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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
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GM Arkanon
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Posted - 2006.01.25 13:55:00 -
[1]
This is my blog dedicated to the criminal element among us. It's pretty self explanatory, post your comments here, if any.
GM Arkanon
Senior Game Master
EVE CSS |
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.01.25 13:57:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Winterblink on 25/01/2006 13:57:36
Fixed your link.
n00b
Warp Drive Active | Nature Vraie |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.01.25 13:58:00 -
[3]
You write good blogs, now for making good posts. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
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GM Arkanon
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:00:00 -
[4]
Yeah, thanks, I guess. Fortunately, the ban button is simple and round and red and nice... But I digress. Back to the topic at hand, thanks again Winterblink GM Arkanon
Senior Game Master
EVE CSS |
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Roga Midrennie
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:02:00 -
[5]
How many accounts have been punished in the last month for this?
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:03:00 -
[6]
Rofl, are you sure posting that was wise Arkonon ? This sets you up for a biiiig fall you know.
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:04:00 -
[7]
Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 25/01/2006 14:04:52 No offence, and this is all very well and good, but your point is?
I assume CCP has enough ISK (the real stuff) laying about to create some dummy eBay accounts, win a few auctions, and perma-ban those responsible.
Incidentally, anyone selling something that is free anyways, deserves a ban.
23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:05:00 -
[8]
The only thing I'd like to know is, beyond the tools you have allready, can you look forward to an expansion of the abilities you need to decide who is an isk salesman/buyer, or are you stuck with the tools you have now?
It seems pretty easy to circumvent account bannings by using alternate pay methods :\
[Now with MIND BULLETS!]
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: GM Arkanon Yeah, thanks, I guess. Fortunately, the ban button is simple and round and red and nice... But I digress. Back to the topic at hand, thanks again Winterblink
I try. :)
I guess the only thing I have to say on the topic is that I'm glad the GMs are standing up on a soapbox and announcing to the world that cheating is a bad thing. The only issue I have is that it's an obvious point to make, one which even the cheaters are fully understanding. They know it's wrong. Trick is, what to do about it.
I fully appreciate the one strike and you're out approach the GMs are taking here, but the lingering question in my mind is how are you going to tell who's involved in an isk trading transaction? Are you guys monitoring eBay auctions daily? Other sites that buy/sell ingame items such as isk?
Saying there's repercussions is one thing, but monitoring and enforcement is another.
And as a sidenote, I'd love to hear stats on how many accounts are turfed because of this. The rest of the MMO community does too, there is nothing but applause when companies do large-scale bannings for players who have violated various aspects of their EULA pertaining to cheating. Just a thought.
Warp Drive Active | Nature Vraie |
Kunming
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:18:00 -
[10]
Burn em all down.. EVE will prevail
Seriously though good thing the GMs are taking action against this. Also if you're not gonna ban GTC selling at least put a limit on how many they can buy, after all someone buying 10 90-days GTCs is certainly not stocking up for 900 days!
Oh and if u're dealing in ISK trading you'll be shot down many times by us before we report you to the GMs
Website Killboard |
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GM Arkanon
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:19:00 -
[11]
I don't have any numbers handy, but on average, I'd say I ban at least one account a day for ISK/Ebay sales, sometimes up to ten, sometimes even more. And that's just me. We regularily get tips about current Ebay auctions and if verified, we ban the accounts involved.
It's not very hard to verify who is an ISK seller and who is not, actually. A normal player's log is vastly different from someone who's only using his account for illegal activity. And even the most careful criminal will slip up sooner or later. And when they do, we'll be there to help them out the door.
GM Arkanon
Senior Game Master
EVE CSS |
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The Enslaver
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:23:00 -
[12]
You guys are doing excellent work, keep hitting TBRBB (the big red ban button \o/).
Great to know you are on the case. -------- Shinra Director
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Albus
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:29:00 -
[13]
I suggest a permanent sticky for this one.
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GM Grimmi
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:29:00 -
[14]
Just this morning, I have permanently banned about 50 accounts for selling ISK and I have removed billions of ill gotten ISK from buyers. Those who buy ISK are directly encouraging all kinds of illegal activity such as macroing, hacking and more so this, as GM Arkanon stated, WILL NOT BE TOLERATED and the buyers will face dire consequences as well as the sellers.
GM Grimmi
Senior Game Master
EVE CSS |
DazWozUK
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:31:00 -
[15]
Its about time CCP clamped down on the isk trading ebay is riddled with it.
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Forsaken Tome
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:33:00 -
[16]
i got one question, what about this new crime the hackiung into other accounts, what will happen if the people accounts been hacked. will they have the ban as well as it could lead to the "sale person" as u put it, i just want to know what happen if that happens |
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GM Arkanon
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:39:00 -
[17]
We can usually easily discern between hacked accounts and ISK sellers' accounts. In a worst case scenario, the accounts will be temporarily banned until we have verified who is in control of the account. Lost playing time for the user will be refunded, of course, if he's proved innocent.
Oh, and I like your sense of style, Forsaken Tome
GM Arkanon
Senior Game Master
EVE CSS |
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:41:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Albus I suggest a permanent sticky for this one.
Agreed.
However, all is well and good, but if you are indeed diligently bannning people left and right as you state, and have been for a while now...
Why the hell is Eve still full of isk farming ops ? (including and excluding macros)
Or, is that simply an effect of the way you use to trace these people ? Do you get the chars the use to sell the isk but not the ones they use to make the isk ? Do you ban the buyer but not the end user ?
There's more to placating the playerbase when it comes to this issue then stating that you get banned when you buy or sell isk. That is nothing new, and if people tell you it is news to them then they are playing you.
And another nice thing !
I guess we can take this as CCP official stance on wether or not RMT in any form is acceptable can't we ? (the answer being negative of course, seeing how vividly Arkonor described those who use isk they bought).
Quote:
We do not intend to allow people to ruin the gaming experience for other players through this most lazy and underhanded way of achieving your goals in EVE
What about people that get to play longer then others ? Is that not the same thing as people that spend more money on the game then others ? Time is money is it not ?
Or what about players that use character transfers to set themselves up in such a way that they can solo-farm imbalanced amounts of isk in a way that you cannot assure me was intended to happen ?
Or, another good one. What about timecard sales ? Are those banned again ?
Don't you think you need to relativate your blog a little Arkonor ?
Shouldn't it say that you detest the professionals that make dollah of off the game CCP made ? Dollah that shouldn't be made, or only by CCP if at all ? That you strongly disagree with people that buy isk from those RMT pro's ?
Or do we have conflicting views and actions here ...
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:49:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Trak Cranker on 25/01/2006 14:52:03 But anyone selling a char for isk, is not doing the exact same thing? Obtaining ISK for the money and time spend on the activity of training a char.
As long as skill points are not earned, but given over time, the aquisition of skill points is not an in game activity, but purely a substitute for real money, and to some extent time.
Albeit the investment is a but more foresighted(and far from always premeditated I would think) than running a macromining op, the difference is really only in the aspect of turnaround.
A clear line can be drawn from a chars time, not actions, in the game(=money paid) to its skill point level to the value in isk.
Whether you start and account and train it up or go to work and make money, the difference really is less than its made out to be. You give up a good thats not earned by ingame actions(an ingame action being something that affects the game world), for something that can be used in game.
I'm all for banning and fighting isk sellers - but the use of language in that post is slightly hypocritical, given the CCP allowed trades.
Imho. Please resize your signature so that it is within the forum rule size limits - Jacques |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2006.01.25 14:58:00 -
[20]
@Rod... RMT?
23? # Missile Tool # ex: P-TMC : USAC |
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Forsaken Tome
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:00:00 -
[21]
what is the ratios to the account ban: to trial/new accounts per day just a rough idea cos i know it be hard to pin point it |
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GM Arkanon
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:04:00 -
[22]
First of all, Rod, the name is Arkanon.
To answer some of your questions, EVE is still full of ISK farmers, because it's a very popular game, which therefore attracts a large number of people seeking to make a profit off it. We'll ban them, but they'll keep coming back, as long as they stand to make a profit. Because profiting is all they care about.
Another reason may be that we can not spare the manpower to actively hunt down macroers as much as we'd like to. Our first responsibility is answering petitions and email incidents and making sure all is well on Tranquility, not to mention bringing important issues to the attention of CCP, working in tandem with our ISD volunteer force. As you say, time is money and we do not have an endless amount of either, unfortunately.
Your point that players who play longer than others are in some way compareable to players who are outright cheating is a bit hard to understand for me. Of course people are free to play as much as they want, what on earth do you mean? These things are in no way comparable as far as I can see, or have you happened upon a EULA article that forbids players from spending time ingame?
Character transfers were allowed in response to player demand. It was not my decision and as long as they are made with ISK, I have no problem with them, nor do I accept that they necessarily constitute an unfair advantage, as the ISK needed to buy a character is not easy to come by for most players. Most importantly, it's allowed and not the issue here. The same goes with timecard sales. My post is about a specific issue and I see no need to argue with you about other matters. If you do not agree with my points, that's fine. Just don't derail this thread with vague allegations about unrelated issues, please.
GM Arkanon
Senior Game Master
EVE CSS |
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:15:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 25/01/2006 15:15:55 Just a modest request, Mr. GM Arkanon - could you please look at my wallet and tell me wether i am an ISK seller or not?
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:15:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 25/01/2006 15:14:58
Originally by: GM Arkanon First of all, Rod, the name is Arkanon.
Ah yes, of course, my apologies. It's probably the mining that got to me. I did not intend any offence by misspelling your name.
Quote:
My post is about a specific issue and I see no need to argue with you about other matters. If you do not agree with my points, that's fine. Just don't derail this thread with vague allegations about unrelated issues, please.
Fair enough. I assume I'm free to discuss those matters in another thread then. Oh, and they are not allegations, just questions about how this blog should be placed within encompassing CCP policy.
And it was far from an attempt to derail the thread.
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: FireFoxx80 @Rod... RMT?
RMT, or Real Money Trade, is a term used sometimes in discussions about MMO virtual economies and the trading of virtual goods/cash for real life cash.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:27:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 25/01/2006 15:27:52
Welcome to the virtual war on drugs.
Some people will allways engage in RMT. The measures chosen to "***** down" on them will lead to a lot of people being punished, not all of whome will have any idea what is going on, let alone engaging in RMT.
There is no way, for example, to tell if someone who has just given you ISK has aquired it legitmiately or not. You can wake up and find you are deeply negative in ISK.
Someone who is an ISK seller with a throwaway account who's about to go to sleep, fully expects to be banned over night and has 100 mil left...so he goes and gives a million to 100 newbs. Next thing the newbs know, they are in debt and warned for buying from Ebay. This HAS HAPPENED in other games.
Thus, players need protection:
For starters, you need to remove the ability to give ISK to anyone in Eve remotely, without confirmation.
Adding a confirmation to the recieving of ISK from people at a distance is now absolutely required. Or simply remove the ability to give ISK at a distance and make it something which requires the use of the trade window.
The principle that user action is required to accept ISK and thus it MUST be a voluntary action to take ISK from a seller.
Oh, and "Don't take ISK from strangers, kids" needs adding to the tutorial. Period. Sucks for newer players, yes.
FireFoxx80, Ebay do NOT tollerate sting operations, they require all sales to be genuine. The way to remove infringing auctions is by the Verified Rights program.
And no, I don't buy ISK. I don't NEED to buy ISK, I am really quite rich thanks to CCP's little traderoute surprises and other players mistakes. If I needed a lot of ISK, I'd sell GTC's. (And I can't think why I'd need billions except if I was buying a second character).
(I'll leave out the social issues and why I think this RMT policy is counterproductive in the extreme)
--------------------------------------------------------------- Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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Waut
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:30:00 -
[27]
How about buying isk for love?
Plan for galaxy domination: Step 1. Steal lots of underpants Step 2. ... Step 3. Get declared as Eve Emperor |
Sharcy
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:30:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Arkonor
Originally by: GM Arkanon First of all, Rod, the name is Arkanon.
He's just saying you're a rock to us all
And you are, the work must seem pretty hopeless at times, but keep it up and eventually those ****heads will get the message. And thanks for the sharing
--
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:32:00 -
[29]
While it is of course inside the rules to sell characters for isk and as such cannot be said to be "cheating", you assigned values as "lazy" and "underhanded" and "ruining the game" to the act of selling isk on ebay. And we could very well agree on that. But when you assign moral values to it besides the rulebreaking - you have to have your back covered - or its hypocrisy.
And then I felt that I had to point out that CCP allowed actions, that as well could be assigned those values, as the basis and results was in theory the same. Even if reality was that one was a allowed, and another wasn't. (And even if one of them is probably way worse for the game than the other, granted.)
Excuse me, if I feel that it is well within the scope of the thread. Or are comments limited to: "<MPHolyGrail>YES! BAN THEM!</MPHolyGrail>" or "No, please don't!"?
Just to be sure:
<MPHolyGrail>YES! BAN THEM!</MPHolyGrail>
Please resize your signature so that it is within the forum rule size limits - Jacques |
Roga Midrennie
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Posted - 2006.01.25 15:42:00 -
[30]
Originally by: GM Grimmi Just this morning, I have permanently banned about 50 accounts for selling ISK and I have removed billions of ill gotten ISK from buyers....stuff....and the buyers will face dire consequences as well as the sellers.
Going to be some very unhappy people who spent real money and got nothing then.
Excellent, keep up the good work!
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