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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
992
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Posted - 2013.10.17 15:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
Remove cloaked ships from local. Problem solved. The Tears Must Flow |
Baaldor
In Igne Morim Easily Excited
124
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Posted - 2013.10.17 15:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Remove cloaked ships from local. Problem solved.
You have all my upvotes sir.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Pirate Nation.
124
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Posted - 2013.10.17 19:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
Baaldor wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Remove cloaked ships from local. Problem solved. You have all my upvotes sir.
Talking about upvotes you have applied two there, but I notice that when you post you often have a single up vote, I wonder how that is happening, are you really that insecure that you must upvote your own posts with your other account, I noticed it on almost every inane post you have made, you sir are most amusing... If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space,-áand those people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local,-álight a cyno and try jumping to it.-á-á There is a structural issue with Eve, based on accounts with no link, vast reserves of ISK-áand plex, which makes it too easy to metagame the destruction of small alliances. |
Friggz
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
164
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Posted - 2013.10.17 20:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Not sure why I take the time to explain this again and again everytime this pops up. I guess I need some good karma every now and then.
People have been complaining about this for years. It hasn't changed. It won't until a large overhaul of mechanics.
To explain why we need to look at two things: Risk and reward.
Firstly, Risk.
You have a magical box called "Local" that tells you when to run and hide. It is 100% accurate, works instantly and is completely infallible. It costs you nothing to set up or maintain. All the work is done for you. All you have to do is press the dock button when it tells you to and pay some kind of minimal attention.
This creates complete safety for you. In other words, it removes risk.
Because of this, if someone wants to kill you, they have to go to great lengths. They have to dedicate an account to it and leave their computer on 24/7. No one wants to do this. They do this only because thanks to local it is the only effective way of killing you. Local is so strong that in order to counter it you need to dedicate an account and a computer 24/7 to do so. Let that sink in a minute.
What would happen if we removed afk cloaking? Even if you had a solution that didn't screw over normal cloaky fleets (and very few suggestions people make wouldn't) the main issue is you'd never die.
This is a problem because of the second thing we need to talk about, which is reward.
So, if you hate being killed and AFK cloakies are such a plague, why aren't you in high sec? The answer to that is you make more isk in null-sec. Why? Why do bounties pay more? Why are plexes more lucrative? Why do planets have more resources, why is all the best moon-goo there? Because it's riskier. You accept a greater level of risk in exchange for a greater level of reward.
The problem is, you want it both ways. You want the increased level of reward that comes with null-sec, but as soon as you are asked to assume the risk with it, you refuse. You demand CCP alter the game mechanics to ensure you never have to take a risk. To make sure your magical safety box continues to operate with 100% efficency.
Sorry but:
YOU DON'T GET TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS
You either accept the increases risk in Null-sec, and with it the increased rewards, or you get out null-sec and surrender those rewards for increased safety. Those are your options. It's your sandbox, you pick. The Evolution of the Stealth Bomber, and the story of the first Black Ops Capital Kill in EvE.
https://truestories.eveonline.com/ideas/969 |
Black Canary Jnr
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
11
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Posted - 2013.10.18 00:46:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cloakies are fine atm, they get alot of kills everyday from moronic people who don't watch local or travel in shiny ships. Therefore they are balanced for me. Wouldn't mind a 'decloaking dessie' but i don't see how they can be balanced so they aren't just certain death on gate camps.
I'm more worried about these inty warp speed changes because the time they allow for you to not notice them is not very big at all.
Also screw everyone who rats in bubbled systems, i hope you lose your shiny stuff to inties. |
Baaldor
In Igne Morim Easily Excited
124
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Posted - 2013.10.18 02:06:00 -
[36] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Baaldor wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Remove cloaked ships from local. Problem solved. You have all my upvotes sir. Talking about upvotes you have applied two there, but I notice that when you post you often have a single up vote, I wonder how that is happening, are you really that insecure that you must upvote your own posts with your other account, I noticed it on almost every inane post you have made, you sir are most amusing...
Burning my spy alts upvoting forum **** erry day.
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Sean Apollo
Rokh You like a Hurricane Nomads.
10
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Posted - 2013.10.18 04:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
I Must admit that this has crossed my mind. But really its part of the game. We play in a giant sandbox. What do you really expect? People are free to do anything they want anywhere. You either quit the game or you learn to play it. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4862
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Posted - 2013.10.19 03:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sean Apollo wrote:I Must admit that this has crossed my mind. But really its part of the game. We play in a giant sandbox. What do you really expect? People are free to do anything they want anywhere. You either quit the game or you learn to play it. in the metagame you can change the way things work in game
or get special scorpions whatever There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Signal11th
DARKNESS.
1124
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Posted - 2013.10.21 10:14:00 -
[39] - Quote
I get them from time to time, easy enough to do stuff without losing anything so I don't really see the problem. Powered by-áreaTh-áFilter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of-áany-ácorp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a-ásh*t anyway. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |
Kristoff Merkas
Industrial Mining Exploration
0
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Posted - 2013.10.27 18:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
As a new player who joined EVE, Just recently actually. I can assure you that a large number of the people who Play EVE, do not actually feel the way that the OP assumes they should. Yes, Cloaking Campers are an issue, I have been murdered by them a few times now. Though, Leaving EVE is a childish, and perhaps grave; mistake. Yes, cloaking I do feel is a bit OP, especially for the Covert Ops ships, and the entire invisibility from other ships, is a bit OP as well. In my opinion, as a "newb" to this game, and just recently got above 1 Million SP; there is a small issue here, but not one near the size that you claim.
I believe, instead of raging, and screaming over this issue, maybe some people should assemble a group, with warp disrupters, and a few HIC's and go kill the campers. Much like "Robin Hood" and his Merry Men. But, aside from that, I do feel that the CCP, (this should be suggested to a few CSM's since many people may feel this way) should create a device, equippable to Interdiction Cruisers, that can reveal cloaked ships, say within a few hundred Kilometers. Much like a Warp Disruption Bubble.
I have read a large portion of these posts, and if anything it has taught me something. EVE is a game where the Populous can make the changes. So, united, we will succeed and divided we shall fall. Leaving the game is doing just that, quitting. Dividing ourselves, we will fall. Leaving the game, you are giving credence to the success of these "cloaky campers". If they kill you, and you quit, they are successful. If you don't like them, make it a mistake to become one. Make every cloaky camper pay their dues to society, by dropping a fleet on them, and making them pay the ultimate price, and pod them.
Thanks, and that was the rant of a noob. But hey, To all of you Oldies out there, we really respect you, atleast some of us do. o7 Semi-Official Diplomat for the Industrial Mining Exploration Corporation. (Z-TR) Mission Runner/Small Time PvP |
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Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
469
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Posted - 2013.11.04 14:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Maybe people keep bringing it up because there is truth to what they are saying.
Cloaking mechanics heavily favor the aggressor when coupled with hot drop mechanics (which ruined the game a long time ago IMO)
Cloak's requiring the use of fuel, capacitor, or an ability to probe them down over time if they are sat at zero or some similar idea are actually decent suggestions
cloaks should be powerful, but i shouldn't be able to cloak forever in one spot and collect intel forever. |
wagashi
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2013.11.05 04:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
Really?
All mechanics favor the aggressor when you ratting, because your ratting(or mining). Now matter what you want to say this whole thread is about someone attacking 'you' while 'you' are not in 'your' PVP ship. All the nerf cloaking threads are begging CCP to remove the ability of cloaked ships to attack on their terms and force the combat to begin when the residents are ready to do so. However nerf crowd still wants the local to give them perfect intel so they can avoid the invader with their PVE ship. Thats not balance that happy horse crap.
Lets point to another thing here, Jump range. Most nullseccers live in regions that completely consumed by their own alliance or alliances that blue to them. There are good chunk of these that so distant from neighboring regions that is impossible for carrier let alone a titan or black ops bridge reach. So if they're 10 dudes rolling about in black ops ships in your region and no one reports it intel well then your coalition sucks. |
Baaldor
In Igne Morim Easily Excited
166
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Posted - 2013.11.05 19:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Chandaris wrote:Maybe people keep bringing it up because there is truth to what they are saying.
Not really, it is folk that generally afraid of the dark and and the unknown.
Chandaris wrote:Cloaking mechanics heavily favor the aggressor when coupled with hot drop mechanics (which ruined the game a long time ago IMO)
Yes that is your opinion and puking an opinion based on your own fears, is not only fantastic, but you have just gave EvE more credibility.
What game can you play that allows other players to screw with the person with in the game and mind **** them out of game.
Chandaris wrote:Cloak's requiring the use of fuel, capacitor, or an ability to probe them down over time if they are sat at zero or some similar idea are actually decent suggestions
Fine allow the cloaker fire when cloaked. Because as you know the person can not attack nor defend.
Chandaris wrote:cloaks should be powerful, but i shouldn't be able to cloak forever in one spot and collect intel forever.
Right, when you dock, you get no local. |
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
476
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Posted - 2013.11.05 20:04:00 -
[44] - Quote
Quote:Not really, it is folk that generally afraid of the dark and and the unknown.
It's not really the unknown is it. They're in local, they're not docked. It's fairly obvious what they are.
Quote:Yes that is your opinion and puking an opinion based on your own fears, is not only fantastic, but you have just gave EvE more credibility.
What game can you play that allows other players to screw with the person with in the game and mind **** them out of game.
TBH, Eve could use a little bit less of that. Yea yea, the harshness of lowsec, and being able to grief other players all day err day. I've always been of the firm belief that a lot of these mechanics (easy highsec ganking, afk cloaking, blob/hotdropping) cause the game to shed a lot more players than it ultimately gains. Toning down some of these mechanics would not necessarily 'undo eve'.
Quote:Fine allow the cloaker fire when cloaked. Because as you know the person can not attack nor defend.
This statement makes no gramatical sense.
Quote:Right, when you dock, you get no local.
Local should have been obliterated a long, long time ago and replaced with an actual useful d-scan mechanic. People popping through wormholes or covert cynoing in appearing in local makes no real sense, as local is supposed to be an indication of who jumped in/out via gates, reported to capsuleers from the omni-present traffic control. A change in local mechanics, and the elimination of it in some or all of sov space would drive a lot more compelling gameplay tbh, but, I'm getting pretty far off topic so I will shut up now.
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Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.11.08 06:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
The blops hotdrops favor the attacker because it allows a whole gang to drop on one person in the blink of an eye. Every enemy ship is a potential cloaked stargate in your system. You can even d-scan while cloaked, so you do not have to show you hand until it is too late for anyone else to do anything about it.
Anyway, I don't think there should be any activity in the game where you can walk away from the screen hours at a time and be completely safe, and at no cost. Even a POS consumes fuel, and that forcefield that goes up is not free. EvE had 'safespots' and then introduced probing, and then introduced cloaking. But cloaky ships were scouts and didn't pack much punch. Things have changed, and cloaks are now the new 'safespots' that people despised so much.
Just like ratter/miner has local and intel channels and what not, the cloaker/agressor has all manner of map stats to pick his targets. He can open the in game map or dotlan and see pirate deaths in the last hour, number of ships in space, number of jumps per hour...a real treasure trove of intel.
As for ratting in cheap ships and large groups, as a method of countering the cov ops cloak, its a horrible idea that has never actually been tried by anyone who suggests it. the cov ops gang will simply receive the new intel and adjust their numbers and loadouts in seconds. I have seen 8 bombers drop on a single procurer. And why not? Fuel is cheap, bridging back and forth is easy, no risk and you get to ruin someone else's gameplay, which is the real goal here.
PLEX prices are seasonal. This time last year they were around this price and they kept climbing into the xmas shopping season before they returned to normal. I think we should be able to argue against a game mechanic on its own merits/faults without talking about it "killing eve". As for Star Citizen, I grew up on WC games and would give anything Chris Roberts put out a try. |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
685
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 16:33:00 -
[46] - Quote
Hotdrops favor the aggressor. And this is why they're a good thing.
It's a partial balance to a system that allow to lock and farm whole null sec areas and make them safer than HS. This is not due to any players skill or effort but simply due to free intel from local, mechanics that prompt massive blue conglomerates, blobbing, the lame Dominion sovreignity system and other mechanics.
Everything is geared to favor annd make trivial the defence. Hotdrops is a mere antidote to a total stagnation. Far not enough, but better thann nothing.
CCP see this stagnation is bad for the general gameplay, and the fact they're adding more covert ops ships and soon overhauling black ops should give a clue about the trend. |
Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2013.11.09 11:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
I don't think any discussion can occur about intel from local without mentioning the map intel. A person looking for victims can pull up development indices, pirate kills per hour, number of pilots in space...etc and all manner of information so that he knows exactly where to go to find a victim. And the local channel benefits both the attacker and the resident. The attacker does not waste time looking around in a system when he is the only one in local.
So using the local intel as justification for why afk cloaking just doesn't hold water. |
Sausage Master
Central Sausage Freight
3
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Posted - 2013.11.09 12:13:00 -
[48] - Quote
Grace Ishukone wrote: The cloaky camper issue has become so bad .
I run deliveries into all sorts of places, low & nul etc. I have never encountered the cloaky camper issue before? Where is it happening? It may just be a problem in your local area?
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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
688
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Posted - 2013.11.09 17:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
Jacque Custeau wrote:And the local channel benefits both the attacker and the resident. The attacker does not waste time looking around in a system when he is the only one in local.
So using the local intel as justification for why afk cloaking just doesn't hold water.
Good. So would you simply removing local and this would be balanced? Both, attacker/ganker and ratter/miner benefit of it in the same way? So could be just removed and we had the same balance as now. Are you sure?
Fact is: currently is possible to lock and secure large part of null sec. Not even in HS such level of safety this is possible. And this is not due to some effort or active gameplay, patroling, scouting, intercepting and destorying enemies... is done simply due to passive and skilless mechanics based on avoiding any risk and any gameplay.
Parts of the game locked in such way are not healthy for the general EVE gameplay. This needs to be changed.
People developed and use tactics like AFK cloacking and hotdrops simply becuase is the only way to bring some risk and some action in these areas. Is still far not enough. Give them more option to be a threat ffor you and you'll see less hotdrops.
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Jacque Custeau
Knights of the Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2013.11.10 14:07:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Jacque Custeau wrote:And the local channel benefits both the attacker and the resident. The attacker does not waste time looking around in a system when he is the only one in local.
So using the local intel as justification for why afk cloaking just doesn't hold water. Good. So would you simply removing local and this would be balanced? Both, attacker/ganker and ratter/miner benefit of it in the same way? So could be just removed and we had the same balance as now. Are you sure?
Once again we are talking about afk cloaking, its related to hotdropping but not the same thing. And you cannot talk about local and map intel tools separately. If local channel is being used as justification for cloaking, especially afk cloaking, then remove it. But also remove the map tools. No longer will hot droppers see development indices, true sec, jumps per hour, pirates killed per hour, or any statistics regarding which would be a better place to find victims. They want to find someone, they jump in and scan. Then we can get rid of cloaking.
The afk cloaker crowd keep pointing to local, but ignore the huge amounts of intel ccp gives them in the map tool or through dotlan. Hot dropping will exist as long as there are cynos in the game, but no one should be able to cloak up and go afk and be completely safe. Safer than being in empire, safer than being in low sec. All the while pretending to be tough guys. |
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
897
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Posted - 2013.11.11 09:03:00 -
[51] - Quote
Grace Ishukone wrote:Title says it all.
The cloaky camper issue has become so bad that there are entire constellations where most people have simply walked away. And they don't go to another constellation of nullsec, or even highsec - they have gone to War Thunder, WoW, and the Star Citizen beta.
EVE Online is being strangled by campy cloakers shutting down systems, and making it impossible to play. Add to that if you do play, you get hotdropped and killed by 5 to 10 black ops battleships, or if you have Pandemic, 2 or 3 Nyx. That would be fine, except having ganked they warp off to safes, cloak, then wait cloaked until they can get a new gank, or jump out.
There is no fight, no epic battle, just a gank then nothing more until another player undocks, gets ganked, and says screw this I'm playing a game that I can *play* not one that consists of everyone afk camping for weeks.
Solutions.
(1) Make cloaking devices require Heavy Water as fuel, which depletes at 25 per minute. Use your cloak wisely, it will run out.
(2) Make it that only Stealth Bombers can recloak while an engagement timer is active. Yes, I mean the 15 minute one. If you jump in your Nyx to gank someone, then they can scan you down and actually fight. PvP might happen, rather than gank and go.
(3) this is actually the most commonly discussed in our null alliance: we all go to Star Citizen the day it launches on the basis that the Devs have painted themselves into a gameplay corner now, such that in effect the Rogue Sneak Attack from World of Warcraft summarizes the state of 'pvp' in EVE Online, and things are simply going to go downhill from here on out for EVE. Do I ant that? No, not really. I like EVE. But I think there is a massive problem with instant alpha damage and hotdrop insta kills.
And don't get me wrong, I own two Redeemers, and mercilessly butcher people too. I just think there is neither challenge nor skill required for a lot of this game now, and the changes (1) and (2) above would improve things a lot.
And if nothing changes ... well there is always Star Citizen. Or Darkfall Unholy Wars, that has better pvp than EVE now, or at least will after the next massive balance patch. So yes CCP, shape up or watch this game wither and die.
And CSM ... do your job. The current suggestions from CCP are going down the track of increased alpha, shorter fight times. All that means is fewer players, because everyone stays in their POS / stations and logs out when you see an enemy scout, because you know the hotdrop is right behind them. With hindsight, adding instant travel was a massive mistake. But the map is so bad in EVE that it was needed ... so EVE is currently in this horrible design mess. At least the cloaking issue can be fixed by the simple and game-consistent mechanic of requiring a cloak to use fuel. That one simple change would make covert pilots need to use their brains ... and if afk all day, would lead to their deaths.
Lol - people like you will get ganked and camped no matter in which game you flee... especially the ones thinking they will find a easier life in Star citizen...(maybe in the solo-player version)
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Ossirrus
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2013.11.12 08:10:00 -
[52] - Quote
Grace Ishukone wrote:Title says it all.
I completely agree Local has been OP for FAR TOO LONG. We must end afk cloaking now! Take away local listings and afk cloakers will never bother us again!!!! Those pesky at keyboard cloakers might be bad though. |
Solstice Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
4484
|
Posted - 2013.11.12 17:34:00 -
[53] - Quote
Wow, OP is dense as ****. lol
I'm sorry, but so much faulty logic, based on faulty assumptions which are mistaken as facts and that bias... holy ****, dense as ****! |
Dunpeal Hunter
Zervas Aeronautics The Unthinkables
18
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Posted - 2013.11.18 15:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
I am pretty sure its been said or suggested already, but i am personaly like 90% sure that CCP will come with a module in the near future like the siphon unit, or the refit module that will make it possible to disrupt cloaking modules within a certain area.
They said themselves that the 4 modules coming out tomorrow will only be the beginning, and that they have plans to add more. |
Lenroc Elisav
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.11.19 13:40:00 -
[55] - Quote
I guess CCP point of view on the matter is made pretty obvious by the design choice of allowing covop cynos through the new Mobile Cynosural Inhibitor field. I don't know why null sec systems still have local. Make DScan pick something like "Unidentified energy source/spike/surge" and auto-repeat at 10-15 seconds interval and get rid of local in null already. Deep null miners, that watch **** while getting rich solo ganking asteroids w/o no risk, are screwing the market for the rest of us :p. |
Agondray
Avalon Templaris
11
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Posted - 2013.12.13 16:33:00 -
[56] - Quote
Well I think ccp is tired of eve but that's just me, why else would you creat a module to do something than nerf it than make it obsolete by making a module that completely counter acts it. Tengu used to get 100kms with heavy missiles so the nerf them to not even worth using in missions. Way back when the hit a nerf on warp stabs than made the hic that is awesome but shouldn't stop something with 8 stab but does easily. They want the universe to be chaos, they advertise for new players with no real environment for them and give their support. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1455
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 03:56:00 -
[57] - Quote
AFK cloakers can't harm you because they are AFK. I don't see the problem. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
Ronny Hugo
Dark Fusion Industries Limitless Inc.
41
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Posted - 2014.01.21 09:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
At OP, The only reason you whine about cloakies is because its blatantly obvious that you're just a bug under a boot and all your skills are just irrelevant, while it is only somewhat obvious without cloak. If you want a PVP fight, attack income sources. Then they'll turn up in their thousands. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
880
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 11:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
If cloakers in your system are preventing you from doing whatever you wanted to do, its because what you wanted to do was wrong in the first place.
Null sec is a harsh place where doing stuff you can only do with an empty local, like ratting in a super carrier () should be the exception driven by an occasional player-opportunism, not the norm. Thus, afk cloaking is just putting back some form of balance into less-populated areas of null sec. Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters
783
|
Posted - 2014.01.23 20:21:00 -
[60] - Quote
Don't ruin cloaking for us wormholers because some vaginally inclined nullbears are scared of the cloaky boogeyman. No trolling please |
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