF bonus.
Every other FCS has the potential to do much more damage than their equivalent HAC counterparts but without the MUCH NEEDED Rate of Fire bonus on the Nighthawk, it will barely do more dmg than a Cerberus.
On a side note, the Nighthawk has no more shield than the Ferox but has more armour. How come? This really is not in line with other FCS compared to their T1 counterparts. More armour on a Caldari ship? Roleplayers will scream for this one.
Tuxford my good man, dont you think the Nighthawk needs a quick looking at?
If not, your opinion would be greatly valued here anyway.
PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC!
Thanks, Den ________________________________________
I make Custom Sigs. EVEMail |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2006.01.24 11:23:00 -
[2]
Quote: 10% Target Navigation Prediction - This bonus is completely useless. A heavy missile will do normal damage to anything moving under 1KM/sec anyway. If it is moving faster, it will be using a MWD, so it will have the sig the size of a small moon, ergo, this bonus is not even needed at all.
That's not how missile damage calculation formula works. So you are wrong in assuming this bonus is useless.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Nafri
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Posted - 2006.01.24 11:26:00 -
[3]
the pitiful shield is really strange, but the boni are great, for killing frigs
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2006.01.24 11:32:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Nafri the pitiful shield is really strange, but the boni are great, for killing frigs
True, seems all the recent tech II missiles (precision) and bonuses are designed towards that effect... guess CCP couldn't find something to nerf so they are making missiles overpowered vs small sizes again to give em reason to nerf em back... or whatever.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2006.01.24 11:36:00 -
[5]
I ran a test a while back with my Cerberus...
I have: --Cruiser skill 5 --HAC skill 5 --Light Missiles 5 --All other relavent skills at 4
Using light missiles (no web, no painter), a skilled interceptor pilot was able to reduce the damage I could do to him. He was not able to reduce it all (almost killed him by accident), but he was able to reduce it a lot.
5 more levels of Target Navigation skill will be welcome when shooting Heavies at interceptors.
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TerrorWOLF
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Posted - 2006.01.24 12:59:00 -
[6]
Atleast all its bonuses work not like anothe T2 BC i know
May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
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Azuriel Talloth
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Posted - 2006.01.24 13:13:00 -
[7]
If the target outruns your missiles, as an Inty would, the increased sig radius from their MWD won't help the damage of your missiles much at all. The bonus is extremely useful.
-RMR after a month- |
Nafri
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Posted - 2006.01.24 13:44:00 -
[8]
together with precision missles you can probably instakill ceptors again.
but tbh, who wants a 300mio isk ceptor killer? nice for fleets to have, but then again, you will die soo fast if enemy targets you
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Denrace
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Posted - 2006.01.24 13:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Azuriel Talloth If the target outruns your missiles, as an Inty would, the increased sig radius from their MWD won't help the damage of your missiles much at all. The bonus is extremely useful.
If an inty outruns your missiles, then your missiles wouldnt even catch the inty to do any damage anyway. ________________________________________
I make Custom Sigs. EVEMail |
Valea Silpha
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Posted - 2006.01.24 13:51:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Valea Silpha on 24/01/2006 13:51:21 But IIRC heavies/lights/cruise do 7km/s without skills so it would take a quite extreme set-up to entirely avoid them. And then thats only if their vector directly away from the ship is greater than 7km/s which is very unlikely in a combat situation
EDIT: Nafri beat me to it. Tho i think some crazy faction MWD with implants and skills and overdrives could hit over 8km/s
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.01.24 13:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Denrace
Originally by: Azuriel Talloth If the target outruns your missiles, as an Inty would, the increased sig radius from their MWD won't help the damage of your missiles much at all. The bonus is extremely useful.
If an inty outruns your missiles, then your missiles wouldnt even catch the inty to do any damage anyway.
nothing can outrun a heavy missle, its about explosion velocity
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.01.24 13:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Valea Silpha Edited by: Valea Silpha on 24/01/2006 13:51:21 But IIRC heavies/lights/cruise do 7km/s without skills so it would take a quite extreme set-up to entirely avoid them. And then thats only if their vector directly away from the ship is greater than 7km/s which is very unlikely in a combat situation
EDIT: Nafri beat me to it. Tho i think some crazy faction MWD with implants and skills and overdrives could hit over 8km/s
5 km/s is really extreame for a ceptor. Most go around 4km/s. Those heavy missle the nighthhawk will spamm have a explosion velocity of 2250 m/s with precision missles, explosion radius is 28.125m
tbh, you will pwn everything thats smaller then you. You could even use the rage missles pretty well with that ship
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2006.01.24 13:56:00 -
[13]
I was always confused by it being the combat version of the battlecruisers, yet being weaker in terms of combat than the command version.
23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC |
Antic
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Posted - 2006.01.24 13:59:00 -
[14]
these ships are teribly expensive in both training time and ISK. So i doubt we will see many of them being tossed into PVP anytime soon. And if we do it will probably be primary pretty quick as its a larger economic damage to the enemy than popping hacs.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.01.24 14:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Antic these ships are teribly expensive in both training time and ISK. So i doubt we will see many of them being tossed into PVP anytime soon. And if we do it will probably be primary pretty quick as its a larger economic damage to the enemy than popping hacs.
I saw that some BoB corp already uses a rapier, which is a fine ship
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Denrace
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Posted - 2006.01.24 14:37:00 -
[16]
Well someone explain to me how the Target Navigation bonus works on this ship, and how it is factored into the dmg formula.
Keep it simple, I am terrible at maths ________________________________________
I make Custom Sigs. EVEMail |
Nafri
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Posted - 2006.01.24 14:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Denrace Well someone explain to me how the Target Navigation bonus works on this ship, and how it is factored into the dmg formula.
Keep it simple, I am terrible at maths
its just complicated, but damages bases on sig and speed of target, target navigation reduced the problems with the speed
basicly, about 50% more damage against small targets, well more or less
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zoturi
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Posted - 2006.01.24 14:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Antic these ships are teribly expensive in both training time and ISK. So i doubt we will see many of them being tossed into PVP anytime soon. And if we do it will probably be primary pretty quick as its a larger economic damage to the enemy than popping hacs.
I saw that some BoB corp already uses a rapier, which is a fine ship
fine yes but its not BC
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The Major
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Posted - 2006.01.24 14:56:00 -
[19]
Nighthawk Vs Claw Interceptor NO MWD Nighthawk Vs Claw Interceptor WITH MWD
Resistances have been flattened and skills maxed for these graphs. Anything using a MWD or with a base sig over 80m is going to take full damage from a Nighthawk unless it can maintain a linear velocity above ~1600m/s which means the bonus is useful Vs Frigates and Vagabonds who can't half shift when they need to.
The spreadsheet thread
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.01.24 18:23:00 -
[20]
Originally by: The Major Nighthawk Vs Claw Interceptor NO MWD Nighthawk Vs Claw Interceptor WITH MWD
Resistances have been flattened and skills maxed for these graphs. Anything using a MWD or with a base sig over 80m is going to take full damage from a Nighthawk unless it can maintain a linear velocity above ~1600m/s which means the bonus is useful Vs Frigates and Vagabonds who can't half shift when they need to.
The spreadsheet thread
Nighthawk has only bonus to heavy missles, so no assault launchers
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Capt 69
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Posted - 2006.01.24 18:32:00 -
[21]
correct me if i'm worng, but wont this bonus be most useful to use with the fury missles? Wouldn't it negate the negativity of using such missles against smaller and faster moving targets? Inappropriate signature content. --Jorauk |
Asurix
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Posted - 2006.01.24 18:33:00 -
[22]
imo nighthawk is bugged. All t2 BC's have same shield/armor/hull, yet nighthawk has like 1500 less shield then the Vulture, which is rediculous
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2006.01.24 19:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Asurix imo nighthawk is bugged. All t2 BC's have same shield/armor/hull, yet nighthawk has like 1500 less shield then the Vulture, which is rediculous
Agreed. In the beginning the vulture got its extra slot even. It needs more shields and i wouldn't mind losing the target nav for a rof bonus. All the othe hac bc have two dps bonuses. We don't need a 300 mil frig killer, i'd rather just load precision missiles.
Official Nos Troll |
The Major
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Posted - 2006.01.24 19:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: The Major Nighthawk Vs Claw Interceptor NO MWD Nighthawk Vs Claw Interceptor WITH MWD
Resistances have been flattened and skills maxed for these graphs. Anything using a MWD or with a base sig over 80m is going to take full damage from a Nighthawk unless it can maintain a linear velocity above ~1600m/s which means the bonus is useful Vs Frigates and Vagabonds who can't half shift when they need to.
The spreadsheet thread
Nighthawk has only bonus to heavy missles, so no assault launchers
The Nighthawk bonuses in the spreadsheet only apply to Heavy Missiles. The Assault Missiles are there just for comparison purposes. They receive no bonuses from the ship.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2006.01.24 21:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: The Major
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: The Major Nighthawk Vs Claw Interceptor NO MWD Nighthawk Vs Claw Interceptor WITH MWD
Resistances have been flattened and skills maxed for these graphs. Anything using a MWD or with a base sig over 80m is going to take full damage from a Nighthawk unless it can maintain a linear velocity above ~1600m/s which means the bonus is useful Vs Frigates and Vagabonds who can't half shift when they need to.
The spreadsheet thread
Nighthawk has only bonus to heavy missles, so no assault launchers
The Nighthawk bonuses in the spreadsheet only apply to Heavy Missiles. The Assault Missiles are there just for comparison purposes. They receive no bonuses from the ship.
Those graphs are without skills right?
Official Nos Troll |
The Major
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Posted - 2006.01.24 22:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Necrologic Those graphs are without skills right?
The graphs are with maximum skills (unlikely yes but fairest comparison in my experience) so that is "as good as it gets". If you want to try it with different skills, against a different ship or with no skills at all I reccommend you download the spreadsheet and play around with it yourself.
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Gothic Light
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Posted - 2006.01.25 08:25:00 -
[27]
Not sure how many have a nighthawk, but another 'bug' shows on the ship fittings screen.
Bearing in mind that there is a bonus to "Heavy Missiles Damage", only scourge missiles appear to have added damage.
When i checked the stats on each of the missile types in my launchers (i can't remember exact figures now - but was included in my bug report), it showed EM, Thermal and EXP damage heavy missiles having base damage of 195hp, yet scourge missiles were listed at approx 228hp.
Can anyone else confirm they have seen this or is it just me.
/me starts building more scourge missiles
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